General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNot fighting like hell for Garland was a big mistake and not getting RBG to retire before 2016 was
a major fuck up.
When will we ever learn?
AZSkiffyGeek
(11,011 posts)FoxNewsSucks
(10,429 posts)Turning a blind eye toward any blatant screw-up is a big part of what got us where we are.
brush
(53,776 posts)the process and denied Garland hearings and a vote on the Senate floor. Are people forgetting how the Senate works?
mobeau69
(11,144 posts)JohnSJ
(92,190 posts)it was....quite sickening to see
johnp3907
(3,731 posts)mobeau69
(11,144 posts)But I edited for readers such as yourself.
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)mobeau69
(11,144 posts)lapucelle
(18,252 posts)Reading the thread did serve me well.
AkFemDem
(1,823 posts)But hands were tied. Really one man held the fate of the Supreme Court in his hands- Mitch McConnell, and he wasnt budging. Its still infuriating; and its a problem that could pop up yet again in the next two years- but I dont know that theres an easy fix.
Coventina
(27,115 posts)former9thward
(32,003 posts)So that was not a "fuck up".
mobeau69
(11,144 posts)JohnSJ
(92,190 posts)In every critical swing state Hillary lost by less than 1%, and in those same critical swing states Jill Stein received 1% of the vote
It did make a difference. It also made a difference in 2000 also when too many people voted for Nader
What did people think would happen?
mobeau69
(11,144 posts)can.
W_HAMILTON
(7,864 posts)You blame Obama and Democrats and yet rush to the defense of the Susan Sarandons and Jill Steins of the world.
We see you.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)He dominated that election from start to finish. And without his antics we would have destroyed Trump.
JohnSJ
(92,190 posts)and womans rights were at stake, I can only conclude their supposed progressive credentials are only empty lip service
JI7
(89,249 posts)anti semites, anti gay , anti women types .
JohnSJ
(92,190 posts)JI7
(89,249 posts)against Republicans .
Cha
(297,196 posts)that Played a Big Part in Hillary Losing in the Swing States. They need to own up to their LIES.
TY for the Reality Check
I'm sick of this Blaming the Dems Crap.. They're On the Front Lines Now Fighting to Save Our Democracy.. I don't see any 3rd party Gaslit Liars owning up to what they did.
💙💛
herding cats
(19,564 posts)Believing the lies that this would never happen, they and their beliefs were the real future of this nation. Their time was now and they didn't give a damn about the antiquated, flawed system we struggle under. They deserve more and they deserve it all NOW, not by increments over time.
Now they're going to be fighting the rest of their lives, their children's lives and their grandchildren's lives to regain the ground we've lost and are still losing.
The system is severely flawed, but victory went to those who were patient enough to exploit it and work within its constraints. Just like our previous victories were ours, before we threw our last semblance of intelligence to the wind and burned our long game to the ground.
Now, here we are. We were close, but our vanities were our undoing. We're now effectively ruled by the minority, and we're all the worse for it.
Cha
(297,196 posts)The system is severely flawed, but victory went to those who were patient enough to exploit it and work within its constraints. Just like our previous victories were ours, before we threw our last semblance of intelligence to the wind and burned our long game to the ground.
💙💛
herding cats
(19,564 posts)Everything is happening just as expected, yet people are looking for ways to exonerate themselves for their personal culpabilities and seeking to lay blame at anyones feet other than their own.
They were warned and ignored the warnings, but now that we're all having to pay the prices for their childish ignorance they're pointing fingers every which direction but at themselves.
Some are even saying this is the catalyst needed to effect the change they want. Seriously? Generations of lives impacted horrifically was their end goal? How freaking ignorant can a person be? They seem to think someone can undo the damage by waving a magic wand, or some such ignorance. Do these fools still believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny, too?
Cha
(297,196 posts)and no self reflection. It's Always someone else's Fault.. while they continue to Yap their Big Gaslit Mouths OFF.
I'm angry too as we all have a right to be.
Big Mouth Sarandon said trump would be the "catalyst"".. All trump did was get 3 Sadistic Judges Confirmed and let Fascism Oozed into our Wh & Country.
And, then Biden got 81 ,Million Votes.. I bet that pissed her right the hell Off.
💙💛
betsuni
(25,500 posts)That all dysfunction in government is caused by money, get money out of politics and Republicans will be nice. There will be an alliance between left and right populist voters and the revolution will happen. Then the Democratic Establishment will be destroyed, the true roadblock to progress. NUTTY.
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)Cha
(297,196 posts)Get! always was.
Mahalo, lapucelle
💙💛
TheFarseer
(9,322 posts)So we actually did a great job of getting lefties to vote for our candidate.
Autumn
(45,071 posts)run for President. And in every election there are more than 2 candidates, there were 16 on my 2016 presidential election ballot. Don't like it? Get someone to change it.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)I could never understand why for dems, courts have been less motivating than for gop voters.
Dont think the damage can be undone in the foreseeable future. It will require the same focus, determination and time to reshape the courts as its been for repubs.
Also, this isnt 1970, availability of abortion pills is huge, even if not legal (good luck stopping drugs). Needs to be more research and more FDA approved outpatient options.
We need to focus on how to help low income women living in antiabortion states to access services in other states. Solidarity.
Overturning same sex marriage will be far more devastating even if fewer people will be affected by that ruling. At least, there could be a way with financial help to access abortion and then you can go back to your state and move on. Ban on same sex marriage will literally force people to move and will severely limit freedoms in many states for married same sex couples, especially those with kids. Not to mention unthinkable custody issues.
Demsrule86
(68,559 posts)Will face prosecution and lengthy prison sentences...perhaps the death penalty. There is no silver lining.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)changing the past. That's why they get away with stuff like this. Looks like we'll never get to deal with issues of the 21st century, technology, etc because rethugs keep shifting the discussion back to the 1800s.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)Our downfall was ignoring it and assuming our issues superseded theirs. They played a long game, and climbed in bed with successful propagandist who destroyed us in 2016. Laying the foundation for Roe to be overturned and many more such losses. While we deluded ourselves that just because we were right, we could ignore the failures of our system we are constrained to work within.
Now, here we are looking at generations to regain lost ground our previous generations fought tooth and nail to win. We're weakened as a Nation and will be a continued hindrance in major global issues such as climate change and equality.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)When will we ever learn?
I told people the Supreme Court was at risk, and how serious this was. I, personally, screamed it from the rooftops. Yet, here we are. Exactly where I said we would be with roe repealed and many more of our rights about to be stripped from us.
Cha
(297,196 posts)Of course, We'll Keep Fighting!
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Lunabell
(6,080 posts)I was a vocal critic of Hillary in the primary. Mostly because of her vote for the defense of marriage bullshit when she was a senator, but after she won the nomination, I was behind her 150%!!! Idiots who could not look into the future, Susan Sarandon and the 10% of Bernie bros who voted for trump, are to blame for this fiasco.
"I just don't like Hillary." "I can't bring myself to vote for Hillary. " Well, boohoo. I didn't like her much either, but the alternative was equivalent to voting for a psychopathic serial killer with his finger on the destruct button.
Thanks a whole bunch, dumbasses.
Demsrule86
(68,559 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Great Dems... kind and honorable. Now.. We need kind and honorable but more media savvy and more passionate fighters. People who can think outside the box AND make it happen! Love them all but time to go. My opinion.
brush
(53,776 posts)Garland a confirmation hearing and a vote on the Senate flood, saying he wanted to wait until the election as Obama's term was in his last year as president.
He of reversed that when RBG died and rushed Coney Barrett through confirmation hearings and a vote two months before the Clinton v Biden election.
Are people forgetting the Senate Majority leader is in complete charge of that process, not the minority party. Which is what we Dems were in. 2020.
NewsCenter28
(1,835 posts)The court was 4-4. He wouldn't have been struck down. Also, we then could have refused senate motions to adjourn after Trump took power, if he did, thus keeping the post for Garland, or at worst, having it vacant.
Also, we had the filibuster in 2005-2006. Roberts and Alito both should have been filibustered. Why weren't they? Bush was crashing and burning due to Iraq and Katrina by the time Roberts and Alito came up for a vote. We had all the political capital we needed to filibuster them both but we couldn't for some strange reason. Then Senator Obama did the right thing there. He did vote to filibuster Alito. But, both should have been.
brush
(53,776 posts)the Senate republicans could negate it. See this link.
https://www.cleveland.com/politics/2016/12/could_barack_obama_recess-appo.html
And what's the point of going back the Bush admin and Alito when it's hardly current and neither Obama, Hillary, trump or Biden had anything to do with it?
Enough of the blame the Democrats angle.
Demsrule86
(68,559 posts)Garland. If some want judges then vote in every election for Democrats.
BumRushDaShow
(128,935 posts)for a series of "Recess Appointments".
Ever since Shrub "recess-appointed" the disgraceful John Bolton, the Senate now pretty much has a standing policy (Rule) that they will hold "Pro-forma sessions", gavelling in every 3 days for "Morning Business", and they will "adjourn 'Subject to the Call of the Chair'", meaning they DON'T go into a "recess", making that period NOT subject to the "Recess Appointment" opportunity.
Obama challenged that indicating that there wasn't really any legislative activity going on during those periods and the Senate was effectively "in recess". That resulted in a case that went to the SCOUTS -
12-1281 NLRB v. Noel Canning (06/26/2014) - Supreme Court
By Robert Barnes
June 26, 2014
The Supreme Court ruled unanimously Thursday that President Obama exceeded his constitutional authority in making high-level government appointments in 2012 when he declared the Senate to be in recess and unable to act on the nominations. Obama made appointments to the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) at a time when the Senate was holding pro forma sessions every three days precisely to thwart the presidents ability to exercise the power.
The Senate is in session when it says it is, Justice Stephen G. Breyer wrote for the court, stressing that if the Senate is able to conduct business, that is enough to keep the president from making recess appointments. But the court stepped back from handing Obama and those who will follow him in the Oval Office a more substantial loss. A bare majority of the justices upheld, in theory at least, the presidents ability to make recess appointments when the Senate is indeed on extended break, saying history weighs in favor of a broad power.
The decision comes at a time when Republican opposition to the presidents policies and Obamas vow to bypass a gridlocked Congress by using his executive powers have consumed Washington. Although Breyer said the court hesitated to upset the compromises and working arrangements that the elected branches of government themselves have reached, it is the lack of such cooperation that brought the dispute to the court for the first time in the more than 200-year history of the Constitution.
The courts decision did not seem to encourage the two sides to come together. Republicans said the decision vindicated their view that Obama oversteps his constitutional authority in all manner of policy decisions. A unanimous Supreme Court, said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.), has rejected Obamas brazen power grab.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/supreme-court-rebukes-obama-on-recess-appointments/2014/06/26/e5e4fefa-e831-11e3-a86b-362fd5443d19_story.html
where the SCOTUS unanimously agreed that the Executive overstepped authority citing the U.S. Constitution -
(snip)
Section 5.
Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members, and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business; but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the attendance of absent members, in such manner, and under such penalties as each House may provide.
Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two thirds, expel a member.
Each House shall keep a journal of its proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such parts as may in their judgment require secrecy; and the yeas and nays of the members of either House on any question shall, at the desire of one fifth of those present, be entered on the journal.
Neither House, during the session of Congress, shall, without the consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting.
(snip)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei
So they told him that "If the Senate SAYS they are "NOT IN RECESS", then they are "NOT IN RECESS".
And those NLRB members that he DID "Recess Appoint" were then REMOVED once that ruling came down.
THE END.
Vinca
(50,269 posts)the Senate leader? I don't know. But I do know we most likely wouldn't be where we are if Garland had been seated and another person had replaced RBG. This isn't a time for the woulda, shouldas though. We have to activate voters for November and get the House bill codifying Roe protections over to the Senate and passed.
Demsrule86
(68,559 posts)responsible.
Vinca
(50,269 posts)Demsrule86
(68,559 posts)Obama in the back because they didn't get lots of goodies especially after we lost the House. No party will ever confirm justices without a Senate majority at this point.
lostnfound
(16,178 posts)I dont think you can quantify the impact of that force of nature..she was an inspiration for millions all the way to the end.
Demsrule86
(68,559 posts)malaise
(268,980 posts)The truth
onenote
(42,700 posts)The truth is that there is nothing that Obama or anyone else on the Democratic side could have done to get Garland confirmed. Period. End of discussion.
And while in hindsight, it would have been better if RBG had retired while a Democrat was in the White House, I've seen nothing in this thread to indicate how she could have been persuaded or pressured to retire.