Glad to see someone who wasn't a coward actually stopped a shooting

[Calculating]

Unlike those worthless bastards in Uvalde.

[Raine]

1. Yup, now that's a hero! 🎉 🌹 nt

[Skittles]

2. details?

[Frasier Balzov]

4. A civilian good guy with a gun killed the Indy mall shooter.

So has justice been done?

[Skittles]

5. if someone is killing people and gets killed, well, yeah that is some kind of justice

it is, however, sickening how many guns saturate America

[Frasier Balzov]

6. I'm not questioning whether the shooter deserved his death.

I'm questioning whether the people who were killed and injured by the shooter deserved better.

[Skittles]

12. why are you questioning that

you know what? never freaking mind

[Nevilledog]

3. I get no comfort from the idea that my life might depend on an untrained civilian.

Shootouts are going to become common, and these good citizens are going to accidentally kill bystanders. It's inevitable.

[Straw Man]

7. How much comfort do you get ...

... from the idea that your life might depend on police like those in Uvalde, or the esteemed NYPD, who hit nine bystanders in taking down one shooter, who, incidentally, wasn't an active shooter but had committed a revenge killing and was escaping?

https://www.google.com/search?q=nypd+empire+state+building+shooting

[Raine]

13. I don't either but after seeing those cowardly worthless cops

I will never depend on the police, not even for directions.

[Kaleva]

18. If the guy has a licenses to conceal carry, he had some kind of training.

Some of these guys put in a lot of time and money into training.

I just looked at the NRA site for applicable courses and it'd cost a few hundred to attend them all.


NRA Defensive Pistol
NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course - Instructor Led Only
NRA Basics of Personal Protection Outside The Home Course
NRA Basic Personal Protection In The Home Course
Gun Safety Seminar
NRA Home Firearm Safety Course

Then you add the cost and time going to the range tp practice.

[Nevilledog]

28. Indiana requires NO permit for concealed carry

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/concealed-carry-in-indiana/

In 2022, Indiana repealed its longstanding law that required a person carrying a concealed firearm in public to obtain a license and background check.1 As of July 1, 2022, anyone 18 years-of-age or older who is not prohibited from firearm possession by state or federal law may generally carry a concealed handgun in public.2



Went into effect July 1st.

I see nothing that requires any training.

[Kaleva]

31. Michigan and many other states do require some training

And quite a number get training on their own violation even if not required to do so.

Maybe later I'll look at what NRA training is offered in Indiana. If courses are available, I imagine there is a demand for such even if the state doesn't require it.

I took a course here in Michigan even though I don't conceal carry in public because I wanted the training.

[Nevilledog]

33. I am unwilling to assume anyone carrying has safety training.

[Kaleva]

34. But you agree that some to many do?

The fact that Indiana doesn't require trying doesn't mean no one has training.

[Nevilledog]

35. Big difference between some and many.

Regardless, we've seen how highly trained officers handle active shooter situations.

The reason the gun laws were loosened was so people didn't have to get training.

I'm not sure you're making the point you think you're making.

[Kaleva]

36. People don't have to get the training but a lot do

Last edited Mon Jul 18, 2022, 03:38 PM - Edit history (1)

Gun ranges couldn't survive if they only had customers that had to be there. The NRA offers a number of courses because of demand. .. They wouldn't offer them for a fee if people took only the one course that many states mandate.


Like I said earlier, I'll look at what is offered in Indiana and I'll let you know what I find.

[Nevilledog]

39. And what I'm saying is it doesn't matter.

The guy who killed the shooter was carrying his weapon in a mall where it was prohibited. We're in a situation where people are just doing whatever they want with guns. The training opportunities for people who, by law, are not required to avail themselves of, is just not relevant.

What we're going to start seeing is shootouts amongst civilians where one thinks they're a "good guy with a gun". And bystanders will be killed or injured by the good guy. Heck, this weekend cops shot & injured 5 bystanders by shooting into crowded downtown Denver and witnesses say they didn't even see the police's target have a gun. And those are highly trained individuals.

More guns means more shootings and more deaths and injuries. Training won't be the deciding factor. Cops will become even more deadly because they are going to assume everyone is armed and they are so highly focused on "officer safety" over the safety of others.

I think I'm done with this. We just see things from very different perspectives.

[Richard D]

8. I wonder how long it'll be until there's...

... A public mass shooting between two good guys with guns.

[dcweed]

9. Here we go...

...along the path laid out for us
The "good guy" justification for more guns
The path is well marked
By bullet casings and bodies

[Scrivener7]

16. This.

[Mad_Machine76]

32. +1

[rockfordfile]

10. It's cowardly to not want try to stop that to begin with.

Ban AR-15s no reason to own one unless you're a nutjob.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

23. Wait a minute here,

are you saying that only nutjobs should be able to own one?

Ban AR-15s no reason to own one unless you're a nutjob.

I'm just kidding, I know what you meant, but the way you worded it could be interpreted differently.

Have a great week.

[pnwmom]

11. I'm not really. It justifies the slogan "a good guy with a gun. . . "

So it happened once. But 376 "good guys" with guns couldn't go after another AR-15 shooter, so I don't think arming civilian "good guys" is the answer.

[Kaleva]

19. Some wanted to go in but were held back

[markie]

14. if only

nobody had guns...

[Earth-shine]

15. A great place to go, but you can't get there from here. nt

[mainer]

17. I have no problem with armed CCW carriers

They’ve passed a lot of hurdles to get that permit. They are most likely trained and responsible gun owners. I wonder if this good guy was one.

If we could just restrict gun ownership to them, we could protect 2nd amendment rights while cutting down on gun violence.

[rgbecker]

20. 20 states require no permit. Still feeling safe?

[link:https://everytownresearch.org/report/permitless-carry-carrying-a-concealed-gun-in-public-with-no-permit-and-no-training/|


"For over a century, states have recognized the public safety benefits of requiring a permit to carry concealed guns. Yet over the last decade, the gun lobby has been promoting legislation to allow people to carry concealed guns in public places without a permit, background check, or safety training, dismantling the system of responsible gun ownership. Indeed, twenty states have completely eliminated their concealed carry permit requirement since 2015. These permitless carry bills lower the bar for who may carry hidden handguns in public and allow untrained and unvetted people to carry concealed guns in parks, shopping malls, crowded town centers, and on city streets."

[ok_cpu]

22. IIRC, Indiana changed to permit less carry this year

While it's good that someone was able to stop this shooting, three people who just wanted to shop on a Sunday are dead as a result of our national obsession with guns.

I don't know how anyone feels safe. Your gun isn't going to protect you if you draw second or are overwhelmed with military hardware.

[Demsrule86]

25. I am glad lives were saved...sad that it has come to this.

[mainer]

29. It only works with strict CCW permits.

Before the NRA screwed things up, NY state and MA kept those standards high. Now it’s a free for all, and it’s much less safe.

[Walleye]

21. What our lives really depend on is that most people behave in a civilized manner

The more hatred that is fomented the more shootings we will have.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

24. And we all know who's fomenting that hatred.

[Walleye]

27. 👆

[AngryOldDem]

37. Could not agree more.

[Emile]

26. How many shots did this hero take before

hitting his target? Did he accidentally shoot anyone?

More guns is not the answer!

[Mosby]

38. There was a guy at the Giffords shooting who was carrying

He said he almost shot the wrong person.

Then there was the time in a Walmart where an armed customer confronted a shooter, he was shot and killed by the shooters wife, who he hadn't identified.

More guns are not a solution.

[sarisataka]

30. It seems there are differing opinions

I wonder, sometimes, what is the real priority.