Why is Kamala Harris passed over in discussions about presidential possibilities?

[bigtree]

...I think President Biden will run, and I'm not a fan of making predictions at this stage, with the president assumed to be up for a second-term run.

But its interesting to me to see Vice President Harris out of those conversations. Even more interesting to see the discussions this month center around a white man from California (coincidently the VP's home state), especially when we've yet to have achieved the election of a woman president.

Can't recall when a Democratic VP wasn't considered the heir apparent to the presidency after two terms, and noticing how little consideration and attention is being given the nation's first woman vice president.

Imo, voters made the pragmatically 'safe' choice of a political veteran, a white male, in picking our current president. Presdient Biden as an incumbent would still be the best course for '24, still a historic presidency with Kamala Harris as his second.

But I can clearly see the dearth of interest expressed by the folks looking to make '24 happen right now, even as we face the daunting task of holding and expanding our majorities in the national legislature, in anyone but white males.

Just thought I'd come forward and express how much of a non-starter those choices are for me, personally, now and in the future, and hoping more people feel the same.

[mcar]

1. Sexism and racism, IMO

[Polybius]

9. Perhaps some, but not the majority

Harris was my last choice in 2020. My first choice was Warren (woman) followed by Booker (African American).

[JI7]

126. Warren and Booker also didn't do well

[SickOfTheOnePct]

27. The people who reject her

due to sexism and racism are most likely Republicans, so wouldn't have a say in the Democratic nomination anyway.

Much more likely that it has to do with the fact that when she ran for President in 2020, she didn't even last long enough to make it to the first primary. And the constant media drumbeat about how hard she is to work for/work with, along with a steady drip drip drip of people leaving her employ does nothing to make her seem like a good Presidential candidate.

[uponit7771]

61. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾

[pnwmom]

92. And she's hurt by the low popularity of the current President, even though

that's not their fault.

[mcar]

108. She is held to an entirely different standard than her predecessors

[samnsara]

143. i tend to dismiss these polls as being anywhere near accurate

with as much as joe has done for us and to save our lives..anyone at this point who professes to be a dem and gives him low scores on a poll is a left over bro and i blame them 100% for giving us trump

[betsuni]

146. +1

[BlackSkimmer]

123. More sexism imo, especially here.

Both, when applied to the big wide world.

[MOMFUDSKI]

124. BAM!

In a nutshell. Over and out.

[cilla4progress]

2. I know. Ugh.

Realities of electoral politics?

Sense she hasn't gained traction in terms of popularity?

[Walleye]

3. Because she's a woman. Look what they did to Hillary.

Can you imagine the right wing slander machine against Kamala as a candidate. Personally I think she’d be great. But I think many others would whither under the attacks. There were even some Democrats who believed the lies about Hillary

[Zeitghost]

38. Were talking about the primary, not the general

Hillary had no problem winning the Democratic primary and I'm not sure the right wing slander machine has much sway with Democratic voters. Harris struggled in the last primary, 4 years as VP will certainly help her out should the need arise; but, it's not unreasonable to believe she might not be among the top picks.

[Walleye]

42. Oh I think she should be the top pick too but I don't think she would win the general election

Not at this point. Maybe in 2024 things will look different. But only if we work hard and defeat the Republican slander machine

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

119. Didn't Hillary have trouble with one Dem primary? There was this guy named Obama...

[Wounded Bear]

4. All part of the master plan...

Biden/Harris in '24. Biden retires after two years, Kamala takes over and gets to run as an incumbent, twice.

[hydrolastic]

26. Bear! This is my theory also.

I see it in my shop at work. There is already huge resistance already being put in place.

[SheltieLover]

5. Because she is a strong, competent woman. They will Hillary her. 🤬

[Walleye]

43. Thanks,that's what I was trying to say.

[SheltieLover]

45. Yw

Sad fact, but we need a candidate rural folks have no reason not to vote for.

I can't even tell you how many rural folks in 2016 said, "you can't never trust a wooooman to run things." Men and women!

How do magat women get so stupid????

[Walleye]

47. Remember, we only won the right to vote 100 years ago After my mom was born

[SheltieLover]

95. I wonder how long till SCOTUS tries to revokd

[Rebl2]

83. Most likely

Unfortunately

[SheltieLover]

96. Pretty much guaranteed

[betsuni]

148. +1

[Hugh_Lebowski]

6. For my part at this point all I care about is winning, not the identity politics involved

But I'm not the most PC guy around, so ... others will likely disagree with my stance.

[comradebillyboy]

29. In the immortal words of Vince Lombardi "Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing."

And most Democrats don't see Kamala Harris as being able to win. Her performance in the 2020 primaries might be why. I had high hopes for her in the primaries but her actual performance was disappointing to say the least. Being smart and competent isn't enough.

[lindysalsagal]

188. We can't afford to lose this next potus. So, I'm afraid, even though I really like her,

and she'd be awesome, you may be right.

[MrsCoffee]

135. Identity politics is the dismissive term for what we used to call 'civil rights' and 'equality'.

To quote Samantha Bee.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

180. I meant I don't care about which gender or skin color the people have

Nor their sexual orientation, nor their religion.

I want the pair of Democrats that have the best chance of winning

[Polybius]

7. Because she did abysmal in 2020

Voters preferred almost every other candidate that ran.

[bigtree]

19. but we're seeing calls for losing candidates like Buttigieg to run

Last edited Sat Jul 23, 2022, 12:25 PM - Edit history (1)

...even Biden lost a presidential primary race.

So what are we really talking about here?

[pinkstarburst]

24. Buttigieg did far better than Harris

[Demsrule86]

132. True but he won one caucus state...and we should not even have caucuses anywhere. I doubt

Buttigieg could win a primary at this time...maybe in a better America some years from now he might. But he definitely has to increase support from African American voters.

[Demsrule86]

184. He won a caucus state and had no AA support. I like the guy but he be can't be our nominee maybe

someday with age and experience. And maybe then we will be able to elect a Gay man or woman in a better version of America. But he still needs AA support.

[Polybius]

39. Pete was a small town Mayor who did surprisingly well in 2020, much better than Harris

He is also a phenomenal speaker, and very likeable.

[MichMan]

48. VP Harris isn't?

[Polybius]

67. Nope

[elleng]

55. 'a phenomenal speaker, and very likeable'

critically important. Sadly, VPotus Harris does not have his dynamism.

[mcar]

79. And VP Harris isn't?

[Polybius]

170. Nope

[mcar]

171. Sure. Whatever.

[betsuni]

177. Suddenly, the opposite of a populist is a phenomenal speaker and likable.

Buttigieg is wonky, educated, intelligent, explains things at length and in detail without cheap slogans and yelling. What some people claim is wrong with Democrats and their messaging.

[Demsrule86]

52. I would not support Buttigieg in a primary either...I wish this country was ready to elect a

Gay president or even vice-president, but we are not there yet. Also, Buttigieg does not have the experience needed to be president.

[The Revolution]

159. We are?

Honestly I can't recall hearing anyone in person, online, or on TV calling for Buttigieg to run in 2024. Maybe you can find an example, but I don't think this is any kind of movement right now.

[thatdemguy]

56. This is the way I am leaning.

She had incredibly low support during the primary stuff. I think those who truely control this ( not the voters, the DNC ) think she is not the best choice due to not energizing the voters during the primaries.

[uponit7771]

63. She was less qualified and you know that or should know that

[ZonkerHarris]

94. I love her, supported her, and I can admit she ran a bad campaign. Started with her bumper sticker

The yellow purple salmon colored one with KAMALA on it.

Holy fuck who authorized that, and not a HARRIS 2020 in red white and blue?

seriously WTF

[kcr]

8. Because

Black woman candidate is scrutinized and criticized every little inch while her outstanding qualities are flat-out ignored. White man candidate pets a kitten and everyone goes wild.

[mcar]

80. This.

[JI7]

128. +++++++++++++

[DakotaSnow]

10. I think

I think it goes back to the 2020 Dem primaries and her inability to gather hardly any support. She ended up dropping out before they truly began. And we're back there again. She still doesn't inspire much support across the broad spectrum of Democrats.

I know that's not a popular opinion on DU, but just my thoughts. From my circle of family/friends/co-workers who are Dems, they're looking elsewhere, if not Joe.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

11. We have a

better chance with Stacey Abraham than Kamala Harris... IMO

[bigtree]

23. someone who has never been elected to a national office

...unlike Kamala Harris.

The first female vice president and the highest-ranking female official in U.S. history, as well as the first African American and first Asian American vice president.

[mcar]

81. "I want a woman President"

"Just not that woman."

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

118. That reminds me of a candidate named "Palin"

Yeah, only a veep, but a heartbeat away ...



Yes, not "that woman".

[mcar]

120. Are you comparing VP Harris to Sarah Palin?

[comradebillyboy]

32. Stacy Abrams is a wonderful person but she needs to show that

she can win an election. If she beats Kemp in November that would be a big step forward for her presidential ambitions.

[BlackSkimmer]

149. Stacy ABRAHAM?

Oh dear.

[karynnj]

12. Can't recall when a Democratic VP wasn't considered the heir apparent to the presidency after two te

I can --- Joe Biden -- for 2016.

On everything else, I completely agree with you. 2028 is a very long time from now, but I far prefer Kamala Harris to Gavin Newsom, who has some baggage in addition to his pluses, and I expect that in the next 6 years, she will be seen as stronger than she is now.

[xmas74]

36. I do think in 2016 he needed that time off.

He needed time to mourn and to heal away from the public eye. I'd say that about any candidate who went through what he did, especially in such a public position. Beau's death was far too fresh.

[karynnj]

44. True, but it was clear from when HRC stepped down after one term as SoS, that she was the clear

heir supported by almost the entire Democratic power structure. So, much, that it seemed that their had likely been an agreement in 2008 that for full hearted Clinton support (both), she was to be nominated as SoS and supported in 2016 for President. Well before Beau died, many stories suggested that - like Cheney, Biden had no intention to run. (The difference is Biden had run for President in 2008 and earlier)

Even after Beau died, there was a point where Biden "tested the water" and it was not positive.

[bucolic_frolic]

13. I think the filter of race should be excluded from any discussions, on both sides

We need candidates that will win, and to win we need candidates that voters in the aggregate will vote for. Tagging each candidate with their identifiers does not serve our cause well. You don't want racism, and then you filter by race.

[DakotaSnow]

22. Agree

Too much is put into race, rather than policy, accomplishments, vision for the future.

[comradebillyboy]

35. One simply cannot ignore the fact that race will be a factor in

American politics. Pretending otherwise is a recipe for failure.

[MichMan]

50. That will be a great message to our African American base

Finally have a Black woman VP, but when it's her turn she's not good enough.

[Demsrule86]

53. The base didn't choose her in 2020.

[BlackSkimmer]

152. Spot on.

Thank you.

I was a big fan of Kamela, but none of my black women friends were.

[Demsrule86]

168. I know same here...there was a lukewarm response here in Cleveland to Ms. Harris. I was a Biden

supporter so was mad about...the I was that girl thing which was silly of me...But she is a good person and I am pleased to have her a heartbeat away from the presidency...and she would do just fine.

[BannonsLiver]

14. Because when she ran in 2020 it was a non event?

Did you miss the 2020 nominating campaign? Spoiler alert: She didn’t even get out of the gate.

You can’t stand Gavin Newsom. We get it already. 🙄

[bigtree]

28. I wrote as much praise for him as a resident of Maryland can possibly muster

...I wrote that he's good for California, and has managed their long-running Democratic majority like a champ.

But I also wrote that his accomplishments there aren't analagous to making it on the national stage, or actually confronting republicans with the slim majorities (and the 2 defections) we have now. Not even close.

That's doesn't say 'can’t stand Gavin Newsom,' no matter how much you can't stand someone expressing their opinion of his political viability.

[BannonsLiver]

33. Whatever.

You were big mad in the Newsom thread the other day, complaining bitterly about the “hype” and now are apparently so irritated that you started a thread about it. No problem if you can’t stand the guy. I don’t like every Dem pol either.

[bigtree]

40. no truth in that

...I wrote enough words of praise for what he has in his state, and expressed that he hasn't earned the praise due to the people in the trenches in our party fighting against real republican opposition.

I've never expressed that 'I don't like the guy,' anywhere, at any time. You're posting an absolute falsehood which you can't back up with ANYTHING I've written.

Weird how you insist on misrepresenting my views. I get that it's easier to claim I don't like the man than actually respond to what I wrote. California isn't representative of the fight we're waging right now, and Newsom is a political neophyte to the national stage.

That's not 'dislike, ' it's (apparently) an uncomfortable reality for those pushing him up the '24 political hill.

[BannonsLiver]

76. LOL.

“California isn't representative of the fight we're waging right now,”

Well it’s a good thing Kamala Harris is from the rust belt. There would be no need to “push her up a political hill.”

Does stepping on rakes hurt?

[bigtree]

174. no, California has had a Democratic majority, with a few exceptions, for decades

...it is not analagous to the fight in Congress right now.

Kamala Harris has served as the attorney general of Ca., but also in the national legislature and in the White House.

Gavin Newsom's political experience is limited to his state.

Those are the correct analogies - not where they hail from, but what their political experience has been.

[Demsrule86]

185. + 10000 I like Newsome but don't see him winning the presidency.

[Crazyleftie]

15. Not that is dislike her

but the reality is for whatever reasons(political, sexist, perception) she is unelectable

[moonscape]

16. I would love a woman president. I'm a fan

of Elizabeth Warren. I just haven’t seen any evidence that Kamala could win. She did poorly against other dem women in the primary and has approval lower than Joe’s. Is there discrimination against women? Of course. I know, I am one. But we need someone right now who is charismaic and galvanizing (think Obama) and Kamala has not shown to be. Dangerous times.

btw fwiw - I don’t think Newsom is our best shot either, and I live in CA.

[lindysalsagal]

186. +1

[BeyondGeography]

17. 7th place finish in 2020 when she fell like a rock in the polls?

Seems like a good reason to be skeptical at the very least.

[CTyankee]

18. because some unwell people think she "cackles." Like my next door neighbor.

He also thinks the women on "The View" cackle.

Perhaps he feels that nice ladies don't cackle.

[Iggo]

20. Two reasons. (n/t)

[pinkstarburst]

21. She did not do well in 2020

Can't recall when a Democratic VP wasn't considered the heir apparent to the presidency

I don't have a problem with Harris. She is not in my top three choices for 2024 potential candidates, but if she winds up being the 2024 candidate, I will support her.

However Harris was not popular when she ran as a presidential candidate in 2020 and her approval ratings as a VP are very low, even lower than Biden's. Biden chose her as his VP and I was happy about that. But just because she was chosen as VP does not make her the "heir apparent". Democratic voters get to decide who they want as their nominee. Maybe it will be Harris. Maybe it will be someone else. Personally I do not think Biden will run again due to his age, but I think he'll wait to announce that until closer to the primaries so that he can get more done first. The VP not automatically inherit this. There are too many talented people in the party who ran last time and will likely run again, plus upcoming talent who will likely want to run: Gavin Newsom, Stacey Abrams just to think of a few.

[Deuxcents]

25. For me, it is not race or gender w/ VP Harris

I was thrilled when she accepted the position but her lack of enthusiasm, rapport w/ younger voters have seemed to wane and I don’t know why. Maybe lack of exposure or she’s so busy behind the scenes, we don’t know what she’s doing. Imo, we needed her in the Senate or SC. I think her talents aren’t being used to her potential.

[krawhitham]

30. Because her approval rating is lower than Biden's?

[H2O Man]

31. I don't think she is.

I think that a lot of people favor her, should President Biden not run for re-election.

[Buckeyeblue]

34. She'll have a chance but the nomination shouldn't just be handed to her

Whoever gets the nomination needs to demonstrate through the primary process that they can connect with and excite voters.

I'm very much about having non-white-men as candidates. But any candidate has to demonstrate that they can win.

We can't afford not to win.

[H2O Man]

154. That's fair.

I think it is reasonable to consider how she did in the 2020 primary season. She did have some good moments intitially, and was endorsed by a number of top Democrats. But by the third debate, she was only in the single digits. I say this as someone who had hoped early on that she would get the nomination, in part because I thought she would crush Trump in debates. However, to be fair, she did not perform well in the second two primary debates, and failed to build support for her campaign. While debates really do not indicate how a person would do in office, they are important in the context of winning elections.

Her record as vice president is obviously a most important factor. It would be nice to see her out front, talking about issues. I think she can be an important player in campaigning for our mid-term candidates.

I'm not concerned with her popularity in polls today. But that is a factor to consider when we approach 2024 -- again, if President Biden isn't running for re-election. Until 2016, neither party had run a candidate with over 50% negatives.

[Buckeyeblue]

182. She never managed to connect with people

Which I think was Joe's problem when he previously ran. But the Obama administration allowed Joe to use his strengths and allowed him to get the attention he needed to let people get to know him.

I think it's been difficult for the Biden administration to find those similar situations for Harris.

I would suspect that after the midterms, regardless of the results, we will start seeing her more. It'll be up to her to make the most of those opportunities.

I don't think there is any way Joe runs in 2024. He doesn't need to. His legacy is cemented. History will be very kind to his one-term presidency. He saved us from Trump. If we gain seats in the midterms it will be the cherry on top.

[liberal_mama]

37. I was talking with a democratic friend who said, "I hope Biden recovers from Covid, otherwise we

will end up with Kamala." I was surprised to hear her say this, but I think there are some democrats who are sexist. I live in New York State and I'm really worried about our upcoming governor's race. Andrew Cuomo was always a strong candidate. He probably would have won a 4th term if he hadn't resigned because of his scandals. I'm worried that Kathy Hochul isn't going to win and we will end up with that republican freak as our governor.

[Walleye]

46. Yes, Mark my words, the nominee would be a man

[P.C.L.D.]

41. How about Harris / Newsom 2028?

[Demsrule86]

51. No, that is a losing ticket.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

59. Out of laziness, allow me to quote Wikipedia:

The Twelfth Amendment stipulates that each elector must cast distinct votes for president and vice president, instead of two votes for president.

Additionally, electors may not vote for presidential and vice-presidential candidates who both reside in the elector's state—at least one of them must be an inhabitant of another state.

emphasis mine.

[Hekate]

70. Two Californians?

[Demsrule86]

49. I don't think she can win myself...I like her but the GOP have really worked her over and

a woman no matter how talented is going to face trouble. Also, she did not do well in the 2020 primary. I can't see her winning the rustbelt either. This makes me sad as I like her. If Biden runs and for some reason steps down in his second term...we may get our first woman president. but failing that I just don't know.

[lindysalsagal]

187. +1

[Andy823]

54. People seem to forget one important thing

Out of all the "others", President Biden picked "HER" to be the Vice President. That's good enough for me to support her for president when she runs.

[Hortensis]

57. Because VP Harris is the ONEwho has to be beat -- by hostiles on right and left

[Hortensis]

58. Because VP Harris is the ONEwho has to be beat -- by hostiles on right and left

[Lancero]

60. 2016 scared us off anyone with a hint of diversity as President.

Many people have whole-heartedly adopted the idea that anyone other than a straight, white, cisgendered, male is a instaloss for us.

[Hekate]

62. Sexism and racism, but mostly sexism. It bothers me to see her disappeared like that. nt

[uponit7771]

64. +1, it took Benedict Donald getting help from the Russians to beat her by a hair in 2016

[cbabe]

65. She had the chance to take down Manchin and didn't. She had

had the chance to side with children but choose the Catholic Church.

I have trust issues with her.

Not necessarily a criticism, simply remembering her record.

[bigtree]

66. ?

...what?

[cbabe]

68. Google is your friend. CA AG...

[bigtree]

69. no, Google's not my friend

...it's mostly a right wing directed database, especially when it comes to news reports.

[cbabe]

72. Okey doke. What search engine is good for you? Also mnuchin. My bad.

https://www.populardemocracy.org › news-and-publications › kamala-harris-fails-explain-why-she-didn-t-prosecute-steven-mnuchin-s-bank

Kamala Harris Fails to Explain Why She Didn't Prosecute Steven Mnuchin ...

Kamala Harris Fails to Explain Why She Didn't Prosecute Steven Mnuchin's Bank

FORMER CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY General Kamala Harris on Wednesday vaguely acknowledged The Intercept's report about her declining to prosecute Steven Mnuchin's OneWest Bank for foreclosure violations in 2013, but offered no explanation.

[bigtree]

75. 'the Intercept's report'

...'nuff said.

[cbabe]

78. Please explain...? Not the intercept. Also if you don't like the source, what source is ok with you?

https://www.huffpost.com › entry › kamala-harris-has-to-answer-for-not-prosecuting-steve_b_5980d18ee4b09d231a518205

Kamala Harris Has To Answer For Not Prosecuting Steve Mnuchin

Yet despite internal memos explicitly mentioning numerous prosecutable offenses by Mnuchin and co., then California Attorney General Kamala Harris refused to prosecute. She's never given an explanation for her decision and Mnuchin later donated $2,000.00 to Harris' campaign. It was his only donation to a democratic candidate.

https://www.politico.com › news › 2019 › 10 › 22 › kamala-harris-attorney-general-california-housing-053716

New book whacks Kamala Harris' AG record during housing crisis

Oct 22, 2019"No attorney general in America got more from the banks for their state's homeowners than Kamala Harris; she won $20 billion for Californians from the biggest banks,'' he said in a statement t

https://www.dailykos.com › stories › 2019 › 1 › 21 › 1827095 › -Kamala-Harris-and-the-big-lie-that-she-didn-t-prosecute-Mnuchin

Kamala Harris vs Steven Mnuchin and OneWest: Weighing the Best Way to ...

On the OneWest issue, it's a misnomer (ie, lie) that Harris "didn't prosecute Mnuchin." He was never under investigation, and Harris didn't receive a referral t

https://www.cnbc.com › 2019 › 01 › 26 › kamala-harris-has-complicated-history-with-wall-street.html

Kamala Harris has complicated history with Wall Street - CNBC

Jan 26, 2019Harris made waves in 2011 as California attorney general after pulling her state out of national negotiations with big banks, later negotiating a $25 billion settlement for foreclosed households....

[Demsrule86]

129. Yup...not a credible source.

[cbabe]

158. See post 78

[Demsrule86]

164. Really...it is that same story...shopped around to various outlets...again not credible.

[Demsrule86]

165. You should stop trying to smear VP Harris...she is a Democrat and this is Democratic underground.

[cbabe]

172. See post 65. Not a challenge but a personal concern. As others have posted. Done for now.

[Demsrule86]

127. I know about the Catholic church victims but how could she take down Manchin?

And there is nothing I can find on google.

[cbabe]

157. See post 72

[Lulu Latech]

71. Oh please, she was a lackluster candidate...

Other women like Warren and Klobachar faired much better. Harris just didn't perform well.

I think the Democratic ticket will be Newsom/Klobachar.....and it's a winner!

[Andy823]

74. And yet President Biden

picked her out of all the others to be his VP.

[Lulu Latech]

77. Perhaps she brought other advantages and skills to the table

Appointing her to the VP role is not necessarily a vote of confidence that she can win an election on their own. Think of all the other VP's who have run in the past. Most chose not to run or lost....Even Biden sat out a cycle and it took time for him to get Obamas full throated endorsement in his primary runup.

[Andy823]

91. I would think that

"any" president, not including republican ones, would pick the person he felt was the most "capable" of taking their place if something happened and they could not finish their term in office. I know I would pick the one who would "best" be able to carry on my agenda.

I thin this is what Biden did.

[Lulu Latech]

109. Capable

Capable yes. But she has not proven she can win as a candidate on the National level. If capable were a criteria for winning elections we would never had Trump or Bush. The VP slot IMO does not give her preference to be our candidate and may even work against her. Given Bidens popularity polls.

[Midwestern Democrat]

140. There are political considerations that sometimes prevent a presidential nominee from choosing his

preferred choice as his running mate. For example, Ford only dumped Rockefeller from the ticket in 1976 to placate the right wing of the GOP.

[Demsrule86]

130. There was a need to pick a Black woman as VP....after South Carolina and the amazing support

for Joe Biden from the AA community...he promised. And she did a good job during the campaign. She is very smart and was an asset.

[Wavelight]

113. Because Clyburn

Because Clyburn urged Biden to pick a woman of color as his running mate. Limits the pool right there. And Harris was the most logical choice.

[JI7]

133. It doesn't limit the choices at all. There were many good black women

that he was able to pick from.

Val Demings would be a more logical choice based on her being from Florida and working in law enforcement.

[Wavelight]

193. I would've been fine with Demings

But her relative inexperience didn’t play as well compared to the senator from California. And this was important given concerns over Biden‘s age, health etc.

[niyad]

73. Sexism, misogyny and racism.

[Retrograde]

82. 3 reasons

1) She's a woman. 2) She's not white. 3) She's from California - and worse, from that liberal enclave of hippie commie atheists, San Francisco (actually, I think she lives with Doug somewhere in Southern California these days, but she got her start in Berkeley and San Francisco)

I was happy to vote for her twice for attorney general, and once for senator, and she was one of my top choices in 2020, along with Warren and Klobuchar.

[jalan48]

84. She should and will be in the discussion when the time comes.

[relayerbob]

85. Def not out of my mind as a great candidate

But in reality, anyone talking Presidential candidates are falling into the trap of the press and the right in distracting us from what we need to do right now. 2024 is another day, another race, and 2028 - well, our world will be adically different by then, and most of these debates will be pointless.

[llashram]

86. america

at its finest Look to the fascist IMMEDIATELY chosen after President Obama's administration-presidency. That's ALL I needed to know Amerikkka had turned no corner on racism sexism or cultural divisions based on some hateful notions of the white race being the repository of racially supreme human beings.

[rogue emissary]

87. Had the same thoughts.

It's clear that she is going to run to succeed Biden. Judging from many of the responses to your post. People will be surprised at how popular she will be with the base.

Running as the VP is totally different from running as a Mayor or Senator. The fact that Biden gave her the border and now even the Republicans aren't talking about "Crisis in the Border" BS. Shows Biden is building her up to replace him.

[dlk]

88. American cultural bias against women runs deep

Hillary wasn’t a one-off.

[Botany]

89. Don't fall for the false debate about who will be the next person to run for POTUS as a democrat ...

.... this is planted shit made to split us.

1) As long as Joe has not said that he isn't running then he is the guy.

2) The important races now are in '22 not the '24 races take care of '22 1st.

3) BTW Harris would be a powerhouse when and if she runs for POTUS and the other side
knows it and is going out of their to treat her like Hillary and spread lies and disinformation
about her such as Tucker Carlson's "she slept her way to the top."

[Andy823]

97. EXACTLY ! nt.

[Botany]

106. Why people fall for this crap I don't know. I would swear that it smells Russian/Fox News to me.

n/t

[crickets]

141. Spot on. Thank you!

The important races now are in '22 not the '24 races take care of '22 1st.

👆👆 Especially this!

[SunImp]

144. +1 Lots of good Democrats focus on 22' first

[ramen]

90. I would gladly vote for Harris. I do share some others' concerns

about convincing enough of the rest of the country to do so, given her unfavorability in polling. I hope that changes but it would not surprise me if it did not.

[FoxNewsSucks]

93. I like Harris well enough, with some of the reservations already mentioned.

But we are always told we can't have a good liberal because we need someone who "can win a general". So why doesn't that same rationale apply?

Despite being qualified, the fact is that she is female and black. In a general election that will sink her. It is a sad and disgusting comment about the US that such a thing is likely true. It's the least relevant thing about her when it comes to job performance, but to millions that is all they'll see.

[AlexSFCA]

98. I will always vote for who I think has the best chance to win a primary

and it’s not always the person I may personally like best. I like Kamala the most but I am not convinced she is our best shot to win the general election. Of course if the only other choices are Warren and Bernie (who have ZERO chance), then, yes, Kamala will have the best shot.

[LudwigPastorius]

99. It could be racism and misogyny, or...

it could be her not-so-hot polling.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/kamala_harris_favorableunfavorable-6690.html

Or, some combination thereof.

[ancianita]

100. It depends on who you ask. I don't overlook her at all. I see people reacting to

campaigns.

I don't see anything here or elsewhere that approaches your "dearth of interest" description.

What I see are Democrats campaigning in the arena, fighting to win, and so many here might make comments about their potential in the 2024 primaries and general. But I don't think that means Democrats have a dearth of interest in Biden/Harris, or that there is "little consideration" about her. No one's "passing over" Kamala Harris.

I see Kamala as clearly constrained by her job, as she should be, being a heartbeat away from the presidency.

I'm not committing to any Democrats in 2024 until I know who have officially begun their campaigns.
Until then I totally support Biden/Harris.

I think you're being premature in your concern. It is way too soon to doubt either us here, or the party, or Harris.

Just my opinion, since you asked.

[James48]

101. Personally, I'd like FDR to come back from the grave.

But that isn’t gong to happen.

Kamala is going to have to convince people she has “the right stuff” to be President. So far, I haven’t seen enough to convince me she is the best candidate for 2024. It has nothing to do with skin tone or gender. It has to do with leadership, communication skill, and a message that resonates with voters.

[TygrBright]

102. Because the numbers and the history make white males more "electable". And they think we NEED that.

They think it's a crisis. Democracy in peril. Our last chance to save it.

Do we risk a competent, maybe even brilliant, experienced candidate whose "electability factor" is historically negatively impacted by her race and gender?

Or do we go with the most electable possible candidate to give ourselves the best possible shot at that 'last chance'.

That's the calculus being done in a LOT of powerful, mostly white, brains right now.

And they know we have an abundance of very qualified, very likeable, "most electable" (i.e. white and male) potential candidates on the bench.

Their calculus of history and experience is based in a genuine reality, but they have not yet re-run the numbers (or if they have, the results they're getting feed into their confirmation bias) to account for the changing demographics of People Who Would Rather Be Dropped in a Vat of Acid than vote for Trump.

Their calculus runs like this:

1. We know who will vote for Any Democratic Candidate no matter what, so they're in our numbers and we don't really have to do anything but keep them alive and get them to the polls.

2. We know who will look at Most Possible Republican Candidates and say "Even if the Democratic Candidate is still another white man, he's better than that weasel so I'll have to vote for him even while complaining bitterly about yet another white male candidate."

3. We know who might have Protest Voted against the Democrats for yet again ignoring all the qualified female and/or non-white candidates, but we think that the apocalyptic nature of the current stakes (i.e., vote Republican and your kids/grandkids have a good chance of dying young) will keep them in our column for one more election.

They run those numbers, and they still aren't quite enough to guarantee a win, so they look at the next groups:

4. We think we know who's genuinely "undecided" through distaste for "politics" and general supineness - so who are they and who will they vote for? Mostly white people and older people and they'll vote for someone "reassuring", i.e. a centrist-sounding white man.

Good if we can get those, but still probably not quite enough.

5. We think we know who would probably rather vote Republican but whose gag reflex is just a little too active to find voting for America's Wannabe First Authoritarian Tyrant (i.e., the likely Republican candidate) comfortable. We are most likely to be able to woo them with a white male candidate who sounds centrist. That might be just enough to save America from complete disaster.

So, there ya go.

That's why there's not more inclusion of Kamala Harris in discussions of Presidential possibilities. My guess is when push comes to shove, Pete Buttigieg won't make the cut either - though he might be added to the ticket as veeper.

Don't thank me, don't hate me. I don't like it any better than you do. But there's not a damn' thing I can do about it.

wearily,
Bright

[DET]

138. In a Nutshell

Well said - and with a nice touch of humor. That’s exactly the calculus that I and many other diehard Democrats are (or will be) going through. I have wanted a woman to be elected President for ages, but it won’t happen in the current climate. Same with a person of color. Personally, I hope Biden decides to run again; he’s the safest choice right now, and we can’t afford to lose with so much at stake.

I used to think that Trump was so obviously mentally and morally defective, so completely loathsome a human being, that there was no way that he could possibly win. And look what happened. I had no idea that there were so many awful people in this country who would not only vote for but admire someone like him.

“…they have not yet re-run the numbers…to account for the changing demographics…” If you or anyone else can make a convincing case that a woman, a person of color, or an LGBTQ individual can be a viable candidate in a country that is increasingly reverting to the dark ages, then please do so; we’d love to be proven wrong.

[gulliver]

103. She's back in a primary with others if Biden doesn't run

She hasn't been passed over. She just has competition.

[Emile]

104. Not my first choice for president, but I would vote for her.

AOC would be my first choice.

[TheFarseer]

105. Because she polls at under 40% approval

And her presidential campaign didn’t even make it to the primaries but go ahead and believe it’s racism and sexism even though we have within the last 3 elections had a black candidate and a woman candidate, but go ahead and believe a majority of Democrats are bigots if it makes you feel better.

[Vinca]

107. She's a very smart woman and entirely qualified, but the populace that doesn't follow politics/news

as we do see her in a very different light. Just my opinion, but she seems to be a victim of the Hillary curse in that she isn't seen as very friendly or genuine. If she had been viewed differently, she wouldn't have been voted off the island so early the last time around. Joe picked her for Veep because of her intellect and skill set, but that doesn't mean she's a shoo-in the next time there's an opening. Trump is probably the best example of this phenomenon. Totally unqualified - a downright blithering idiot - but he's somehow viewed by a majority of voters back in 2016 as the guy they want to have a beer with even though he wouldn't even let them into Mar-a-Grifto to clean the toilets. If he hadn't been such a total fuck up, Joe wouldn't have beat him in 2020. Sorry to say, we live in a world where celebrity seems to be the most important factor to a large chunk of the people. Think Herschel "Blithering Idiot" Walker.

[Raven123]

110. I can think of a few reasons

As mentioned already, Harris didn’t get a lot of traction in her first campaign. Her most memorable moment was the ill-conceived attack on Biden that landed with a thud. It took Biden a few tries to win.

As VP, one is in the shadows, so her visibility has been low

Her national visibility as a Senator before that being elected VP was short. Not a lot of time to establish a solid reputation.

Harris is not the best public speaker. Some folks are better than others. It is what it is.

Her first interview on the southern border was mostly memorable for her answer to the question of why she hadn’t visited it yet. While I don’t believe she necessarily had to visit before the interview, she should have expected the question and had a better answer.

Personally, I prefer candidates who have a depth and breadth of knowledge, and can think quickly on their feet during debates and interviews. Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Coons, Sanders are very good for example. I am not suggesting any of them as a preferred candidate. Just noting an important skill.

[Midwestern Democrat]

122. I remember after getting selected as VP, she went on Colbert and was asked about that prior attack

on Biden - and her response was to give a very dismissive laugh and dismiss the question with "It was a debate!" - apparently, telling the entire country that her anguished attack on Biden during the debate was just pure theatrics - and I'm like "Are you kidding me? That's the best response she can come up with - 'I was just acting, silly!'".

[BannonsLiver]

111. How is she being passed over?

If Biden does not run she will likely be in the primary field where she will have a chance to win the nomination. She may win. Or maybe not. We don’t know. But “passed over” is kind of silly when none of that has started. What I think you want is for her to have heir apparent status should Biden not run. Bad news. That’s not how it works.

[Sympthsical]

112. I got yelled at when I called this debate

And I'm only ordinarily prescient.

2024 is going to be . . . a thing for us.

[BlackSkimmer]

150. It is indeed...

going to be a thing.

A helluva thing.

[Mr.Bill]

114. For whatever reason

the press treats her as if she doesn't exist. Mike Pence got more mention in the news by doing absolutely nothing.

[ForgedCrank]

115. Because it's

a taboo subject at this point since she holds the position of Vice President.
Asking her to take a position right now on matters that aren't planned or decided on 100% quite yet is a trap that can be used against us later.
What if Joe Biden decides not to run? what if he gets in a car accident and is injured or worse? What if he is the nominee? What if he isn't? See, it's too far away at this point for anyone to start taking a stand on anything.
It's a tactical mistake to ask these questions, and if she is asked about them, she is smart to avoid them until the Democratic path is set and decided.

[pressbox69]

116. She is following in the long tradition of VP's

who quietly sit back and let the POTUS hold the spotlight. I can't think of much bad that she has done. At least she wasn't loudly booed at HAMILTON like Prissy Pence was. I guess that was easier to take then the necktie party that Trump's mob planned for him.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

121. Joe Biden will be the Democratic nominee in 2024 and Kamala Harris will be on the ticket as VP.

[SYFROYH]

125. If Joe bails, Kamala will come out swinging.

[Demsrule86]

134. If Joe bails in 24, we are fucked six ways to Sunday. We need Joe to run as an incumbent...

We have no one at the moment who can win the rustbelt...must-win states.

[Elessar Zappa]

131. I hear you.

I feel guilty about being on SSDI and getting Medicare and Medicaid (I pay nothing for meds, doctors visits, or surgeries) when so many are doing without healthcare. I feel guilty that I inherited a fully-paid for house and pay nothing for rent when so many are having trouble putting a roof over their head. I just wish this country would do better.

[ificandream]

136. Read her book.

I found her book, "The Truths We Hold," very inspiring. I got the audio, which she narrates, first, then picked up the Kindle on sale. Right now, it's $6.99, which is a good price. I really recommend it. I'd love to see her as president. I can dream a Kamala-Hillary ticket, can't I? A great daydream, but it would be awesome if it really happened.

[Bettie]

137. You know when people say "I'd be open to a woman as president, but not THAT woman"?

"That woman" is all women.

Yes, below is satire, but all too true.

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/i-dont-hate-women-candidates-i-just-hated-hillary-and-coincidentally-im-starting-to-hate-elizabeth-warren

[betsuni]

153. Elizabeth Warren is the best evidence, went from being beloved progressive hero that so many

swore they'd totally vote for if she ran for president, but when she did there were all kinds of things wrong with her suddenly. She became THAT woman pretty much overnight. I think she was surprised. Proof it wasn't about policy.

[Bettie]

160. And if you wait

people will come out of the woodwork to explain that it was this one "gaffe" or "mistake" she made that caused everyone to turn 180 degrees on her, not that she's a woman, but that other thing...

Men get the benefit of the doubt, women must be twice as good (3 or 4 times as good if they aren't white).

That's our society and liberals, while not quite as likely as right wingers to turn that way, still do. It isn't even conscious, it's baked into our culture so deeply that it is hard to recognize for a lot of people.

[jcgoldie]

161. truth

Same thing as happened to Hillary. Popularity soaring until... well nothing really they just became a real option and suddenly they were just not right somehow.

[betsuni]

178. Most admired woman for 17 years, approval rating at nearly 70%. But suddenly Hillary was unlikeable.

Ugh, people are so gullible.

[Tree Lady]

179. I still voted for her

But my state picked Joe and Bernie first. We vote mid May so it's mostly over by then.

I really wish we could have a National primary because it doesn't feel fair that the early states pick.

[DonCoquixote]

139. that and because they want some cute white man

in the hopes of luring back "Reagan Republican's"

[samnsara]

142. joe will.. run in 2 years and joe will win IF we stay united

[Maru Kitteh]

145. Two reasons.

of course

[betsuni]

147. Harris is smart, competent, attractive, charismatic, progressive, and has a compelling life story.

Nothing wrong with her as a presidential candidate except the usual bullshit.

[betsuni]

155. You're trying too hard.

[msfiddlestix]

156. It should be sadly obvious... no point going there, really.. it's what we're all effin dealing

with, on a rather huge scale. Same shit we've been fighting against for centuries.

only now it's sort of like 160 years or so ago, instead of maybe 20 years or so ago.

[KentuckyWoman]

162. I don't agree.

I am not exactly in on the minds of party leaders but I like her fine.

Part of the trouble all the way around is media. A year and a half in Trump still has all the headlines. Makes it hard for people hunkered in getting the work done to shine.

[Arazi]

163. I'll be the outlier. I think Pritzker should be considered before Kamala

I like Kamala. I think the press has unfairly savaged her.

BUT…

We can’t afford to try to win with a “historic” choice - woman or an AA woman. We need to win.

Pritzker has dragged IL out of its fiscal hole - he has serious govt managerial credibility and business acumen. Check mark fiscal conservatives.

He’s for legal weed (enacted legal weed in IL) and student loan debt relief - check mark young voters.

He’s a billionaire - check mark the idiots who think that qualifies a person like #Traitor.

He’s not Newsome. No CA baggage or labels.

He’s kept the Chicago machine in check - which means he already knows how to keep the Democratic Party in hand.

He’s a fat white guy and (despite his posh family) he comes across as a fat white guy. Relatable. His actions after the Highland Park shooting for international acclaim.

[Oneironaut]

166. Because she's VP now, and, not in the spotlight.

Vice Presidents aren't supposed to create a ruckus and undermine the President.

There's been zero media attention on her, much like Vice Presidents before her.

[brooklynite]

167. I would not support her by default

Last edited Sun Jul 24, 2022, 06:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Perhaps the fact that she didn’t run a good campaign in 2020 is a reason people aren’t focusing on her in 2024.

If Biden run, it’s obvious that Harris will be his running mate. If not, I don’t see her in a prominent position in the Primary.

[PurgedVoter]

169. I would vote for her in the election but not the primary

I would be proud to vote for her and proud to have her as president, but she would not be my first choice to run. I don't want to voice things that might be echoed. On another entirely unrelated subject, I loved having Al Franken as a senator.

[DFW]

173. My sentiments exactly. Once decided, our presidential nominee gets my support and vote, period.

And as far as your unrelated subject goes, I stated outright, years ago, that I would never support for the nomination any Democratic Senator who publicly urged Al Franken to resign in 2017, and who, so far, had not yet made a public apology to Al for having done so. In 2020, this list included Gillibrand, Booker, Warren, Sanders and Harris. It still does.

[AZProgressive]

175. If I was Al Franken

I would say don't blame Gillibrand for my actions. That is just my opinion.

Biden benefited from not being in the Senate at the time so he didn't have to take a stance one way or the other but there was pressure on the other Senators with multiple stories coming out.

[DFW]

176. I know Al well enough to say that he doesn't blame Gillibrand for his actions

However, when she blames him for things he did not do, then he has every right to expect, at the very least, an apology. He felt like a guy getting beaten up by dirty cops yelling, „stop resisting!“ when he wasn‘t resisting, and hadn‘t done anything to begin with. It was, as Roger Stone said before the first accusation flew, „Al Franken‘s time in the barrel.“ Al had every right to expect his fellow Democrats not to fall for a Roger Stone scam.

[betsuni]

181. +1

[Demsrule86]

183. I blame her and will never forgive her. No presidency for her ever.

[newdayneeded]

189. Pence

Even dull ass pence showed up on the news giving speeches to work places or other groups. Kamala could dye her hair bright blue and you wouldn't know about it for 3 weeks. She has zero exposure in the administration. I don't think she has near the popularity to be elected.

[brooklynite]

190. I'm amazed that it's okay here to call Democrats racist and sexist...

The OPs question was about considering Harris as an alternative to other Democrats.

[48656c6c6f20]

191. Women who inspire me

Hillary Clinton
Stacy Abrams
Most the squad
Elizabeth Warren who I don't agree with a lot
RBG of course
Numerous other in history and current.

Kamala doesn't inspire me. Not sure why.

[Heather MC]

194. I noticed that too and I find it absolutely ridiculous

KAMAS HARRIS IS absolutely the best person to be the next president of the United States.
Because think about the fundamental shift required in a country that has a history of only electing white men white man to be president. And they finally shook that up in 2008 when we elected Obama. Just imagine the shift in this country this country when a black Asian woman, Is elected by the beautiful one voice majority.

I believe the reason she gets excluded from the conversation is because there are many who still can't conceive that a black woman can be president in a country as racist as America.

Think about it. Black women were the last to get the right the vote in 1965. Kamala Harris conveniently was born in October of 1964. That's a harvest time of the month. I think it's perfect tiperfect time for a new sea to have been planted that would grow up to become our future 1st female black Asian president.

However I also believe people exclude her from the conversation is a way to protect her. Just think how the republicans would treat her if we began calling her a front runner.

Remember they all witnessed her make Brett Kavanaugh cry. The republicans would be absolutely petrified you petrified to run against a black woman and have to hide their racism. Her mere candidacy would shut them the fuck up.

As far as I'm concerned Kamala Harris is the next president of the United States
💜.