To A N Y O N E for whom HRC wasn't good enough....

[Stinky The Clown]

….ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?????

[Skittles]

1. cue the guilty folk, whining we need to "move on"

yup

[inthewind21]

3. Yup

[questionseverything]

21. Belittling and berating the " guilty " may cost us the next election

Is that the goal?

[Skittles]

24. LOL

I'd rather concentrate on the people who failed to vote than beg people too blind to see what they were doing.

[questionseverything]

26. How is this funny?

We have 4 months to secure a large enough majority to fix all this shit

These “I told them so” threads only hurt not help

[Skittles]

27. people threatening to take the ball and go home

remind me of Donald Fucking Trump

DONE HERE

[bluecollar2]

47. +100...n/t

[Cha]

99. Thank You!

Save Our Democracy💙 in 2022 & 2024!

[paleotn]

57. Because many of them, if not most...

get all pouty and stay home during the general or vote for some jackass third party candidate. Not like they're very reliable to start with. One of the host of things I don't like about purists.

[Politicub]

30. I think the guilty should shake with shame about their

role in the hell that has been unleashed on our country with the election of Trump.

If they don’t feel contrite and want to do better, I have no desire to coddle them.

[mcar]

45. And the threats start

"Be nice to the 'guilty' or else."

If the events of the past few weeks don't have every Democrat and Independent and 3rd partier clamoring to vote for, donate to, and help elect Democrats, there is nothing we can say.

[Demsrule86]

65. I tire of the threats.

[iemanja]

73. How do you figure that?

You think they are such narcissists they put their own right to be egregiously wrong, without having to deal with their responsibility, over the country?

They claim their votes didn't really cost us the election but now insist if we don't coddle their fragile egos we'll lose the next one. Interesting slight of hand.

[betsuni]

74. The way they belittled and berated supporters of Democratic nominees?

Except that was way beyond belittling. It was vilifying and non-stop personal insults. This year the tactic is to encourage not voting rather than attacking.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

89. I am not moving on

Link to tweet

[Cha]

100. TY for Chanteezy, LMPV!

Save Our Democracy💙 in 2022 & 2024!

[Stuart G]

2. K & R

[TheRealNorth]

4. While I voted for Clinton in 2016....

I voted for Nader in 1996 and 2000. What's my punishment? You want to throw me into the shit pile too? Making people like me a villain doesn't seem like a winning strategy in 2022 or 2024.

[emulatorloo]

7. Then the OP isn't talking about you ...

Good on you for figuring things out.

[TheRealNorth]

13. My point is that there are probably some people that realize their mistake after 2016

And for those that didn't.. I guess I hope they vote D for Congress, Senate, and their state and local elections. If they don't, they are probably not progressives to begin with.

No need vilify them more.

[emulatorloo]

18. Well the loud ones on Twitter and Reddit are doubling down and not admitting mistakes

Obviously I know ‘loud’ doesn’t equal a ‘majority’. But the posts I’ve seen are blaming Democrats for what Republicans do and are suggesting voting doesn’t matter.

[TheRealNorth]

31. Some of them are still idiots...

And maybe some of them are bad actors pretending to be progressives.

[emulatorloo]

44. You are probably right. Thank you for replying. We definitely need to all stand together and GOTV

See you out there!

[SouthernDem4ever]

67. my thoughts too, I wonder how many russian bots are still on the social media systems

I wish we could just cut russia off completely. Ban all IP's of that country - if that's possible.

[Cha]

102. Selfish Twits.. & don't give a damn

about our Country, People, or the Planet.



Save Our Democracy💙 in 2022 & 2024!

[JI7]

71. Why not vilify them ?

[walkingman]

8. Nope - You learned a good lesson. A protest vote is meaningless. Our election

system comes down to a binary choice - it is as simple as that. Not voting or voting for a 3rd party is really a wasted vote - why bother?

[W_HAMILTON]

19. Yep. Elections are choices -- not referendums.

[Skittles]

20. problem is, when they make the wrong choice

WE ALL PAY

[Different Drummer]

35. ...

[inthewind21]

11. Ever heard the phrase

The guilty dog barks the loudest?

[W_HAMILTON]

15. I was raised a Republican and supported (but didn't vote for) Bush in 2000.

And I have come along far enough in my life that if someone wants to call me a fucking idiot for doing so, I AGREE WITH THEM. You know why? Because I don't identify as that person anymore. I am not some 20-year-old that was raised in a conservative household and had never voted before, but knew I was "supposed" to support the Republican. That person was me, and I was a fucking dumbass. I wouldn't need others to call me that because I AM THE FIRST to recognize it.

If someone hasn't learned from their mistakes in 2016, AFTER ALL THAT HAS HAPPENED, there is no getting through to them. Marginalize them like the idiotic dumbasses they are and go after gettable voters who rightfully realize the terrible catastrophe that has been inflicted on our country by not electing Hillary in 2016.

[bottomofthehill]

50. Nope but hopefully / thankfully you realize you wasted your vote and helped elevate George Bush

That kind of thinking is what helped to get us here. There is a point where realism has to kick in. Ralph Nader, Jill Stein, not real, just pawns pulling votes away from the better of the two real choices.

[TheRealNorth]

55. I guess that wasted vote was more important to you.

Than all the other Democrats I voted for in 2000. Thanks for reminding me.

[bottomofthehill]

59. Probably was. I spent 26 days working from Ocala to Orlando with the Gore campaign.

And then the last 10 in Tampa. Three year old daughter and 11 week old son at home with their mother. I thought it very important to elect a democratic president then and I still do now. Almost 40 days away sleeping on couches and staying with family and friends working 12/14 hour days in the Florida sun that I was not accustomed to. Thankfully it was October sun and not august sun, but yes, maybe it was more important to me.

[TheRealNorth]

76. At that time, I considered myself an Independent

So I felt no obligation to support the Democratic candidate. I was a free agent, baby.

[orleans]

93. thank you SO MUCH for doing all that. and thanks to your wife for taking up the slack at home.

it was so important what you did and how hard you worked. i had an endless appreciation of people who worked so hard for our party.

thank you, thank you, thank you.

[bottomofthehill]

95. My wife still amazes me.

She is my rock. Keeps me sane and stable. Coming up on 30 years of happiness.

[BannonsLiver]

54. God damn

I’ve made some bad choices in life but holy shit, that’s quite a bad choice bender in the 90s and early 2000s. Shudder to think who the choice was in 1992.

[TheRealNorth]

68. I wasn't old enough to vote in '92

But before my Dad (who was a union factory worker before he got layed off) corrected me, I was supportive of Pat Buchanan. You gotta realize that in my blue collar community, when they did a poll of the Senior class during the 1992 Primaries, the winner was David Duke. And this was in Wisconsin, not the South.

Outsourcing in 80's and 90's really devastated a lot of towns and cities in the Midwest. Not only did the factories close, but so did a lot of small businesses that the factory workers shopped at. Except for the bars - alcoholism really shot up. Add to that the Crack and cocaine-associated crime wave. So for people like me, Free Trade agreements were more important than Roe vs Wade, especially when the threat was less obvious and less immediate.
We felt that Bill Clinton's support of Free Trade was a betrayal. The promised job programs for retraining never really happened (or were never really promoted), and the costs of College Education began rising. I know a lot of people that ended up working for less whose kids did not qualify for Pell Grants or subsidized grants because you had to be really poor to qualify. That's just the way it was.

So I understand why some people voted for TFG or didn't vote in 2016. It should have been obvious that he was a con man, and I disagree with them, but to a certain extent I understand. I still have to try to explain why cryptocurrency, multilevel marketing, and other ponzi scheme-like ploys are all scams to my relatives. I know I will catch flack, but I think Hillary not coming to WI or MI in 2016 was a mistake, and i knew it at the time. Some of us in the Midwest are sensitive about being told we lack culture, we are "behind" on the music, or are "fly-over" country. I don't like the term "Rust Belt"- you might as well be saying I come from some shithole country. We can also be somewhat dismissive about people on the coasts. But by not visiting, Hillary reenforced that perception. Add to that the Russian interference, and someone in the FBI leaking the Huma Abedin laptop e-mails story to Ghouliani, that was enough to sink Hillary. I was being bombarded by all sorts of negative shit on social media, and it very much reminded me of the flood of negative advertising that preceded the Republican sweep in 2010 that persuaded Democratic-leaning voters not to vote. And of course, the endless coverage of the made-up Hillary controversies by the MSM. I don't think a few "consciously objecting" Bernie Bros made a difference.

If you want to still hate on me because of the way I voted for President in 1996 and 2000, that's your prerogative. But other than make you feel better, I don't see how that helps us win in November or 2024.

[Gore1FL]

75. DU has a way of refighting old wars.

Only instead of fighting the old enemies, we fight erstwhile allies. I've been here since 2001. It's a cyclical story.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

[W_HAMILTON]

113. If they didn't vote for Hillary, they weren't allies.

If they are STILL whining about Hillary and blaming Democrats for this, when it could have all been stopped HAD THEY FUCKING LISTENED TO US AND VOTED FOR HILLARY IN 2016 BECAUSE SO MUCH DEPENDED ON IT LIKE WE REPEATEDLY TOLD THEM, they are not even allies today.

[Gore1FL]

130. I used "erstwhile" as a modifier, as I recollect.

There was a lot of "Go away, we don't need you" going around at the time you speak of, too.

In any event, this expenditure of energy has been going on at DU for over two decades of my membership.

[W_HAMILTON]

136. The only people that those type of comments were said to...

...were people that were shitting on Hillary and other good Democrats. No one would turn away true allies, but they would self-proclaimed """allies""" that were shitting on good Democrats more than even more Republicans were.

And this "expenditure of energy" is necessary because this type of shit has been going on for at least two decades. When will people finally learn? Can they not simply view history and see what their irresponsible actions lead to? Why do we have to suffer two generations now because they can't learn from their past and continue to make their same idiotic mistakes?

[Gore1FL]

137. I was witness to it, but I didn't come here to argue about it.

In any event, this is a normal DU thread albeit unproductive. That was my original statement. I stick by it. I am not really concerned about other arguments you wish to have.

Have a great day!

[Beastly Boy]

37. Hillary will not run in '24. She said so. Joe will. He said so.

[Beastly Boy]

43. No problem. I was just responding.

I voted for her in '16, and I regret I can only dream of doing it again in '24.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

6. Control of the SCOTUS was on the ballot in 2016 as well as the fate of Roe v. Wade and VRA

Link to tweet

[triron]

16. But her emails!

So look at what we got.

[Arkansas Granny]

25. And I still get that gut punched feeling every time I think about it.

[Mickju]

41. I do also. It's sickening.

[mcar]

48. I will die being mad about this

Stephanie Miller.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

87. Same here

Link to tweet

[DFW]

51. If this wasn't obvious to a non-Trump voter who stayed home or voted third party

Then someone is missing at LEAST one digit in their IQ. Anyone who voted for Trump and now regrets Roe's overturning was never playing with a full deck to begin with.

I am not interested in hearing wailing over Roe from anyone who did NOT support Hillary in 2016, whether in the primary or in the general. Hillary DID lay it out in simple language, and in black and white.

No, it is not the fault of any individual one of them. But collectively, they bear much responsibility, and have only themselves to blame for Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Phony Carrot. To any woman living in an Inquisition State who wants an abortion and now can't get one in that state, they owe an apology and a moral debt they can never repay.

[Cha]

103. YES IT WAS & Too Many Shit Shows

said it Didn't Matter in the GE 2016.. freaking Big Bully Horns BJG was one of them & of course, Sarandon & Stein

Save Our Democracy💙 in 2022 & 2024!

[Hekate]

9. Amen

[sop]

10. Vote-shaming isn't a bad thing. Throwing away your vote, or not voting, is.

[Lovie777]

12. Shewarned us . . ..

and here it is.

[dem4decades]

14. Has Susan Sarandon told us how right she was recently?

[sop]

22. She only comes out before presidential elections.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

28. I just made the massive mistake of checking out her twitter feed.

Remind me not to do that again. Bad for my blood pressure.

She and all the usual fuckwads are there thrashing our party and making it clear they've learned nothing.

God damn!

ETA: And it is all Barack Obama's fault, in case you didn't know.

[Cha]

105. Freaking Whiny RF.. SS has her Big Fat

nest EGG.. she doesn't give a Damn about the Country, People or the Planet.. it's All about her Big Ugly Bully Mouth. The magats love her shit.

Don't Do That Again!

Save Our Democracy💙 in 2022 & 2024!

[iemanja]

72. Oh, yes.

She told everyone that's the overturning of Roe is the fault of Democrats for failing to codify it. She will go to her grave with blood on her hands.

[Demsrule86]

17. And to those who say had Hillary been elected it wouldn't have made a difference in the courts...

You are completely wrong and that is a bullshit excuse. I would have mattered.

[sheshe2]

23. Agreed, Stinky.

Obviously some don't care and want more of our rights on the chopping block. It includes the right to breathe fresh air as they attack the climate as well. The Scotus is corrupt and there is no end in sight for the damage they will do to all Americans.

They are out there every day trashing Biden and every other Democrat, not Republicans, Democrats. They are telling people not to VOTE!

I am tired of reading on social media and the demonetization of our party. I am a Democrat, always have been and have voted as such.

[inthewind21]

138. Amazing

How many complete idiots there are out there huh. "I'm not toing THAT I'm doing THIS because it suites ME". They do THIS, it blows up in their face, now "It's all your fault, DO SOMETHING!"

[flying_wahini]

29. I'm still with Her.

[Different Drummer]

39. Ditto. n/t

[electric_blue68]

96. Yup. It's infuriating!

[EndlessWire]

32. I fantasize

that Hillary runs for Pres in 2024, with Obama as her VP. I will vote for Biden/Harris, but maybe they want to step aside for a blockbuster ticket. There was no one more qualified in 2016 than Hillary.

It may not matter, because we are losing the Scrotus Wars. Time to reset, refigure, and get to it. NOW. We can't just sit here.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if many Repubs don't want that Hitler-like Trump, or DeSantis, running their lives? Even DeSantis is busy destroying Florida. What a shock it would be to discover that they are so bad that even Red states will not elect them.

The Repubs are the party that brought a golden statute of Trump to their meeting. This is who they are. Maybe some Repubs don't want that.

I cried when Hillary didn't win. I know I can't hope for anything, like a miracle. Still won't stop me from praying every morning for something good to happen. Every day it's something even worse. Although it is criticized, I say GOTV, help with donations, however tiny, and stock up. WE ARE IN TROUBLE.

I don't think that it is group hysteria. We keep getting told the current news. It isn't good. Now, we are being told that our SC is planning to rule that they get to make decisions on outcomes. Just who do you think they will vote in favor of?! They are turning into a kind of "sharia court," with the Party's viewpoint, not at arm's length from the Repub Party.

Expand the Court NOW. Get it done, Joe. It makes sense. Do it now. We may fail, but the timing is right. And, please impeach Clarence. Do it for me, Honey. The Doctor will understand.



#impeachclarencethomas

[mopinko]

33. i have a dear friend, a sister from another mister, who STILL defends her hillary hate.

we agree on every damn thing in the universe except hillary and bernie.

[GenThePerservering]

34. We have WAY too much work to do

to be wasting energy sniping at each other and saying "Told ya so! Told ya so!" We need to put our energies into the future, NOT the past.

[mcar]

49. The same types are running down Democrats constantly

and working to suppress the vote. We have to bring it up, shame them, and shout them down.

[inthewind21]

140. Correction

We HAD work to do and those who choose to lay on the sofa and play on twitter with the like of Susan Sarandon instead, need to be reminded. Often!

[CentralMass]

36. How many people on this board do you think there are who didn't vote for Hillary ?

Last edited Thu Jun 30, 2022, 09:56 PM - Edit history (3)

This is beating a dead horse.

In 2016 Hillary recieved 65,853,514 votes amd the Orange Anus got 62,984,828. In 2012 President Obama received 65,915,795 votes vs
Romney's 60,933,504.
Hillary and tRump both had historically low approval rating in that election and she still recieved nearly the same number of Votes as Obama in 2012. She lost in the electoral count in the rust belt. There were numerous reason why.

[Lancero]

83. Gerrymandering lost us 2016, but we don't want to admit that...

Because it doesn't paint our future chances as that much better.

Their has to be some disloyal group of boogiemen than we can blame for all our problems, because otherwise the alternative is that the system is either completely corrupt, or intrinsically broken.

[CentralMass]

92. +1

[inthewind21]

142. +1 huh

Explain what gerrymandering is for the class please.

[Tarheel_Dem]

94. What the hell does "gerrymandering" have to do with a presidential election?

[TheRealNorth]

97. good point

Maybe they meant the electoral college. Some people think of the electoral college as gerrymandering, even though it isn't (although the effects can be similar).

[Tarheel_Dem]

98. Well, "some people" should probably be a lot more careful when they toss out "buzzwords" they've...

only heard in passing.

[betsuni]

104. Like how "codify" is the new buzzword to blame Democrats, as in: "Dems could've codified

Roe v Wade anytime in the last 50 years but didn't care" and blaming President Obama and things like that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

112. Either Civics education is sorely lacking in this country, or we've got some interlopers dressed up

as progressives. No amount of explaining will EVER break through that "blame Pres. Obama & Dems" mindset. Any evidence to the contrary, is usually met with..."well, they had a supermajority". What the hell do you do with that? Keep explaining?

[betsuni]

116. Both.

Explaining facts is futile. Ironically the same people think that the majority of Americans are secretly progressives and all it takes is the right candidates and leadership explaining things to them and then they will join the working class revolution. Um...

[Tarheel_Dem]

123. Yeah, well we know all about the "secret progressive". Apparently, they're the ones who keep....

losing, and then their supporters take it out on the rest of us. Look no further than BJ Gray, Nina Turner, et al. They never miss an opportunity to tell us what screwups we are, but neither of them can seem to win a race for dog catcher. Go figure...

[betsuni]

128. It's always because of Teh Establishment rigging, corporate money and diabolical plots

wherein they will stop at nothing to thwart progress and progressives because "corporate Dems" are corrupt and only think about money. They must stop progressives because if progressive candidates run everyone will vote for them because there will be an alliance between left and right populists and the Democratic Party will be destroyed (why there MUST be a conspiracy when they lose). Republicans are rarely mentioned. No wonder members of this religion hate Democrats.

Recent Justice Democrats email:

"President Biden and Nancy Pelosi endorsed our opponent in order to stop ... Medicare for All, Green New Deal and real investments in her communities."

Things "would've been different if Pelosi ... and the establishment hadn't spent millions to stop a progressive woman of color." (They love implying that Democrats are the real racists, and when Nina Turner ran they did it without stopping to think that maybe that's pretty dumb when Turner's opponent was also a woman of color.)

"The establishment will do everything it can to defeat Justice Democrats. The establishment will spend as much money as it can to defeat us."

[Tarheel_Dem]

129. Let's hope this part is true....

"The establishment will do everything it can to defeat Justice Democrats. The establishment will spend as much money as it can to defeat us."

I would love to believe that we'll do everything we can to support mainline Democrats, across the board. "Justice Democrats" is merely a branding tool to raise that nasty old money they keep accusing us of loving more than life itself.

[betsuni]

132. Steve Bannon: "I believe we will destroy the Democratic Party as a national institution."

"A populist uprising of Hispanics, African-Americans and working class people."

These groups have a lot of help.

[inthewind21]

141. SMH

A buzzword learned but the user of said word hasn't the slightest clue what it even is.

[Tarheel_Dem]

146. Not a clue. But that doesn't seem to matter if one has a point or a soundbite to make. n/t

[Midwestern Democrat]

149. You could argue it might have some indirect impact - it certainly weakens the power of the party in

the state. The most immediate impact is that there are fewer Democratic elected officials in the state supporting the Democratic presidential candidate's candidacy. Ultimately, weakening the party at the state legislative/federal congressional level will weaken the party statewide - the party has a smaller bench of candidates to run for statewide office, the Governors the party manages to elect are handcuffed by Republican state legislatures, more people in the state are used to being represented by a Republican, and eventually the party might start suffering a decline in party registration - "on the fence" voters in the state might choose to join the winning side.

[Tarheel_Dem]

150. Yeah, sure. That's exactly what the poster meant.

[getagrip_already]

38. She was right. About EVERYTHING!

There are still those saying she was a poor candidate and that it was a bad campaign.

BS.

To those who see the error of their ways, and who will support our candidate, you are not the issue.

To those who still want their pony, f' off.

[mcar]

42. I have yet to see one admit they were wrong

Instead, they are blaming Biden, Obama, HRC, RBG for this. Note that they are not holding Republicans responsible either.

[Pepsidog]

52. For me the 2016 election was about SCOTUS. The day the news Comey

announced he was re-opening the email investigation I felt like a tractor trailer hit me. I wonder how Comey’s wife and daughter feel now. They were portrayed in a movie about him as devastated that he might be helping Trump win.

[FailureToCommunicate]

63. Agree. Wonder what rock Comey is hiding under these days.

Evil SOB.

[StevieM]

119. Comey screwed her over repeatedly thoughout that election.

He dominated the whole thing, from start to finish. Without his shenanigans we would have destroyed Trump.

[ms liberty]

53. Everyone knashes their teeth and beats their chest about 2016

When the real crime was in 2000. If everyone had voted for Gore, we wouldn't be here. That's the real actual time lots and lots of dems didn't vote for the Dem candidate. Far, far more than in 2016.

[SYFROYH]

56. HRC was good enough for me.

And I voted for her in the GE because Trump was easily identified as a menace in 2016.

[myohmy2]

58. I'm happy...

...Joe's better...

[Cha]

108. trump brought Fascism into the WH & our

Country.. and Appointed these SC judges.. and this is What Hapened. .

So there's NO reason to be "Happy" for Anyone Who Cares About Our Country, the People or the Planet.

Save Our Democracy💙 in 2022 & 2024!

[myohmy2]

117. agreed...

...

[betsuni]

109. How so?

[myohmy2]

118. there are...

...many reasons for 2016 and some of them are still with us today...

...if people can't or don't want to see, I can't do anything about it...

...I just do the best I can...

[betsuni]

122. Like what?

[paleotn]

60. That's damn right!!!

[Joinfortmill]

61. She would have been one hell of a President. But, no, we get the Mob Boss wannabe.

[keithbvadu2]

62. Ideological purity for single issues.

Ideological purity for single issues.

[progressoid]

64. I don't think people here understand how it wasn't just the Steins and Sarandons that

didn't think HRC was good enough.

I live in an area that leans slightly to the right but still voted for Obama twice. I took two weeks off to help canvas for candidates here as I did in '08 and '12. To say there was an enthusiasm gap between then and 2016 would be an understatement. The people I met that expressed reservations about HRC were not reading Sarandon's or Stein's Twitter page or watching The Young Turks or whatever other boogie man DU loves to hate. These were middle of the road, blue collar Democrats.

Among the reasons HRC lists for losing, I think she underestimates the role of the MSMedia, IMHO. The Clintons have been punching bags for a couple decades. https://www.axios.com/2017/12/15/16-things-hillary-clinton-blames-for-her-election-loss-1513305545

YMMV Obv.

[TheRealNorth]

86. I agree with what you said

If only the Bernie Bro's had such power to make Hillary lose.

We bled votes from non-college educated whites, especially non-college educated WOMEN. Not fucking Bernie Brothers.
And we still haven't fully recovered those votes in 2020.

[progressoid]

91. +1

[calimary]

66. No shit. Still just burns my burgers to think what we COULD have had.

The ultimate glass-ceiling-breaker against the big yellow pissant - who’s famous for lying and cheating.

[iemanja]

69. Hillary was too good for America

So we got Trump.

[JI7]

70. They ARE happy. They are happy Roe is overturned

[betsuni]

79. Owning the libs.

[Bucky]

77. Hillary Clinton ran a flawless campaign and is entirely blameless for her loss

Are YOU happy now??

[spike jones]

78. I'll say it again. all you that just couldn't vote for Hillary. FUCK YOU FOREVER. n/t

[GenThePerservering]

82. Not sure how that helps anything.

Put your energies into the future.

I hope Hillary runs again. Actually, I wish AOC was old enough, but Hillary is extremely competent in everything that is really required to run a country, particularly one that is in a holy mess like this one. Tough and smart.

[W_HAMILTON]

114. Fuck that.

Last edited Fri Jul 1, 2022, 12:59 AM - Edit history (1)

It helps by doing now what we should have been doing back then: being more forceful in pointing out how these idiots are fucking fools and marginalizing them and embarrassing them so that no one ever dares to think about listening to their bullshit ever again.

If THESE PEOPLE care more about their feelings than all the rights we've lost and the doomed course we've put this nation (and subsequently the world) on by pointing on their very huge mistake in 2016 that directly led to all of this, they haven't learned their lesson and they should be treated as enemies like we should have treated them more forcefully back in 2016 rather than just brushing them aside as whiners that wouldn't end up making a difference.

[betsuni]

121. Exactly, "we should have treated them more forcefully"

Hillary was right. "I felt like I was in a straightjacket."

[RANDYWILDMAN]

80. Damn shame, she didn't get the job

She was the perfect person for the times and the people involved and she has an edge that would have been great.

Fuck cheezy reality TV stars who win by 1 percent in 4 key states. Fishy as fuck

The popular vote should elect the president from now on.

[Lil Liberal Laura]

81. Point

She wasn't pure, but since I live in the real world, I voted for her

[betsuni]

84. That "lesser of two evils" thing was idiotic.

Wonder if Russia promoted it and Americans mindlessly parroted it.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

88. Sarandon is still happy that she elected TFG

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

134. Still waiting to know what all that "corruption" that made Hillary evil was.

Just saying the word "corrupt" was enough. Never got the whole "warmonger" thing either. Saying something makes it true in propaganda.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

135. I would like to know this also

[jalan48]

85. If folks don't get out and vote for Dems after the Trump shit show

Presidency I’d say we’re fucked. Blaming them will be meaningless.

[budkin]

101. They are incredibly happy!

[Meowmee]

106. They don't care

And will never admit what they did. They have my father’s blood on their hands.

[Grown2Hate]

107. I'm a little stoned, so bear with me... this may have

no point.

I remember posting here, as a Bernie primary voter (in AZ, no less... relatively late in the cycle). I just aligned with Bernie more, even though I respected Hillary and had ZERO qualms about voting for her in the General.

Once the primary was OFFICIALLY decided, I posted something to the effect of, "The Supreme Court ISN'T HYPOTHETICAL this time! There's LITERALLY a current empty seat!", and I remember (MAYBE falsely, I can't say for sure) being slammed for not being a "real" Bernie supporter, I was infiltrating... something? I don't know.

And I really came to be quite fond of Hillary during the Democratic Convention! Her story was SO compelling, and she'd done so much more (earlier in her career) than I'd even known about. I was suddenly EXCITED to vote for her; there would be no "nose holding", or any other such condescending bullshit.

And the 2016 Election just cemented in my brain that I WAAAAAY underestimated the sexism rampant in this country. Luckily, I'd taken the week off of work ahead of time... might have actually lost my SHIT on the two resident Trump Humpers (both female, ironically).

But, yeah. I think if you didn't vote in 2016, or protest voted, or even voted FOR tRump... you're redeemable IF you figured out what a MONSTROUS piece of shit he is by 2020. It's not ideal (since we got FUCKED on the Supreme Court meanwhile), but if you were a political novice and fell for the, "He's a great businessman! He'll clean up Washington!" bullshit, but figured it out and came around... OK. Join the team.

But if you did that KNOWING the consequences of the Supreme Court (and other ramifications)... then you're not.

I guess that's all? Sorry for rambling.

[betsuni]

110. +1

[867-5309.]

111. It's time to move on

and focus our anger at the GQP.

I suspect many on the left who didn't vote for Hillary in 2016 did vote for Joe in 2020. They realize what a mistake it was to help Trump win, even if indirectly.

My hope is our first female president isn't too far off. Kamala could certainly be that, or perhaps even someone like AOC.

[W_HAMILTON]

115. No, it's not time to move on.

It's more important now than ever to point out the MASSIVE ERROR in their ways so that it NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN and no one is dumb enough to ever put faith in anything they say about any other election ever. Marginalize them into irrelevance like we should have done back in 2016 to prevent this all from happening to begin with.

If someone is offended at that, they didn't learn their lesson from 2016 and still identify with themselves that stuck a shiv in our 2016 candidate's back and will inevitably be looking to do so again in the future.

[Stinky The Clown]

125. Tell ya what . . . . . there is PLENTY of anger for the GQP. THIS thread is about . . . . .

. . . . . what it says it is about. The anger for one group is not exclusive of anger for the other.

Do you see what's coming next USSC term? That will for sure end our Democracy and turn us into a fascist dictatorship.

[Bucky]

133. You're right. Unfortunately every time I mention Hillary Clinton

I continue to get eye rolls and derrogations from my non "yellow dog" friends, even 5 years after her loss. I mean, I'm sorry that she's such a flawed candidate. I voted for her. I phonebanked for her. I think she is a statesperson of unusually strong talents.

But has a politician she was uninspiring, made some strategic mistakes in asset allocation, and tended to come off a little phony. And from a marketing perspective she was damaged goods after Fox News and the RW media echo chamber had been consistently lying about her since 1991. It was absolutely unfair, but 25 years of deranged vitriol and baseless personal attacks still weighed down on her appeal.

I could vote for Harris. I would love to vote for AOC in 10 or 20 years from now. But as a party we need to realize that Americans generally want outsiders to come in and "shake up Washington" so much that we become easy marks for slick salesmen and faux good old boys. We should be looking at governors, like Whitmer of Michigan or (hopefully soon) Abrams of Georgia.

[inthewind21]

143. Great

You sufficiently "inspired" now?

[StevieM]

148. The final narrative on her campaign is what was flawed. This was not Dukakis 88 or McGovern 72.

Last edited Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:02 PM - Edit history (2)

It was not historically bad. If it had been, we would have heard all about it during the election. The media does not hold back when it comes to telling us how terrible she is. And yet this "worst campaign ever" wasn't seen that way until the end. With Dukakis and McGovern, and others, we knew it at the time.

2016 was all about what it appeared to be about at the time. It was entirely focused on the fake email controversy. James Comey dominated that election from start to finish.

Hillary was awfully popular, and well-liked, when she was Secretary of State. She polled in the high 60s for years, leaving office with 69 percent job approval, 66 percent personal favorability. But I guess all of that has been wiped out of the history books.

[Bucky]

151. Clinton's popularity ratings by Gallup

Clinton historically had two peak periods: after Bill's impeachment in the late 1990s and during her tenure as Secretary of State. But when she ran for president in '07-08 her favorable rating plateaued at around 50%. After she left the cabinet and began running in the '15-16 cycle, her favorables leveled out in the low to mid 40s and stayed there long after the 2016 election.



What you see consistently here is that when's not running for office, her numbers drop. Regardless of a lifetime of exemplary service to the nation, her core strength is clearly in getting things done and not in rallying the voters or closing the deal on a big win. She won the popular vote with 48%, but her favorable rating was significantly lower at 39-41%. That's people voting against Trump instead of for her. Yes, she was robbed by the Electoral College system, but that was a known quantity and she still didn't direct sufficient assets to the swing states that she and her campaign simply took for granted.

I'm not trying to relitigate the 2016 fiasco, but it's useful to illustrate my point. She ignored Wisconsin and focused her other Great Lake state efforts in the urban centers, ignoring swingable middle class voters. This is how she narrowly lost Michigan and Pennsylvania. In mid October she run a major campaign swing through California. This is simply bad asset allocation, especially when everyone knew those states were exactly Trump's pitch, strategy, and sole hope for winning the Electoral College. It misses the point to cherry pick her high standing four years earlier and ignore her subsequent popularity drop every time she threw her hat in the ring.

We're in for a humdinger of a loss in 2022 (although the Senate looks surprisingly hopeful) and potentially something worse in 2024. We need to assess our weaknesses honestly and support candidates who can win and keep the Maga movement out of power.

[StevieM]

153. She went to California to raise money.

She was not campaigning for votes there. It was Trump who was going to states where the race was either locked up for him, or he had no chance of winning. This was discussed in the media at the time.

Hillary may not have made a campaign stop in Wisconsin after the primaries, mainly because she was way up in the polls, but she spent more money there in advertising than Obama did in 2012 and she had a larger ground operation than Obama did in 2012.

Whatever she did would have easily been enough for her to win had it not been for Comey's multiple interventions into the race.

My point about her poll numbers is that her career had culimated in a great place when she was Secretary of State. Then she was swiftboated. There was nothing she could have done about that. If she did not have an email server then she would have been investigated for something else. 2016 was Comey's election.

For the record, she had a pretty strong campaign in the first 9 months of 2007. And her comeback in New Hampshire in 2008, after the way she was crucified for 5 days after losing Iowa, is to this day the most impressive thing I have ever seen in politics.

I agree that she would not be a candidate at this point because she was successfully swiftboated into oblivion. Not that any of this matters. Biden will be our nominee in 2024.

[betsuni]

156. Yes, the "bad campaign" only began after the election.

Ahead in polls and the polls weren't wrong, then Comey letter. Hillary was the most admired woman in U.S. for 17 years, but repeat how everyone hates her and history is erased.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

120. Susan Sarandon: Trump more likely to bring 'revolution' than Clinton

I was amused to see this CNN article show up in my twitter feed

Link to tweet

https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/29/politics/susan-sarandon-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/index.html

Susan Sarandon, a Bernie Sanders’ surrogate, says Donald Trump would be more likely to usher in “the revolution” than Hillary Clinton....

“Some people feel that Donald Trump will bring the revolution immediately, if he gets in. Then things will really, you know, explode,” Sarandon said, referring to the political “revolution” Sanders preaches about on the trail.

Hayes clarified that Sarandon was referring to the Marxist concept of revolution, in that Trump would create such a split in America that the upheaval would result in dramatic change.

Asked if that was dangerous, Sarandon trashed Clinton’s pitch that she’s a pragmatist, saying that the current situation in the country is unsustainable.

“If you think that it’s pragmatic to shore up the status quo right now, then you’re not in touch with the status quo,” Sarandon said. “The status quo is not working … I think it’s dangerous to think that we can continue the way we are.”

Sarandon, Nina Turner, Brie Grey, Eddie Glaude, Michael Moore and others are responsible for the loss of Roe v. Wade and the current members of the SCOTUS. The state rights election law case the SCOTUS accepted cert on today is a very scary case.

[iemanja]

124. She thinks like a child

when she is in fact a senior citizen. It's pathetic.

[Cha]

131. Sarandon's Hate for the Dem Party

Exposes what a stupid Dipshit she is.

Oh and Marianne Williamson is a POS, too

Save Our Democracy💙 in 2022 & 2024!

[eleny]

126. .

[Stinky The Clown]

127. ..

[CentralMass]

144. An interesting take on 2016. tRump And The Revolt Of The Rust Belt.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2016/11/11/23174/

[Progressive dog]

145. I hope that at least a fewl of those anyones finally

realized that the lesser of two evils is much better than the alternative.

[betsuni]

147. But Hillary wasn't evil. She was made into a fictional villain.

There wasn't a shred of evidence of corruption anywhere. She was the most honest of all 2016 candidates according to data. Most progressive platform ever which Bernie Sanders helped write. That she wasn't progressive, a corrupt corporatist beholden to Wall Street responsible for wars and economic decline and everything else bad was false. Her whole career was erased. All anyone had to do was a little research.

The Democratic nominee against a Republican is not the lesser of two evils. That's what the idiom means. Two evil very bad things. Saying Hillary was the lesser of two evils is calling her evil and same as Trump. Fucking ridiculous.

[Progressive dog]

158. No Hillary was not evil

but there seem to be a lot of people to whom people who saw no difference worth voting for between Hillary and TFG. Instead of admitting they were wrong, they are complaining that President Biden is not accomplishing the impossible as their votes or their refusals to vote make success impossible.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

154. Easy to go back in time to blame. But don't think there's a single

human who doesn't regret it if they didn't vote for HRC. Do you? I am sure they feel horrible. Who wouldn't? Adding fuel to that is just plain cruel.

[Silent3]

157. Given a choice between admitting personal error or going deeper into conspiratorial thinking...

...and other crazy rationalizations, it should be pretty clear by now that a good many people are far more comfortable with the latter.

[Hortensis]

159. Trust you're mostly right, L. These angry and frightened posts aren't

about those who regret though, but to call out the people without regret, both agitprop agents who continue what they did in 2015-2016 to splinter away support and poisoned water carriers.

The 2016 disaster is still ongoing. This and/or the 2024 election may be effectively our free democracy's last gasp, and DUers who realize what's at stake are really yelling "All hands to the pumps!"

And kick the "sarandons" in the teeth on the way to it.