Americans Who Can't Afford Homes Are Moving to Europe Instead

[brooklynite]

Bloomberg

More Americans are relocating to Europe, driven across the Atlantic by the rising cost of living, inflated house prices, a surging dollar and political rancor at home.

Italy, Portugal, Spain, Greece and France are among the most popular destinations. Sotheby’s International Realty said requests from Americans looking to move to Greece rose 40% in the April-to-June period compared to a year earlier. In France and Italy, US demand is the highest it’s been in at least three years, according to Knight Frank real estate specialist Jack Harris. And Americans made up 12% of Sotheby’s Italian revenue in the first quarter, compared to just 5% in the same period a year ago.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

1. Keep in mind, the very poor can't even begin to afford to move to Europe.

This is a stupid story.

[shrike3]

24. This. n/t

[RobinA]

30. I Don't Like

any of these Americans moving to _____ stories. They make it sound like you can just move there if the spirit moves you. Which most people can't, even if they have the money. You have to meet certain criteria to live there permanently, to work there, to be able to get medical care there... From what I've found, without family connections, if you can move there relatively easily you probably don't want to.

[Violet_Crumble]

37. Me neither. It makes Americans think they'd be welcome everywhere they want to go...

The reality is, at least where I live, that they've got to compete with everyone else and if they don't have a whole lot of stuff going for them (employability in a field where there's a shortage, family, etc) then they won't get a look in. Most of the 'Americans can move anywhere they want!' stories don't mention the painful bureaucratic hoops that need to be jumped through just to apply for residency. And after all that if they succeed, they need to keep in mind that unless they have a very strong family and social support network they're going to flounder in a country that doesn't have the same culture as theirs...

[uponit7771]

36. +1, they can't afford a McLaren so they're buying Bentley's is the height of privileged

[FoxNewsSucks]

2. If they can't afford a house,

how can they afford to move to a different country? I thought other countries, like Canada, wouldn't take American immigrants. Do European countries?

[comradebillyboy]

5. If you have money you are welcome anywhere in the world.

On average, food, housing and energy are all substantially less expensive in the US. The US has lower unemployment, better pay and a lower cost of living than most places in Europe. These emigrees are financially quite well to do.

[Violet_Crumble]

35. That's not correct, at least not for Australia...

Being able to support yourself would help, but if you aren't employed in a field that's needed, you won't be allowed to move here....

[Celerity]

39. incorrect in many cases

Many countries here pay better than the US for many jobs, especially on the lower end of the spectrum.

The cost of living completely depends on what you are comparing, plus US dwellers overall get a right proper bollocksing on health care costs.

Also, it is not at all only rich Americans who end up moving here.

[Mr.Bill]

3. I don't think real estate is really cheaper in Europe than here.

I know gasoline right now is about double there what it is here.

[comradebillyboy]

4. Housing in Europe is cheaper than the US? I'd be very surprised.

It's certainly not the lumpenproletariat emigrating to Europe.

[ripcord]

6. I had to move to the very red Southern California high desert to get an affordable home

$318,000 for 5 acres, an 1800 sqft mobile home, 2 car garage and a small metal workshop, the average price in the burbs for a cookie cutter house on a postage stamp lot is $750,000.

[bluecollar2]

8. Whereabouts?

Thinking of leaving Florida and returning to California.

[ripcord]

26. I'm in Phelan which in north of Wrightwood down in the desert

It is all creosote bushes, Joshua trees and Trump supporters.

[halobeam]

9. middle class has 500k to invest in a company?

plus then they have their life savings, 401k, IRA, left to put into Fiat shares?

I thought middle class was poor, but no debt. At best?
I certainly can be wrong about this, but I can't imagine anyone in middle class having all that.

[Sympthsical]

20. Technical definition of middle class

Is someone making two thirds to twice the median income.

In America, that would include people making $52,000 to $156,000 a year.

It's more than possible for people who are making six figures to have accumulated $500,000 in assets over time. Think about California where median single family homes are $900k.

If I were a guessing person, I'd imagine this article refers to retirees who largely paid off their mortgages and are liquidating assets and moving. I have friends in tech who do similar while staying in America. A software engineer friend who is 45 sold his condo last year valued at around $700k in S.F. and bought a house in Utah for $200k. Mix in his retirement/investments, and he plans to work part time until a somewhat early retirement. You see a lot of tech people doing this in their 40s these days.

Even I, who am very much middle class in my early 40s, am now sitting on a lot equity. My house value increased 40% since 2019. Because apparently that's how California do. If I liquidated tomorrow, I could do very similar to my friend. Of course, I'm an idiot and changing careers with the plan to work for another twenty five years.

But I like working. I get bored easily otherwise.

[Kaleva]

10. One could do that in Upper Michigan

Buy a nice home for 100k or less and not have to have 500k to buy stock with to get resident status.

[wishstar]

12. Much of Upstate NY has cheap houses too although property taxes are high

but the winters are rough which is why I have lived in NC for many years. When I sold my parents' house in NY, it brought only 1/4 of what an identical home would bring in a similar area of NC.

[Kaleva]

16. I pay a little over $1100 a year in property taxes

[Celerity]

38. +10000

[Kaleva]

41. The OP was about people unable to find affordable housing here.

One can do that here without having to have half a million to buy stock.

Upper Michigan is great for those who love four seasons, rural or small town life, affordable homes, low property taxes and such .

[DFW]

11. It's not like moving to the next county over

This is something that requires substantial financial resources, and even then, the EU doesn‘t hand out residence (let alone work) permits to just anyone. Set aside the raging fires for the moment.

This is a process I went through from start to finish, and I had the advantage of being married to an EU citizen since 1982. It is anything BUT automatic, and there is more involved than just flashing a wad of money in their faces. They want written documented proof of financial stability, health insurance, good health, a guaranteed job, before they even consider a work permit. You will have file tax returns in both the USA as well as your new country because out of exactly TWO countries on earth that do NOT recognize residence-based taxation, the USA is one of them (the other is Eritrea). Most EU countries will also require language proficiency in at least one of their official languages, in cases where a country has more than one, such as Belgium, Finland, or non-EU Switzerland. By the way, if you‘re looking at Finland, learn Swedish! Finnish is impossible.

Anyone who thinks all they have to do is pack their bags, sell the house, and be welcomed with open arms has a very sobering surprise waiting for them when they get off the plane. Unless it‘s Greece or Portugal, the cost of living will come as a rude awakening as well.

The old saying is true: If it were THAT easy, don‘t you think everyone else would have done it long before you thought of it?

[Thtwudbeme]

14. It's incrediby sad for the US- but I think we are going to be seeing a "brain drain" here

over the next decade. Young educated folks are going to be looking for jobs either outside the US, or in states that are not controlled by the facists. The US is going to go through a destabilizing period as states such as Mississippi and Texas lose money- including tourist dollars.

We are already seeing the beginning; those news reports of people leaving those states due to the draconian laws are just a snippet. We want to drive out to the Grand Canyon next year. We used to love stopping in Texas to visit San Antonio (yes, from NC- we take the long route always)....now we will not. We'll cross Texas at the panhandle and only stop for gas. All those cute little towns we stopped in OK, etc? Nope. Get a hotel, get up, gas up and leave.

We are in a civil war now- but this time it is going to be people voting with their UHauls...and there is no way states like Texas or Florida will "win." So, it will be "rich areas" vs "poor."

In NC, you'll be able to see that by county. You already can, but it will be more pronounced and sad.

[DFW]

19. That is an acute danger, too, but we still have an edge there

Because of crushing bureaucracy and far higher taxes, most EU countries stifle initiative and innovation. Very few entrepreneurs make it in the EU compared with the USA, which still encourages initiative and innovation to a greater degree, and doesn't institute punishing taxes at a very low threshold. In Germany, for example, to reach the theoretical top bracket of 42%--in reality 47% due to the still applied "solidarity surcharge"-- it kicks in at about $60,000 (€58,597 to be precise) in gross income. In the USA, the top marginal rate of 37% doesn't kick in until about $314,000. Plus, in the USA, there is no Value Added Tax of 19% (and that's at the low end of EU VAT) on all goods and services. Due to a lack of updates to the Double Taxation Treaties, if you still receive certain kinds of income in the USA, you risk getting taxed on that income in BOTH countries, leaving little left over.

As you noted, in the USA, there are still areas where the brain drain can flee without crossing a national border. Texas isn't quite as bad as Mississippi, since it has islands of civilized, business/academic friendly communities, such as Dallas, Houston, Austin and El Paso. Of course, I called to my head office in Dallas yesterday, and heard it was 115° F, and they were sanding the highways to keep the asphalt from melting. I am currently still in Truro, Massachusetts ("Taxachusetts," as it is called by some who live here), where it was about 80° during the day, and 68° in the evening. The prices for food are close to insultingly high, but we just sigh, and remember it is tourist season, and the businesses here have about 12 weeks during which they have to earn 90% of what they need to earn for the whole year, since Cape Cod is virtually deserted from Labor Day to June. Some say, it gets returned to the Cape Codders after Labor Day, and they get their home back until next June. Maybe prices come down to levels where the Cape Codders can afford to live here again, I wouldn't know. I still work for a living, and have to get back to Europe, and work to be able to afford to come here again next year.

Some states, very notably, as you pointed out, like North Carolina, will end up divided into have/have not counties. There will be counties dominated by books, ideas, schools and startups. The rest will have guns, bullets, and whackos. Virginia is headed that way, as well, and it appears Pennsylvania is already there. Unfortunately, it isn't practical to erect borders to keep the gun-toting goons from driving to County Cool from their homes in County Crap. Just ask any Texan.

[JonAndKatePlusABird]

23. Working for a global multinational has opened my eyes

It’s fascinating because even though we are one company, local business units obviously have to comply with local laws and regulations. And local offices will be composed of residents of those places, so to say there is a variety of office cultures is an understatement.

Germany in particular though, wow! So. Many. Rules. I’m sure I’m breaking some rule somewhere by posting this post.

That said, I agree and support many EU laws, specifically around consumer and worker protections. They certainly haven’t slowed us down and prevented us from turning a profit.

But there are also lots of rules that are simply Kafkaesque. Like a jobs security program for middling bureaucrats that have never encountered anything besides the bureaucracy.

[shrike3]

28. I remember reading a bio of Mary Shelley and understanding why America was so attractive

In Europe, you were stuck where you were born. No wonder so many, especially the poor, were drawn to the New World.

I realize Europe is not Old Europe. But it sounds as if America is still the land of opportunity for some.

And I agree completely that there will be have and have not counties. We're seeing that already in the Midwest.

[Celerity]

40. very much false now (and Mary Shelley? She was born in 1797, time to update your reference points)

In Europe, you were stuck where you were born.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/

[shrike3]

44. LOL. Of course she was born in 1797.

I was speaking in general terms: America's lure to those who were stuck in a place that was not very nice. Shelley's bio, whether it intended to or not, depicted frustration. One's options were limited: all depended on when and where one was born. Especially when it came to the very poor. Why they shoved themselves in ships and sailed to the New World year after year.

[shrike3]

25. Thanks for the dose of reality. n/t

[Hekate]

43. Thanks for the voice of experience -- and reality

[Joinfortmill]

13. I'd go in a nano second if I was a bit younger.

[GoodRaisin]

34. My 70 yo former next door neighbor just sold his home and moved to Portugal.

He’s in a lot better shape than me though.

[betsuni]

15. Oh right, high European taxes and prices -- only rich people.

I'm so sure.

[msfiddlestix]

17. LOL!

[Victor_c3]

18. Many spots in Europe certainly are more affordable

The cost of living is roughly 54% higher in the US than Portugal

https://getgoldenvisa.com/cost-of-living-in-portugal-vs-usa#ftoc-eating-out-and-alcohol

Ireland and France (outside of the major cities) are two other countries that are more affordable to live in than the US. Some of these countries have tax treaties with the US (meaning you don’t have to pay income tax on retirement benefits) and they allow your Medicare to buy into their socialized medicine system.

If you worked and lived in an area where the cost of living is quite high, your retirement money will go a lot further some European countries than in the US.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

21. Lol, they can afford a house, just not the house they WANT.

[Jack the Greater]

22. Last year this same story ran, but the details were different.

People from the Bay Area Who Can't Afford Homes Are Moving to Fresno Instead

Rents and home prices doubled. Needless to say, the locals were not amused.

[Zeitghost]

27. I'm not sure Americans priced out of the housing market

Are moving to Europe and buying houses through Sotheby's. Just a hunch.

[shrike3]

29. Good hunch. n/t

[greenjar_01]

47. Only in the DC-Carroll Gardens social circle

Hamptons Garden Party Set buying a little pied-à-terre in Firenze.

Clown story.

[bif]

31. Sounds very tempting.

It's certainly in the back of my mind. In a year or two, I may be joining them.

[Deep State Witch]

32. If I didn't have elderly relatives

I'd be looking to move to Europe. Of course, my aunt would be happy to move to Italy or Croatia with us

[Hekate]

42. Europe's having major troubles with heat, fires, & all that, so good luck. I know the American Dream

…is owning a house in a leafy suburb, but we may have to modify that quite a bit in the future. Leaving the country just to buy a house doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Now, leaving the country because we’re becoming Gilead… that’s a different kettle of fish.

[treestar]

45. Europe doesn't have the inflation?

They have the gas prices.

How anyone who can't afford a house in the US can afford one in Europe is a mystery. Let alone the travel costs.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

46. All good as long as they still vote !

Housing is crazy. I live in a bedroom community of Portland Or, our house has gone up in value almost double in the 6 years we have lived in it. This is not sustainable.