I can respect the "no exemption" crowd a hair MORE than the rape/incest exemption crowd

[NickB79]

At least the no-exemption prolifers are logically consistent, even though they're still despicably wrong.

Life begins at conception or fetal heartbeat, and you think it's murder afterwards? Then logically no exemption should be given for rape or incest, because that embryo is no different than one conceived in a loving partnership. "Murder" is "murder" (in quotes because it's obviously not really murder). My cousin is one of these guys. A Catholic with an engineering degree turned born-again Evangelical. Christmas with the family is....rough. He's a lost cause.

But the prolifers who think life starts at conception/fetal heartbeat, but try to sound moderate saying they're ok with exemptions for rape and incest? They're just fucking idiots all around, and have been REALLY setting me off lately.

I went off on one of these mouth breathers today at work when he asked me what I thought of all those women "overreacting" to the Roe ruling. I pointed out that just a few hundred miles away, South Dakota has NO exemption for even rape or incest. If those idiots ran the US, they'd be fine letting my 12 yr old daughter carry a baby to term if she were raped. He said that's too extreme, we still need exemptions for stuff like that. So I pounced. I told him he's clearly perfectly ok with "murdering babies" just like he accuses Democrats of, as long as he can give himself an acceptable excuse to do so.

Sorry, just had to vent a bit. But, I think this argument really hit hard. I'll remember it in the future.

[MiniMe]

1. I've even seen "life begins at ejaculation" lately

I kind of like that one, even though it is wrong.

[Jerry2144]

2. Life began about

4.5 billion years ago and has been an unbroken chain of cells since then

[uponit7771]

7. Unnn, using forced birther logic sperm shows more sentient behavior than eggs doesn't it? I mean ...

... forced birthers take any motion or action or ability to feel as being sentient so sperm fits right in there seeing

Sperm

1. Seeks out only one destination to burrow into, having a sense of where this destination is and how to get into it.
2. moves inside a human medium with pre-knowledge of how to move.
3. has a definitive lifespan

Hmmm, I think someone can use this

[wryter2000]

9. There used to be a comedy troupe in the Bay Area called "The Ladies Against Women."

They insisted that eggs and sperm were people, too, and young men killed thousands of them with their filthy practices.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. I feel the same way, honestly. If they believe it's murder, then in every case, it should be murder.

I also feel like if they're going to simply stand and pray outside a clinic while people are getting abortions inside, then they don't really believe it's murder.

[Vinca]

4. I've been thinking that, too. The ones who attempt at normalcy saying they are fine with

an exemption for rape, incest or anything else are actually saying they aren't "pro-life." They're all crazy, but the collection of cells is the same whether it's a rape victim or a person who just doesn't want to have a child and the craziest of the batch are at least consistent. Bottom line, this is 99% political positioning and/or religious nuttery.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

5. I respect the argument a tad more, as I've often said here

It's more logically consistent, and I'm a big fan of logic and proper (non-fallacious) rhetorical structure.

That said, I appreciate the SENTIMENT of people who think there should be a carve-out for these cases ... because women needing them is more important than my assessment of the purity of the logic of the mouth-breather at your work (as a general idea).

If that makes sense

I'll still give both 'classes' a ration of shit, because they're both wrong, and I can argue against both positions.

[RockRaven]

6. I don't. "Life begins at conception/fetal heartbeat" isn't a coherent biological statement,

so it cannot be part of a logically consistent argument. The thinking by that party is just as muddled as the other, albeit in a slightly different manner. And the cruelty or lack of empathy is greater.

[Freddie]

10. It's the complete disregard for the vessel, er, woman

Like we have nothing to do with it. Makes my blood boil.

[Freddie]

8. I've just been arguing with a man on FB

yeah I know…pointless
I’m trying to make the point that childbearing is far too physically dangerous to just be “expected” if the condom breaks. I posted an article about the very many dangers of childbearing. This asswipe tried telling me “stop being so gloomy about it” and “not all pregnancies are like that” and there’s “alternatives to abortion” (none that involve skipping the childbearing part). My response was it’s hilarious that I, a woman with 2 children, is getting *mansplained* about childbearing.

[yardwork]

11. Bingo! I've always thought that.

Their rationalizations are all lies.

[wryter2000]

12. I don't respect either of them

But I do love to point out that, if a fetus is a human being, who should care how it got there? Would they be okay with killing children who were the result of rape or incest?

Their whole point is that the woman didn't enjoy the sex.

[genxlib]

13. I agree with your take

But that moral relativism can be used against them.

Once they take that step in their mind, they are halfway to understanding that it a lot more complicated than the true believers want you to think.

If they have made the leap to "sometimes" then they are already pro-choice. They are just choosing who gets to make the choice. There is some wiggle room to make those people understand that there are all kinds of reasons to get an abortion and it just makes sense to stay out of the way.

I know people hate to give any ground on this but it helps to reach people with examples that move them.

[Bucky]

14. It's the difference between "I hate you" and "I sincerely hate you"

Not worth making the distinction, IMO. They still claim the right to police uteruses.

[alittlelark]

15. Do u know that this is your 17K post?

I miss most of my milestones. This was a great post for #17,000 !!

[maxsolomon]

16. Is the zygote responsible for the father's sins?

Binary thinking cannot be applied to complex subjects like procreation. But that's what the moral certitude of RTL extremists does.

If abortion is Murder, in all cases, what about the pregnancy that threatens the life of the mother? Is the fetus responsible? Can they be charged with attempted murder?