General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAnti-Trans Politician Sues Graphic Novelist Over "Obscene" Book
Welcome to another day in hell! You know things are bad when a completely inoffensive graphic novel lands at the center of two completely unnecessary lawsuits. Thats just what happened with writer/cartoonist Maia Kobabe and their 2021 graphic novel Gender Queer, which is inexplicably the most banned book in America.
Last month, a Virginia lawyer filed a lawsuit against a Virginia Beach Barnes & Noble simply for carrying the book. Now, a month later, Kobabe themself is at the center of a new lawsuit, along with Gender Queers publisher Oni Press. The suit was filed by state delegate Tim Anderson on behalf of right-wing would-be politician Tommy Altmann, who clearly has some time on his hands. The case theyre trying to make is that the book violates Virginias obscenity laws, which
I dont know, havent we gotten past the idea that books can be obscene?
In Virginia, apparently not: because the book features (brief, contextually-appropriate) sex scenes, Anderson and Altmann are trying to make the case that Gender Queer is not appropriate for minors and thus violates the law.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/anti-trans-politician-sues-graphic-novelist-over-obscene-book/ar-AAZ5sDR?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ae67c06782bd4f95958d25e08bbde63b
oh noes... Not a... A sex scene... FFS this shit pisses me off
TheRealNorth
(9,481 posts)But with this Supreme Court- who the fuck knows.
The courts are now being wielded as a weapon to force us to comply because defending our rights can be expensive.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)Seeing how it depicts a 4th grader imagining themselves giving oral sex. Explicitly.
It probably doesn't fit obscenity because it's contextually a coming of age thing, the event is one panel, and they are imagining doing it. Hell Euphoria shows more explicit stuff and that's on TV.
But it's easy enough to see why it's so heavily banned.
localroger
(3,626 posts)The rolling hysteria about pedophiles is not a new thing. Suggesting in any medium that children might legitimately have sexual thoughts is one of the biggest taboos of our culture, even though a lot of us probably remember having sexual thoughts well before we were old enough to be allowed to act on them. This is going to be a big problem for the LGBTQ people because so many of them realize they are "different" at an age when it is assumed they can't have a sexuality. Just look at the ongoing freakout over everything involving trans youth.
Initech
(100,075 posts)Because they are the spoiled toddler in the room.
unblock
(52,227 posts)not something to be discussed in books!
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Altman and Anderson probably read the offending passage a whole buncha times before figuring out how "offended" they were.
CurtEastPoint
(18,644 posts)rsdsharp
(9,177 posts)against Axne in Iowa.
https://www.legis.iowa.gov/photo?action=getPhoto&ga=88&pid=14803&pType=3
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)Chainfire
(17,538 posts)Old Ray warned us....
Thtwudbeme
(7,737 posts)I have been meaning to read it. Just downloaded it on my Kindle. I read graphic lit pretty fast (a skill learned as a middle school librarian!) ....so if anyone wants a review when I finish, I'll be happy to post one.
Sympthsical
(9,073 posts)Not just the right-wingers, but people talking about it in general.
It's not rated G. I don't think that would've landed in my very blue state high school in the late 90s.
Ban it from bookstores? Of course not, that's ridiculous.
But having it in school? Different question. Really different question. Not a lot of comic books with guys blowing each other on offer in my school library.
This is one of those books I would have read as a teenager after going to get it from a bookstore or ordering online. I wouldn't have expected it in a school.
Also, having read it, it's kind of . . . creepy? I dunno. There's something eepy about the author and how they write about underaged characters in general. I know it's supposed to be a memoir, but still. Then they go all in with the graphic sex, and . . . I dunno. I'm a gay male, grew up with all kinds of porn and smut and my adult life has certainly included all of the things - and I mean all of the things. But there's something weird about that book that doesn't sit right. If you've read it and remember being around adults a little too eager to relate to the kids budding sexuality, there's a little groove of Not Quite Right you keep running your finger along.
Maybe this is just my life experiences growing up gay talking. Always those certain adults, usually in their late 20s, around who want to "help" and then get obsessed with talking about sex to people they should not be talking about sex to. This book gives me that vibe in spades.
I think it gets this vigorous defense because it landed on the Our Team vs. Their Team battlefield agenda for the year. I'm not entirely sure it should. Leave it to Amazon and be done with it.
Just my opinion as a gay man based on my own adolescent experiences.
Thtwudbeme
(7,737 posts)I just finished it. Disclaimer: I am female, 58, hetero and married (to another DUer!)- so, my reaction to the book was different than yours.
I am a middle school librarian. While I agree with you that this should not be held in middle school, I would have very little problems with it for 11th and 12th grade. I didn't find the illustrations overly graphic. What I loved about it was the way the author described themself (I do not remember the preferred pronouns- and my husband is reading it right now on a Kindle and I am not going to take it away from him) going through the stages of development. I can easily see why students who are questioning their sexuality would identify with them. I particularly liked the dialog presented with members of their family, friends....the constant exploration.
Overall, I think students SHOULD read this. If I were teaching in a university, this would make a great icebreaker for gender studies. Books help young folks identify with people and develop empathy for the other. I have a hardcore feminist friend that has become transphobic, and I never understood why. I do now after their feminist lesbian aunt explained her misgivings (misogyny).
As a librarian, I would hold this title in HS (kept in my office, available by request only) and definitely in university/ community college and public libraries. Every time a right wing loon tries to ban something, I make it a point to read the book and more often than not- find much value in it.
Sympthsical
(9,073 posts)I read it and thought immediately, "Uh, no. Not middle school. Nope nope."
I understand the story and think something around this could be written. I used to have a side gig in my early 20s writing reviews for LGBT books for an LGBT website. So, I've read a lot of YA literature geared towards the community. A lot. The main take away - LGBT YA about relationships can be just as bad as heterosexual romantic YA, lol.
But many of them did have sexual situations and things. One book that sticks out in my mind for some reason is a teenage boy who goes to camp and crushes on a slightly older counselor. The counselor eventually performs oral sex with him on the beach. Then, turns out, the counselor was bi and sleeping with everyone. Oh, the heartbreak! So we're not talking about super staid material. And that book wouldn't bother me in a high school library. It reads very little differently from the hetero form of the genre.
There's just something . . . off with this book. Nevermind that it is a graphic novel. I know we're not bothered perhaps, but I know plenty of liberal parents who would not be thrilled that was on offer at a school. This stuff isn't for our edification. How other people see it matters.
University, sure. Absolutely no problems there. But I think about 12-13 year olds, I think about my nieces and nephews at that age, naw. I'm good with that not being in school. Not everything needs to be in school. It's just a weird little hill to die on.
And like I said, I can't put my finger on it, but there's something weird in it, something Not Quite Right about the author, approach, and writing where my gay adolescent spidey sense starts tingling. There's kind of a standard I use when watching people. "The person who really, really, really wants to talk to kids about sex is exactly the person who should not be talking to kids about sex." And that isn't an ideological thing. That's an everyone thing. Think about the conservative religious types who are obsessed with telling little girls to close their legs. Well, ok, but you're spending an awful lot of time thinking about little girls and what's between their legs.
The older I get, the more I've learned to trust my Not Quite Right sense about people and their intentions. Sometimes we just pick the wrong things to go to battle over. There are other books, like Beloved or Maus, that I will go to bat for. I don't think GQ is one of them, though.
Thtwudbeme
(7,737 posts)Found it and told me she was going to throw it out.
Much hilarity ensued. Now she thinks I am a mean liberal. Oh well.
Yes I know the feeling about the people who constantly think of sex around children. It is very bizarre and creepy.
Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Thtwudbeme
(7,737 posts)This fool's lawsuit is going nowhere- but I am almost grateful for it because the author will make more money now as people buy it because it's "in the news."
JanMichael
(24,887 posts)And some radical feminists utter disdain for trans men. Hell I know one in real life. Loves gay people but hates trans men and women. I guess sees both as a hatred of women. Was furious when Kaitlin Jenner was on the cover of some magazine saying she was woman of the year. Burned her up.
It is a very a-sexual story that has one page with simulated (cartoonish) fellatio with a dildo. I would say 10th grade and up in schools. But any kid that feels different would probably benefit.
IngridsLittleAngel
(1,962 posts)Nazis. Just saying...
Just another whiny little snowflake Nazi who wants to act like a tough guy, while throwing a tantrum and melting down because books about trans issues exist.
You know what's obscene, Tommy? Small-minded, ignorance-fueled bigotry.