Some may disagree, but it is my strong opinion that if you cannot tag your deer using a bolt action

[Atticus]

Last edited Tue Jul 5, 2022, 10:18 PM - Edit history (1)

rifle with a five round clip, you should not be hunting.

Then too, there are some very accurate single-shots available in appropriate calibers.

[hlthe2b]

1. My father, five uncles and all my cousins were able to do so.

[Ocelot II]

2. If you use an AR-15, is there anything left besides

a messy pile of venison-burger?

[Elessar Zappa]

11. The AR15 ammunition isn't any more powerful than that of standard rifles.

Really, what makes it worse is the clip size and the fact that’s it’s semi-automatic.

[Bev54]

14. Nope not just that

"The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different: They travel at a higher velocity and are far more lethal than routine bullets fired from a handgun. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body."

[Elessar Zappa]

17. From a handgun, yes.

It’s not more powerful than other standard rifle ammunition, which is also very high velocity.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

19. Well,

that covers just about any rifle round, they all pretty much travel at a higher velocity than handgun rounds.

[Ocelot II]

21. It's more than that; it's the velocity, which causes far more tissue damage.

A bullet with more energy can do more damage. Its total kinetic energy is equal to one-half the mass of the bullet times its velocity squared. The bullet from a handgun is---as absurd as it may sound---slow compared to that from an AR-15. It can be stopped by the thick bone of the upper leg. It might pass through the body, only to become lodged in skin, which is surprisingly elastic.

The bullet from an AR-15 does an entirely different kind of violence to the human body. It’s relatively small, but it leaves the muzzle at three times the speed of a handgun bullet. It has so much energy that it can disintegrate three inches of leg bone. “It would just turn it to dust,” says Donald Jenkins, a trauma surgeon at University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio. If it hits the liver, “the liver looks like a jello mold that’s been dropped on the floor.” And the exit wound can be a nasty, jagged hole the size of an orange.

These high-velocity bullets can damage flesh inches away from their path, either because they fragment or because they cause something called cavitation. When you trail your fingers through water, the water ripples and curls. When a high-velocity bullet pierces the body, human tissues ripples as well---but much more violently. The bullet from an AR-15 might miss the femoral artery in the leg, but cavitation may burst the artery anyway, causing death by blood loss. A swath of stretched and torn tissue around the wound may die. That’s why, says Rhee, a handgun wound might require only one surgery but an AR-15 bullet wound might require three to ten.A bullet with more energy can do more damage. Its total kinetic energy is equal to one-half the mass of the bullet times its velocity squared. The bullet from a handgun is---as absurd as it may sound---slow compared to that from an AR-15. It can be stopped by the thick bone of the upper leg. It might pass through the body, only to become lodged in skin, which is surprisingly elastic.

Then, multiply the damage from a single bullet by the ease of shooting an AR-15, which doesn’t kick. “The gun barely moves. You can sit there boom boom boom and reel off shots as fast as you can move your finger,” says Ernest Moore, a trauma surgeon at Denver Health and editor of the Journal of Trauma and Acute Surgery, which just published an issue dedicated to gun violence.

https://www.wired.com/2016/06/ar-15-can-human-body/

[NickB79]

30. Compared to a handgun

Most deer rifles fire rounds around that 3000 fps velocity mark, just like a 5.56mm.

[thatdemguy]

41. FYI a ar15 round has about 1100 fts of energy

By hunters its considered too low, most hunting rifle rounds have 2600-3000 ft lbs of energy. Your gran-pa's 30-06 will do more damage than an ar15 round, many times more. The ar15 round is a 55 grain bullet, and the 30-06 is 180n grains, over 3 times more and about same speed.

If you want to see what the ar15 round is like compared to the over 100 year old 30-06 goto this video and go to about the 4 min mark.

Its not size, it how many bullets it can fire.

[Lurker Deluxe]

46. Not really

It is about who can handle the shock of the round.

A 30-06 can be had with removable mags in semi-auto. A 20 year old 120 pound punk could not fire it the same as a .223 ... it would break his shoulder.

[thatdemguy]

51. You are wrong

Here is a video of a probably 100 lb kid shooting one. If you want to have good arguments then educate yourself. The ar15 was adopted because most rounds missed during war and it allowed them to carry more rounds.

[Lurker Deluxe]

52. And ...

By the 3rd shot he is obviously reeling from the kick ...

Also note the lack of rapid fire. Anyone can shoot one shot and recover with basic firearm knowledge. Rapid fire would knock him on his ass by the 4th shot ... and he would be done.

This video actually enforces my point.

[Oneironaut]

108. You are correct. It's a common misconception that the AR-15's round is bad bc it's "too powerful"

The problem with the AR-15 is that it shoots rounds quickly with a 30 round mag (quick with semi auto I mean). It also has low recoil and is easy to shoot.

It is by no means like a .22, but, 30-06 rounds give much more energy than a .223 (citation needed. I’m pretty sure this is true, though). 30-06 rounds are ideal for deer.

Hunting with an AR-15 is quite honestly fucking stupid, and, I hate that gun. It is usually bought by people because it looks cool, or, it’s fun to shoot a military rifle without having a true military rifle. Im prepared to be called ignorant, but, that is my view of it.

I adore lever-action rifles. Not cool enough for the masses, I guess?

[thatdemguy]

109. see the links below

First thing I found on google
http://www.ballistics101.com/30-06_Springfield.php
http://www.ballistics101.com/223_remington.php

[Zeitghost]

76. That's true of any rifle round

The .223 is considered barely adequate for small deer at close range. It's underpowered for anything larger or at distance. A classic hunting round like the .30-'06 or the .30-30 are significantly more powerful.

[Ocelot II]

77. So it's really not a good deer rifle unless you shoot off a bunch of rounds,

in which case you end up with deerburger? The descriptions of the people killed in these mass shootings are that they were horribly mangled, so evidently they were hit with multiple bullets.

[Happy Hoosier]

79. Well....

I don’t wanna get too gruesome here, but the bullets used which are intended to kill people tend to disintegrate as they enter soft tissue, doing horrible damage. Hunters don’t want that… they tend to use soft-nosed bullets that expand, but remain in one piece.

Assault rifles were developed during WWII to use an “intermediate” cartridge, as opposed to the “full-sized” cartridge like the .30-06 or .308 used in “battle rifles.”

Most hunters prefer the larger cartridge, but some prefer the smaller cartridge.

[jmowreader]

75. What there's usually left...

...is about a mile-long trail of blood you have to follow to find the deer you shot.

.223 and 5.56mm are not even close to being powerful enough to humanely kill anything bigger than a coyote.

[multigraincracker]

3. Laws on deer are by states,

waterfowl is federal and only 3 rounds allowed.

[DavidDvorkin]

4. IMO, in any case, no one should be hunting.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

13. And why would that be? nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. Why not?

[shrike3]

37. Healthy ecosystems require predators.

We've gotten rid of predators. If we don't hunt, they overpopulate and starve to death.

[DavidDvorkin]

60. Predators don't take the best, as hunters do

Predators are eugenic. Hunters are dysgenic.

[multigraincracker]

65. Not all do.

[shrike3]

84. Then bring back predators. You willing?

Wolves, bears, etc. Or would you rather prey starve to death? Or, as one Duer put it, end up as road kill?

[PTWB]

74. Hunting is far more ethical than buying meat at the grocery store.

If wild game wasn’t such a limited resource, I’d strongly advocate that we only allow ethically harvested wild game and outright ban meat farming.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. The best shot I know sometimes uses an AR-15 to hunt deer.

[Atticus]

6. And, this means----what? nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

12. That he uses one shot to kill.

[Atticus]

18. So, he doesn't need an AR-15 to hunt deer. nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. Why not?

[Atticus]

24. Why? nt

[shrike3]

85. Wouldn't a single action do just as well?

Why is an AR-15 necessary?

[localroger]

47. That he's a testosterone poisoned idiot

For hunting there is nothing superior about an AR-15 to a good quality bolt action except the ability to fire more than a few rounds without reloading, and if you need to do that you're either a crap hunter or a crap sportsman who can't admit you just fucked up the shot. People spraying semiauto when they miss their first shot or two is how other hunters get hit.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

62. But he doesn't spray semiauto.

[Lurker Deluxe]

66. Game wardens are the king of the forest

They have unlimited jurisdiction and have ultimate authority.

If you "miss your first shot or two" you have one left. Rapid fire in the hunting areas will get the attention of everyone ... certainly the wardens. If they catch you with over the limit in your weapon they will take it from you, take you to jail, and may or may not come to your home and take all your toys.

Semi-autos are fine for hunting ... large mags are taboo.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

69. I don't understand those who think that hunting with a semi auto rifle

is spray and pray, especially, as you said, game wardens, USFS and BLM Rangers other hunters will quickly notice and take action.

[TigressDem]

20. Fine. But clips of 5-10 max.

The kid in Texas had like 1,500 rounds on him.

There are mega magazines that carry up to 100 rounds.
SO NOT NEEDED by good hunters.

[Happy Hoosier]

80. Nobody hunts with 100 round magazines. NT

[shrike3]

86. I think the point many are trying to make here is this:

Why keep these things legal when other guns will do?

[Happy Hoosier]

88. I support banning them...

… but it’s important we understand what makes these weapons dangerous.

[shrike3]

89. Cool. That's reasonable.

Guns are a part of culture and are a useful tool. There's no reason we can't educate ourselves and differentiate.

[TigressDem]

110. Except idiot kids hunting people. So they aren't needed.

[DiamondShark]

106. Most if not all states limit 5 rounds.

Doesn't matter if you are loading from a clip or a magazine, still only 5 rounds.

[onecaliberal]

7. My grandfather, father, and brothers did it all their lives.

[doc03]

8. My dad shot many deer with a bolt action rifle. I have shot 4 with a pump action shotgun

with a three-round capacity. If you can't get a deer unless you have a semi-auto with a 15 round
magazine you shouldn't be in the woods.

[Triloon]

9. Indeed.

If you need a semi-auto to get it done then you need to stay out of the woods and spend a lot more time on the rifle range. And that goes for wild hogs, too.

[doc03]

16. To hunt deer in Ohio you are limited to 3 rounds but to hunt humans

anything goes.

[Phoenix61]

31. Same in Florida. nt

[doc03]

38. A deer has more rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness than humans. nt

[SYFROYH]

94. Except its legal to shoot and kill deer without provocation depending on state law

Not so much for people.

[milestogo]

10. Whatever.

Not everyone kills animals.

[TigressDem]

23. True, but the legitimate use of guns is for hunting, self defense and target practise.

Which is where these --- if responsible hunters can do this without mega magazines, then the mega magazines should be banned.

[bmbmd]

25. I remember when the Buckmasters slogan

was "One shot, one deer".

[brewens]

26. My dad always hunted with Springfield 1913 30-06 with the original military peep sight.

He always managed to get close enough and get his deer. He could have bought any rifle with a nice scope he wanted but he liked being old school.

[Calculating]

27. 2a isn't about hunting

It's about defending yourself

[Wednesdays]

29. It's about defending the country/state.

I'd have a hard time accommodating a "well-regulated militia" in my home to defend it.

[48656c6c6f20]

32. James Madison a big fan of the AR-15 was he?

[shrike3]

36. You need an AR to defend yourself?

[localroger]

49. Well you know when you're up against an Abrams tank or an M777 or an atomic bomb

...an AR is just the thing to give you parity on the battlefield.

[shrike3]

54. On the battlefield, yes.

[rownesheck]

28. I say to all hunters who use a gun,

show me how bad ass you really are by using a bow and arrow. If you can bag a deer that way, you've earned my respect.

Full disclosure, I don't hunt. I think deer are too cute to kill. Most animals are.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

34. I used to bow hunt when I was a teenager wayyyyy back when,

sometimes got my deer, sometimes I didn't, but I would also hunt with a Winchester lever action 30/30, best hunting rifle I ever owned.

Haven't hunted since I retired, but I have no with people problem hunting game with a rifle, bow and arrow, or a spear is one so desires.

[Lurker Deluxe]

67. I used a Marlin

Had a scope on mine for a bit ... Win has a top eject and the side scope was junk. 30/30 is one of the best "brush calibers" around.

I no longer hunt (deer) either, I am usually referred to as "camp bitch" ... I go now because I like to be in the outdoors. I usually find a local spot to drown some minnows when I go, still enjoy an occasional bird hunt.

[shrike3]

35. Well. it's either let mother nature take care of it or let the hunters.

We've driven away predators in many areas, and with no predators the deer overpopulate and starve to death. That's how mother nature does it without predators.

[Archae]

45. All too often it's roadkill.

You want to pay for the damage hitting a deer with a car or even a truck costs?

[shrike3]

53. Forgot that component. You're right.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

71. Always a classic.

Ron White

[ripcord]

44. So you would rather have them die slowly from lack of graze cause by overcrowding

Than allow a hunter to cull them?

[DavidDvorkin]

61. Hunters "cull" the best of the herd instead of the least fit

They decrease the survivability of the prey animal.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

64. I am quite sure that the deer that I manage to spot, track and kill are not the "best" of the herd.

The ones best able to pass their genes on are the ones I never see.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

70. Not true,

the best ones are the ones that know when to get the fuck out of Dodge.

[Lurker Deluxe]

73. Hunting on public land is all about management

Limits change per locality to keep the population managed correctly to ensure the survivability, and health, of the species being hunted.

Bag limits will not allow you to "cull" the herd.

Usually two bucks two antlerless in most counties in TX with a limit on the size of the second buck. You cannot go out and kill only the biggest and strongest out there ... you will get in trouble ... and in TX, serious trouble.

[Happy Hoosier]

81. Do they?

Most hunters I know don’t really get the option of being picky. They tend to take whatever legal deer presents itself.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

63. I don't hunt be be "bad ass," I hunt to get some good meat, among other reasons.

[shrike3]

33. Know lots of deer hunters. They all say the same thing.

[mentalsolstice]

39. I agree!

You don’t need one to kill Bambi, nor do you need one to defend yourself, your family or your precious home and possessions.

[Archae]

48. Wild deer are NOT "Bambi."

They can be just as vicious as predators get, and they do absolute wonders when hit by cars or trucks.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

72. Yep,

those hooves and antlers will definitely mess someone up.

[Texasgal]

111. They often waste away

due to disease and starvation as well.

[Deuce]

40. Always been partial to Browning Bolt Action .243.....

[Paladin]

99. I believe the .243 is minimum acceptable strength for deer hunting.

The standard AR-15 round, the .223, is completely inadequate.

[DiamondShark]

107. Fortunately the .300 AAC Blackout exists. n/t

[Lurker Deluxe]

42. Pretty much all calibers are available semi-auto or bolt

An AR-15 can be fit as a bolt action rifle.

A 30-06 can be fit as a semi-auto with a removal mag.

A 12 ga shotgun can be bolt, breech, or semi-auto.

.223 is popular because it is cheap and does not kick like a f'n mule.

None of these punks could handle a semi-auto 30-06, which would be much deadlier than a .223 AR.

There is no magic to an AR-15.

[localroger]

50. True, the magic is in large magazines on semiauto receivers

Nobody needs that shit unless they're wearing a uniform with a country's flag on it.

[Lurker Deluxe]

57. Agee

Stick with the old 5+1 ...

Detachable mags are the issue, not caliber or platform.

No reason to have the shit that is being marketed now.

[ripcord]

43. I use a Mini 14 that fires the same overloaded .22 round as the AR 15 to hunt pigs

My goal is to put a couple of pigs down at a time.

[Jirel]

56. One bullet, one deer.

I was taught with a military style semiautomatic. However, the rule was simple - load one bullet. The end. No clips. No “multiple choice.” I appreciated the lightness vs power, and the nice scope. But I have a big old wood-stock sniper rifle that works just as well.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

58. 1 shot: deer; 2 shots: maybe deer; 3 shots: no deer

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

100. +1

[MineralMan]

104. Yes. Exactly.

[Iggo]

59. Five sounds like a lot.

[albacore]

68. "One shot... one kill".... other than that....

[flvegan]

78. Some may disagree, but if you can't get your protein without killing an animal

you might be an idiot.

[Happy Hoosier]

82. "Can?" Sure. Want? Nope.

[Happy Hoosier]

87. And you keep sling insults.

While ignoring massive environmental damage from pesticides and fertilizers.

Enjoy your tofu and beans. I’ll enjoy my grass-fed beef.

[PTWB]

90. Humans have been hunting and eating animals for a couple hundred thousand years.

[radicalleft]

91. Well aren't you nice...

NOT

[MarineCombatEngineer]

101. Well, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it,

however, the vast majority of the planet would disagree with you.

[Amishman]

92. We're the only ones saying gun rights are about hunting

The right isn't even trying to use that justification anymore.

[Atticus]

93. Who said "gun rights are about hunting"? It is just that some DO use hunting as an

EXCUSE to own a people-killer rifle with a high capacity magazine.

You COULD kill deer with a full-auto machine gun, but you sure don't "need" one.

[SYFROYH]

95. Bolt action rifles are weapons of war.

Back in the day there was probably dome Fudds complaining about high capacity 5 rounders with monster loads like 30-06.

[Fla_Democrat]

96. Ok, thanks for that

Lemme write that down.

'5 round "clip", bolt action.' Random person on the internet.


Gotcha.

[Atticus]

98. Bless your heart! nt

[MissMillie]

97. Well, personally.... (pun alert)

I don't play tag w/ deer. Tag can really only be played with slugs and turtles.

Actually, I agree w/ you. If hunting is a "sport" then there has to be a challenge to it--otherwise it's a slaughter.

[Hugin]

102. That is also my sincerely held belief...

What’s the rush? It is not like they are going to shoot back.

[Emile]

103. All you need is a 12 gauge shotgun

and a few slugs.

[Kaleva]

105. Why 5 rounds? Why not restrict hunting to single shot rifles?