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Woman in Texas had started to miscarry, but her doctors couldn't perform an immediate abortion (Original Post) Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jul 2022 OP
Yep, I saw this EnergizedLib Jul 2022 #1
OMG - they are literally going to kill 2 people if they keep this up purr-rat beauty Jul 2022 #2
Sue the fuckers! applegrove Jul 2022 #3
The Texas law has an exemption for the health of the mother. Phoenix61 Jul 2022 #4
They are scared. I'm hearing talk of doctors imavoter Jul 2022 #6
They are scared. They aren't used to being held accountable. Phoenix61 Jul 2022 #8
Criminal liability for making a decision about medical care is not the same Ms. Toad Jul 2022 #12
Texas based doctors have lots of legal protection... imavoter Jul 2022 #15
Having resources to defend a malpractice case Ms. Toad Jul 2022 #18
I worked as a child abuse investigator. Phoenix61 Jul 2022 #20
Not the same. Ms. Toad Jul 2022 #23
The threat to prosecute the doctor in a Indiana was based Phoenix61 Jul 2022 #24
Yes, we're moral cowards. Thanks you for your great wisdom. elias7 Jul 2022 #16
You're most welcome. nt Phoenix61 Jul 2022 #22
Really?!? elias7 Jul 2022 #25
You left out the moral cowardice of the christofascists using the "exception" Thomas Hurt Jul 2022 #17
Of course I do. nt Phoenix61 Jul 2022 #19
The doctor could face jail time or lose his license Freddie Jul 2022 #7
A judge wouldn't be making the decision. Phoenix61 Jul 2022 #10
And worst case scenario is not a minor inconvenience of a jury trial. Ms. Toad Jul 2022 #13
this makes me so sad. imavoter Jul 2022 #5
And these are just the ones we hear about. progressoid Jul 2022 #9
Hopefully, these barbaric stories are being run in MerryBlooms Jul 2022 #11
I'm starting to collect these horror stories - Ms. Toad Jul 2022 #14
Thanks for the effort, I am grateful. MerryBlooms Jul 2022 #21

EnergizedLib

(1,898 posts)
1. Yep, I saw this
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 08:32 PM
Jul 2022

Keep posting these stories and get the word out to other people. That’s how we take charge in this debate. The fight is not over.

purr-rat beauty

(543 posts)
2. OMG - they are literally going to kill 2 people if they keep this up
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 08:34 PM
Jul 2022

if they consider the pregnancy a person! How are these medical providers protected?

Someone is putting that in place.
This will be on par with manslaughter

Phoenix61

(17,013 posts)
4. The Texas law has an exemption for the health of the mother.
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 08:51 PM
Jul 2022

This was a decision that doctor at that medical facility chose to make.

imavoter

(646 posts)
6. They are scared. I'm hearing talk of doctors
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 08:54 PM
Jul 2022

having to consult with lawyers before
making medical decisions.

Phoenix61

(17,013 posts)
8. They are scared. They aren't used to being held accountable.
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 09:00 PM
Jul 2022

They will have to write a chart note, maybe several of them, that support their decision. How often do they write notes knowing there is a high likelihood of the case going to court? Overturning Roe v Wade is beyond horrible. Learning what moral coward some doctors are is much better.

Ms. Toad

(34,086 posts)
12. Criminal liability for making a decision about medical care is not the same
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 09:09 PM
Jul 2022

as not being "used to being held accountable."

I'm guessing that you are neither a med mal lawyer, prosecutore, nor a doctor, all of whom are familiar with the disruptive consequences of a criminal prosecution - even when it is followed by a "not guilty" verdict.

Many doctors no longer practice obstetrics because of the risks which make the cost-benefit balance too costly. Add the potential for criminal liability - we'll lose many more.

This is not a matter of doctors who are moral cowards. How many times have you been asked to risk criminal prosecution for merely doing your job? If that were a daily, weekly, monthly occurrence, how long do you think you would continue to to that job.

imavoter

(646 posts)
15. Texas based doctors have lots of legal protection...
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 10:00 PM
Jul 2022

In 2017, my husband was medically injured...
too complicated to explain, but he nearly died then.
We found a lawyer to help us - which is unusual because
these cases are hard to prove even without limits
on lawsuit awards.
The firm he was going to use to fund our case backed out.
No one wanted to help us after that.
We got screwed twice, doctors/hospital and the lawyers.
No justice for my dear husband.

Although I think most doctors are looking out for their patients, some Texas doctors can and do get away with a lot.
I would think doctors are afraid of the current law, as previously stated. Also, doctors don't want the nut jobs to find out they had to help someone. Doctors get threatened a lot. The whole thing is scary.


Ms. Toad

(34,086 posts)
18. Having resources to defend a malpractice case
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 10:29 PM
Jul 2022

is not the issue.

The issue is that - win or lose - a case like this has major consequences.

It will be a criminal case, and malpractice is unlikely to mount a criminal defense. In addition, there may also be civil litigation. Cases take months, if not years, disrupting both their medical practice and their lives. Being found guiltym of a crime likely means the end of their medical career. being found either guilty of a crime, or liable in a civil case, has major implications for medical malpractice - already extremely high for obstetricians. Assuming that the practice survives to need medical malpractice.

Not to mention the literal threats to the lives of doctors by the people who have been advocating for the Dobbs decision for years.

I'm sorry about your husband's experience - and yes, medical malpractice is hard (not just in Texas). In order to prove the case, you have to find a doctor willing to testify as to the standard of care.

Phoenix61

(17,013 posts)
20. I worked as a child abuse investigator.
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 11:05 PM
Jul 2022

I was legally responsible for every decision I made so that was a daily occurrence. I’ve worked as a mental health provider and had the responsibility of deciding if some needed to be mandated to care. I did the first for over a year and the second for almost 14 years. It went with the job.

Ms. Toad

(34,086 posts)
23. Not the same.
Mon Jul 18, 2022, 12:52 AM
Jul 2022

Routine decisions about medical care are equivalent to what you do. Your decisions did not carry with them the threat of criminal prosecution under brand new, untested laws - prosecution which threatens your licensing.

Until all of these new laws are tested, any doctor performing an abortion for any reason in a state which has severely restricted abortion runs the very real risk of being prosecuted criminally. This extends to doctors in states in which abortion is less restricted - like the Indiana doctor who was criminally threatened for performing an abortion in Indiana on an Ohio child, an operation which was perfectly legal in Indiana. These laws will need to be tested in every state - and each will mean that one or more doctors is substantially sidelined temporarily or permanently until the matter is legally resolved.

Phoenix61

(17,013 posts)
24. The threat to prosecute the doctor in a Indiana was based
Mon Jul 18, 2022, 12:59 AM
Jul 2022

on the false claim she didn’t report the abortion not that she performed it. Your point on new law is duly noted. However, standards of care haven’t changed for ectopic pregnancy or partial miscarriage.

elias7

(4,026 posts)
25. Really?!?
Mon Jul 18, 2022, 06:53 AM
Jul 2022

I would try to explain to you why you’re comments are totally off base, but like trying to explain to a patient struggling to breathe who “doesn’t do Covid”, I feel like it will be like talking to a brick wall. Please remember there are many medical professionals here on DU, including me, an Emergency physician who has been on the front lines in a partly covid denying community for the past 2+ years, hopefully not displaying my “moral cowardice”, always being held accountable in ways for every decision I ever make, no matter how big or small, always writing notes with the awareness that someone could turn around and sue me if my judgment is wrong, despite my best intentions and knowledge.

Yes, overturning RvW is beyond horrible, but for us, it is a new pandemic. My interface with this decision is very likely more direct than yours. Already, I have dealt with 2 miscarriages and 1 ectopic pregnancy since the decision. Fortunately my state is blue. I cannot imagine the position a doc is placed in when they have to deal day after day with the threat of being thrown into jail, lose their license and the means of supporting their families several times a week with every threatened miscarriage or ectopic that walks into the ED. And the agony that docs go through realizing that their patient has a life or organ threatening condition that we are being pressured not to treat. It’s fucking insane, but you know, we are (hopefully) on the same team here. What has happened has been incredibly rapid and we are navigating uncharted waters.

But I am not your enemy. Please don’t treat me as such. But even if you must, I will still do my best to save your family member’s life when they are confronted with a life threatening condition.

Thomas Hurt

(13,903 posts)
17. You left out the moral cowardice of the christofascists using the "exception"
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 10:24 PM
Jul 2022

to intimidate and harrass. You think docs are the only ones able to abuse the law?

You really think that as long as the doctors toe the line on the law, the christian extremist prosecutors won't use it in as draconian a manner as possible?

You do realize that these laws are primarily about punishment yes? Not about the fetus safety or the mother's, they are about getting back at the libs after a decades long battle.

Freddie

(9,273 posts)
7. The doctor could face jail time or lose his license
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 08:56 PM
Jul 2022

If a judge later decided that the woman’s life wasn’t in “enough” danger. And possibly the doctor was restricted by the hospital administration.

Phoenix61

(17,013 posts)
10. A judge wouldn't be making the decision.
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 09:02 PM
Jul 2022

Worst case scenario is the doctor is charged and it goes to a jury trial.

Ms. Toad

(34,086 posts)
13. And worst case scenario is not a minor inconvenience of a jury trial.
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 09:12 PM
Jul 2022

Trials are a major inconvenience - especially if the doctor is charged with multiple counts - or in multiple separate cases.

A jury trial does clear ones' name - it merely concludes that there was not enough evidence to support a conviction beyone a reasonable doubt. There are consequences merely for being charged, including loss of reputation, increase in medical malpractice premiums, termination from the practice, etc.

imavoter

(646 posts)
5. this makes me so sad.
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 08:52 PM
Jul 2022

it's bad enough to lose your child,
then have to risk your health for something
not viable. Ridiculous.

progressoid

(49,996 posts)
9. And these are just the ones we hear about.
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 09:02 PM
Jul 2022

You know that there are more stories out there. And it's not going to get better.

MerryBlooms

(11,771 posts)
11. Hopefully, these barbaric stories are being run in
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 09:04 PM
Jul 2022

Major markets of DFW, Houston, San Antonio, etc... Otherwise, won't help. Unbelievable cruelty inflicted upon these women. Supporters of these horrendous laws are laughing.

Ms. Toad

(34,086 posts)
14. I'm starting to collect these horror stories -
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 09:15 PM
Jul 2022

My thought is to print them out (after verifying them), glue them to a postcared, and send them off on a regular basis to each of the six justices who concurred in the opinion, as well to my state and federal congress critters for laws in my state.

MerryBlooms

(11,771 posts)
21. Thanks for the effort, I am grateful.
Sun Jul 17, 2022, 11:24 PM
Jul 2022

I am hoping big market media is broadcasting these barbaric life threatening stories.

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