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Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:47 AM

Will the youth of America be willing and able to stop fascism?

I saw a statistic the other day that suggests most on this forum average around 55 or 60, so not sure there are many under 30's that can answer the question or comment.

But my point is that I don't see the outrage or the energy or the willingness of young people to defy authority that we saw back in the 60's. That youth movement was without a doubt a major catalyst that set ht stage for all the great advancements that we saw, from the Civil Rights Act to the ERA, Roe vs Wade, EPA and so many other progressive changes.

Now that we see that the Fascist Right and their henchmen in robes in SCOTUS are rapidly moving toward undoing all of that, where is the outrage, especially among America's youth? Am I simply missing it?

One difference is that in the 60's we were a mere 20 years away from the Nazi catastrophe, and the memories were fresh. Have we forgotten (or never learned) how fragile democracy can be, and what the end result will be once we have gone under the boot?

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Reply Will the youth of America be willing and able to stop fascism? (Original post)
dwayneb Jul 1 OP
Irish_Dem Jul 1 #1
Cosmocat Jul 1 #35
Irish_Dem Jul 1 #38
PufPuf23 Jul 1 #39
LonePirate Jul 1 #2
dwayneb Jul 1 #33
Timeflyer Jul 1 #3
Xoan Jul 1 #13
NoMoreRepugs Jul 1 #4
dwayneb Jul 1 #37
Mariana Jul 1 #44
JuJuChen Jul 1 #5
hlthe2b Jul 1 #6
dalton99a Jul 1 #11
Fiendish Thingy Jul 1 #7
milestogo Jul 1 #8
Freethinker65 Jul 1 #9
dalton99a Jul 1 #10
Mariana Jul 2 #48
luv2fly Jul 1 #12
dwayneb Jul 1 #31
Lovie777 Jul 1 #14
ananda Jul 1 #15
Initech Jul 1 #27
Cosmocat Jul 1 #36
Initech Jul 1 #45
Mariana Jul 2 #47
Chainfire Jul 1 #16
hlthe2b Jul 1 #17
Chainfire Jul 1 #18
hlthe2b Jul 1 #19
Chainfire Jul 1 #20
hlthe2b Jul 1 #21
W_HAMILTON Jul 1 #28
Mariana Jul 1 #43
Sympthsical Jul 1 #22
Silent3 Jul 1 #30
Sympthsical Jul 1 #32
Silent3 Jul 1 #34
dwayneb Jul 1 #40
FelineOverlord Jul 1 #23
TheProle Jul 1 #24
dwayneb Jul 1 #29
Hortensis Jul 1 #25
Baked Potato Jul 1 #26
Joinfortmill Jul 1 #41
brooklynite Jul 1 #42
sakabatou Jul 1 #46
JI7 Jul 2 #49
ck4829 Jul 2 #50
uponit7771 Jul 2 #51
Maeve Jul 2 #52

Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:55 AM

1. 50/50 at best they they will fight back.

A big chunk of America seems to be numb, desensitized to violence and loss of rights.

Then seem to feel detached from society and government. They buy the propaganda sold by ruthless sociopaths who will stop at nothing for permanent power. Or they accept it and feel powerless to make change.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:46 PM

35. You assessment is correct but I would put odds at

About 5% they will fight.

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Response to Cosmocat (Reply #35)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:55 PM

38. I agree 50/50 is way off the mark.

But facing hard reality is sometimes seen as negative.
So I am trying to do a bit more happy talk.

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Response to Irish_Dem (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:58 PM

39. A big chunk of America is toxically mentally ill because of the churches and religious leaders they

follow.

Hard to predict the future but times look to be bad and uncertain, some ways perhaps terminal for what most of us considered the USA.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:57 AM

2. Not without a lot of violence and even that may not be enough.

Fascist leaders do not easily give up control once they have and they will typically utilize whatever means they can to maintain their rule. They will issue false claims of security issues or terrorism or they will wrap themselves in the flag or a devotion to a deity. They will use whatever means necessary to quell the rebellion. Their followers/cultists will stand behind them every step of the way as being out of power scares them more than anything once they have actually held said power.

There are some very dark clouds on the horizon for this country.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:38 PM

33. Sadly I think you are right

We've been lucky for ~250 years that no autocrat has taken advantage of the obvious weaknesses of our Constitution and the structural defects of our election system, Congress and SCOTUS. It's been a long run and a good one, but I agree with you that once the Fascists gain Power, they will not relinquish it without violence.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:58 AM

3. Young women will fight

The young women met at Bans off our Bodies are willing. Whether they are able--hope so. They understand the existential bodily threat that SCOTUS has imposed on them. Vietnam War was an threat to the lives of young men, and nothing gets your attention like a visceral, life-and-death, you-could-die, you-don't-have-a-choice and gov't-doesn't-care threat. Especially if rights vanish overnight.

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Response to Timeflyer (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:33 AM

13. +1


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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:00 AM

4. Our parents were the Greatest Generation. Our father's

and uncles and FIL All served and defended this country, love of country was real, sacrifice was a given. Today? Instantaneous gratification, participation trophies, believing what one reads on social media as factual seems to be the norm. Of course we have tremendous young people here and there - as a Group capable of taking over the reigns? We can only hope.

Just one old man’s opinion.

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Response to NoMoreRepugs (Reply #4)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:54 PM

37. My take on it too

But remember that the culture you describe was deliberately created by the Corporate State. For 60 years, they have been working to turn us into mindless drones that can be easily manipulated and milked for profit - not so different in many ways than the world imagined in the Matrix. They have worked for decades to destroy our critical thinking skills.

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Response to NoMoreRepugs (Reply #4)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 10:59 PM

44. It's a shame their elders did such a shitty job raising and educating them. nt.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:01 AM

5. like every generation, you got young people who care and those who don't

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:02 AM

6. 60's era also deeply influenced by Vietnam and the draft. Nothing like being sent against your will

to die in a conflict you don't believe in to focus the mind and motivate protest. And to think Nixon did not have some fascist tendencies (albeit minimal compared to Trump), one need only revisit the lies that kept us in Vietnam AND his murderous response to Kent State.

That said, the "children" of Marjorie Stoneman Douglas and other mass shootings and those dramatically dedicated to CHOICE and Climate Change give me some hope. But, I fear the dramatic numbers of youth and younger generations that are horrendously undereducated with regard to history, civics, science, and politics --while susceptible to the lies they read daily on social media-- to be beyond alarming.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #6)


Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:03 AM

7. Come to the streets of Portland if you want to see youth defy authority

Didn’t you see the streets of most major cities filled with young protestors after Roe was overturned?

Young voters are, in my observation, both activist on issues that matter to them and cynical that their votes won’t result in any meaningful change.

Young voters will not be told who to vote for; hearing a “take it or leave it” or “who else you gonna vote for- a Republican?” message is an invitation to stay home, or worse, vote third party.

Young voters are the most powerful untapped bloc of voters in the country- increasing their turnout by even 10% could create landslide victories for Dems for years to come, even in some red states,

Rather than wasting resources trying to flip a small number of “economically anxious” white boomers in swing states to eke out a possible narrow win, Dems should focus efforts on young voters.

Fetterman gets it, and a number of others do, but there’s more work to be done.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:07 AM

8. Yes

Its their future that is being destroyed.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:09 AM

9. My son would just probably try to leave the country

Too many stupid people here would be his reasoning. He is in his mid 20s and has always voted, is up on issues. Not a ton of friends, but those he has he says are pretty apolitical.

My friends daughters that are very smart academically, and talk of supporting women's rights, are going back to get their Masters degrees to Kentucky and Alabama not giving any thought that they could go elsewhere.

My younger than me coworkers are pretty angry however. Some might get proactive as they are raising your families and see what is at risk.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:19 AM

10. People often forget the economic difficulties younger people are facing

Rent, gas, college tuition, groceries, you name it.

It is a daily struggle to survive.

Most don't have savings and don't own a house.

Most cannot afford to travel to protests like the RW-financed Proud Boys

They are not stupid. They know Donald Trump is a moron, and Republicans are lying authoritarian assholes

They are stuck, and they don't have a leader - like Mario Savio:

We were told the following: If President Kerr actually tried to get something more liberal out of the regents in his telephone conversation, why didn't he make some public statement to that effect? And the answer we received, from a well-meaning liberal, was the following: He said, 'Would you ever imagine the manager of a firm making a statement publicly in opposition to his board of directors?' That's the answer!

Well, I ask you to consider: If this is a firm, and if the board of regents are the board of directors; and if President Kerr in fact is the manager; then I'll tell you something. The faculty are a bunch of employees, and we're the raw material! But we're a bunch of raw materials that don't mean to be—have any process upon us. Don't mean to be made into any product. Don't mean ... Don't mean to end up being bought by some clients of the University, be they the government, be they industry, be they organized labor, be they anyone! We're human beings!

There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part! You can't even passively take part! And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels ... upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!

- Berkeley, December 2, 1964

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 2, 2022, 12:31 AM

48. In many states, they can be fired for protesting, if their employers find out.

Many of them just can't afford to take that chance.

Retired people, on the other hand, won't lose their SS or their pension income if the wrong person comes across a picture of them holding a sign.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:30 AM

12. A resounding "maybe"

But the young folks I know... I don't have a lot of faith. I suspect things will have to get really, really bad and then there may be action. Will it be too late? I don't know.

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Response to luv2fly (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:28 PM

31. That's my take on it too

Many people are still in denial about the reality that our democracy and our freedom is teetering on a knife's edge.

Between 1965 and 2022 there have been enormous changes in our society that IMO have contributed to our apathy.

From television through cable through the Internet, Americans have become fully commercialized and molded into mush brained consumers. Good consumers don't think about politics and have a knowledge of history - in fact, corporations don't want their customers to have good critical thinking skills.

I'm not sure that the younger folks will wake in time from that pleasant dream of a world in which bad things never happen and evil never wins, to save us.

Sure us geezers can take to the streets and raise the alarm until we are blue in the face, but the reality is that our time is running out. The way it always is, it's up to the young people to carry the torch forward.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:42 AM

14. The youth will come out alongwith the a lot of people . . ..

They fought before and will fight again. Although red states are eliminating voting rights and with the fucked up gerrymandering's with the help of the GQP US SC justices, vote in numbers will prevail.

US SC taken up that NC bullshit suit tells me they are worried and want to put the nail the coffin.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:44 AM

15. They sure haven't been so far.

It's pretty amazing to me....

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Response to ananda (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 03:38 PM

27. Yeah I remember an article that came out right after Trump's inauguration...

That said that kids were using Trump's name calling and rhetoric to bully other kids. That was fucking disturbing.

Hell I know teenagers who are firmly in the Murdoch / MAGA cult and they haven't even voted in a single election yet. They are definitely getting hooked when they are young.

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Response to Initech (Reply #27)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:52 PM

36. "Conservative" parents more fully indoctrinate their kids now

Than in the past.

It wasn't uncommon for children of republican parents to go counter culture through the 70s into the 80s, but increasingly that changed and now they full on drag their kids into the right wing cesspool w them.

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Response to Cosmocat (Reply #36)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:19 PM

45. Absolutely no question about that!

I saw a kid outside the store one day wearing a shirt that said "Joe + The Hoe Gotta Go". The kid was 13, maybe 14. No doubt in my mind that he learned that shit from his parents.

What the parents watch and listen to absolutely has an effect on the kids. If the parents spend all day listening to horseshit like Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson and Rush Limbaugh, don't be surprised when the kids grow up to be spiteful, gun toting neo Nazis with an ego complex.

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Response to Cosmocat (Reply #36)

Sat Jul 2, 2022, 12:21 AM

47. The right-wing Evangelical Christian churches are doing it, too.

Teaching the kids that Gawd chose Trump to be president, and Democrats are in league with Satan.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:46 AM

16. The better question is why in the hell the mature people, who know better,

aren't in the streets with torches and pitchforks. We act like it is the young people's responsibility to save us from the mess our generation has made. We are showing young people that insanity in government is normal, how are they to know any better?

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Response to Chainfire (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 10:00 AM

17. Geebus. I don't even know where to begin with your post.

But, maybe consider who has the most to lose when you decide the youth of today have no responsibility to fight back. Apathy is what will destroy us all and you just underscored that as a "virtue." Thank heavens most of our younger generation(s) don't feel that way. And, in THEM, I have faith, just as I have in most of my generation and the ones surrounding, whose fight began with Vietnam, but have not ended to this day.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 10:18 AM

18. So I guess that you think that since my generation accelerated the end of the Vietnam War

50 years ago, we have done our part, and now it is someone else's responsibility to correct the mess that we have made over the last 30 years? Make no mistake about who is responsible, through apathy and inaction, for the rise of American Fascism. Wanting young folks, born since Raygun, to fix our society is just a cop-out. We need a grey army to step up; we are the ones with the least to lose.... Step away from the keyboard and into the streets if you want to make a difference.

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Response to Chainfire (Reply #18)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:08 AM

19. THat is blatantly wrong, given it is the same women out there and who HAVE been out there

on abortion--even when others would not join them. YOu are being disingenuous and dishonest about what I wrote. STOP IT.

And, yes, the younger generations MUST step up--your excuses to the contrary. The 60's generation being dismissed as Trump supporters is a grotesque misstatement at best and a blatant lie at worse-- no matter who says it. And btw, that attitude and asssertion discount the MAJORITY of DU members, just to start. You seek to "claim" the 60's generation, yet that is most of us on DU and we are not to blame for all the world's ills, but rather most of us have remained engaged in the fight. Shame on you. Again, most of us never stopped fighting. Nor will we until the day WE die. But, we have to have the generations to come out to help. What part of that are you refusing to recognize?

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #19)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:25 AM

20. Responsibility. We made the mess, we need to fix it.

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Response to Chainfire (Reply #20)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:26 AM

21. Everyone has the responsibility to engage. EVERYONE.

Step away YOURSELF from the keyboard. Most of us on DU, myself included have been active in these decades from gun control, to voter rights, to women's rights, abortion, gay rights, back to SCOTUS Gore v Bush. Somehow, I'd bet you've not been so, though I could name many long-term DUers who have joined ME in those efforts. And it is not those of us who have remained active who deserve the accusations of hypocrisy. You might think about that.

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Response to Chainfire (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 03:55 PM

28. We don't need them in the streets with torches and pitchforks.

We need them in their polling places, voting.

Unfortunately, certain politicians and social media has conditioned them to think that """fighting""" by protesting and generating viral moments for likes and retweets is somehow the solution to our current problems.

It's not.

Voting -- unfortunately, in our case, the lack thereof-- caused this mess and it will be the solution to this mess.

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Response to Chainfire (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 10:57 PM

43. Someone was on here the other day being angry a pair of 21 year olds.

The poster said, "What do you want to bet those 2 women didn't vote in 2016 or 2018?"

Imagine being so desperate to absolve the oldsters and blame the young people for the current state of affairs that they were angry at these women for not voting when they were too young to vote.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:52 AM

22. Not nearly enough screaming at them

I feel like we're at a 70% with this tactic. If we could bring the volume up to about 90%, I think we could capture a few more. Fill in the last 10% with ignoring or being condescending about their issues, and it'll just be *chef's kiss* Campaign strategy perfection.

(One funny note. I'm in my early 40s, and the last demographic poll here had me in like the bottom 10% of the site. I was like, "Oh god. How am I considered a young voter? I have gray creeping into my hair.).

One of the things that I always remember is that voters under 44 voted for Bernie overwhelmingly in primaries in 2016/20. Like, it wasn't even close. The bottom half of the party is much, much more liberal and ready to change things than the people higher up.

But somehow we're still talked about as if we're wet behind the ears 20 year olds. It is one of the strangest disconnects I've ever seen. I have friends my age with kids in college. No less than five of my nieces and nephews are currently in college.

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Response to Sympthsical (Reply #22)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:20 PM

30. It's not that there aren't enough young voters, it's that too many of them...

...think not voting at all is better than voting for the lesser of two evils. They're insulted by having to make that kind of choice. They demand to be inspired, or else you haven't "earned" their vote.

There are people like that at all ages, of course, but I think that attitude is more prevalent among the young.

I don't claim to know how to fix that. You're probably correct that screaming at young voters won't help, but that might be because nothing at all will help, or nothing would work that gets the younger vote without losing too much of the older vote at the same time.

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #30)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:38 PM

32. People need to be persuaded

The thing is, people just seem to ignore all human nature. "Well, if you can't look around and be motivated to vote, you're the worst." That's the message. That's it. This feeling that if you need persuading it's not worth it (2016 says hey).

Ok, but human nature hasn't changed in the last several thousand years. This isn't a campaign approach liable to work, but it's all I see from people older than me. When the message is consistently, "You will get nothing and you will be fine with it, because it could be worse!"

Why would someone vote for you? Where is the persuasion? Where is the enthusiasm and motivation? Say what you will, but the Right is really good at motivating. Those people get riled up. Our side just yells at my generation and younger.

We get yelled at when we bring up issues important to us, then we get yelled at when our enthusiasm isn't what people feel it ought to be.

How many times can you tell people you do not care about them, their issues, or their lives (see: Millennials and economic anything) and then still stand there with your hand out, "Vote for me please, you whining piece of shit."

I mean it's totally fascinating to me, because people seem to genuinely believe this is a viable strategy. Completely blows my mind.

I always vote. Always always. I mark that D all the way down. But, man, I get how people my age and younger feel. I really do.

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Response to Sympthsical (Reply #32)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:45 PM

34. I get it, but I don't condone, it and don't know what form of persuasion works

I'm really tired of having to accept, even if true, that human nature is to behave like bratty children who need to be placated.

If it's necessary to do that for the greater good anyway, then sure, that's what we should do. But I don't know how to do it myself, so I'm in no position to be complaining that Democrats need to do better when I have no idea *in specific, real-world workable detail* what "better" would look like.

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #30)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:07 PM

40. Fear is a strong motivator

Our Fascist friends know how to use fear and hate to motivate their goose-stepping pawns, even if it is mostly contrived fear, whether it's Jews, Muslims, Mexicans or Liberals.

On the Progressive side, we have REAL things to fear, like the loss of our freedom and privacy and and right to vote, and ultimately, our lives. We are doing a very poor job of using that fear to motivate. Anyone with a brain should be terrified of what is coming in this country.

As other have pointed out it will take a leader that can communicate the urgency of the situation.

Reminds me of an old Midnight Oil song, "Put Down that Weapon"

And if we think about it
And if we talk about it
And if the skies go dark with rain
Can you tell me will our freedom remain

Put down that weapon or we'll all be gone
You can't hide nowhere with the torchlight on
And it happens to be an emergency
Some things aren't meant to be
Some things don't come for free



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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:53 AM

23. There were quite a few young people

Who showed up outside the Federalist Society dinner in NYC the other night.

And got right in their faces.





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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:58 AM

24. Effective resistance requires

not only the will to resist but sufficient historical context for them to know what they're fighting for and why.

This clarity of vision cannot rely completely on the education system, which has failed young people in many ways when it comes to understanding historical consequences of authoritarianism.

It's up to us more seasoned folks to illuminate this sense of purpose.

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Response to TheProle (Reply #24)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 08:12 PM

29. That was my point about the 60's versus the 2020's

We were only 20 years away from the Nazi horror and the immediate threat it created for the US. Today, we are several generations removed. Human memories are short, it's the "it can't happen here" thinking.

Easy to say it's up to us but the question is how?

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 12:02 PM

25. You mean, are they joining US to stop fascism? Not in high enough

numbers yet. Adult brain development isn't achieved until about 25, and until the mid 30s or so most still seem to think the work of paying attention and voting's a chore for parents and grandparents.

All these hits should distract some more of them into looking around, but to what? Most messaging to discourage voting Democrat (from BOTH LW and RW antagonists) is aimed at the uncommitted and uninvolved.

Bombarded with lies, they don't know who Democrats are and what we do. Confusion alone is enough to turn off millions.

That's where we come in. We can at least help them identify those who pretend to share our ideals but work to keep us from achieving them. We may be able to make a difference by helping identify the differences between conservatives and liberals and the similarities between the LW and RW authoritarians, populists, and extremists (LOTS of overlap there).

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 01:02 PM

26. They will with a unified message and strong leadership.

The fascists will be unified in a position of racism and misogyny. They will pacify the masses with disinformation and will provide “security” and make everyone feel grateful for it.

The Institutions must hold, and they will hold if the People hold. Institutions must be very diverse in makeup.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:11 PM

41. Today's 20 yr olds are not counter culture but they'll vote

Because the Right went too far.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 09:47 PM

42. Depends; does it require more than posting a Tik Tok video?

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Fri Jul 1, 2022, 11:22 PM

46. I think there's another problem: the thought that what can we really do?

Too much has been taken away in just a short time by the unelected and elected who want to see the US turn into a nightmare government.

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Sat Jul 2, 2022, 12:33 AM

49. Most young people just aren't paying attention to politics .

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Sat Jul 2, 2022, 08:13 AM

50. Hoping someone else will do it won't cut it

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Sat Jul 2, 2022, 08:16 AM

51. Only if their parents instilled the value of democracy in them

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Response to dwayneb (Original post)

Sat Jul 2, 2022, 08:28 AM

52. The kids are all right--give them a chance

Boomers are such a large group, we got attention for turning out in the '60's, but face it--the majority of us weren't counter-culture then, nor now (way too many of us are MAGAnuts). The current group are too busy to be in the streets as much, but that doesn't mean they don't care; they have been thru too much.

I know my own kids and I work with folks half my age--I'm going to trust them not to destroy their own futures. We have very rough times ahead; together, we can see them thru.

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