I don't think I've heard anyone on the J6 committee ask perhaps the most important question.

[barbaraann]

Did you hear any talk about what Donald Trump and his loyalists wanted to do if their coup succeeded?

Did (do) they want to eliminate all civil rights?
Did (do) they want to eliminate representative government?
Did (do) they want to eliminate Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid?
Did (do) they want to destroy the public school system?
Did (do) they want to eliminate all government regulations?
Did (do) they want to eliminate all "undesirables" from the USA?
Did (do) they want to withdraw from NATO and form an alliance with Russia?

I have to believe that there was indeed talk of the political goals of the coup and I think the American people need to hear about it. Bottom line--I think that the goals were/are the standard goals of the Republican Party and that they know they can only achieve them through force because they are NOT WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT.

On edit--Would the first order of business have been to execute or imprison Democratic leaders?

[Cracklin Charlie]

1. You can bet they had a post-coup plan.

I hope we get to hear about it, because I think someone wanted slobfather replaced.

Hence, his screaming fit to get to the Capitol.

[barbaraann]

4. I hadn't thought about that.

Perhaps a right-wing religious figure?

[Thomas Hurt]

20. I believe Pence was supposed to follow on after the Pig.

That was part of the deal, the rank hypocrites back the Pig and he gets them Roe and when he was dead Pence would take over.

[Beastly Boy]

27. Bannon was talking about Trumpism without Trump a yerar after Trump got elected.

[EYESORE 9001]

2. Excellent question that demands an answer

[H2O Man]

3. While those are

important questions for Americans to ask, they are not what the J6 Committee was set up for.

[barbaraann]

17. You are correct that the committee was not set up for exploring the long-term goals of the GOP.

I do think the people who were actually attacking the Capitol were motivated by blind loyalty to Trump, but I think all of the leaders of the coup (Trumps, Meadows, etc.) wanted to destroy our democracy and I wish this would come out in the hearings. If this doesn't come out, rank-and-file Republicans will just see Trump as the problem and move on to DeSantis or someone else, who would destroy our democracy just as surely as Trump would.

Can Jan. 6 be understood without understanding the motives of the leaders?

[H2O Man]

21. I think that there

is a two-part answer to your important question.

Trump & Co were focused 100% on maintaining power. Part of that is simply Trump's sociopathy not allowing him to believe he could be beat. Part is Trump's belief that if one defines their own reality, they can use power to bring it into being. Alomg with this, the number of people requesting pardons after January 6 indicates their motivation was to keep him in power through criminal means. So these are those who thought Trump provided them access to purely political power. This includes the militia groups that are invested in "white power."

The second group, while not actual cult members, are the those of the rabid, right-wing christian conservatives. They recognize Trump as a flawed man who, despite his ignorance, opened a path for their religious views to be inflicted upon society. In the context of federal judges, we see that in all of the legal cases the Trumpets brought, they lost every single one. Indeed, only Clarence of the high court voted to support the Trump cult, and that was to deny the J6 Committee access to Meadow's e-mails, which exposed his wife's role in attempting to overthrow the election results.

The christian right no longer needs Trump, as they have a majority on the USSC, as well as a number of equally disturbed judges on other federal courts. And that is what will allow them to mix their minority beliefs upon the nation, at the state level primarily, but building up to their superstitions about this being a "christian nation." And that is where the questions you so accurately ask will be answered.

[erronis]

28. "Clarence of the high court" sounds almost like a medieval title. But the xian right is not one.

Just like the xians have countless cults that mainly hate each other, and the right can't even define who/what it is. Probably just a matter of convenience for the current situations.

Are you suggesting in your last sentence "And that is where the questions you so accurately ask will be answered" that all will be determined in the states? Each state having its own take (well, repugs will accept ALEC drafts). Breaking the "united" states into 50+ independent hostile groups? Putin and the filthy-rich gated community folks are having wet dreams.

[H2O Man]

33. The USSC's Roe

decision puts women's health care rights back in the state arena. Options for what must or must not be taught in public schools is in the state arena, as well. This list goes on.

Vertainly, some of these issues might be addressed at the federal level. While our party holds the executive branch, and the House, there is not a firm control of the Senate, which without questions handcuffs us in our efforts to balance the power of the three co-equal branches.

Thus, the immediate option is found in November's elections, which are indeed held within states.

[Frustratedlady]

32. My mind keeps going back to the Koch brothers and the empire

they built. Although one is gone, the groups they set up are still actively influencing the GOP and others. It seems they knew they wouldn't be able to achieve all they wanted to change while living, but by leaving behind powerful agencies, educating young people to accept and build on their ideals and forming a court system that would allow these ideals to become reality, they would achieve many of their goals for years to come.

I doubt any of us on DU would benefit from their ideals or even accept them as good for the U.S. I think the SCOTUS decision on climate change rang the first bell for me. It took them a while, but they managed to get their foot in the door and will continue to ease the restrictions on corporations. They hated those.

I've always thought of the Koch bros. as being part of that Dark Side we talk about but can't identify.

[H2O Man]

36. Definitely.

And there are more like them, though that are not so public as the Koch brothers in their attempts to establish an even greater corporate control over an unsuspecting public. I agree with you 100%.

I always liked Malcolm X's saying, "Aim for the puppeteer, not the puppet."

[barbaraann]

45. Yes, many of the J6 leaders and followers were/are Christofascists.

I am deficient in knowledge of what happened on J6 and what has been said in the hearings, but here's an article about a prayer by the insurrectionists in the Senate on Jan. 6:

https://religionnews.com/2021/02/25/the-insurrectionists-senate-floor-prayer-highlights-a-curious-trumpian-ecumenism/

Were the religious aspects of the insurrection spontaneous or evidence of a religious seditious conspiracy? Would it be relevant to the J6 committee's mission to find out about plans and strategies for the day?

[H2O Man]

49. Yes, there is significant

overlap. No doubt about that.

One of this month's J6 hearings will focus on the planning & goals of the insurrectionists. It will be explosive. And it will document the militias with Flynn, Bannon, and Stone, and their coordination with the White House through Meadows.

[Progressive dog]

18. I agree

An attempted coup in the US is a pretty big deal to investigate.

[H2O Man]

23. As Sgt. Joe Friday said,

"Just the facts, Ma'am."

Speculation, however informed, coul and would damage the J6 Committee's standing.

[relayerbob]

41. 100% correct

[Ocelot II]

5. I don't think TFG had any policy goals - he just wanted to keep the presidency

because he's an egomaniac and he couldn't stand the thought that he lost the election. His enablers wanted to keep him in power because they derived their power from him. Because they were GOPers they also would have tried to do the things listed in the OP, in some cases because they actually believed in those policies, but in other cases only because they thought that's what the MAGAts wanted and they needed the MAGAts to keep their power. It was all about the power.

[H2O Man]

7. Right.

The J6 Committee is documenting that Trump was willing to do anything to remain in power. Congressional committees are specifically for fact-finding, but not speculation. While those questions in the OP are good, they are not included in the duties of this committee for very good reason.

[barbaraann]

9. Trump and his gang certainly are driven to achieve absolute power.

So, I guess the first order of business would have been to start eliminating all opposition, just like Hitler, Mussolini, Putin, etc.

[MyOwnPeace]

46. As tRump and his henchmen would say:

'Goals? We don't need no stinking 'goals' - we just want to rule the world!'

And all of the RepubliQans were fine with that because HE didn't care about 'ruling' - he let them do it.

He just wanted to be 'King' - and the RepubliQans wanted to keep making the rules.........

[iemanja]

6. Those aren't crimes

a couple of them could be if they were ACTED on (in the way the committee is investigating), but beliefs aren't crimes.

For you, ideology may be more important than sedition, but for the committee it is not.
I don't consider those close to the most important questions because they can't lead to conviction.

The first order of business was to execute Pence. Pelosi was next.

[H2O Man]

8. Yes.

The J6 Committe is for fact-finding, not speculation.

[barbaraann]

11. Perhaps the only goal they all knew about what to eliminate all opposition, by death or otherwise.

Do you know if anyone has testified about that?

[iemanja]

16. No, I don't recall that

That's really something a Proud Boy could shed light on.
I suspect that installing Trump was enough for them, and whatever he did would have been fine as far as they were concerned--including outlawing the opposition.

[erronis]

30. Interesting. So conspiracy to commit a crime is not a crime if the crime never happened.

I think I've heard this before but never really had to grapple with it in these current contexts.

Back in the days when conspiracies were hatched in dark rooms, smoke-filled with Hollywood gangstas, they could be thought of as aspirational crimes. Sometimes real letters were exchanged and maybe messages placed in classifieds.

Nowadays it seems like everybody could start a conspiracy theory on these innertubes - I probably have without knowing it. Sometimes these "theories" take on a sense of reality where they provoke real humans to take real actions.

Is there a crime pushing out falsehoods (Fox) or inciting to violence? Seems that the courts have been weighing in that these do represent prosecutable actions.

(Needles to say: IANAL)

[iemanja]

34. The OP is not talking about conspiracy

The questions they list are about beliefs. Conspiracy requires actions, not just ideas. We have something called the First Amendment. All kinds of nut jobs espouse desires, but they aren't criminal unless they act on them. A conspiracy theory is not illegal. Inciting violence is a crime. Pushing falsehoods is not, as you know. Again, the pesky First Amendment.

[fightforfreedom]

10. There was only one goal.

Keep Trump in power.

[barbaraann]

12. Wouldn't that require killing or imprisoning Pence and all of the Dems?

I think that's the case but I don't know if it has been said yet by any witness.

[usonian]

13. The plan had a man. Tanned, rested and ready.

[rubbersole]

37. This asshole had a plan.

Too bad his puppet was so incompetent.

[czarjak]

55. Our friend and neighbor!

[Bayard]

14. I don't think they planned that far ahead

TFG was fighting to get to the Capitol with his minions because he literally wanted to be crowned king that day.

[Me.]

15. That's Easy...Bankrupt The Country Into His Bank Account, Control Everyone, Stay Out Of Jail

[SalviaBlue]

19. Yep, the Putin Plan.

Worked for Putin in Russia.

[H2O Man]

24. +1

[Hotler]

22. Kill Dems & Libs and stack their bodies in the streets like cord wood.

That what the repug voters wanted.

[Lonestarblue]

25. I believe that Steve Bannon has been one of the Machiavellian forces behind Trump.

Trump is too stupid to have any ideas beyond how to cheat taxpayers and satisfy his own ego with his power and the obeisance of everyone around him. Bannon may well be part of a small cabal of very wealthy right-wing religious nuts like Leonard Leo, Bill Barr, Ginni and Clarence Thomas, and a few others who have been working to engineer the presidency, Congress, and the SC to their liking. None believes in democracy. All believe in using their wealth to further their own interests. Trump was merely a tool they could easily manipulate while they mostly stayed out of the public eye.

What these people want is clearly an authoritarian theocracy and a neutered federal government that can do little more than collect taxes from the little people and send the money to the military, which then goes into then pockets of the mostly wealthy shareholders who own the industries supplying the military.

Republican state leaders are already making claims about states’s rights and are trying hard to get to a position where legislators control elections and voters are mere stage props. Their goal is to take more power for themselves and decrease the power of the federal government, part of the decades-old Republican attempt to undo every last part of the New Deal to once again return all power to the unelected rich.

[Lonestarblue]

26. I believe that Steve Bannon has been one of the Machiavellian forces behind Trump.

Trump is too stupid to have any ideas beyond how to cheat taxpayers and satisfy his own ego with his power and the obeisance of everyone around him. Bannon may well be part of a small cabal of very wealthy right-wing religious nuts like Leonard Leo, Bill Barr, Ginni and Clarence Thomas, and a few others who have been working to engineer the presidency, Congress, and the SC to their liking. None believes in democracy. All believe in using their wealth to further their own interests. Trump was merely a tool they could easily manipulate while they mostly stayed out of the public eye.

What these people want is clearly an authoritarian theocracy and a neutered federal government that can do little more than collect taxes from the little people and send the money to the military, which then goes into the pockets of the mostly wealthy shareholders who own the industries supplying the military.

Republican state leaders are already making claims about states’ rights and are trying hard to get to a position where legislators control elections and voters are mere stage props. Their goal is to take more power for themselves and decrease the power of the federal government, part of the decades-old Republican attempt to undo every last part of the New Deal to once again return all power to the unelected rich.

[gab13by13]

29. The Magat Party

is owned and controlled by domestic oligarchs. The domestic oligarchs pick SC justices, pick judges, write legislation, own and manage the MSM.

Sheldon Whitehouse gets it.

[erronis]

35. Sheldon Whitehouse gets it. Seconded!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017746838
and especially
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017746838#post11

[Joinfortmill]

31. Interesting ?. Someone had a planned agenda

[barbaraann]

42. I was thinking along those lines, too, but everyone I know says I worry too much. n/t

[AllaN01Bear]

39. they have been trying that for years starting w ronald raygun,

nickle and diming things , nibbling away at things constantly and re introducing bills that have faild before .

[relayerbob]

40. This has basically nothing to do with the Jan 6 committee

While important questions, ones that should be ebing asked of every candidate in every race in the country, that committee is deisgned to determine the facts and criminality surrounding the events of Jan 6, not go off on an inquest into the political goals of criminals. That would actually destroy the credibility of the committee.

[flying_wahini]

43. I think most MAGAs don't care what the Trump's Presidency plans were

and STILL DON’T. That’s what makes it a personality cult.
All they care about is ‘sticking it to the libs’ hell and be damned to OUR country.
They would rather take down the whole country if it means they win.


Perhaps Dems should be using this approach when countering MAGA’s in real life.

[slightlv]

44. I still say there are 2 coups working here...

the first one started about 50 years ago with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Douglas Feith, and Heritage Foundation, PNAC, etc. The second one was Trumps. It was louder and more brash and brazen, so of course, it got more attention. It was in your face, while Cheney's was underground, in the background. It worked the system, and so here we are today. It hasn't stopped. All the changes you see today, all the adjudications from SCOTUS are the wishes from PNAC, Cheney, and the Evangelicals with whom they made common cause.

Trump just wanted to be made king-for-life. He was the fool on the hill; the diversion. They thought they could control him. They discovered differently. He got out of hand, as did the base. But that didn't change the original coup's workings. They could still work in the background, as long as they had the SCOTUS.

I don't know how we fight the First Coup. No one is snapping to this. No one is investigating this. And it's this coup that is destroying our democracy. We can put Trump in jail for the rest of his life. We can take out all the militias. We can try to get the Magats to come back to reality. But it still won't change anything. Because that's not where the real danger lays. How do you fight 50 years of planning, small changes made to every department of the U.S. government to lay this foundation? How do you fight 50 years go misinformation and disinformation? Of lies and language misrepresentation? Of brainwashing?

[barbaraann]

47. Yes, all of that. And it brings us to Liz Cheney, doesn't it?

And to her father supporting her.

Don't forget that Dick Cheney worked in the Nixon Administration. I was around for the hell of those years.

[MyOwnPeace]

48. Excellent, excellent post.......

And to answer your question about the 'First Coup' - well, I certainly can't, and I don't think that too many have actually considered that 'First Coup' to be a problem, although it does seems to be coming into clearer light as we see what's happening with SCOTUS and their rulings.

Maybe we will begin to 'see the light' and make plans to act accordingly - after we put an end to the 'tRump Klown Show'.......

We had better - or we won't have "OUR" country anymore.........

[usonian]

50. It's all becoming crystal clear.

Short: Don't fret about the early "Rush" days. That program was hijacked by Putin in recent times. A third-rate country based on petroleum.

That's your connection to Bush, Koch et. al.

Petrol: Putin
White Qristianity: Putin
Ukraine, bribing the Orange Julius: Putin
Conspiracy theories, web "bots" spreading division: Putin

One wonders who is his "heir" when he sips the wrong cup of tea.

I'll summarize in an "ADHD" thread.

[barbaraann]

51. Or maybe as opaque as Siberian oil. n/t

[usonian]

52. Did you ever have a 1000-piece puzzle, and get every one to fit?

We knew all these little facts, and that there was some connection, but when you start to see how every damn fact fits seamlessly, including, and ESPECIALLY ones that were kind of weird ... it's quite startling.

Perhaps someone has already sketched it out. I'll throw my ideas out there in case "someone" wants to make it a message. I've been beating the drum on messaging for many months.

People say that insanity is doing the same thing over and over when you don't get results. Well, the universe is quantum in nature and Albert Einstein aBOHRred quantum uncertainty. (that is the pun of a lifetime). Still, baseball players keep trying to hit over and over and sometime it works. It's not insanity. It's statistics. You don't quit, and you don't have different strategy and tactics every damn trip to the plate.

Just to say that ONE OF THESE DAYS, someone is going to steal one of my ideas and make a difference for the better.

I used to rate my bosses by how fast they would steal my ideas and claim them for themselves. Heck, I just wanted the job to be done right. Smartest, a few days. Densest, I estimate 6 years, and then they got the idea wrong.

I'll keep trying.
Thanks for the reply.

[barbaraann]

54. Sadly, I'm too old now to embark on big research projects.

If I were younger, I might help with putting some of your puzzles together.

[chowder66]

53. Hold onto power to enact any, all or more of those things.

[czarjak]

56. "Kill 'em all" is the mantra of the hardcore I know. I believe my ears.

[Mr.Bill]

57. What I'd like to hear asked of all republican witnesses,

(which so far I think is all the witnesses) Is did you vote for Trump in 2016, and will you vote for him in 2024.

[Mad_Machine76]

58. If the coup had succeeded

any/all of those things could have been up for grabs. I think though that some kind of civil war/conflict would have been inevitable. The idea of people (other than Republicans and maybe not even all of them) just accepting it would have been hard to imagine

But it's a good question that I think that the J6 should ask publicly. People need to understand the stakes.