My Sunday morning diatribe...

[PCIntern]

Upon the death of Ivana Trump, there were a number of threads questioning the official story of her having fallen down the stairs, and instantly posters came forward denouncing just another “conspiracy theory”. Having lived through the Kennedy assassination and its aftermath and having watched the ridiculousness of the tortured explanations and coverage of that incident I am qualified to say there are conspiracy theories and then there are conspiracy theories.

I know we are not supposed to post any in this forum, but since I’ve been here for 18+ years I’m going to take a chance that this story worthy of a Hollywood film script won’t be alerted upon: so the President of the United States, having been elected in part by a giant program of Russian disinformation foisted upon the American people, loses a subsequent presidential election and conspires with members of the house of representatives, members of the retired military, lawyers, former and present CEOs of large American companies, the Russians again, local elected officials, and others to essentially overthrow the constitutional dictates of this country. Secret meetings were held in the oval office, the sanctum sanctorum of American democracy and executive power, the purposes of which were to illegally undermine and essentially destroy the notion of democracy in these United States. In concert with what are essentially American Nazis, having met secretly with them and or communicated via the Internet, a speech urging them was given with code words which sent a giant mob on its way to attack the Capitol building, possibly Lynch or at the very least capture and harm elected government officials including the vice president of the United States, and disrupt and destroy the process of certifying the new president.

There were literally hundreds of people involved at a criminal level, And at the head of all of this was the President of the United States and his militant and dangerous minions who communicated through various channels with each other and with groups to achieve destructive ends.

Oh wait… This is not a grandiose fictional “conspiracy theory” this is a fact: this is a “theory” inasmuch as it is similar to the “theory of identical vertical angles” in geometry… It is provable and true. So when someone posits a thought and it’s denounced as a “conspiracy theory”, the denigration should be very carefully measured. There are conspiracies and they are effective and prevalent in business, personal lives, and international relations. Anytime two or more people discuss a plan to perform illegal acts it is a conspiracy. By definition

To return to Ivana Trump….her ex-husband is a mobster, he is capable as we know of any behavior for which the English language has words, and as far as motive goes…what do any of us know about this bunch behind closed doors? I give him and his minions ZERO benefit of the doubt. Things have become so criminally insane that you have to prove to me that she had an accident, not the other way around. That’s how you deal with Nazis- no trust, no presumption of innocence. Oh, and one more thing…unconditional surrender.

[Ferrets are Cool]

1. TY

[HAB911]

2. PREACH

[Bettie]

3. Given what we know about that family

nothing would surprise me and nothing seems beyond the pale for them.

Heck, a staffer of Clinton took his own life and it was still brought up as a murder committed by her, but we're not supposed to not the convenient timing of Ivana Trump's death? And it was convenient. They have probably bought at least six months while they "mourn", though I'm not convinced that any member of that family is capable of caring about anything but self-interest.

[FoxNewsSucks]

24. They'll "mourn" when it gets them out of depositions etc,

but not when it gets in the way of grifting Klan rallies.

[Bettie]

28. Yes, their mourning is a

performance, nothing more. They are people devoid of feelings.

Apparently, Fred Trump worked hard to make all of his children unfeeling monsters. Didn't work on Mary T's father and it destroyed him.

[dflprincess]

79. By rights it shouldn't by the more than a week.

I got 5 days "bereavement leave" when my mother died and that's more than a lot of people get.

The world doesn't revolve around.the Trumps and their supposed grief.

[Pacifist Patriot]

4. Very well-stated

If what is known about Trump and is cohorts were unknown then I would think assumptions Trump may have had her killed were silly "conspiracy theories." Given the context, I can easily sympathize with people who might be inclined to believe Trump had a nefarious hand in it. He certainly does not appear incapable of such an act given his callous disregard for human life and the lengths he'll go to to protect his own power and position.

Accidental death is firmly within the realm of possibility. My own grandfather died after he fell and hit his head on the edge of the fireplace. But unlike Ivana, he was not associated with a monstrous crime family. Anyone who assumed my grandfather was murdered would rightly be considered off their rocker.

I'm not sure we'll ever know for certain, but personally would not be surprised if it later came out that it wasn't accidental after all. I guess we shall see. Or not.

[PCIntern]

5. I agree with you in toto

My use of Ivana’s example was to critique people who reflexively utilize the the term Conspiracy Theory as a synonym for the word “Fiction “. It is not…

[BComplex]

50. And I totally agree with you, PCIntern. Furthermore, it was made "politically incorrect" to

mention "nazis" a couple of years ago. The saying at the time was "the first one to accuse ....whomever...of being a "nazi" or "fascist" instantly and immediatel lost the argument".

This nazi denial meme was on the news!

Well, there sure as hell were a lot of nazi flags at the trump rallies, no?

Conspiracies are real. Nazis are real. Pedophiles are real.
And they're all characteristics of most republicans.

[Hugin]

6. At the end of the day, I can say no more than it is certain...

That TFG contributed to her death with the decades long white hot malice and neglect he and their children maintained at the loss of his admitted most prized possession due to abuse. Including physical assault and rape, according to the extremely contentious divorce proceedings.

Also, it is undeniable the family is exploiting her tragic death to the hilt. I guess they see it as a win at long last.

[rurallib]

7. I agree with all you said - the question I have is why Ivana?

What did she know that would make her a target? Since Trump's illegalities are widespread, I am betting she must have had some inside info that some DA or other prosecutor wanted.

[panader0]

20. Her sudden death allowed tfg to skip his Friday deposition, for one.

Like PCIntern, I would put nothing, absolutely nothing, past tfg.

[peppertree]

35. Plus, it's well known that Putin's spies were in touch with her at her Prague residence

This was during - and after - the 2016 election.

The story died down in '17. But it was widely assumed at the time that Putin was relaying messages to Needy Amin by way of Ivana.

Was she done in to keep her quiet - ahead of a likely Trump run in '24?

Stay tuned, for Unsolved Mysteries...

[Ptah]

8. Many seem unable to believe the medical examiner's conclusion that Ivanka Trump fell down the stairs

New York City’s chief medical examiner completed 73-year-old Ivana Trump's autopsy and said she died from blunt force trauma to the torso.

Yesterday, NBC New York reported that the death was officially ruled an accident after the medical examiner said Trump fell down the stairs in her home.

[Paladin]

9. Bravo! Well said.

It is beyond obvious that trump is capable of ANYTHING in the way of grotesque, illegal behavior, when it comes to protecting his own ass or advancing his own twisted schemes. A violent death in his family, be it current or past family, needs to be viewed with complete suspicion---until highly detailed investigations are finalized with clean results. We're a long way from that, as to the death of Ivana Trump.

[calimary]

13. That despicable bastard is NOT to be trusted under any circumstances.

I’ve learned to believe - and expect - the worst from him. NOTHING is beneath him at this point. And EVERYTHING about him is suspect.

[TheRickles]

10. Definitely worth considering whether she fell or was pushed.

She had many business links with Donald, esp. w/r/t casinos and possible Mafia money. Plus, her Eastern European background and possible links to Russia/KGB are problematic. This summary by Wayne Madsen, a former NSA officer, includes far more detail than I could follow, but it's very suggestive along the lines you've described:
https://www.waynemadsenreport.com/articles/july-1517-2022-ivana-trumps-sudden-death-fits-pattern|

[erronis]

16. Phew. That's quite a read (as much as I have so far.) Would benefit from some graphs showing

all of the connections between Ivana and all the rest of the sleazy characters.

[Mr. Ected]

11. How many times has our "fake news" been proven as truthful?

Great thread and very succinctly stated, as always.

[Alice Kramden]

12. K&R

Good summation of events!

[kairos12]

14. Righteous.

[dlk]

15. The timing of Ivana's death in relation to Trump's scheduled deposition is "interesting"

There are no coincidences.

[H2O Man]

17. Recommended.

Thank you for this.

Words, when used properly -- as you have done here -- have meaning. "Conspire" is, if my morning coffee has done its work properly, is a Middle English term, borrowed from the French, taken from the Latin terms for "agreeing" and "breathe." Conspiracy theories big and small are prosecuted in courts big an small all the time. It might be two knuckleheads who planned and executed a burglarly that they got caught doing on site. Or the knuckle-draggers who were determined to overthrow our government in 2020- 21.

As far as Ivana goes, I think it is at best a distraction. In the words of the Civil Rights Movement, we need remember to "keep your eyes on the prize."

[TheRickles]

21. Conspire - literally, to breath together.

[H2O Man]

25. Yes.

[Marthe48]

18. I'm naturally suspicious

I do question the timing.

I think about things a lot, because I'm alone a lot. I think qanon c.t. are wacky formulations from strung out minds, but I will question the circumstances around certain deaths in spite of official reports.

[NanceGreggs]

19. I appreciate what you're saying.

But there is another side to all of this that should not be ignored.

Along with many other Democrats (and DUers, of course), I don't want to see us becoming a left-wing version of what is happening on the right, where every single thing that happens evolves into a full-blown conspiracy theory devoid of actual facts to support it.

Some of the "theories" proffered over the past two days were, to put it bluntly, as ludicrous as Jewish Space Lasers causing wildfires, and Chinese thermostats flipping Trump votes to Biden votes. I won't embarrass posters by citing specific, totally bizarre CTs that have been posted - but they're easily found for those interested in reading them.

The basis for many of these theories is that Trump has shown himself to be "capable" of all sorts of criminality - and that's true. But that doesn't mean he is automatically guilty of every criminal act committed, or even that the death of his ex-wife was the result of a crime.

It is not unusual for an elderly woman to die from a fall down the stairs, or to have a heart attack that precipitates a fatal fall. Had Ivana not been married to Trump (many, many years ago), her death would have been reported simply as a tragic accident - end of discussion.

To accuse Trump of "offing" Ivana lacks two vital components: facts and motive (unless you want to count a few day's delay in being deposed as a viable motive for murder.)

I believe we should stay focused on the crimes Donald Trump has actually committed - and provably so. Why muddy the waters with
"but he could have, but he might have" bullshit, when the undeniable facts of his real crimes are staring us in the face?

Let's stick to the facts - and leave the conspiracy theories to the RW nut-jobs who can prove that JFK's family kidnapped the Lindberg Baby, and Charles Manson acted on the direct orders of aliens from Mars.

[TheRickles]

22. True, but there's more than just a delayed deposition at stake here.

Ivana knew as much as anyone about his shady business deals and Mafia ties, plus, more importantly, his connections to Soviet intelligence figures. I can't keep track of all the connections described in the Wayne Madsen article linked to in Post #10, but it certainly seems like there might be a there there, at least with respect to a possible motive for her untimely death.

[Mr. Evil]

49. While I'm in agreement with Nance

that we shouldn't deep dive into every rabbit hole that makes us tingle, we still have to remain cognizant of just what and who TFG's connections are really with. The Death Party (formerly known as the GOP) loves distractions. If anyone needed a distraction, it's TFG.

It's been reported that she was privy to a great many things regarding TFG. But, did she really know something that important as to make her expendable? Because of his notoriety, it's easy to imagine most anything that he'd be capable of doing.

Coincidence? Maybe. Bad timing? Possibly. Shit happens? According to the medical examiner, highly likely. But, speculation will still run rampant. But, if there is inside information that only the family and close loyalists knows that could shed light on what, if anything, else happened of a nefarious aspect, I'd bet that Melania is starting to sweat.

I really hope the focus stays on his misdeeds after the 2020 election, up to and including Jan. 6. That's become a provable conspiracy and the DOJ (and the Fulton Co. Georgia DA) can and should nail him and all the other miscreants involved.

[sammythecat]

23. Completely agree. n/t

[llmart]

26. It's not a conspiracy theory until it's proven false.

You say it lacks facts and motive. I say it's too soon to know that. With the Trump family, there's always a motive. We just may not know what it is at this time. Facts sometimes take years before they come to light and it was less than a day when many people wondered if the medical examiner's report was legit.

We can do both. We're not single minded. We can still focus on the crimes we do know he has committed and wonder what else he may be involved in. The select committee keeps getting new information hour by hour, day by day. Those were facts they didn't know last week. Seems to me tons of facts have come out on the overthrowing of our government.

[H2O Man]

27. +1

Well said.

If she had fallen down the stairs when they were in a bitter divorce, one could question it. Timing is everything. The J6 Committee, which is reality-based, is documenting the timing of the planning and execution of the insurrection. We need to keep our eyes on the prize.

[stopdiggin]

37. THANK YOU!

The push back is because disinformation, wingnuts and nutjobs should be countered - and not coddled. Regardless they inhabit the right or the left (or some cuckoo religious sect).

i.e. - please show me any reason I should be suspicious of Ivana Trump's death?

[vanlassie]

52. I'm only suspicious of the explanation. But I just can't

fathom an elderly women living in a four story apartment *without an elevator*. I can’t fathom an elderly woman with *severe hip pain* using the stairs. Up, or down! This is not to say I think she was killed. It just doesn’t ring true.

[stopdiggin]

62. so you have touble with the hip pain?

Or the 4 levels?
And which of these things do you believe to untrue ("doesn't ring true" )?

[vanlassie]

67. Right. Bad hip taking stairs? Assuming there would have been a lift.

And no way a 70+ lady with a painful (apparently serious) hip is using stairs. She’s hanging out on the ground floor if there no elevator.

[sop]

29. I agree. Now, if Melania had taken a header down the grand gilded staircase at Mar-a-Lago, that

would be sufficient grounds for all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories.

[llmart]

30. Thank you.

My biggest take-away from your post is something we need not forget. Trump is a mobster. He ran in mobster circles in NY City. He learned from them how to cover his tracks. We ask on here many times how he has managed to get away with all the crime, corruption, theft, etc. he has in his lifetime and the same thing was asked about mobsters back in the day. Eventually many of them did get caught and dealt with. Books have been written and movies produced about these types of people.

This is not on the level of unbelievable a la space lasers.

[Grasswire2]

74. And one thing a mob boss cultivates...

...is a corrupt medical examiner.

Not saying that's the case here. But it is a "thing" generally.

[llmart]

82. True.

There are a hell of a lot of people who can be "bought" if the price is right.

[TeamProg]

31. What could she POSSIBLY KNOW that would be a NEW danger to TFG?? n/t

[Higherarky]

42. We don't know what we don't know.

Could be ... well ... who knows?

Seriously.

[TeamProg]

43. !!!

Am = CM

[pandr32]

32. I'm in absolute agreement.

[tulipsandroses]

33. You forgot the part of about the wife of the Supreme Court justice

I have read almost all of James Patterson’s books, I don’t think there is anyone better at legal thrillers with twists. I don’t think he could have come up with a plot like this.

[Joinfortmill]

34. I hear you. I think she likely fell, but like you said, no trust where Trump is remotely involved.

[former9thward]

36. Sorry, no one has to "prove" to you that she had an accident.

If you want to believe a CT about her which has no evidence whatsoever that is on you.

[stopdiggin]

38. exactly

with the caveat that I get to hitch my brow and give a gentle (very polite) snort when you trot out your wingnut bullsh*t.

[Sympthsical]

39. Well, this is a look

It's a matter of credibility.

When people believe things without evidence, push things without evidence, fabricate things without evidence, or reject things with evidence, they lose it.

We are each guardians of our own credibility over time.

If someone wants to give theirs away, well, that's their choice.

Not one I understand, but their choice nonetheless.

[Scrivener7]

61. We all have experience with this guy. He never does ANYTHING honestly if he can do

it criminally instead.

I come from a NYC construction family. I've been watching him for 35 years. NOTHING connected to him is scam or crime-free. Never has been.

She probably fell down the stairs. And the point is moot anyway.

But why, knowing what you know, would you put anything past him? You going to bet money that ANYTHING connected to him is above board? I wouldn't.

[MarcA]

40. Agreed. Using the term "conspiracy theory" to dismiss,

dump on and lump legitimate research and concerns in with sensationalist tripe is nothing but propaganda done knowingly or otherwise for whatever reason. Some people don't want to risk their careers or $$$ to even just state the obvious. Not all conspiracies are necessarily evil but for the time being remain hidden.

[yellowdogintexas]

41. I find the official cause of death a bit strange..

"blunt force trauma to the torso" One would think a fall down stairs would produce a blunt force trauma to the head or a broken neck.

What would she have hit/landed on that would produce blunt force trauma to the torso?

I love a good conspiracy theory as long as it is in a work of fiction, and have several favorite authors who can write some good ones.

There are so many threads which can be pulled in this whole thing that of course we will never know.

Still it is just weird

[Scrivener7]

60. I could picture it happening on the back of the torso. Low back or kidney area causing internal

bleeding.

My sister broke both legs earlier this year falling down 10 carpeted stairs. Almost lost one of the legs. (Had to wait till this month till there was enough bone to even hold onto a knee replacement, but she's doing well now.)

Velocity is a killer.

Which is not to say I'd bet my house that there is no Donny crime behind it.

[summer_in_TX]

80. Wouldn't the medical examiner's word then have been back?

Not torso?

There are definitely some curious matters about Ivana's death, including amazingly convenient timing.

But that is subordinate to Trump's conspiracy against democracy and the United States. Certainly it raises unanswered questions, but it's not part of the Big Lie conspiracy as far as I can tell right now.

[spanone]

44. K&R

[Kid Berwyn]

45. Ivana was an "Olympic athlete" per Dimdonnie.

She may have been an alternate on the ‘72 Czech ski squad.



We do know

Czechoslovakia ramped up spying on Trump in late 1980s, seeking US intel

Exclusive: aided by Ivana Trump’s father, intelligence service with KGB ties targeted high-level government information, files show

Luke Harding
The Guardian, Oct. 29, 2018

The communist intelligence service in Prague stepped up its spying campaign against Donald Trump in the late 1980s, targeting him to gain information about the “upper echelons of the US government”, archive files and testimony from former cold war spies reveal.

Czechoslovakia’s Státní bezpečnost (StB) carried out a long-term spying mission against Trump following his marriage in 1977 to his first wife, Ivana Zelníčková. The operation was run out of Zlín, the provincial town in south-west Czechoslovakia where Zelníčková was born and grew up.

Ivana’s father, Miloš Zelníček, gave regular information to the local StB office about his daughter’s visits from the US and on his celebrity son-in-law’s career in New York. Zelníček was classified as a “conspiratorial” informer. His relationship with the StB lasted until the end of the communist regime.

New archive records obtained by the Guardian and the Czech magazine Respekt show the StB’s growing interest in Trump after the 1988 US presidential election, won by George HW Bush. The StB’s first directorate responsible for foreign espionage sought to “deepen” its Trump-related activity.

A former StB official, Vlastimil Daněk – tracked down to the village of Zadní Arnoštov, where he lives in retirement – confirmed the Trump operation. Addressing the matter publicly for the first time, he said: “Trump was of course a very interesting person for us. He was a businessman, he had a lot of contacts, even in US politics.

“We were focusing on him, we knew he was influential. We had information that he wanted to be president in future.”

Continues…

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/29/trump-czechoslovakia-communism-spying

[Kid Berwyn]

46. More on StB-KGB Trump thing...

From The Guardian:

Daněk said his senior colleagues at the StB’s headquarters in Prague were focused on Trump too. “It wasn’t only us who paid attention to him. The first department of the StB were interested in him. I don’t know if the first directorate shared information on Trump with the KGB. I can’t verify or deny.”

He added: “I don’t want to tell you any more details. It’s a past I would like to forget. I don’t want to have any problems.”

The files do not say if the Soviet Union ordered or shaped the decade-long StB Trump operation. But Czechoslovakian spies routinely shared secrets with KGB colleagues and the Moscow security agency had a large liaison office in Prague. Many StB officers also worked directly for the KGB, known as “the friends”.

In summer 1987, Donald and Ivana Trump visited Moscow and Leningrad, following a personal invitation from the Soviet ambassador in Washington, Yuri Dubinin. The trip was arranged by Intourist, a travel agency that was also an undercover KGB outfit. Soon after returning from Moscow, Trump announced he was thinking of running for president. That presidential bid failed to materialise.

In October 1988, on the eve of the US election, Ivana Trump visited her parents in Zlín, known at the time as Gottwaldov. According to the files she “confidently” predicted Bush’s victory to her father, who in turn passed the tip to local StB officers.

Continues…

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/29/trump-czechoslovakia-communism-spying

[Mr. Evil]

51. Maybe, at that time,

TFG's motivation was "I wanna Tr*** Tower in Moscow! I wanna Tr*** Tower in Moscow!"

The world's most useful idiot in all of human history.

[Kid Berwyn]

65. The Manchurian Moron had one major fault.

“Russia! Russia! Russia!”

[Mr. Evil]

66. OMG!

I love that pic. I'm so stealing that!

[czarjak]

71. Nyet collusion!

[Siwsan]

47. The trump family is like a 21st century reincarnation of the Borgias.

A quest for power at any cost and family members are expendable if they prove to be inconvenient.

That being said, I really believe that she took a tumble. Maybe cardiac related, maybe just a misstep.

Or, Melania finally had ENOUGH!!!

[diane in sf]

54. Wouldn't surprise me if she was self-medicating for hip pain and anxiety over her offspring

possibly ending up in prison. Self-medicating being with prescription pain pills and alcohol. Easy to fall down the stairs if she was looped and unsteady on her feet. I’d be curious to see an autopsy tox screen.

[FakeNoose]

68. Your suggestion is the most realistic thing I've seen

Of course there's a weird off-chance that Chump or Melania could have had something to do with her death. But really, neither of them had motive or opportunity. It doesn't make sense.

If Chump had any reason to do away with his ex-wife, he would have done it 30 years ago. Since then she has had 2 other husbands, and he's had 2 other wives. They've both moved on.

I'm thinking maybe alcohol had a part, maybe she had a dizzy spell on the steps, and lost her footing. The simplest explanation is USUALLY the right one. Occam's razor.

[Hekate]

48. KnR

[OneGrassRoot]

53. 👏👏👏👏👏👏 n/t

[bucolic_frolic]

55. +1

[homegirl]

56. This is an epic

tale worthy of William Shakespeare. Seems unbelievable in this century, but here we are!

Out damned spot-oh to be rid of this monster!!

[Hekate]

58. Good essay

When Ivana died I mentioned it to my husband and his first words were “They bumped her off.” That response shocked me, because he doesn’t usually say things like that. I get that from DU.

But he’s stuck to that assessment, so I showed him your post… In conversation afterward he said, “Wonder if she was going to testify? What could one of her children have confided to her? What if one of her grandchildren told her about things that were said when they were in the room?”

Let’s just say that if someone alerts on your post, it sure won’t be me.

[Scrivener7]

59. Well said! When I heard she fell down the stairs I thought, "How very Russian!" It was probably

an accident. But with this monster - and the people he is beholden to - I wouldn't assume anything. My question is why would ANYONE be sure it was an accident?

Nothing will ever come of it, and that is probably correct. But if proof came out tomorrow that someone who had something to lose wanted to send some message, it would not surprise me a bit. .

[ymetca]

63. Well, it's just like

Epstein offing himself in jail, right?

A conspiracy both "true" and "untrue" at the same time, akin to Schrodinger's Cat. Don't bother looking inside the box, despite the smell.

"Curiouser and curiouser!", as Alice says...

[Cozmo]

64. Interestingly enough, I woke up questioning how Ivana actually died, I'm very suspect

It's a little too convenient

[ultralite001]

69. With all things RTump...

Follow the $$$...

That is all...

[ultralite001]

70. The company one kept...

Ivana Trump...

Jeffrey Epstein's Black Book...

Page 54...

]

[NanceGreggs]

72. Ironically enough ...

... the most appropriate response to this entire thread is a quote from Rudy Giuliani: "We have lots of theories. We just don't have any facts."

[Cha]

73. Well Done, PCIntern! So m any

Questions!

ETA~ Reminds me that "Everything trump touches Dies".

Focus!
Please Fight to Save Our Democracy💙 in 2022 & 2024!

[orthoclad]

75. If I were connected

to the Trump family, I would have a lawyer holding a lockbox to be opened at my death.
Mary, are you listening?

Good essay. Massive conspiracies happening in the open often get ignored. Look at Jared.

[Martin68]

76. Whatever. Is there any reason that Donald would have wanted to kill Ivanka?

Is there a theory about anything she may have done or was planning to do that would impacted Donald? I haven't heard a single reason so far. I'd suggest backing off until you've got something substantive to comment on. I'd hate to see ya'll get all excited over nothing.Take a deep breath and wait for something real. Please.

[Haggis 4 Breakfast]

77. Are you SERIOUS ?????????????????????

I'm not saying I think she was murdered - but then I not saying I believe she wasn't.

But Ivana knows EVERYTHING about donald, going back decades. She knows what he has done and to whom. She knows where ALL the bodies are buried and ALL of the skeletons in his closet.

Her divorce settlement was ASTRONOMICAL for the time. Even by wealthy people standards. He didn't give her all that because he wanted her to live comfortably. He did that to ensure her compliance.

The timing of her death is too ______________ (fill in th blank).

I want to see a full tox screen from her autopsy. I want to see a copy of the visitor's log from her security. I want to know where she went in the 48 hours preceeding her death. I especially want to know how it is that she was not discovered IMMEDIATELY by her wait staff. Until I see this intel, I have my doubts about her death.

[Sogo]

78. You won't hear any complaints about your "diatribe" from me....

Agree!

[MFM008]

81. A fall down the stairs

May have changed English history.
Elizabeth l had been edging dangerously close to
Possibly marrying her great favorite, Robert Dudley
Until his wife took a flying leap down a flight of stairs.
Was it her husband who had her pushed down the stairs?Was it Elizabeth's closest advisor William Cecil that had the deed done to guarantee that Dudley would never be able to marry Elizabeth? Was it Elizabeth herself or was it due to possible illness or some sort of condition within the wife that caused the fall?
Falls downstairs are very interesting aren't they...