General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWoman in Texas had started to miscarry, but her doctors couldn't perform an immediate abortion
because the fetus still had a heartbeatLink to tweet
EnergizedLib
(1,898 posts)Keep posting these stories and get the word out to other people. Thats how we take charge in this debate. The fight is not over.
purr-rat beauty
(543 posts)if they consider the pregnancy a person! How are these medical providers protected?
Someone is putting that in place.
This will be on par with manslaughter
applegrove
(118,758 posts)Phoenix61
(17,013 posts)This was a decision that doctor at that medical facility chose to make.
imavoter
(646 posts)having to consult with lawyers before
making medical decisions.
Phoenix61
(17,013 posts)They will have to write a chart note, maybe several of them, that support their decision. How often do they write notes knowing there is a high likelihood of the case going to court? Overturning Roe v Wade is beyond horrible. Learning what moral coward some doctors are is much better.
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)as not being "used to being held accountable."
I'm guessing that you are neither a med mal lawyer, prosecutore, nor a doctor, all of whom are familiar with the disruptive consequences of a criminal prosecution - even when it is followed by a "not guilty" verdict.
Many doctors no longer practice obstetrics because of the risks which make the cost-benefit balance too costly. Add the potential for criminal liability - we'll lose many more.
This is not a matter of doctors who are moral cowards. How many times have you been asked to risk criminal prosecution for merely doing your job? If that were a daily, weekly, monthly occurrence, how long do you think you would continue to to that job.
imavoter
(646 posts)In 2017, my husband was medically injured...
too complicated to explain, but he nearly died then.
We found a lawyer to help us - which is unusual because
these cases are hard to prove even without limits
on lawsuit awards.
The firm he was going to use to fund our case backed out.
No one wanted to help us after that.
We got screwed twice, doctors/hospital and the lawyers.
No justice for my dear husband.
Although I think most doctors are looking out for their patients, some Texas doctors can and do get away with a lot.
I would think doctors are afraid of the current law, as previously stated. Also, doctors don't want the nut jobs to find out they had to help someone. Doctors get threatened a lot. The whole thing is scary.
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)is not the issue.
The issue is that - win or lose - a case like this has major consequences.
It will be a criminal case, and malpractice is unlikely to mount a criminal defense. In addition, there may also be civil litigation. Cases take months, if not years, disrupting both their medical practice and their lives. Being found guiltym of a crime likely means the end of their medical career. being found either guilty of a crime, or liable in a civil case, has major implications for medical malpractice - already extremely high for obstetricians. Assuming that the practice survives to need medical malpractice.
Not to mention the literal threats to the lives of doctors by the people who have been advocating for the Dobbs decision for years.
I'm sorry about your husband's experience - and yes, medical malpractice is hard (not just in Texas). In order to prove the case, you have to find a doctor willing to testify as to the standard of care.
Phoenix61
(17,013 posts)I was legally responsible for every decision I made so that was a daily occurrence. Ive worked as a mental health provider and had the responsibility of deciding if some needed to be mandated to care. I did the first for over a year and the second for almost 14 years. It went with the job.
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)Routine decisions about medical care are equivalent to what you do. Your decisions did not carry with them the threat of criminal prosecution under brand new, untested laws - prosecution which threatens your licensing.
Until all of these new laws are tested, any doctor performing an abortion for any reason in a state which has severely restricted abortion runs the very real risk of being prosecuted criminally. This extends to doctors in states in which abortion is less restricted - like the Indiana doctor who was criminally threatened for performing an abortion in Indiana on an Ohio child, an operation which was perfectly legal in Indiana. These laws will need to be tested in every state - and each will mean that one or more doctors is substantially sidelined temporarily or permanently until the matter is legally resolved.
Phoenix61
(17,013 posts)on the false claim she didnt report the abortion not that she performed it. Your point on new law is duly noted. However, standards of care havent changed for ectopic pregnancy or partial miscarriage.
elias7
(4,026 posts)Phoenix61
(17,013 posts)elias7
(4,026 posts)I would try to explain to you why youre comments are totally off base, but like trying to explain to a patient struggling to breathe who doesnt do Covid, I feel like it will be like talking to a brick wall. Please remember there are many medical professionals here on DU, including me, an Emergency physician who has been on the front lines in a partly covid denying community for the past 2+ years, hopefully not displaying my moral cowardice, always being held accountable in ways for every decision I ever make, no matter how big or small, always writing notes with the awareness that someone could turn around and sue me if my judgment is wrong, despite my best intentions and knowledge.
Yes, overturning RvW is beyond horrible, but for us, it is a new pandemic. My interface with this decision is very likely more direct than yours. Already, I have dealt with 2 miscarriages and 1 ectopic pregnancy since the decision. Fortunately my state is blue. I cannot imagine the position a doc is placed in when they have to deal day after day with the threat of being thrown into jail, lose their license and the means of supporting their families several times a week with every threatened miscarriage or ectopic that walks into the ED. And the agony that docs go through realizing that their patient has a life or organ threatening condition that we are being pressured not to treat. Its fucking insane, but you know, we are (hopefully) on the same team here. What has happened has been incredibly rapid and we are navigating uncharted waters.
But I am not your enemy. Please dont treat me as such. But even if you must, I will still do my best to save your family members life when they are confronted with a life threatening condition.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)to intimidate and harrass. You think docs are the only ones able to abuse the law?
You really think that as long as the doctors toe the line on the law, the christian extremist prosecutors won't use it in as draconian a manner as possible?
You do realize that these laws are primarily about punishment yes? Not about the fetus safety or the mother's, they are about getting back at the libs after a decades long battle.
Phoenix61
(17,013 posts)Freddie
(9,273 posts)If a judge later decided that the womans life wasnt in enough danger. And possibly the doctor was restricted by the hospital administration.
Phoenix61
(17,013 posts)Worst case scenario is the doctor is charged and it goes to a jury trial.
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)Trials are a major inconvenience - especially if the doctor is charged with multiple counts - or in multiple separate cases.
A jury trial does clear ones' name - it merely concludes that there was not enough evidence to support a conviction beyone a reasonable doubt. There are consequences merely for being charged, including loss of reputation, increase in medical malpractice premiums, termination from the practice, etc.
imavoter
(646 posts)it's bad enough to lose your child,
then have to risk your health for something
not viable. Ridiculous.
progressoid
(49,996 posts)You know that there are more stories out there. And it's not going to get better.
MerryBlooms
(11,771 posts)Major markets of DFW, Houston, San Antonio, etc... Otherwise, won't help. Unbelievable cruelty inflicted upon these women. Supporters of these horrendous laws are laughing.
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)My thought is to print them out (after verifying them), glue them to a postcared, and send them off on a regular basis to each of the six justices who concurred in the opinion, as well to my state and federal congress critters for laws in my state.
MerryBlooms
(11,771 posts)I am hoping big market media is broadcasting these barbaric life threatening stories.