It doesn't matter if you approve of Republican witnesses

[iemanja]

Last edited Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:22 PM - Edit history (1)

It doesn't matter that you think they aren't good people. It doesn't matter if you agree with their references to religion. The witnesses aren't looking for Democrats' approval. It is utterly irrelevant to them or the intended audiences for the hearings. Democrats already know that Trump caused Jan 6. It's Republicans and independents who need to learn that. The hearings are effective precisely because the witnesses have largely been Republican. Democrats would have little credibility. The hearings are intended to persuade independents and Republicans, not for witnesses to pass Democrats' moral test of heroism. Rusty Bowers’ statement that he would vote for Trump again brings him greater credibility among Republican audiences, and it therefore makes the information he provided more persuasive. What we think of that statement doesn't matter. In short, they aren't about us. Some Democrats contempt for the witnesses is precisely why they are effective.

It boggles my mind how many people filter the hearings through what they agree with, as though their views are all that matter. They don't. What matters is that the hearings change minds, and they are carefully orchestrated for that purpose, not to make Democrats feel good.

[Wounded Bear]

1. Most criminal prosecutions have testimony from "unsavory" witnesses...

It's kind of how prosecutors put cases together, turning bad guys on each other for their stories.

This is no different, it just has a political sphere surrounding it.

[iemanja]

6. Exactly right.

[11 Bravo]

9. Do you mean to say that "Sammy the Bull" Gravano wasn't a good guy?

[Wounded Bear]

25. I would never say that...

:rolf:

BTW, that was in case you missed it.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

2. A trenchant analysis indeed (nt)

[unblock]

3. In organized crime cases, often most of the witnesses are criminals.

At least the key witnesses are. There may also be expert witnesses to analyze evidence, but to get testimony as to what people said, what the organizational structure was, who gave the order, etc., you often need the the testimony of criminals who turned.

In a case like this, where there's no autopsy for a coroner to report on, it's no surprise that all the witnesses are republicans.

[gratuitous]

4. I have a rather indelicate response

But I'll settle for saying that I do care about lionizing some of these Republican witnesses when they did the very least they could do to turn aside the former guy's election-stealing machine. They don't deserve their own chapter in the next edition of Profiles in Courage for their months of silence and steadfast support for the former guy should his political career somehow survive this.

[iemanja]

5. What makes you think they want you to lionize them?

Or that they care if they do? As others in this thread have pointed out, witnesses are often unsavory characters, but they matter because they prove elements of the crime. People you would lionize would make unpersuasive witnesses. It appears that you don't understand the purpose of the hearings.

[gratuitous]

7. Well, that point went whooshing over your head

[iemanja]

8. No, it did not

That kind of post is exactly why I wrote my thread. Your post wasn't exactly complicated. You don't approve of the witnesses because of their associated behavior. I submit that doesn't matter to the purpose of the hearings, which is to persuade independents and Republicans, not people who already know that Trump incited Jan 6.

These witnesses testified because they were subpoenaed, not for Democrats to "lionize" them. The committee called them for public testimony because they are persuasive witnesses that prove elements of Trump's crimes.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

17. Exactly!

And that Bowers supported TFG--and inextricably still seems too--only makes him a more compelling witness.

That will tend to persuade those Republicans and conservative-leaning independents who are still persuadable that Trump did indeed attempt to pressure Republican figures to take illegal actions to overturn an election.

The criminal behaviour in GA may be even more cut-and-dry, but Bowers was the most compelling witness I've seen thus far.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

10. I really appreciate that you are a consistent voice of reason here @iemanja.

[sop]

11. You're just setting up a strawman argument so you can knock it down.

[iemanja]

12. I've seen dozens of posts like the ones I referred to

It is far from a strawman.

[TexLaProgressive]

13. I think it is powerful that the major witnesses of tRump and company are

From his own camp.I don’t expect them to change their ways, but the fact that they are speaking out against the unspeakable and especially those yesterday who denied tRump on account of their conscious. That it appealed to their Christian faith is a great witness against their fellows who never seemed to have a twinge of conscious.

[ecstatic]

14. This is supposed to be a safe place to vent about fascists / trumpers.

And as you've already noted, our vitriol against some of the witnesses will actually help them. It proves their trumpian bonafides and bolsters the point that they are not Democratic witnesses. So I'm not sure what the problem is.

[onecaliberal]

15. It boggles the mind that some people think their opinions are the only ones that matter.

Even more curious that people want to shut down discussion ON A DISCUSSION BOARD.

[Beastly Boy]

16. The last paragraph.

[ms liberty]

18. So much this. K&R n/t

[chowder66]

19. Who is Randy Moss?

[iemanja]

20. Rusty Bowers

Brain fart. I have them more and more as I age.

[Sogo]

21. Rusty Bowers

Shaye Moss

[iemanja]

24. Yes. Thank you.

[chowder66]

22. Do you mean Rusty Bowers?

Shaye Moss was the election worker whose mom was Lady Ruby.

Unless I missed something.

[chowder66]

23. I hate when that happens. Thanks!