Serious question: Have Democrats been naive?

[Cattledog]

Thinking it can't happen here.

[Ocelot II]

1. Maybe, in the sense that we assumed those in power

would actually respect our system and the norms that kept it going.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Yes.

[hlthe2b]

3. As a member of the women's generation who fought for our rights, I can say YOUNG women

(most, majority) certainly were. I can not even begin to quantify the discussions I've had and overheard with young women who rolled their eyes and told us this day could never happen, would never happen.

Now, the baton has been passed, though I will still be out there. Will they pick it up?

[inthewind21]

19. Blaming only YOUNG women

is a cop out. The baton has been passed? Who was protecting Roe for the last FIFTY YEARS? You know, those 50 years where republicans were quite vocal about their quest to overturn it. Before all these YOUNG women could even vote? Or did you think your job was done and no safe keeping was required? The conversations you have had with the FEW in your small sphere is certainly not even close to a majority.

[hlthe2b]

21. Where did I say I was blaming ONLY young women? I did NOT and I WILL NOT allow YOU or anyone

to restate, reframe, and bastardize what I actually said. It is disingenuous and uncalled for. Take that elsewhere as I want nothing to do with those who cannot ask questions where they may be unclear but simply ascribe malign intent to comments not made, but rather strawman arguments you substitute instead.

And no, it is not just by anecdotal assumptions, having been a provider that has supported the efforts and Planned Parenthood in every way over the past 40+ years! Again, take that elsewhere. You know nothing, but assume all about me. This is an emotional day for all women. You ought to take your desire to fight off the board, rather than throwing accusations at the many other devoted pro-choice pro-democratic long-term members on this forum.

[The Magistrate]

4. Yes

[relayerbob]

5. Certainly all the Dems I know have been warning us and

Have been saying it for years, if not decades. Ask that question to those who don’t vote, or those who think the GQP is the same party as it once was.

[chowder66]

35. +1000

[33taw]

6. To a degree yes. We dropped the ball in 2016 and it will take 40 years to recover.

Many did not realize that the election was about the SCOTUS - many thought it was about Medicare for all.

[LakeArenal]

16. Republican have been stacking the lower courts for years

Years ago I remember an article that advised Democrats to put dollars into judicial races.

I guess it was ignored and finally Republicans stacked the SC.

[RockRaven]

7. Americans in general are fucking naive and oblivious, so I'm sure we've done our share too.

But in general movement Democrats have been shouting about the danger of white Christian nationalism/christofascism for the last two decades.

[dalton99a]

8. And complacent

Republicans have targeted the judiciary for acquisition for a long time

Now they are in firm control

[LakeArenal]

20. You beat me to it. See above. I agree 100%

[awesomerwb1]

9. Since before the 2000 election

[Irish_Dem]

10. Denial about the Putin/GOP takeover of the US.

Some of us have been warning about the takeover for some time.

I used to get quite a bit of pushback about it.

But not so much anymore. I think reality is finally sinking in.

Gun violence will continue and worsen.
Basic rights will be taken away.

Decades of Putin/GOP psy-ops programs have paid off for Putin.

The GOP wants what Putin has, total and permanent control and access to all state financial assets.
And they will install a male, white christian minority rule.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

11. Not at all.

[Boomerproud]

22. Care to elaborate?

nt

[Just A Box Of Rain]

25. I personally don't feel that I've been "naive" about what's been coming.

Nor do I feel that naiviate typifies the general condition of Democrats.

Trumpist-fascist populism has been a clear threat since 2016 and the antecedent threats go back much longer.

This is a very dark day in America. However, I'm not a bit surprised. The Republican plan has hardly been covert.

[betsuni]

28. +1

[In It to Win It]

13. I'd use "unaware" more then naive

Previously, when people voted for President, and even still to this day, they did not connect the Presidency to the Courts. Those two things were completely separate in their own spheres.

People didn't vote for Hillary because she's "no different than the Republicans" or she's "she's just as crooked" or whatever reasons. When they think "Hillary", they think big money corporate donors, not a person who would protect our climate goals or a person who would protect the SCOTUS precedents that we hold near and dear (because we have a broken Congress).

When people think of the ability to marry someone of the same-sex, they don't think of the Supreme Court. Many don't know they have the ability to marry someone of the same-sex because of the Supreme Court, which the President gets to nominate judges for.

These are connections that people in general, but more specifically, left leaning voters don't realize.

[Meadowoak]

14. Yes

[AZSkiffyGeek]

15. I was naive in assuming people on the "Left" actually cared about these issues

They made it clear they didn't when they voted for Jill Stein and Ralph Nader.

[betsuni]

29. +1

[Just A Box Of Rain]

33. +2

[electric_blue68]

38. +3

And I remember Ralphie saying something about these are just....

"gonad issues". Back in ?2000.

Could have been gay rights/marriage, and/or Choice

[Happy Hoosier]

17. Mostly the so-called "independents." Ya know, the both-siders. NT

[LuckyCharms]

18. I don't believe that the party is naive. What I think is that

in order to stop this shit, the Democratic party has to fight like dirty rotten sneaky immoral motherfuckers to defeat an enemy like this. We have to use their own weapons to beat them, and it is generally not in the nature of Democrats to do so.

Because the Democratic Party adheres to a certain set of morals, rules, and standards.

Republicans need to be viewed as a pack of rabid animals that are attacking.

I think of it as a street fight. If some guy is trying to kill you in a fight, you better be willing to kill him, no matter what it takes.

[Tree-Hugger]

23. Naive? No. Complacent? Sometimes

I think complacency is more of an issue for us than naivety.

And for America as a whole, regardless of party, I think a lack of awareness comes to play. There will be many people shocked by headlines today because they just don't pay attention.

[snowybirdie]

24. I believe

the better word is honorable. Unlike the others.

[iamateacher]

26. Yes

They have

[Stinky The Clown]

27. Not naive so much as following the rules against people who are ruthless in pursuit of their agenda

[Bmoboy]

30. active denial

is the only explanation I can come up with.

When in our history have the liberal and progressive values been the accepted wisdom?

How long have women been allowed to vote?

When did black people get to vote?

When were gay people not persecuted?

The list goes on.

We descend from slave owners, criminals, and thieves.

My aunt got into the DAR because one of her ancestors stole horses for the revolution.

White folks are scared and are armed to the teeth.

The challenges of the future - climate change, mass starvation, migration, etc. cannot be met or even addressed while we all fight each other.

I ramble, but my fears are so widespread, it's sometimes hard to breathe.

Being 71 gives me hope to die before it all crashes, but provides no relief when I think of my children.

Naive? Perhaps just self involved.

[Vogon_Glory]

31. There sure as hell were a lot of nafs on 2016.

That’s how Trump got elected and how so many Republican candidates got a free pass.

There were also a lot of naïfs who failed to turn out this last time. They either voted for the popping-fresh Repiggie candidate or gave their Republican incumbent another free pass.

I think the biggest failure of Democrats today is thinking that Republicans believe in norms and will play by the rules. That’s what so bewildering and dismaying about Biden’s behavior. He and his people still think that Republicans want a constitutional republic where one man has one vote and that the rights of the people will be upheld. They are not only naive, but wrong, wrong, wrong. That’s no longer true. That ship has sailed.

[Amishman]

32. We have long misunderstood the electorate

We've long assumed the average voter is a hard working, ethical person; who will (when coaxed) make an informed and reasonable decision with the greater good in mind.

There certainly are a lot of voters like that, but they are not the norm.

The real typical voter is ill informed, selfish, and takes shortcuts when possible. They don't want to learn and make an informed decision, its easier to listen to talking points and be led by fear mongering. They don't care what is good for society as a whole, they want as much as they can get for themselves - even if it means less for others and less overall.

The average voter is more Homer Simpson than Frasier Crane.

[Johnny2X2X]

34. People are easily distracted

When Texas and other states started implementing these awful laws, I expected a bigger reaction. But people are more concerned with their daily lives and too narrow focused to fight for a right they don't need right today. But then when they do need it tomorrow, they'll understand.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

36. To be fair, they are hamstrung bye the make up of the senate

The senate needs to be reworked the land vs population will never work out.

California mass unrepresentative in the Senate and idaho wyoming and north dakota massive over representation in the senate.

R's don't care cause they win with this formula

I think we need to educate people on all of this and they get people out to vote and slowly change this problem

[Vinca]

37. People who can't be bothered to take their noses out of their phones to go vote have been

naive. They've assumed things will always be there and if they were aware of the impending doom at all, they didn't take it seriously. I hope this wakes people the fuck up and they go to vote in November. Vote Democratic or allow Matt Gaetz and Louie Gohmert to have a say in the size of your family.

[muriel_volestrangler]

39. Surely it's the non-Democrats who may have been naive

Democrats have been voting and working against the Republicans. It was the complacent independents and non-voters who didn't think it through