Christianity is not the enemy.

[BWdem4life]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Spazito (a host of the General Discussion forum).

My analogy would be, treat it the same as pit bulls: Punish the dog, not the breed.

Intolerance is not a DU value.

I was raised Catholic, but no longer claim that religion. I have many Catholic family members who do not support Trump and did not support Roe v. Wade being overturned, despite their opposition to the idea of abortion in general. John F. Kennedy was Catholic.

The enemy is FUNDAMENTALISM. Fundamentalist Christians took over the Republican party and are rapidly dismantling the barriers between Church and State. Their goal is an absolute theocracy. This can not stand, and we must fight it with every fiber of our beings.

But we can do so without broad-brush attacks upon religion in general or specific religions.

Islamaphobia is specfically prohibited on DU. We don’t attack that religion due to the beliefs and actions of its most extreme members.

I hope we can nip this backlash against Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular in the bud, at least on this website. It’s hurtful and completely unnecessary, not to mention unhelpful.

Eyes on the prize.

—-

Edited to add Catholicism, based on the first few replies

[lonely bird]

1. OK

Define Christianity.

[BWdem4life]

2. Why?

[lonely bird]

39. Why you ask?

Roman Catholicism
Orthodox Christianity
Protestantism of all its sects/denominations

Imo, a close inspection of those three subsets and the subsets inside them would reveal that each believes and demands that they are the “true faith”, which should actually be described as true religion since too often faith has nothing in common with religion.

So which of these is Christianity? The OT and the NT are loaded with contradictions and errors. Are we to accept that law-making and judging are to be based upon these writings? Are we to accept that law-making and judging are to be based upon individual interpretations of these writings? What of the pronouncements from the hierarchies and/or priests (in the general sense of “priest”) who are wholly human and completely fallible?

We enter a realm where we must admit the fact that people’s belief structures play a significant role in their lives. That combined with a power not granted to the SCOTUS has placed us in the place we are now.

Denigrate Christianity? I don’t need to do that. Religionists do it all on their own.

[Effete Snob]

5. simple

The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master.

A lot of people seem to believe that Christianity somehow stands for a general notion of "be nice to people" or "be nice to people, or else". The behavior of organized large groups of persons saying they are Christians has not historically reflected that notion, in either formulation.

[BlueIdaho]

78. Don't for get - drink his blood.

It’s a Cannibalism- Vampirism one two punch.

[Effete Snob]

88. Good point - the ritual cannibalism is key

I also forgot to mention that all of this is made necessary because the talking snake persuaded the rib-lady to eat from a magical fruit tree.

[barbtries]

20. thank you

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. The belief that Jesus was uniquely anointed by God

See, that was easy, wasn't it? I'm an atheist, and I can do it ("Christ" comes from the Greek for "anoint" ). Why do you ask? Do you think that question helps this discussion in some way?

[lonely bird]

56. No, that is not accurate

The Nicaean Creed as well as the Apostle’s Creed and Athanasius’s Creed detail things a bit more.

Which underscores my other post.

[Effete Snob]

92. Okay, quick question

What, specifically, happens to people who do not subscribe to any of those creeds?

[muriel_volestrangler]

102. Well, no; you're specifying particular denominational beliefs

Obviously, Christianity existed before those Creeds were formulated, so they cannot be the definition. You don't have to be Trinitarian to be Christian. But if you don't think Jesus was 'anointed', then the label 'Christian' would seem pointless.

[Thomas Hurt]

3. I suspect there are substantial numbers of fundamentalists in every flavor of Christianity.

Just not sure you can differentiate between the extremist theocrats, the enablers and the very few, (in my experience) opponents to the extremism.

[Mariana]

4. The majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for Trump in 2016.

They should not be deprived of their fair share of the credit for Trump's presidency, and the consequences thereof.

[LakeArenal]

9. Do you actually have a statistic on that?

Edit: I say this because lots of AAs, Hispanics etc identify as Christian. Not to mention folks like the Bidens and Obamas.

Not one myself I don’t know if most voted Puke.

[leftyladyfrommo]

26. None of the Christians I know voted for Trump.

They had the same concerns about him every one else did.

[Effete Snob]

32. Remarkably the set of "Christians I know" turns out not to be a representative sample

[The Magistrate]

45. A Lesson Best Learned Early, Sir

In '72, I knew no one intending to vote for Nixon....

[Effete Snob]

51. That's why Trumpers think there was election fraud

Nobody in Hogswallop Hollow voted for Biden, so it had to be rigged.

What a shocker that people tend to know a lot of people who are socially similar to themselves.

[The Magistrate]

53. Indeed, Sir

[Mariana]

28. Sure.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/

[LakeArenal]

68. The comment said most Christians not most white Christians.

So you actually proved my point.

[Mariana]

75. 58% of all Protestants, 52% of all Catholics, and 61% of all Mormons.

That's the majority of Christians.

[LakeArenal]

83. It's amazing these statistics can be delineated from secret ballots.

But as I said I didn’t know.

The graph I have to read on a phone. So it’s difficult.

[Effete Snob]

89. Yes, they can

They are determined from exit polls.

What is the percentage of people you think lie to people conducting exit polls just for shits and giggles?

Weird thing - most people don't do that, by far.

There's a reason we know that, do you know what it is?

[Effete Snob]

10. The majority of white people cast their ballots for Trump in 2016 too

[Mariana]

24. Yes.

The majority of white people, the majority of old people, the majority of men, the majority of Christians, etc.

[uponit7771]

18. The majority of white Christian voters cast their ballots with GZP

[Mariana]

29. The majority of Christians.

58% of Protestants, 52% of Catholics, and 61% of Mormons, if you consider them to be Christian.



https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/

[Effete Snob]

54. Well....

The Mormons do have "Jesus Christ" right in the official name of their church, which is more than you can say about a lot of Christian denominations.

I want to hear the argument that a church that starts with "The Church of Jesus Christ..." isn't Christian.

[The Revolution]

94. The Nazis had Socialist in their name...

That didn't make them socialist. Peanuts aren't peas or nuts. We can't really use a name as a basis for categorizing things.

LDS beliefs are quite far removed from traditional Christian beliefs. For example, they reject the idea of the Trinity, which is a huge deal. They have a ton of additional scripture that no other Christian churches recognize. They recognize additional prophets. Some of their beliefs are pretty foreign to what mainstream Christians believe (such as God physically fathering Jesus, the stuff about Kolob, the idea that humans can become gods).

[Effete Snob]

98. Okay, so "groups which are not Christian" include:

Rejecting Trinity:

Church of God (several flavors)
Nazarene Fellowship
Jehovah's Witnesses
United Pentecostal Church International

Additional Scriptures:

Eastern Orthodox (Psalm 151, the Prayer of Manasseh, 3 Maccabees and 1 Esdras)

Additional Prophets:

Seventh Day Adventists
Christian Scientists
Christ Community Church
Oral Roberts Evangelistic Association


----------

That's a real quick hit. Do you have a list of the "Christian" Christians and the non-Christian Christians? This could get confusing.

[The Revolution]

103. It is confusing

I'm not an expert in theology. My main point is that you can't just use a group's name to decide how to categorize them.

But looking at specific beliefs, it is clear that the LDS church is pretty far removed from mainstream Christianity. For example, when I mentioned additional scripture, I mean they have A LOT of additional scripture. I've got a copy of their books on my shelf here...it's huuuge.

Some of the other groups you list are also pretty far removed from the mainstream. There are so may branches of the Christian "family tree", so to speak, that it is very difficult to keep track of them all. Which ones one considers to be "real" Christian depends on how strict you want to be. Personally, I would view the LDS church as sort of a "broken branch" of that tree.

[Effete Snob]

106. Here's the thing...

For each "difference with mainstream Christianity" one might attribute to LDS, there is going to be a significant other Christian denomination which shares that difference.

There are many non-Trinitarian Christian groups. There are many Christian groups with variations in what is, and is not, scripture. There are also quite a few Christian groups with prophets - especially among the pentecostal ones. Oral Roberts was huge back in the day and widely recognized as "Christian" by other Christians.

It's a hopeless exercise, since, even if you want to get into "do they subscribe to X creed", you are going to be under-inclusive of one or another group that is normally deemed "Christian".

Since a lot of them are based around anxiety of what happens when people die, you'd think that "mainstream Christian" groups were in some sort of alignment on the question of "What happens after you die?" or "What do I have to do or believe in order to obtain a preferable afterlife outcome?"

...or the ever-popular "What happens to people who don't do or believe whatever it is you have to do or believe?" because the "if you are nice, the good thing happens" kind of eliminates any particular need for Christianity anyway.

I mean, golly, leaving aside "which books of the Bible are real?", even if they agree on a set of books, try asking them "To what extent is the Bible true?"

I'm familiar with LDS and their beliefs. I was raised in a mainstream protestant church, became an evangelical and subsequently lived for a time in Utah. I've been through the wringer on this stuff, and it's all nonsense. There are passionate arguments that "Catholics aren't Christians" too.

When I lived in Utah, I picked up "Are Mormons Christians" in an LDS bookstore for entertainment. And, really, the book is inadvertently a really convincing read that ALL of them are bananas. But the point is well made that LDS are no more different from any other Christian group than there are differences among Christian groups generally.

Get a roomful of Christians to tell you, for example, "What is baptism about and who qualifies for it?"

[Mariana]

100. You'd have to ask those Christians who don't believe the Mormons are Christian

if you want to hear that argument. There are plenty of them. For the record, there are also many Christians who don't believe Catholics are Christian.

[Effete Snob]

104. Yup

A big chunk of Protestants do not believe Catholics are Christian.

[Lanius]

6. Religion has no place in a modern, civilized society

That includes Christianity

[Meadowoak]

14. +1

[MANative]

43. +1,000,000,000,000

[Seeking Serenity]

65. Does that apply to Islam? Judaism? Buddhism?

Taoism? Indigenous religions?

Just want to know where the line is drawn.

[ZonkerHarris]

77. He use the word religion. Which part of the word do you not understand?

Applies to all

[Seeking Serenity]

81. Just making sure (n/t)

[Duncan Grant]

76. ...if your religion is about controlling others for their own good.

I don’t need anyone’s religion. Especially those who think it’s their right to make me adhere to their selective definition of morality. Fuck those people.

[Duppers]

79. Bravo !! K&R

[anarch]

108. I think it absolutely has a place, and that place is "not connected to the state apparatus"

Personally I think religion's place in society has always been as Jesus himself tried to explain it, a personal thing that should be between the religious aspirant and God (or whatever the religious person wants to call it). I thought there was supposed to be a whole separation of church and state built into our system of government, but that has turned out to be a bunch of bullshit.

[LakeArenal]

7. Liars are liars whether in God's name or not.

Until Churches pay taxes and become a-political there is going to be pushback.

Today, reversal of R vs W is Christianity becoming nationalized. It has become some sort of moral issue not a science and health issue. Health including confidentiality between a doctor and a patient that happens to be a woman.

[maxsolomon]

8. Catholicism is not Fundamentalist Christianity.

Yet that is the religion of the judges who voted for this decision. The RCC is a major force behind the RTL movement, and it has been for decades.

Perhaps you can allow 1 or 2 days of "backlash" against the dominant religion of this nation imposing its morals without whinging about persecution? Most of those doing the "broad-brush" attacks are, or were raised, Christian themselves.

Another low-count poster handing out orders.

[BWdem4life]

21. Oh, was there an order in there?

Pretty sure it was just a couple of observations and a suggestion or two.

And, it sounds like you want to be able to attack Catholicism on DU, is that right? John F. Kennedy was Catholic.

[Duncan Grant]

82. Some say attack, others say analysis and evaluation.

It’s not an attack to point out the policies and tenets of Catholicism — as an institution. Saying someone is “intrinsically evil”* because they’re Catholic? Not cool.

*The policy of Catholicism is that gay men are intrinsically evil.

[BlackSkimmer]

11. Happy to rec.

I’m not in the least religious, but this hostility and bigotry I’m reading here is not a good look for DU. Imagine the word Islam substituted for Christianity in some of these posts I’ve seen today.

[hatrack]

15. We don't live in a country facing existential challenges from fundamentalist Islam . . .

We live in a country facing existential challenges from fundamentalist Christianity, a movement seeking to destroy even the idea of secular government and secular law.

It's not bigotry to name the enemies of secular, rational government as they seek to destroy fundamental rights, and as they actually destroy fundamental rights, as they did today.

It's the first step towards self-preservation.

[BlackSkimmer]

42. I can't answer how I'd like precisely because Islam is protected from this bigotry here. so oh well.

At any rate, yes on the fundamentalist cretins of any religion, they deserve scorn, but there are many good DUers and many good Dems who consider themselves Christian, and they shouldn't have to see this bigotry here.

President Obama, President Biden, President Carter...all good Christians, and I bet most of those posting hateful screeds against Christianity would not dream of doing so to any of their faces.

[phylny]

57. Thank you for speaking out.

I have found it doesn't matter - the bashing continues.

[BlackSkimmer]

107. I hear you.

It's very disappointing.

This site has changed so much, and I hate that.

[XanaDUer2]

66. Thank you nt

[hatrack]

67. Did I say "Christianity"? No, I said "fundamentalist Christiantiy".

Your lack of reading comprehension is not my problem.

[Mariana]

113. President Obama, President Biden, President Carter...all good Christians...

They are the minority. The majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for Trump in 2016. This ruling would not have happened without their enthusiastic support, and they deserve to receive their fair share of the credit.

[Gore1FL]

23. All religions suck when they are forced upon the masses.

Today, the responsible religion was Christianity. It isn't because Christianity is somehow worse that the others, but rather that it was 6 Christians that put their faith before everything else.

[roamer65]

12. Then you had better discern yourselves from the fundies REAL QUICK.

Make it very clear you are not in their camp. I see strong anti-fundamentalist fervor on the horizon.

[comradebillyboy]

13. The Roman Catholic Church is not a fundamentalist church, yet

they are fully on board with overturning Roe. They also support outlawing all forms of artificial contraception.

In the US Evangelicals and Catholics make up the vast majority of self-identified Christians. The other Protestant denominations are rapidly declining.

Just where are our supposed Christian allies?

[leftyladyfrommo]

41. Catholics aren't the only Christian church. They have

major problems that go back 1700 years.

Don't include the United Methodist. The Episcopal , Presbyterian , Lutheran churches. Many of their members are liberal.

[comradebillyboy]

48. The churches you name are all rapidly declining

in both numbers and influence. While almost all churches in the US are losing members as time goes on the RCC and the various fundamentalist Protestant churches remain the most influential in American politics by a great margin.

[Seeking Serenity]

80. Actually, the RC Church is remarkably liberal on a lot of issues, like the DP for one

It's just abortion and contraceptives that they cross us.

[leftyladyfrommo]

105. Most of my friends are good Catholics and they are

Liberal on abortion and birth control. They may not like abortion but they are pro choice.

[Gore1FL]

16. Religion in general is the enemy when it is enforced. nt

[leftyladyfrommo]

31. The key word is enforced.

Religious in this country have all the same freedoms everyone else has. Sometimes they lose sight of that fact.

[Gore1FL]

34. They would seem to have more rights if it's their religion be crammed down our throats. nt

[LuckyCharms]

17. I call myself a Christian, but I'm probably not one.

I try to generally follow what I "hear" to be the teachings of Christ.

I've never actually read a bible, and don't care to.

Kind of have my own God.

I agree with your OP. Fundamentalism is the problem. Christian is too broad of a brush to describe the problem. Many different ways to be a Christian.

[Lanius]

25. You're a Christian but haven't read the Bible? Typical Christian.

[atreides1]

19. Conservative Christianity is the enemy!

And that's what's responsible for todays SCOTUS ruling...no one believes in the pile of BS that Alito spewed as reasons...this decision was based on one thing only...the religious belief of the conservative majority of the court!!

[Novara]

22. Yes, christianity IS my enemy as long as it thinks it should control my uterus.

No fucking religion has any place in the fucking politics of this country. As long as it is constantly pushed into our politics, yes, it IS the enemy.

It needs to stay the fuck in its own lane.

[Grey]

46. Yes, I totally agree. n/a

[Duncan Grant]

85. +1

Amen.

[JCMach1]

27. If they don't actively oppose Christo-fascism, they are the enemy

[Irish_Dem]

33. I am a white christian who is sick of white christians.

I am a white catholic who is sick of white catholics.

[Coventina]

35. SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!!! Christianity is a patriarchal religion, PERIOD!!!!!

The burning of witches, the attempt to wipe out other religions, the codifying of women as "lesser than" it is all baked into Christianity.

[48656c6c6f20]

37. I've never treated a mental disease as the enemy.

We need lots more places to treat Christianity and save those poor souls

[The Magistrate]

38. Here's The Problem With That, Sir

People in fact do aim their criticism at 'fundagelicals', and in the vast majority of cases this is abundantly clear. Far too many more sensible Christians insist on taking these as attacks on themselves. Which allows the christo-fascists to posture as being attacked for their religion, rather than their politics and general moral worthlessness. Christians who oppose christo-fascist politics need to react to attacks on them politicaly, rather than pretending to defend against some sort of 'slippery slope' peril to themselves.

Nor can any Christian, of whatever stripe, seriously expect persons who do not adhere to their religion to treat it as something set apart and immune from harsh criticism. I assure you you do not want to engage me on the subject of whether a deity demanding a man murder his son to demonstrate his loyalty to the voices in his head can possibly possess a scintilla of moral worth, or offer moral guidance to any person of human sensibilities. Far more can be cited, and that without going into the pluperfect idiocy of the dogmas reared on the old tales.

These seldom impinge on political criticisms, and when they do, with epithets of the 'sky-daddy' sort, mainstream Christians are just going to have to learn to live with it until they have cleaned their own house. So long as a preacher can claim it is Christianity to preach murder of homosexuals, and do so knowing many will howl that describing him as a piece of barely sentient shit who ought to be euthanized as a public health measure is somehow an attack on Christianity, cconversations like this are going to break out.

[Duncan Grant]

69. +infinity

You said this much more politely than I would. You nailed it, btw. Thoroughly and completely nailed it.

[BWdem4life]

87. Just curiously,

Why do you use the word “Sir” or “Ma’am” all the time? How do you know you’ve chosen the right gender for me? How do you even know whether I identify with either gender?

This is so off-putting to me that I find it hard to focus on the actual content of your posts.

[The Magistrate]

95. You Have Just Illustrated One Reason

By having demonstrated such an instinct for the capillary, and then gone further to claim yourself incapable of engaging reasoned argument (albeit reasoned argument seasoned with a bit of rhetorical flourish at points), you have informed me there is no point in discussing any matter of import with you, and I shall cease to do so.

[BWdem4life]

99. Ok then.

[relayerbob]

40. RW fanatics and terrorists are no more Christian

than Mid Eastern terrorists and fanatics are Muslim. They may appropriate the names, but that doesn't make them adherants to the faith or their holy books. Both are evil hypocrites. So I agree, tt is wrong to paint everyone with those broad brush strokes.

[Mariana]

114. If they aren't Christian, what are they, exactly?

Are they atheists? Are they secretly followers of some other religion? What are they?

[RANDYWILDMAN]

44. How many people died in the name of christian values , including this ?

when we have people who believe in christ en masse, rise up and say enough ??

[msongs]

47. 2000 of history indicate it is an enemy nt

[chowder66]

49. I don't see any religious rights being taken away but women's rights were just broad-brushed away.

So I get it that people are angry and broad-brushing against Religion. It's the impetus for some, if not many, toward fundamentalism, especially in this day and age.

Religious orgs and institutions have been getting radical and political so yes, they are going to hear some broad-brush backlash.
They are not getting taxed and they just got taxpayer money for their schools.

If they don't want the backlash then the congregants need to start getting their own holy houses in order.

[Politicub]

50. LMAO - please, won't someone think of the persecuted Christians?

[HAB911]

60. LOL

[gay texan]

52. Yes it is.

Every single stupid abrahamic religion is responsible for this mess.

[leftyladyfrommo]

58. I guess I didn't realize there is so much hate.

My family are all Methodists and they are all staunch Democrats. And nice people. My brother helps with the food pantry every week.

I am Buddhist but all this hatred toward one group that you don't approve of is appalling. It's not a lot different than the deplorables painting all liberals with the same brush.

[gay texan]

86. This "group" has a knack for making my life miserable

This "groups" interpretation of a collection of campfire stories has to potential to get me or my fellow LGBTQ brothers and sisters killed.

This "group" has a knack for enacting laws THAT DIRECTLY AFFECT US!!!!!!

I could give a rat's ass less about anyone's good works as long as you belong to the same invisible sky beings club.

[electric_blue68]

55. The Fundamentalists in Each Religion are The Problem...

former Catholic, didn't become a Christian became a
Spiritual person.

I particularly honor the liberal sides of religions.

[Wounded Bear]

59. Tax the churches! nt

[HAB911]

61. Christianity is my enemy

only because of how I am treated by them

Christianity by it's very nature is supremacist. It is a supremacist world view. All religions are. They are right and everyone else is wrong, or else they are not true believers.

Your honor, I rest my case.

[zappaman]

62. Can't speak for anyone else

but it's certainly my enemy.

[2 Meow Momma]

63. Semantics.

Sorry it’s hurtful. I’ll think of y’all when we start hearing of women dying due to christofascism.

Maybe then we’ll have a handle on what’s hurtful.

[NightWatcher]

64. Fuck that. I'm sick of oppressive imaginary men setting our freedoms and rules.

Fuck religion. It's outdated and bullshit.

[Duncan Grant]

70. Mature Christian: "Oh, this isn't about me. It's about fanatics."

See how easy it is for a mature, reasonable Christian to navigate the secular world?

[nini]

72. nah.. it's a weapon now

It's being used to dismantle rights that should be guaranteed under our Constitution now.

I wouldn't take it personally when people are lashing out at this - especially today.

[Seeking Serenity]

73. I'm gonna disagree with this point

Intolerance is not a DU value.

Actually, it very much is. As long as it's directed at the right targets.

It's a form of Marcusian "Repressive Tolerance."

[WhiskeyGrinder]

74. Some forms of it sure the fuck are.

[MineralMan]

84. There is no uniform "Christianity."

Nope. So, I can't say that I agree with your original post.

As always, I will take people as they are and judge them individually for what they stand for and what they stand against. Their religion doesn't matter to me. It is their behavior and attitude I'm interested in. Religion, per se, is irrelevant.

[arthritisR_US]

90. What you are forgetting is that the Catholic Bishops

resoundingly support today’s court decision.

[highplainsdem]

91. +1,000,000

[AntiFascist]

93. Opus Dei...

“Leonard Leo can take credit for installing four Supreme Court justices” – John Roberts, Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh. “...

Leo is on the board of directors of Opus Dei’s Catholic Information Center located at 15th and K Street, two blocks from the White House. The Center is “a rallying point for ultra-conservative Catholics eager for a voice in the secular halls of government power” and “advances a hard-right political agenda,” according to Church and State, Americans United for Separation of Church and State’s magazine.
...
Other members of the Catholic Information Center’s Board of Directors include:

Pat Cipollone – Trump’s White House counsel, the president’s principal legal adviser. Cipollone is a partner in Stein Mitchell Cipollone Beato and Missner LLP.
...
Opus Dei is a secret society and an official arm of the Catholic Church. Its roots are in fascist Spain.

http://churchandstate.org.uk/2019/03/opus-deis-influence-on-the-u-s-judiciary/

[Behind the Aegis]

97. Conflating

Christianity is a philosophy, an idea, so yes, it can be criticized to an insane degree, if need be. Christians are a people and their actions can be criticized, but they shouldn't all be grouped together and persecuted or condemned because they are Christians, that is bigotry.

Christianity is a zombie-worshipping death cult. -- Not bigoted, but not helpful and over-the-top.
Christians are insufferable, intolerable bigots. -- Bigotry!

I will admit it is a very slippery slope and many slide into the bigotry part and others claim it when there isn't really any bigotry in play, but rather a condemnation of a philosophy.

Christianity, and all religions, are nothing more than a collection of beliefs and ideas and are up for discussion, even if the discussion is hurtful to its adherents.

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." -- Eleanor Roosevelt

All of this said, I really do not like to see people acting as if Christianity is the problem; it isn't. Bigotry is the problem, and how one gets there may be part of the issue, but it is not the issue!

[Hestia]

101. Sorry, but be the last unsupported group by DU & others to be discriminated against & then we'll

talk - I am talking about Paganism in all its varied flavors.

Have your kids taken away because of your spiritual path; have your former spouse change to xianity in order to find favor with a judge to go against you in divorce cases; have your business destroyed due to your spiritual path and the local sheriff/police captain turns a blind eye, because you know, your spiritual path.

See Pagan Education Network (I used to get their physical newsletter) for further stories on how xtians set out to purposely destroy people's lives because they have the audacity to exercise their freedom of religion and exploit the laws to do so.

Remember, it is okay to lie to and about someone who doesn't follow the liar's path - it's how Cult45 lies makes no difference to the xtian nationalists - it's what they are good at and give Cult45 tips on how to do so.

Interesting book - Dark Star Rising by Gary Lachman - covers how Cult45 is a natural born chaos magician and how his followers pretty much gave him his own personal magic wand to do whatever he wants. Whew, talk about a deep dive of a book. It's not light reading and you have to sit back after each section and really mull what it is you are reading.

https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Star-Rising-Magick-Power/dp/0143132067

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36183588-dark-star-rising

[msfiddlestix]

109. In the context of our current culture...

Christianity is now equal to fundamentalism at large.

I do understand and am aware, that not all of "christianity" embodies fundelmentalists views.

But that part of christianity appears to be significantly in the minority. And with a few exceptions, most of those leaders are not activists making their objections to the current religious culture dominated by dominionists and other fundamentalists.

For me, Christianity whether tholism, southern babtists, pentacostal etc have all shared one thing in my eyes, extremists views and
assetions of righteousness and notions based in mythology. I've looked at this way since I was 12 years old.

I do love old gospel songs though. If only preachers shut their damn mouths and sang songs instead, I might become a believer too.

[tenderfoot]

110. I'm glad you're more concerned about "Christianity"'s public image rather than what "Christians" did

today.

[walkingman]

111. The reason that Christianity is bashed is because it is America's dominate religion.

The main beef I have with Christianity is instead of it being a personal decision it has become more and more a political movement. I personally don't care what someone believes as long as they don't force their beliefs on me through political and judicial decisions.

Today's SCOTUS decision is a good example of this.

I think it is a net negative for religion to force people to adhere to their dogma.

[Initech]

112. The enemy is GOP propaganda.

This country was a completely different place before Rush Limbaugh and Fox News came along. Now it's completely divided and totally unrecognizable from what it once was.

[Spazito]

115. *LOCKING*

Host consensus is this OP doesn't meet the criteria in the SOP for this forum:

Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum.

Threads about the existence/non-existence of God, threads discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of religion in general, and threads discussing the truth/untruth of religious dogma are not permitted under normal circumstances and should be posted under Religion.