Let's clarify this foolishness.....

[634-5789]

[brush]

1. K&R

[mopinko]

2. or even 1 other person. ffs

things you shouldnt have to say.

[dchill]

3. What they are saying is that if I don't believe their fantasy...

...then I don't have any rights. And if I believe in some other religious fantasy? No rights. It's Taliban time in Christendom. Congratulations and Hallelujah!

[Lucky Luciano]

5. Taliban with Nukes at that.

[erronis]

6. Again, those damned xians have appropriated a Hebrew word for "praise ye JHWH"

That's all those people do - try to take over customs and idioms from earlier (and probably better) groups.

And if the RWNJs really want to emulate the Taliban, they probably should learn a bit of Arabic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhamdulillah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takbir

I doubt those pseudo-xians are really interested in other cultures though. Other than white, male, entitled, land-owners, and members of the right country clubs.

[Nevilledog]

22. ...

[Blue Owl]

4. K&R

[Fla Dem]

7. Well said.

[2naSalit]

8. I love it, except for one...

Word:

You're allowed to let your religion control your own life. But you are not allowed to make it control the entire country.

[OMGWTF]

9. Jesus: Knock, knock. Let me in.

Me: Why?

Jesus: To save you from the things I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in.

[gratuitous]

10. The short explanation

"I do X (where "X" is some personal or spiritual practice) because God told me to do X." Good for you. No problem.

"God told me to do X, so you have to do X." Problem.

[Celerity]

34. +1

[dchill]

42. He told ME not to. He told ME to do Y.

[Farmer-Rick]

11. No one needs an imaginary super Daddy in the sky

It's ridiculous that people, who believe in an imaginary being that there is no sufficient evidence for, are trying to control every woman in our country. They are controlling women with imaginary magical ideas that have no logical, social or medical purpose.

This is crazy. Religion is a scam and has always been a tool of the filthy rich to abuse others. The fact that anyone believes these myths amazes me. The fact that they use these myths to gain abusive control of people who don't believe in their magical beings is mind boggling....their silly little stories of an ancient Jewish goat herder are riddled with inconsistency and bizarre superstitious ideas.

Christians need to mind their own business, keep their supernatural idiocy to themselves and leave women's uteruses alone.

[Slammer]

46. No one needs an imaginary super Daddy in the sky

I may not need him.

But I've found great joy and comfort in Superman comic books for a number of decades.

[Wounded Bear]

12. K & R...nt

[PatSeg]

13. And what "Jesus" is it that they think

the country needs? Certainly not that guy in the New Testament, because these fools ignore pretty much everything he said and embrace most of the things he said not to do. They've hijacked the name and left behind his teachings (they do the same thing with the Founding Fathers and the Constitution). They are the kind of hypocrites that Jesus warned his followers about.

[wnylib]

31. +1000

[efhmc]

36. Exactly.

[orthoclad]

40. Old Time Religion

They want the Old Testament Jehova/Zeus patriarch, smiting enemies and putting cities to the sword.

[PatSeg]

48. Yes, the Eye-for-an-eye crowd

They don't have much use for all that new-fangled stuff like "love thy enemy" or "judge not". Apparently not big fans of sequels, but they'll use the teacher's name anyway. It has a nice ring to it.

[orthoclad]

57. Yep. Not "turn the other cheek",

"smite the other cheek".

Honestly, in Bible class when I was little, the Old Testament was more fun. More war stories. Maybe that's what sticks in the mind of some people. "Arrested development" comes to mind. They didn't teach us kids the adultery, drunkenness, rape, and incest parts, though. Nowadays, they'd be calling that "grooming".

Remember Alex in A Clockwork Orange? He went to prison and fantasized, gloried, in reading all the nasty parts of the OT. They thought he got religion and gave him a job with the prison preacher.

[PatSeg]

59. Yes, the Old Testament

was much more exciting and dramatic, as well as terribly gory and violent. You can find pretty much anything in the Old Testament, though not much spirituality.

I'd forgotten that about A Clockwork Orange. Sums it up quite well.

Welcome to DU!

[orthoclad]

60. A good argument could be made

to ban the Bible in schools and libraries, according to current book-banning standards. I think some people are making that case.

I had a "discussion" with a christofascist a few years ago. He cited the OT to say Trump, despite his serial adultery etc., was doing God's work, referring to some OT king or other. I told him his only interest was in having temporal power over other people. He was surprised that an atheist didn't care what he worshipped. I keep wishing I'd said "I don't give a damn." There is absolutely no point in trying to reason with people who think "faith" trumps reality.

They don't believe IN God; they believe they ARE God, by proxy. They only understand power.

I had more success decades ago with a Jehovah's Witness who asked me if I knew what a watchtower was. I said yes, it's a 4.77 megahertz square wave guarding against rabid raccoons. After a blank stare, we both laughed. Bypass the debate and go for the human response. Answer nonsense with nonsense.

Thanks, good to "see" you.

[PatSeg]

61. Oh, that is a really good point

There is so much in the Old Testament that the average parent would find unsuitable for children, even for a lot adults actually.

The problem I've had discussing or debating an issue with devout Christians is whenever I come up with something they can't explain, their first reaction is: "Well the Bible says blah, blah, blah." So any reasonable dialogue is immediately shut down. I've even tried using the bible as a counter-argument and all of a sudden that "Word of God", infallible book has a few passages that have been misinterpreted and need some artful clarification to adjust it to their already established beliefs.

Many years ago, I got into a discussion with a Southern Baptist minister in Texas. He was trying to save my soul (my landlord was also a Baptist minister). He actually told me that Jesus NEVER drank wine and the wine mentioned in the bible was referring to "fruit juice"! It took everything I had to not bust up laughing. I don't remember too much more of the conversation, but when he left, he looked quite befuddled and uncomfortable. I guess he'd never tried that crap on a northerner before. He never did come back and my landlord quit trying to get me to attend Wednesday night prayer meetings.

As for Jehovah's Witnesses, I have had some very good talks with a few. Like you, I went more for the human response and they relaxed and enjoyed the encounter, knowing full well that I was never going to be converted. I just treated them like people and it must have been refreshing after having so many doors slammed in their face.

Good talk!

[KPN]

55. Well said, spot on.

[PufPuf23]

14. Current American Christianity will suffer a huge blowback from this era unless

they manage to destroy the USA or much of humanity.

Just disgusting.

Christians in mass should be putting their own house in order, not bullying others to accept their hateful delusions.

[wnylib]

33. The mainline churches ARE in opposition to

what the Evangelicals are doing. Well, the mainline churches, except for Catholicism.

Within the churches, they treat the Cathogelicals as a religious and moral issue, not a political one because of separation of church and state. But their members are politically active outside of the churches, fighting against today's fascism.

[hunter]

54. The schisms in U.S. Catholic Church reflect those of the U.S.A. itself.

The Joe Biden / Nancy Pelosi Catholics have little in common with the Clarence Thomas / Brett Kavanaugh / Amy Coney Barrett "conservative" Catholics.

Most religions have embraced authoritarianism, fascism, nationalism, etc., at some point in their histories.

[KPN]

56. They are "in it to win it" or "all in" shall we say.

So that “unless” is a huge unless. We’ve got a battle on our hands. They think they are fighting a crusade — a holy war. Undoubtedly, there will be violence. The question is how much and to what extent spatially and temporarily.

[Paper Roses]

15. Could not have said it better myself. n/t

[llmart]

16. In my travels yesterday I saw a house with signs I've not seen before.

This is probably in a Trump area of my county, but where I expected to see Trump 2024 signs I saw Jesus 2024 signs.

I'll wager a bet this is the new Trumper meme. They know on some level that Trump is toxic. We've gone from Teabaggers to Trumpers to Xians, but they're still the same people.

[Mariana]

58. Jesus 2024 signs are much more disturbing and frightening than Trump 2024 signs.

The people displaying those signs are campaigning for a theocracy, and they aren't even pretending otherwise.

[Cracklin Charlie]

17. My eggs do not belong to them.

They were a gift to ME from my mother.

I get to decide.

[MustLoveBeagles]

18. K&R

[Tree Lady]

19. Amen and amen

But unfortunately until a few generations die off religion will lead since most leaders are older. More and more younger not religious.

[Rebl2]

20. Absolutely!

[EnergizedLib]

21. I've felt this way for a while now

That I am more scared of a Christofascist than I am a jihadist. I know jihadists will never get a majority into government and implement Sharia Law.

Furthermore, why should we respect the Second Amendment if they don’t respect the First?

[IronLionZion]

23. Our constitution gives us freedom from a state religion

Very first part of the first amendment and the second part is on prohibiting someone else's religion.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[AllaN01Bear]

24. my late mom warned that they have always wanted a non constitutional theocracy . not all

christians are like those fake " christians ." many of us put our money where our mouth is by doing gods work quietly unlike these folks.

[wnylib]

35. +1000

[dwilso40641]

25. We did them a favor

by making them tax exempt. Now they have lots of money to buy people and corps. Around here they are buying hospitals and Dr. offices.
They are truly the Christian Taliban.
Its time to start taxing them or they will turn us into No. Korea.

[Quanto Magnus]

26. They'd stop reading after the first sentence

eom

[czarjak]

27. Dominionism runs Deep-State.

[nakocal]

28. The people who say that we need Jesus have

never met one of his teachings that they couldn't ignore.

[IcyPeas]

29. "This is our country, not your church"

[Skittles]

32. apparently they ARE allowed to let it control the country

who exactly is going to stop the thoroughly hacked Supreme Court?

[EnergizedLib]

37. We will

We vote, we win midterms, we expand the Court and add four new liberal justices.

Well, it’s something, at least.

[Skittles]

38. repukes are working on that too

with non-stop voter suppression efforts

anyone who truly cares about America needs to VOTE Democratic

[EnergizedLib]

39. That's why we can't get discouraged

We need to want this bad enough, stand in line however long it takes and get to the polls. We must not be defeatist about this and fight against these laws.

[soldierant]

41. I'm not a historian -

my two bachekors and one masters are in other fields, and my professional like has been in still other fields.

But how much og a historian does one have to be to realize that evry theocracy which has ever existed has been a disaster for everyione within reach?

It isn't (just) that the state becomes corrupt - the church becomes even more corrupt.

[niyad]

43. Exactly.

[YoshidaYui]

44. Fuck yeah..,

I am a buddhist. If Christofascists have their way, me and my religion will be set on FIRE... AND BURNED away, or maybe I will become some one's slave, because they will bring that back as well

[keets]

45. Legally, religion needs to be

treated like the genitals.

• ILLEGAL to expose in public (what you do in you own home is your business)

• ILLEGAL to force upon others (i.e. rape)

[Bernardo de La Paz]

47. Welcome to DU. Interesting idea. . . . . nt

[hunter]

52. Casual public nudity doesn't bother me...

... but don't be pleasuring yourself in public, especially around the schoolyards and playgrounds.

Teachers who expose themselves in public schools should be fired, religious schools shouldn't get any public funding.

Welcome to DU.

[marble falls]

62. One might say that about anyone whose opinion another disagrees with.

[Frostlight]

49. Something I've been 'sharing' with the 'Hypo-Christians':

I’m Just the Messenger.

Hi. I’m an R/A in a Christian Discipleship program. For the last two years I have studied, not merely read, *studied* The Bible in depth. I have gone to the original Hebrew and Koine Greek many times in doing so. I can tell you two important things:
1) The VAST majority of today’s ‘Christians’ do not actually understand The Bible anywhere near as much as they claim to or should.
2) Today’s ‘Christians’ and their notably un-Christian attitude are WHY young people are no longer joining the Church, and why the numbers of the Church are in sharp decline.
https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/

And here is the explanation:

When the younger generations see the words and behavior of today’s Christians, they see hateful, insane people.
Now, you can argue against that until you’re blue in the face, but you might as well go outside and try to blow out the Sun… because it’s a fact whether you like it or not.
James 1: 19 If you want to save the Church.
-You are trying to tell today’s young people NOT to believe things they already know to be true. Let’s say you learn about viruses in high school biology. You see them under a microscope for yourself. You read the studies, hear the explanations, learn why the treatments work. You have been ‘educated’ about viruses.
Then a group comes along and they are going around telling everyone viruses don’t exist, it’s really ‘demons’ that cause sickness.
Having SEEN viruses and LEARNED how they work, someone is trying to *indoctrinate* you with a belief that is completely at odds with a reality you know for a fact to be true.

What do you think of those people?

They’re CRAZY.

The problem here is that most of today’s ‘Christians’ don’t know the difference between ‘education’ and ‘indoctrination’.They seem to think they’re the same because they don’t understand how ‘education’ works.
Indoctrination is me telling you that 2+2=4, and you must believe it. Since I’m an authority (such as a teacher) that you were told by another authority (your parents) to listen to, you accept what I tell you to believe. That’s ‘indoctrination’.
“Education” is when I tell you that 2+2=4, and THEN I SHOW YOU HOW 2+2=4 by taking four sticks, separating them into two sets of two each, then letting you put them all together and count them for yourself. That’s ‘education’. Now you KNOW WHY and HOW 2+2=4.
Now, if someone comes along and tries to tell you that 2+2=9, no matter how much authority they have, they sound stupid to you.

That is what you are trying to do with the younger generation. They have gay friends whom they love. They have been *educated* that it is not a ‘choice’, that they were born that way, and that they are harming no one.
Then along you guys come screeching and railing that it’s an ‘abomination’ and a ‘sickness’ and ‘against God!’. They laugh at how ridiculous you sound. It’s no different than trying to tell them that 2+2=9.

Some of you are thinking, “But what we learned from The Bible is 2+2=4! It’s a FACT!”
Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way… mostly because you don’t understand The Bible to begin with. You just believe what you were TOLD to believe about what it said, and part of that problem lies in the translations.
As I said, I’ve read the original Hebrew and Koine Greek. Sadly, contemporary translations cannot reflect the correct vernacular and culture of the times of the original events. So when you say that The Bible is the ‘inerrant Word of God’, you’re talking about the original texts, not the English translations you’re used to.
So let’s look at your justifications for hating homosexuals (you’re not fooling anyone with your ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’ line. The true love of Christ is unconditional):

The Old Testament.

If you’re quoting the OT to justify your homophobia, you’ve FAILED as Christians (We fail all the time. It’s our responsibility to learn and grow). In doing so, you’re demonstrating that you have failed to understand Peter’s vision on the road AND the whole concept of the fulfillment of the Law.
This is one of those places that Christians are shooting themselves in the foot and making complete hypocrites of themselves. There is NO justification for using the OT unless you are an orthodox Jew. Otherwise, here you are eating shellfish, getting tattoos, eating bacon cheeseburgers, wearing clothes of different fabrics, and doing SO MANY THINGS that the OT forbids that you look like complete fools when you quote Leviticus to condemn homosexuality. The sad part is that you don’t even know WHY the OT condemns it. Let me fill you in: In Deuteronomy, the Jews were in desperate straights. They were surrounded by enemies and often outnumbered. They needed to FIX that. How? By making babies and growing them into soldiers. They needed NUMBERS. Yes, God helped and guided them and delivered victory to them WHEN THEY DID WHAT THEY WERE TOLD. One of the things God told them was ‘don’t waste sperm’. “Thou shall not lie with another man as a woman” was because gay sex couldn’t result in the production of children the Jews desperately needed.
https://www.umsl.edu/~safezone/files/pdfs/Manual/14-The%20Bible%20and%20Homosexuality.pdf

Neither any of the prophets before and after Moses (in the OT) nor Christ Himself or any of his disciples who new him before the crucifixion said anything about homosexuality. That leaves two: Paul and Timothy. Timothy was instructed almost entirely by Paul. So that means ‘Just Paul’. The first thing to keep in mind is that Paul is a former Pharisee; Saul of Tarsus. He’s ingrained deeply with the Old Testament. Naturally, this means nothing given the Fulfillment of the Law, but it speaks to Paul’s inclinations. Second is Paul’s whole point: ‘Lustful behavior is wrong’. Paul is literally against marriage to begin with, 1 Corintians 7: 8-9: “8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.”
The ONLY reason Paul gives for getting married is so that you can sate your lusts without offending The Spirit. That puts ALL sexual behavior outside of marriage in the ‘forbidden’ box. Further, Paul doesn’t merely say that it’s a ‘sin’ for two men to have sex, he specifically uses the word ‘Arsenokoitai’. That was a ‘hapax legomania’ in Koine Greek at the time Paul wrote it: a word that only occurs once, and for one purpose, in a given language. Scholars are a bit confused over his use of the word, but it likely means “One who takes advantage”.
https://www.westarinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Malakoi-Arsenokoitai-3.1.pdf
That means ‘men (malokoi) taking sexual advantage of ‘call boys’(arsenokoitai) ’. Paul was specifically referring, most likely to men engaging young male prostitutes. That still doesn’t change the fact that Paul was putting ALL sexual behavior outside of marriage at the same level.

So here’s the problem: Here you guys are, screeching and clawing with fear and hatred. You’re openly panicking over something that can’t hurt you, won’t harm your families, isn’t going to ‘destroy society’ anymore than when your same historical counterparts said interracial marriage would… and young people are looking at their gay friends, who aren’t hurting or ‘pushing’ anything on anyone, not behaving any differently than they or their straight friends are (except for who they date), and then they look at you people and what do they see?

Insane, hateful, fearful, angry, dangerous HYPOCRITES.

And that, my brothers and sisters, is why the Church is disappearing ever faster with each generation. If you want to prevent that, stop hating people who aren’t harming anyone.

You just look insane.

Feel free to share. If you want to attribute it, it's by "Garth S. Croft"

[geardaddy]

50. K and effing R!

[keithbvadu2]

51. Control

[WiVoter]

53. That's It Right There

Thank you for posting! 👍🇺🇸