Starting the process for citizenship in another country

[cherish44]

Last edited Sat Jun 25, 2022, 03:05 PM - Edit history (1)

I have ancestors from Luxembourg and all you have to do to get dual citizenship is prove familial ties to a Luxembourgian citizen no matter how many generations back. My sister did this a few years ago, so did a cousin. I haven't done it yet mainly because it's very expensive and I once held out hope for this country. But I'm going to figure out how to get the money and I'm getting out of this country. I'm reading the writing on the wall and America is toxic.

[OnDoutside]

1. Congratulations !

[BSdetect]

2. Unfortunately unless you renounce your US citizenship you will have to do US tax returns

[cherish44]

4. No plans to renounce US citizenship at this time

I still want to vote in the US.

[róisín_dubh]

14. So? If you make under $90,000 USD

Your income isn’t taxed.
I’m a UK resident on a visa. I’m grateful my company will extend that visa and I’ll eventually be able to become a citizen (because the Irish government doesn’t accept third generation applicants).

[BSdetect]

22. If you make under $90k where? In the USA? In Ireland? Sorry, bit unsure what you meant.

Pity about the thirid generation cutoff. My granny was born and lived in the Irish Republic.

[JCMach1]

70. Up to about 90K foreign income is exempt for US tax purposes

If you have foreign residency

[róisín_dubh]

100. Exactly this. I worded it badly nt

[Celerity]

105. For 2022 earned income it's $112K, not 90K

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16849594

[JCMach1]

107. It must have gone up... 2012 was my last expat tax form

[Celerity]

118. it goes up every year

[DFW]

121. That only helps for foreign income

I live in Germany, but my income is entirely in the USA, for which the Germans have their hands out from the first dollar.

[Celerity]

138. auslndische Einknfte

https://germantaxes.de/tax-tips/foreign-income/

How is foreign income taxed?

Anyone who has registered their residence in Germany or resides in Germany is subject to unlimited income tax (unbeschränkt einkommensteuerpflichtig). As a result, all income, whether from home or abroad, must be taxed in Germany. In addition, taxes are levied by the respective state from abroad. This is not unusual and is called the Quellenprinzip.

In order to avoid double taxation (Doppelbesteuerung), there is an agreement between most countries to prevent this. Double taxation is avoided in two ways.

Exemption method (Freistellungsmethode)

revenue generated abroad is tax-exempt in Germany, but is subject to the proviso safeguarding progression (Progressionsvorbehalt)

Crediting method (Anrechnungsmethode)

foreign income is recorded in Germany and the tax paid abroad is credited against the tax liability (Steuerschuld)

[DFW]

141. That is in an ideal situation, and in print only. Reality, sadly, does not follow those guidelines

"Exemption method (Freistellungsmethode)

revenue generated abroad is tax-exempt in Germany, but is subject to the proviso safeguarding progression (Progressionsvorbehalt)"

I wish. ALL my revenue is generated in the USA. The Germans nevertheless want to tax just about all of it. Much of my income is generated out of my S-Corp partnerships. As partnerships, since they are taxed before distribution in the USA, they are subject to no further taxation in the USA or Germany. To not feel left out, the Germans are instead calling this income "dividends," which ARE taxable in Germany despite prior taxation, and they couldn't care less about the Double Taxation treaty. I showed my case to a friend who is a judge on the Düsseldorf Tax Court, a tax law professor at the Universoity of Bonn, and who wrote his doctoral thesis on double taxation. He says the German tax authorities are wrong to try and tax me again on this income. They couldn't care less.

"Crediting method (Anrechnungsmethode)

foreign income is recorded in Germany and the tax paid abroad is credited against the tax liability (Steuerschuld)"

Again, in theory only. If it refers to straight income, the Germans take the stance that THEY get first shot, and it the USA that needs to credit the German tax paid. Neither side wants to give ground. The USA withholds, and the Germans demand estimated tax payments that I would pay if I had received the income in Germany, telling me to settle up with the IRS after they are done with me.

Then there is my Roth IRA. I paid my taxes in full when I converted. For the IRS, I'm done, and I was legally still a US resident at the time of conversion. "Thank you very much for the money, dear taxpayer, hope your investment does well, because if it doesn't, it's your loss." The Germans say, "we don't care WHAT you paid up in advance. There is no Roth IRA in Germany, the Double Taxation treaty was written before there was such a thing, so the second you take any of the tax-paid money out of your IRA, we get half. If you were stupid enough to pay the IRS 40% when you converted, that's not our fault. Pay up, and Heil Honecker!

Reality is seldom blanket-covered by printed rules, and, in any case, those printed rules are only as good as any given official's interpretation of them. German tax workers are "Beamten." That means they are unfirable civil servants for life. That, in turn, means their careers can only go two ways: sideways or up. If they bring in lots of money, they get pats on the head and eventually a promotion. Should they bring in comparatively little, they are not promoted, and run the risk of being stuck at their posts for years or decades, passed over to promote the more aggressive workers willing to bend the rules, or at least interpret them aggressively, hoping their victims are not prepared to go to court.

Like the thread where there was blanket condemnation of Americans living abroad (or those wanting to), no broad categorization covers all cases. My friend, the judge, had sympathy for me because I fall through some major cracks in the double taxation rules. Where there is ambiguity, the Germans go for Enteignung. The tradition goes back almost a century, and they have had a lot of practice with it, with a few minor interruptions.
.

[TxGuitar]

92. Irish citizenship requires only 1 grandparent

To be born in Ireland. I know because I did this years ago and my wife also became a citizen. I do believe the rules are different now regarding spousal citizenship. I think you have to live there for 3 years for your non -EU spouse to apply for citizenship

[róisín_dubh]

99. If you make $90K in whatever foreign country.

So whatever the equivalent is (I think in the UK it’s something like £64K). Whatever amount over $90K is what you get taxed on.

[Celerity]

104. It is $112K for 2022 foreign income, not 90K

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16849594

[mopinko]

25. it was my understanding that if i get my irish passport, my kids can apply.

it isnt guaranteed, but is often granted. they want the diaspora to visit. i need to get off my ass. i just need to gather my docs, and file. entitled on both sides.
i'm guessing my youngest is getting up a new head of steam about this. they were already mad since '16.

that's ok. i'm sorta mad at my mom that she got a passport for the 1st time after she retired SO THAT she could go to ireland, and got a us instead of irish. i dont know if she even knew she could. it would have been 2 more docs, but she likely had them in her possession at one point. her mom died in our house. at any rate, an easy lift. had an aunt that was a good genealogist. she would have been happy to help.

oh well. i'm guessing the irish cultural center here w be standing room only for their genealogy workshops for a while. not that ireland is that much better on issues of theocracy, but they're way better than even a decade ago.

[Native]

38. I have dual citizenship. My grandmother was born in Ireland.

At the time (about 8 years ago), I was advised that my children could not apply for citizenship as they did not meet the criteria. It's not just having citizenship that qualifies your descendants, you must have been born in Ireland if your children or grandchildren are to be eligible for citizenship.

[gldstwmn]

59. Irish passports are highly desirable. I'm not sure when your relative was born but there was a fire

at the Public Records office about a hundred years ago that destroyed a bunch of records. Still I'm confident that I can find what I'm looking for. Also, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints has a pretty extensive registry too.

[róisín_dubh]

101. I'm considering a third generation...

Petition. I have a couple friends who are Irish lawyers (on various issues) and say it’s worth a shot. It helps I’m a historian and legal scholar by training, so the research isn’t difficult where records are available.

[mopinko]

116. well, best of luck. let me know how it goes.

[Celerity]

103. That $90K figure is old for the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. For 2022 income it's $112K

Tax Year FEIE Amount

2022 (filed in 2023) $112,000
2021 (filed in 2022) $108,700
2020 (filed in 2021) $107,600
2019 (filed in 2020) $105,900

https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/tips-updates-foreign-earned-income-exclusion/

[Old Crank]

69. Before you make any jump.

Get some tax advise from a professional.
If Luxemburg is like Germany, and the US, you will be taxed on worldwide income. Luxemburg will get the first bite of the apple. The US has an exclusion, around $100,000, of income earned out of the US if you meet residency requirements in that country. My social security is taxed in Germany. Income from my IRA is taxed in Germany. If the Germans don't take enough the IRS will take what else is owed to them.
Really look into the tax consequences. If you have money in tax deferred accounts it might be worth it to pull out a lump sum and pay US taxes, generally lower, first then bring that money with you for expenses, down payments etc. Get advice. Every case is different.

Good luck.
If you do jump and visit Munich, don't be a stranger.

[DFW]

127. It's not so horrible if your income is in in another country

It gets REALLY messy when you live in another country, but continue to draw all your income in the USA. Then there is a serious risk of the USA AND the country of residence both wanting to tax you, and the double-taxation treaty be damned. That has been my situation for the past 12 years, and the situation STILL hasn't been resolved.

[shrike3]

3. Wish I could do the same.

A friend has dual citizenship; he says it's his ace in the hole. An acquaintance is seeking Canadian citizenship on her mother's side.

[cherish44]

6. Looking into Canada but I'm guaranteed Luxembourgian citizenship through my bloodline :)

nt

[shrike3]

7. You are fortunate. All the best.

[PortTack]

29. Ireland is the same. Just prove a bloodline no matter how far back and you're good to go

[Native]

39. Can't go back any further than grandparents.

[PortTack]

56. Actually I have it from an Irish citizen that you can.

[Native]

88. I'm an Irish citizen. I went thru the process 8 years ago.

[Celerity]

128. They gave you incorrect information, it is grandparents only, with 2 VERY narrow exceptions for

great-grandparents, and one of those requires you to already be legally living in Ireland for at least 3 years and is strictly at the Minster for Foreign Affairs' discretion.





https://www.dfa.ie/citizenship/born-abroad/registering-a-foreign-birth/

[treestar]

77. only to grandparents

great-grandchildren only if their parents claimed the Irish citizenship before their birth.

[Native]

90. My kids gave me so much crap about that.

But before they were born I wasn't even thinking about it.

[treestar]

135. I didn't give her too much crap

but I too could have claimed it had mother done so before I was born!

[TxGuitar]

93. Not true

Have to have a parent or grandparent who is/was an Irish citizen. Or have buckets of money

[walkingman]

5. Congrats - your lucky

I wish I had done this decades ago. The handwriting has been on the wall for a long time. Too old now but I am telling all of my family (especially those just starting their careers) to pay attention.

This nation is not the best on the planet.

[GoCubsGo]

8. If you don't feel freedom and democracy are worth staying and fighting for,

by all means, give up and leave. Don't forget your white flag.

[cherish44]

9. A white flag with a big W on it

Go Cubbies!

[GoCubsGo]

10. Nope. Just a plain white one.

[panader0]

12. I agree with you. More and more Democrats and many DUers are planning to leave.

If those people want to live in a better country, they should stay and fight to make this country
better. But no, gotta run away. Not much fight in some people. The more people that leave, the
more difficult it becomes for those who stay. As Zelensky said- "The fight is here, I don't need a
ride, I need ammo." I am not advocating for actual ammunition, but for votes. In general, there
are few countries without their own problems, and many who either won't let you in unless you are
wealthy or have some needed talent. To those who abandon the US, I say adios, we'll do it
without you.

[GoCubsGo]

20. Yep, we're better off without the ones who want to run away.

Kind of sad to see so many of them, though. They just play into the stereotype of the Left being "weak and soft."

[panader0]

34. The ones who leave can hardly be considered "patriots".

[BannonsLiver]

46. Oh no!

You’re going to pull their “patriot card”?

[Hortensis]

42. There aren't "so many," though. At our age, we know a fair number

who've become expats for mostly positive lifestyle and economic reasons. Most have typical complaints, but we've never known anyone who talked about running away like this.

We also know a couple of families with members who who effectively abandoned any future duties to move overseas claiming to dislike the U.S., but they weren't exactly rocks when they were here. And disparaging as they were, they didn't run from what the OP imagines, although maybe they'd claim to now. Messaging keeps them in touch as much as anyone wants.

[treestar]

76. +1

give up all the time.

Oh the congress always goes to the other party in midterms - give up 2022 midterms

Oh we never get three terms in a row - give up thinking Hillary could win

Getting rid of the Electoral College would take a constitutional amendment, and those never happen - give up even trying to start it. (Good thing Elizabeth Cady Stanton did not think like that, as she did not live to see the 19th Amendment pass - but in 1848, she got started).

[PortTack]

30. There are valid reasons. The environment here is going to get really hateful if other privacy laws

Are overturned. I wouldn’t put kids thru that…no way!

[panader0]

33. If you are planning to go live in another country, I would advise to carefully check the laws

and cultural biases in that country. Do you think other nations don't have racism or homophobia
or misogyny? Will you have a voice in that country? Is it cheaper to live, or is money no object to you?
In spite of all of it's warts, the US is my country, and I will never go live elsewhere---vacation maybe,
but I will stay.

[PortTack]

58. And that's fine. Others who choose to leave should be left to do so and not bashed for doing so.

Your advice is well explained for anyone choosing to move.

[treestar]

78. +1

why assume the other country is without flaw?

[LudwigPastorius]

44. Would you have looked on the Germans who emigrated in 1930 as weaklings?

I have no immanent plans myself, but I am learning about what it would take to get out.

Two national elections in the next 28 months are all that stand between the country as it is now (which is pretty fucked) and as it could become - a total fascist authoritarian regime.

[treestar]

75. And many like me don't have that option

so they are just leaving us to twist in the wind?

[cherish44]

95. I'm too old for this

This country is effed and it's going to be effed for another generation minimum. I'm 55 and want to live the rest of my life someplace not effed. I fought the fight. I'm done. Keep the fire in your belly as long as you can. I'm just done.

[SoCalDavidS]

16. This Country Isn't Going To Fight For Me Or My Beliefs

I'm EMBARRASSED to be an American. We're a shameful nation, and some of us simply don't want to be associated with that any longer.

Look at our history. We're hardly this beacon of "freedom" or "democracy."

I'm 56, and do not want to live out what remains of my life fighting for something which is clearly headed in the opposite direction, with NO signs of abatement. This is going to be a right wing court for perhaps the next 30-40 years.

America does not represent my values, and if I travel around the world, I'm ashamed to say where I'm from. We're officially a Shithole country, and AT LEAST 40% of the population are Shithole humans. The way we responded to the Covid epidemic, and the amount of people who voted for TFG in the last election, confirm that.

There are plenty of other countries that function normally, and with compassion, where the citizens don't have to rise up on a daily basis to ensure their Democracy remains intact.

Between the daily mass shootings, the abortion ruling, and all of the rulings yet to come, if I can at all help it, I'd rather not stick around to see what's going to happen next. I likely won't be going anywhere while my parents, who are in their 80's, are still alive. But if I had my choice, I'd be gone before the next election, as I fear either TFG or DeSatan have a better than fair chance of taking over what remains of this so-called "democracy."

[GoCubsGo]

18. Don't let the door hit you...

[SoCalDavidS]

21. I Respect The Germans Who Left Germany In The Mid-1930's

Sorry that you feel people should continue suffering in a Shithole country that couldn't care less about their existence.

Silly me, preferring to live out my life in a country that respects a woman's choice. A country that doesn't have mass shootings on a daily basis, yet continues heading even further in that direction. A country where people refuse to wear a fucking mask, or get a fucking vaccination, to save the lives of others. A country that values other races, religions, sexual identity choices.

[GoCubsGo]

24. And, yet you are prepared to walk away from the "Shithole" yourself,

without lifting a finger to change anything. Take your rantings elsewhere. I'm not interested in them. Good day.

[SoCalDavidS]

27. I'm Not Alone

Hardly the only person on DU who is thinking that way.

Lifting a finger changes shit. The Supreme Court & Congress couldn't care less about protests or letter writing, or even voting, since so much of this country is gerrymandered.

Whatever. Good Day to you as well.

[BannonsLiver]

50. +1

Always interesting the jingoism that gets vomited out any time someone points out America’s flaws and dares to say they might be happier somewhere else.

Lots of echoes of what I was told right around March 2003 when I opposed the Iraq war. That was pretty much support the troops, love it or leave it or get the fuck out. Not sure I expected that here though.

[meadowlander]

109. There's nothing effective that you are doing to "fight for" America

that I'm not also doing as an American citizen living in another country. I can still vote. I can still donate to democratic candidates. I can still call out right wing bullshit online. I still follow American politics. I can even still go in person to marches on most issues as the major ones have demonstrations here to.

The only actual difference is I have single-payer healthcare, six weeks mandatory paid vacation a year, unlimited sick leave, a 37 hour work week, a house I can afford, and neighbours who aren't hateful jingoistic know-nothings with access to AK-47s.

I left the US permanently in 2003 when Bush invaded Iraq and it was the best decision I ever made in my life. We only get one life to live and we should spend it in a place that aligns with our values. It became very clear to me almost 20 years ago that that was not the US.

But pretending that that's "running" or "giving up" or "not fighting" is a false dichotomy. There's such a thing as dual citizenship and living somewhere else doesn't mean that you can't also make a positive difference in US politics.

[treestar]

79. that was a lot worse

[BannonsLiver]

47. I imagine Lee Greenwood blaring as this was typed.

“Byyyy gawd love it or leave it son!”

[treestar]

83. then the irony is doing it

don't we resist that from the right? Then it's showing that they are obeying the right wing by leaving.

[Celerity]

137. +100

[area51]

37. As an added bonus, you'll get healthcare as a basic right,

something which I don't believe will ever happen in the US.

[BannonsLiver]

48. It won't happen, nor will actual gun laws that matter

The founders set us up for minority rule in perpetuity and here we are.

[Tommymac]

52. The Country is NOT going to fight for you. YOU fight for Democracy, Freedom, and the Constitution.

Or YOU give up and walk away, leave, etc.

Countries are inanimate political divisions - they can't do a damn thing on their own. They don't fight. They don't tax. They don't establish Human Rights. They are not animate.

Freedom is not Free. It costs blood, sweat and tears. And a bit of elbow grease, fortitude and a whole bucket full of patience.

I understand wanting to leave, just don't blame a 'country'.

Sincerely wishing you good luck with whatever you do.

[ck4829]

123. Time for a little [redacted]?

[Native]

40. I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

It's one thing to fight for your country, but you also have to be able to afford to live here if you want to fight.

[48656c6c6f20]

61. You go down with the ship

And make sure to wave your Stars and Stripes as the ship is sinking.
I'll take my white flag and go wave it in at least 30 other countries that are currently better than the USA.

[GoCubsGo]

65. Buh bye.

[gldstwmn]

66. It's not for you to decide. You don't know what people's situations are.

I've never seen anything like this in my lifetime and we don't know how bad it is going to get. If people think they need to leave for a while or forever for their own safety then they should be able to do that without reprisal. Once they finish taking all of our rights away from us what do you think is going to happen next?

[GoCubsGo]

67. Y'all are free to leave.

Nobody, myself included, is telling you that you can't take your defeatist attitudes elsewhere. Good bye.

[Mysterian]

115. It's a big world with a lot of nice places to live

If you feel anchored to one place for some reason, that's your deal. Other people might like to live somewhere else.

"Defeatist attitudes" - LOL.

[treestar]

84. state an opinion, get one back

a belief that it's overwrought is also able to be expressed.

[gldstwmn]

98. "Don't let the door hit you" is not elevating the discussion in any way.

[ck4829]

122. Alright, fight for them. No more "*Sigh* we don't have the votes"

[cherish44]

11. It's my white flag and I'm putting a W on it. My flag my choice.

Go Cubbies!

[dameatball]

13. I can afford to go. I refuse to. Simple.

[Hortensis]

43. Us too. Our DIL's a Danish citizen and could still take us all there,

even has a big family/social circle to absorb us into, but... It's a great place and people to visit, and I'd be up for another adventure for positive reasons, but we feel a duty here we have no wish to abandon.

I've always felt like a citizen of the world, but that doesn't mean no responsibilities to the nation I grew up in.
If the worst happens and we aren't able to bring our nation back while we're still here, we expect our children and grandchildren to do it. We have a responsibility to the people we live among and hope they'll always feel it also. They're looking good so far...

[dameatball]

73. Exactly. My adult children and grandchildren have (and are) growing up in this world/nation we

have left them. I can't just leave them here because I think things are f'd up. Honestly, if the USA somehow disintegrates or goes under the repercussions will be felt around the world for a long, long time. I can't think of a worse time in history for like minded people to give up and leave. Hell, Randi Rhodes was even talking about getting out yesterday on Free Speech TV. That stuff is the last thing we need.

[Hortensis]

74. "I can't think of a worse time in history...to give up and leave."

Absolutely. All so well said. If those repercussions happened, of all the places we could afford to be, I'd expect the U.S. to be among the safest and least affected places, as it always has been.

[treestar]

82. also it would get worse

if the liberals left in enough numbers, that's like ceding or surrendering to the right wing.

[Hortensis]

131. :) Yes, it sure would be. MAGAs would no doubt love the idea of liberals fleeing,

just the thought of anyone doing it would give them hot fuzzies.

Right now they really need to be concerned that breaking the nice things we've created for ourselves will cause the vast liberal and moderate conservative mainstreams to come back together to fix it, and with it the problem of them.

[LakeArenal]

15. We didn't move to Costa Rica because of politics

It I am sure glad we did. Now after a couple years we have legal residency. We never have to go back to US. We still can vote. But never have to return.
Yay.

[SoCalDavidS]

17. I Keep Hearing About Costa Rica, So Will Have To Include That On My List Of Options

So far I have Denmark, Portugal, New Zealand, and I think in the next 3 years, I'll be exploring options, so if/when things go sideways in 2024, I'm somewhat prepared.

[LakeArenal]

19. Ironically, it's a Catholic country. State Religion even.

Since 1971, Costa Rica's Criminal Code has recognized the right to an abortion when it poses a danger to the pregnant woman. It requires that the woman give consent and that the procedure be carried out by a health professional.Dec 5, 2020
https://ticotimes.net › 2020/12/05
Health Ministry approves protocols for therapeutic abortions in Costa Rica :

[SoCalDavidS]

23. So, Only In Cases When It Poses A Danger?

That doesn't sound like Pro-Choice to me.

[LakeArenal]

26. You aren't seeing it as a Catholic Country.

There is a respect there for the life of a woman. Not a fetus.

Doctors claim all abortions are for the health of women. We know they aren’t.

[PortTack]

31. Good on you LakeArenal 😉😉😉😉

[LakeArenal]

36. Gracias.

[Crunchy Frog]

91. I may PM you for information at some point if it's OK with you.

Costa Rica is definitely under consideration.

[LakeArenal]

133. Please do. More than one has already.

Visit and we’ll show you our part of CR.

[moonshinegnomie]

106. ive considered costa rica

and panama..
the us is becoming more and more of a shithole country every day and my 60 yr old ass is tired

[LakeArenal]

134. Panama has some advantages over CR

Like speedier residency status. But of course people choose one and the soccer rivalry is like the States football.

PS. Costa Rica is doing well and headed for the World Cup

[MurrayDelph]

32. My wife is looking at houses in Spain

Puerto Ricans can get Spanish citizenship after two years residency.

And I'm looking into Czech Republic paperwork, as my dad was born in Czechoslovakia.

[eShirl]

41. ancestors not descendants

[cherish44]

55. ooops yes it's ancestor...more of a typo than not knowing the correct term....

I'm getting the paperwork in regards to my Luxembourgian ancestors. I'll have to travel to Luxembourg to complete the process of getting dual citizenship. I can live, work, retire anywhere in the EU when I get my passport.

[Retrograde]

45. You picked the right ancestors

The country mine claimed is even more draconian that the US wrt abortion rights (among its other problems).

[shanti]

86. You're a Californian, right?

I am as well. I can't think of a better place to be at the moment and besides, all of my kids live here too.

[nini]

49. Really? My great grandfather was born there

OHHHHH

I was trying Portugal but they only go to grandparents.

WOW..

[cherish44]

60. You would definitely qualify

For me it's I believe a great great great grandparent. My sister got the all the documentation to get her dual citizenship. Luxembourgian citizenship grants an EU passport which allows you live, study, work and retire in any country in the EU.

[nini]

62. you have no idea how happy I am to learn this

I'd rather live in Spain or Portugal (I'm part Portuguese also) so this is a great solution!

Thanks cousin!

[cherish44]

68. Luxembourg is a small country so we probably really are cousins! :)

[nini]

71. Definitely :D

I told a coworker once about this - he is a native Germany and he was all excited. He said he rarely meets people with roots from Luxembourg because of the size.

[ecstatic]

51. Unless you're offering the rest of us a lifeline

or a way out, why come here to brag about it? Seems kind of cruel.

[cherish44]

57. If there is any way for me to be able to sponsor anyone wanting to come over

I'll do it

[Jedi Guy]

53. I immigrated to Canada in 2012. Best decision I ever made, for so many reasons.

Over the last ten years I've watched as the States has descended further and further into utter lunacy and I have never once regretted my decision to leave. I get homesick sometimes, of course, and there was a time when my wife and I considered getting her green card so we could be closer to my family, but we've dropped that idea like a hot potato.

Best of luck to you in your exodus!

[gldstwmn]

54. I can do the same with Ireland but then I ask myself what the hell would I do there?

I keep wondering how bad it's going to get.

[cherish44]

64. My sister and cousin both got their dual citizenships during Trump's presidency

They both still live in the US and retain dual citizenship. They just have an additional EU passport now and can get the heck out of Dodge if things really go to hell.

[FreepFryer]

63. If they leave the country, expats should just drop their opinions of the US at the border.

After all, they aren’t worth standing for.

[cherish44]

94. Nope. I'll still have US citizenship and will chirp all I want

Don't have to listen to it but can't stop me from chirping. I just want to live in a place with no guns, universal healthcare and no Trump 45 cultists. Not gonna happen in this country in my lifetime anyway. I'm 55.

[FreepFryer]

97. Good luck but you will find right wing reactionaries in any country to which you flee. Smh. (Nt)

[meadowlander]

110. So you want fewer people voting for Democrats...

Good luck with that then.

You do know it's entirely possible to "stand for" your values and actually live somewhere else?

Name one effective thing you are doing to "stand for" democracy in the US that I am not also able to do living overseas with US citizenship.

[FreepFryer]

112. That makes zero sense. (Nt)

[Mariana]

113. This may shock you

but US citizens who live in other countries can vote in US elections. Yes, it's true. There are these things called absentee ballots and US citizens who live overseas can use them.

[FreepFryer]

124. I'm well aware! Does nothing to fix the patent illogic of their prior statement - Thanks tho! n

[DFW]

126. The "love it or leave it" crowd was never very good at nuances.

I left the country many years ago for two very good reasons. My outfit needed someone on station in the EU with my skills who spoke many European languages and could interact well with our European offices in their own languages (I speak 9) during EU office hours. Also, my wife, who is German, doesn't want to leave Germany as long as her mom (who will be 95 this year) is still alive.

Though the Germans granted me residency with very little bureaucracy (almost unheard of in Germany), I retain my US job, my US citizenship, and my US/Texas voting rights. On my visits back to the USA, I still meet with Democrats about current issues, including with members of Congress and the occasional former president--during Obama's second term, with the sitting president. They ask me regularly for my views and suggestions about the EU, especially countries I know well. The LAST thing they want me to do is to drop my opinions at the airport when I head back over here. As an old (very old--would have turned 100 this December) friend of mine used to say, 'nuff said.

[FreepFryer]

130. Guess we disagree on the "nuff said" moment. It's when they walk away from their countrymen. (Nt)

[DFW]

132. And to repeat

People move abroad for a myriad of reasons. I already laid out mine. I dare anyone to accuse me of "walking away from my countrymen."

If these pics of me, taken after I was spending most of my time in Europe, constitute "walking away from my countrymen," then you and I are not using the same dictionary:

[FreepFryer]

136. Awesome. Did you leave for the same reasons the Op did? Because that's the kind of expat

To which I refer.

Nice pics tho

[DFW]

139. I left for work and for my wife

The OP isn't an expat yet, they are just contemplating it, so we aren't even in the same category. As the few pics from my files attest (I hope), I keep my contacts up with Democrats on the home front as much as I can. We leave for the USA for vacation (KLM willing) in a couple of days, then down to Washington to hang with my brother and meet up with a few friends (more about that in the second week of August). Living abroad doesn't mean living in exile or out of touch. If you travel as much as I do, no country is really farther away than the nearest intercontinental airport, and in the case of the northern part of Düsseldorf, that means about 16 minutes.

[FreepFryer]

140. You keep making all kinds of statements in response to things I didn't say or ask

But I do appreciate the sharing of your story.

You don’t seem like the type to harp about your shithole birthright when abroad, no matter how tough it gets back home and how little such critique helps anyone here.

[DFW]

143. I am already considered sort of an unofficial ambassador anyway

When the USA fucks up, I don't play it down, and where we're better, I don't play that down, either. I am foreign to any "birthright" stories anyway, except for my daughters' claim to both US and German citizenship, which was theirs from birth.

When I'm in Barcelona, I speak Catalan. When I'm in Zürich, I speak Schwyzerdüütsch. When I'm in the Netherlands, I speak Dutch. It's only a one on one from the private sector, but the people here are thrilled as hell to hear an American who cares enough to learn their language if I'm going to work with them.

Blinken speaks French well enough to go on French talk shows. Compare that to the boors Trump sent around the world. No one outside of the USA gives a rat's ass who waves the flag back home. When Trump came out with "America First," the world yawned and said, "so what else is new?"

There is a big wide world out there, and they all want to know if the big bad USA cares. I tell everyone who will listen that we do, much as that meets with disbelief when the Republicans are in power. I was actually casually asked early in 2016 if I would be interested in the post of Hillary's Ambassador to Germany. I said probably not, for a couple of reasons, but if she called and said "please" I would have had to think about it again.

As for people who want another passport, for whatever reason, I say if they want it, go for it. It's their business, not mine. We briefly had a woman working for us who met some guy in Brussels and wanted to stay there. We couldn't get her a visa or a work permit. She found out that one of her grandfathers had been born in Luxembourg after Jan. 1, 1900, and had come over to the USA as a baby. She did her homework, waited out the cumbersome bureaucracy, but, after a year of peprwork, got her Luxembourg passport. She is now living and working legally in Brussels. Whatever floats her boat. I have my residence and my work permit--that's all I need. American I was born, American I remain.

My grandfathers were both born in the USA. One was born in South Carolina, the son of a poor tailor. The other was born in New York City (or somewhere on the way there), descended from deadbeat Mississippi riverboat gamblers who fled north to escape their debts. Not exactly the greatest birthright to fall back on, right? So, not intending to live and work in the People's Republic of Mississippi, I went through normal channels to get my residence and work permit here. Being married to a German citizen, having a steady job, and not needing any money from them, plus speaking their language with close to native fluency got me my work and residence permits a lot quicker than any birthright claims, anyway. I think they wanted the tax money ASAP. Their outstretched hands were there within days of my permit arriving, anyway.

[Old Crank]

72. During the plague

I sent in the papers to see if I was still Canadian.
Turns out that I am.
Currently waiting for German permanent residency papers to clear. It has been 2 years waiting.
Will think about the Canadian passport when that little glitch gets finished.

Look at my post under the tax issue for some thoughts.

[DFW]

119. German permanent residence is a crap shoot

I applied in a city where I don't live, because they had eliminated the one in my town. They were woefully incompetent. They were used to asylum seekers from Russia or the Middle East, had no idea how to deal with an American. One border official even asked "what in the world would you want to come here for when you can live in the USA?" How's THAT for a different perspecive?

The bureau responsible was eventually restored in my town, so I started the process anew, and had my permanent residence card within two months. Now, I DID do a lot of homework in preparation. I had both American AND German marriage certificates, proof of medical insurance, a clean checkup, proof of financial solvency and a steady job dating back decades. They recognized that I needed no languge training. The only reason it took two months is that they had lost my original application halfway through.

Caveat--there are exactly TWO countries in the world that do NOT recognize residence-based taxation. I.E. even though you live and are taxed elsewhere, you also have to pay taxes in your country of citizenship. One of them is Eritrea. The other is the USA. The accountants' fees and the double taxation are murder. There is a double-taxation treaty between Germany and the USA designed to prevent double taxation, but it was last updated years before many new things came into being (S-Corp income, Roth IRA). This has meant, on a practical basis, that on much of my income, the USA wants to tax me at 40% and Germany at an additional 50%. Check with a good international accountant BEFORE you make any such move.

[Old Crank]

142. I hear you

My wife has her permanent residence card. But I am not employed. Then came the plague and our KVR essentially shut down. So I have a new application in the mix appended to the old one. But my visa has expired so I now have a Fictitious visa good until next February. I will need it to return from London next month.
The US is only supposed to tax your income if you don't pay enough to the German system.
Last year my tax guy here cut my German taxes down. That raised my US taxes a bit.
Have friends in der Schweiz and they get almost nothing charged for their tax, pkus a wealth tax but the US bites them.

[treestar]

80. why, if you are in a blue

state. Why not move to a blue state if in a red one?

Or better yet, a purple one, to help that state turn blue.

[Demsrule86]

81. Why bother to post this? I really don't get it...doom and gloom. Europe has one of the

bloodiest histories ever.

[Hekate]

85. Sticking around in the Pacific Bloc here, the Blue Wall, California Central Coast area...

We’re heartsick at what we see, but we’re too damn old to be going where our kids and grandkids have no intention of going. We’ll do the best we can for our fellow Americans in the time we have left.

All the best to you, and keep in touch.

[shanti]

87. Yup

I feel the same way. 3rd gen Californian, all family here.

[TxGuitar]

96. We would move to CA

In a minute if we could afford it. Housing puts it out of our reach.

[budkin]

89. I would if I could

But I have medically fragile family members.

[Violet_Crumble]

102. Come to Australia!

Okay, so it can be difficult to get citizenship unless you're in a field of employment that's sorely needed, but at least now our borders are open again, some who are thinking of leaving the US may be eligible. Plus you can get Australian citizenship and keep your US citizenship. I know for sure coz one of my friends has dual citizenship and votes in every US presidential election.

https://www.internationalcitizens.com/moving-abroad/to/immigrate-australia.php

Normally I'd tell Americans looking to leave the US to stay and work towards changing your broken political system, but I think it's just too broken now to fix.

Also, for anyone considering Australia, our abortion laws are done by individual states and territories, which is what the US has now gone back to. Big difference with the US is that abortion is legal in nearly all states, and extremism and RW religious crap isn't tolerated by the population where there's no gerrymandering and every person over 18 has a say. The recent resounding election loss by the RW govt proved that.

[JCMach1]

108. I can just take my wife and son's Kenyan citizenship... If they kill voting rights and

Loving v. VA you know where I will be...

[Raine]

111. Well if you dislike it here so much you should leave

we need people here who love and care enough about this country to stay and fight.

[GoneOffShore]

114. According to a guy I talked to recently, Luxembourg is crazy expensive to live in. However...

Get the citizenship, and as you will have an EU passport, look at Italy, France, Spain, or Portugal as your actual home.

[Shrek]

117. In the abstract, dual citizenship with an EU country would be cool

I have no intention of leaving the USA, but I love the idea of hassle-free travel within Europe.

[DFW]

120. Travel within Europe is already hassle-free

It is like the USA--once they let you in the external border, you are in. In a given month, I have to be in Spain and Switzerland at least once, and all over Germany, France, Belgium and Holland at least once a week. I don't think I've been asked for my passport at an intra-European border once in the last year.

My daughters have US and German passports. The big advantage for them is that they can reside and work in the USA and the EU whenever they like.

[mountain grammy]

125. I'm too old but I think you're wise.

I've advised my 5 granddaughters to look for opportunities elsewhere. Two have become nearly fluent in Spanish and will pursue language in college.

Christian oligarchs have been shaping American politics since forever, but they really got serious in the 50's. They've watched the social progress and they don't like it. Now six of them will rule our lives. I'll fight them to the death, but want my kiddos out of here.

[DFW]

129. EU citizenship doesn't necessarily mean you have to give up your US citizenship

It does mean you will have residency and work rights here. It also means the USA will require you to file a tax return on your worldwide income, no matter where you live, and no matter where else you pay taxes.