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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPeter Alexander of NBC is reporting both the limo driver and tRump's Security Chief
Last edited Tue Jun 28, 2022, 07:35 PM - Edit history (1)
are prepared to testify that the reported incident in the limo DID NOT occur. This was on Lester Holt's broadcast at 6:30. Stay tuned.
This actually goes along with a thought I had earlier today - that much of what Cassidy Hutchinson testified today was hearsay...things she was TOLD about, but didn't actually witness, i.e. limo incident, food throwing. She saw the aftermaths only and is relying on someone else describing the actual incidents. Don't get me wrong - I believe her as far as what she may have been told and find her credible, but this is a huge loophole in her testimony.
ETA: Affixing post #33 from below containing Alexander's later tweet:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16865053
sinkingfeeling
(51,490 posts)Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)her testimony about these incidents would not be allowed.
Samrob
(4,298 posts)dweller
(23,692 posts)But it was SS willing to testify it didnt happen
Roll the tapes from the Beast
✌🏻
harumph
(1,919 posts)harumph
(1,919 posts)Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)it did not happen.
GoodRaisin
(8,933 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 28, 2022, 09:55 PM - Edit history (1)
Seems pretty simple to have him testify about exactly what he said during that conversation. I dont believe she has a reason to lie about it.
Edited to correct that it was Ornato, not Engle, that had told Hutchinson about what Trump did in the car.
Stallion
(6,476 posts)Example:
A present sense impression, in the law of evidence, is a statement made by a person (the declarant) that conveys his or her sense of the state of an event or the condition of something. The statement must be spontaneously made while the person was perceiving (i.e. contemporaneous with) the event or condition, or "immediately thereafter." The permissible time lapse between event and statement may range from seconds to minutes, but probably not hours
Stallion
(6,476 posts)(2) Excited Utterance. A statement relating to a startling event or condition, made while the declarant was under the stress of excitement that it caused.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 28, 2022, 09:46 PM - Edit history (1)
She said Ornato told her that when Trump entered "The Beast" the president's heavily armored SUV limousine he still believed it would be possible for him to go to the Capitol. But when Engel told him they couldn't for security reasons, Trump had "a very strong, very angry response," she said she was told.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-january-6-committee-hearing-cassidy-hutchinson-mark-meadows-aide-says-trump-
Edited for typo.
GoodRaisin
(8,933 posts)get both of them to testify. Ornato in particular since he was the one who told her.
pecosbob
(7,547 posts)Haven't seen the article but it immediately smells like spin.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)Just_Vote_Dem
(2,820 posts)and what she was told.
But I'm sure the Orange Monster's friends will bellow loud about this to try and discredit her.
TheRealNorth
(9,500 posts)To try to discredit the J6 Committee. Spread some easily-disprovable shit that she was "told" had happened (thus getting her off from perjury), while mixing in some truth so that the Republicans could try to discredit everything.
I could see that happening.
Mme. Defarge
(8,058 posts)Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)the incidents. But her testimony is thus hearsay.
Mme. Defarge
(8,058 posts)are you suggesting they marked her for a stooge in case the needed a plant at some future date?
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)JoanofArgh
(14,971 posts)A lot of them are lawyers for gods sakes.
mcar
(42,439 posts)2 hours of damning testimony but sure, let's all fall for the "sources say" crap about one thing.
brooklynite
(94,911 posts)Takket
(21,677 posts)to be used as "evidence" in a trial. Only things she was a direct witness to would be used.
TheRealNorth
(9,500 posts)This is the court of public opinion.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)Court of opinion also says abortion should be legal. Tell that to Texas, Utah, etc.
Unfortunately court of opinion has no legal standing; what it does have is the voters ear.
TheRealNorth
(9,500 posts)Are you saying that if a Republican plant makes the J6 Committee look dumb, it doesn't matter because its not a legal proceeding?
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)Merely brought forward what was being reported on national news regarding Hutchinson's testimony.
Where do YOU get "Republican plant" from?
OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)and Trump wanting the armed rioters to be allowed to walk to the Capitol. I think the Beast tidbit is just icing on the cake. Not a game changer re the impact of her testimony.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)Sorry, that seems so minor in the scheme of things especially when theres no way SS would press charges.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)Just remember - they got Al Capone for tax evasion despite his more nefarious activities.
I say "Pile it on."
OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,503 posts)Trump would go to the front lines anywhere.
TheRealNorth
(9,500 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 28, 2022, 07:43 PM - Edit history (1)
Seems too sloppy to be sending threats by text also.
mercuryblues
(14,552 posts)throwing roses at his feet and bow down.
Remember what she said Ghouliani told her. J6 is going to be a great day. Trump is going to speak to congress and will look strong and powerful.
Mike Nelson
(9,978 posts)... seems weird that the committee would highlight an incident that did not occur! I would have made sure the incident happened, or leave it off my list of questions. The committee is full of intelligent people... how could this happen?
Lovie777
(12,390 posts)now they do - LOL
milestogo
(16,829 posts)crazylikafox
(2,763 posts)They supported Trump. Remember Biden replaced Trumps secret service detail when he came in office?
Just_Vote_Dem
(2,820 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)"C'mon, man."
Lovie777
(12,390 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)kentuck
(111,110 posts)She also testified that he was still very angry after he had returned to the White House.
It is safe to assume that he was angry while he was in the "beast". (limo)
I suspect they will be called to testify.
Tetrachloride
(7,896 posts)BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)Give me a break.
yardwork
(61,748 posts)riversedge
(70,413 posts)lots of comments but Peter has not responded back
@PeterAlexander
🚨 A source close to the Secret Service tells me both Bobby Engel, the lead agent, and the presidential limousine/SUV driver are prepared to testify under oath that neither man was assaulted and that Mr. Trump never lunged for the steering wheel.
5:24 PM · Jun 28, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
riversedge
(70,413 posts)agree.
Link to tweet
?s=20&t=hLtH3bjdU__nHLglKzwrYw
well they already cooperated according to the SS public statement so this is weird
Link to tweet
?s=20&t=hLtH3bjdU__nHLglKzwrYw
librechik
(30,678 posts)I would wait to see the corroboration before I leap to conclusions. Secret Service officially agreed with J6 presentation. Let them rebut. Or Engle and Ornato testify. Seems they already did? but not presented so far in testimony.
Hutchinson needs confirmation.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)That's as I stated in my OP.
Mr.Bill
(24,354 posts)unnamed source. For now I will go with person testifying on national TV under oath. For now.
Scrivener7
(51,075 posts)kcr
(15,321 posts)Torchlight
(3,400 posts)I'm betting 99% of the criticisms she's getting falls into that same space of 'empty assertion without fear of legal consequence'
Nevilledog
(51,268 posts)Come on people.... Don't help spread the misinformation.
Link to tweet
January 6th Committee
@January6thCmte
·
Follow
Today's testimony makes clear that Trump wanted to go to the Capitol with the armed mob, despite warnings not to do so from his advisors.
When the Secret Service ruled out the possibility, the former President erupted in anger in the Suburban he was riding in.
Watch on Twitter
12:36 PM · Jun 28, 2022
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)Sorry - generically using "limo" as shortcut.
Nevilledog
(51,268 posts)Remember when he had covid and made the SS drive him around the block? That's a Suburban and he's clearly in a place he could reach the front seat.
They're trying to discredit Hutchinson by saying he couldn't have reached it.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)has been described as "The Beast" (Cassidy H.), the "Suburban" (J6 Committee tweet), the "presidential limousine/SUV" (Peter Alexander), etc. Personally, I don't know one from the other.
Nevilledog
(51,268 posts)Link to tweet
January 6th Committee
@January6thCmte
·
Follow
Today's testimony makes clear that Trump wanted to go to the Capitol with the armed mob, despite warnings not to do so from his advisors.
When the Secret Service ruled out the possibility, the former President erupted in anger in the Suburban he was riding in.
Watch on Twitter
12:36 PM · Jun 28, 2022
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)if it was The Beast, a Suburban, or Cadillac Escalade. They all look the same to me. A video doesn't help that.
panader0
(25,816 posts)He was videoed getting into the car. Same seat he was in when he made the SS drive him around
the Bethesda crowd when he had covid.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)To me, it's a big black car - period (tm Sean Spicer).
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Like the millions sold across the country every year
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)"The Beast", the Suburban, the presidential limo, the SUV etc. all within the day's testimony by witnesses, the Press, and our own DUers. So I'm supposed to know EXACTLY what it is by seeing a few second clip of a car pulling away? Its a black car - a SUV. I called it a limo - BFD! From now on, I'll call it a CAR and leave it at that.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)why do you keep calling it a car?
Ya know what...I really don't care.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)You win...from now on, it's a VEHICLE. Happy now?
BTW:
/kär/
noun
a four-wheeled road vehicle that is powered by an engine and is able to carry a small number of people.
BumRushDaShow
(129,875 posts)Apparently 45 was NOT in "The Beast" but in a different (smaller) SUV.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)I called it a (generic) limo, and got blasted for that! It's a black car.
BumRushDaShow
(129,875 posts)Saw your post literally as it was being discussed on TV!!
(I think it was the Suburban - whatever was used during the COVID/drive around Walter Reed vehicle)
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)I'm a little shopworn at this point. Pardon my frazzle.
BumRushDaShow
(129,875 posts)Have been going non-stop since 4:30 this morning.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)Have a good night.
BumRushDaShow
(129,875 posts)Been a big news dump day.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,875 posts)2naSalit
(86,897 posts)Though we know it as one specific vehicle, it is much like AF1, Whichever vehicle the POTUS is in, is AF1 or in reference to the limo, "The Beast" because it is short and everyone knows what it means within the WH.
So that one was a Suburban, if you look at the lights and other features, you can see that. It has been explained by several sources now.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)I am not personally aware of the exact design of said car.
2naSalit
(86,897 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,354 posts)for the steering wheel. I can't picture that from the back seat of a limo.
The main thing I question is would Trump even know where they had to turn and which way to get to the Capitol? I doubt he's driven anything but a golf cart in the last 50 years. I mean I haven't given it a whole lot of thought, but it struck me as odd when I heard it.
H2O Man
(73,668 posts)what if she said the vehicle was dark blue and others testify it was actually an extra-medium dark blue? Wouldn't that be proof that the sky is falling?
JoanofArgh
(14,971 posts)Link to tweet
?s=20&t=uxTB2UW_dOulfJi_pEVxgQ
I doubt the Committee would question her about this , if they didn't have corroboration.
Demsrule86
(68,768 posts)Tree Lady
(11,527 posts)Are they in touch with others?
mcar
(42,439 posts)This is GOP pushback and, as usual, media is falling for it.
JoanofArgh
(14,971 posts)LenaBaby61
(6,979 posts)Generic Brad
(14,276 posts)She told the truth of what she heard, but they are focusing on a small, inconsequential and possibly inaccurate detail and using that as a basis to discredit her entirely.
I've seen this shitty tactic repeatedly from them.
edhopper
(33,651 posts)Peter Alexander
@PeterAlexander
·
Jun 28, 2022
🚨 A source close to the Secret Service tells me both Bobby Engel, the lead agent, and the presidential limousine/SUV driver are prepared to testify under oath that neither man was assaulted and that Mr. Trump never lunged for the steering wheel.
He didn't "lunge" he just leaned forward to grab it.
And he put his hand toward Engle, not "assaulted " him.
Clever word play in lue of a denial.
machoneman
(4,016 posts),,,a MAGA backing senior SS official is telling the truth? Subpoena the driver and agent now!
Bev54
(10,088 posts)Put them under oath first, but I suspect that the committee would not have put her in a public setting to say that if they did not have corroboration. That would be bad for all.
panader0
(25,816 posts)but she said she saw the broken plate and the ketchup on the wall.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)but would be considered hearsay in a court of law.
(noun)
LAW
the report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.
"everything they had told him would have been ruled out as hearsay"
Stallion
(6,476 posts)mauserk98
(8 posts)An altercation of that type is out of character for trump. He lacks personal courage. He's too cowardly to fire anyone face to face.
I took that piece of testimony with a grain of salt.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)tRump obviously has a bad temper - I wouldn't put it past him to threaten to choke another person while raging. I'd bet there's a wife or two (or three?) that knows that side of him, not to mention his spawn. Ask Jr. if daddy-o ever belted him.
Emile
(23,105 posts)mob was armed and told them to go down to the capital. This limo story is hearsay.
tishaLA
(14,176 posts)they're good visuals, but the real story is that he encouraged people to come to a riot, wanted the riot to be as hellish as possible by allowing people with weapons into it, never did anything to stop it, and did it so he could overturn the results of an election and engage in a coup.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)Personally, I'm finding all the testimony - no matter how small - to be important.
tishaLA
(14,176 posts)it's the catnip people like Peter Alexander, Maggie, et al chase so they can immunize the larger story by presenting a secondary detail as if it's as important as the plot to stage a coup.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)testimony, to be important. YMMV
tishaLA
(14,176 posts)Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)tishaLA
(14,176 posts)Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)uponit7771
(90,370 posts)Vinca
(50,323 posts)And while they're at it, I'd like the valet to testify about how many times he's cleaned up a temper tantrum mess in the dining room off the Oval Office.
allegorical oracle
(2,357 posts)the floor -- the valet told her that TFG had thrown it. Hearsay, but the J6 investigation isn't a court. Insofar as the driving incident, it's possible that some of the secret service agents are drumpf admirers who enjoy traveling to his resorts with him.
CNN now reporting the agents are willing to testify under oath that the SUV incident never happened.
Totally Tunsie
(10,885 posts)which is what was posted in the OP.
Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)answer.
Pleading the 5th on anything, after denying what Cassidy Hutchinson reported she heard, will immediately shatter their credibility.