After Roe, religious liberty seen at risk: Jews, Muslims, others say reversal interferes with their

[Hekate]

….. say reversal interferes with their beliefs, which allow abortion.

Los Angeles Times, this morning. I find this very encouraging indeed.

For 25 years Rabbi Barry Silver has served as the spiritual leader of L’Dor Va-Dor, a progressive synagogue in Boynton Beach, Fla. Like most congregational rabbis, he offers a Jewish perspective on major life events, giving weekly sermons, performing weddings, funerals and baby namings, and occasionally counseling congregants wrestling with whether to have an abortion.

Silver tells his congregation that contrary to Roman Catholic and evangelical teachings, which state that life begins at conception, traditional Jewish law, known as Halakha, says life begins at birth: when the baby draws its first breath. Before then, the mother’s physical and emotional well-being is paramount.
In some extreme cases — such as when the mother’s life is at stake — an abortion is not just permitted by Jewish law, but required.
>>>snip>>>

For decades, antiabortion Catholic and evangelical Christian perspectives have dominated the religious conversation around abortion. But people of faith hold a variety of views on the issue, rooted in their own traditions, teachings and laws.
Muslim teachings hold that the soul is breathed into a fetus 120 days after conception, and other religious groups — Unitarians, the Oklevueha Native American Church, …. consider reproductive choice and bodily autonomy to be sacred. Even Catholics are far from united in their views on the issue, with 56% saying abortion should be legal in all or most cases, according to a 2019 Pew Research Center survey.

Silver, a progressive activist who also works as a civil rights attorney, made headlines this month after he filed a religious liberty lawsuit challenging a Florida law that bans abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy. He said the ban makes abortion unlawful even in situations in which it’s mandated by Jewish law. Silver is the first religious leader to file such a suit; legal experts say that after the U.S. Supreme Court’s June 24 decision overturning Roe vs. Wade, he won’t be the last.
“One hundred percent, we’re just at the beginning of the religious liberty lawsuits,” said Candace Bond- Theriault, director of racial justice policy with the Law, Rights, and Religion Project at Columbia Law School.

>>>more>>>


https://enewspaper.latimes.com/infinity/latimes/default.aspx?token=42e23962a5d74614be16bae3d62d13e7&utm_id=62291&sfmc_id=1778350&edid=fd22a601-23d9-4b62-9c79-2b8d24733951

[JustAnotherGen]

1. I need to see lawsuits

From all faiths that are not 'trinity based' Christianity.

We shouldn't be in this place - but we are.

So to this place I say - Beautiful beautiful pugnacious chaos!

[Hekate]

4. Unitarians and Jews are not "trinity based," nor is the Native American church mentioned

And as Candace Bond- Theriault, director of racial justice policy with the Law, Rights, and Religion Project at Columbia Law School, said: “One hundred percent, we’re just at the beginning of the religious liberty lawsuits.”

[JustAnotherGen]

10. I'm a UU

I include us in this. It's going to need to be a tithing child bearing age couple or two to get it started.

[Behind the Aegis]

6. I am sure many will start to pop up...but for now...

Jewish community to join ACLU, abortion providers in lawsuit against Ohio’s six-week abortion ban
https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/07/12/jewish-community-to-join-aclu-abortion-providers-in-lawsuit-against-ohios-six-week-abortion-ban/

South Florida synagogue files lawsuit against overturning of Roe v. Wade, say it violates beliefs
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/07/04/south-florida-jewish-group-files-lawsuit-against-roe-v-wade-say-it-violates-beliefs/

‘Dangerous times’: US Muslims mull implications after fall of Roe
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/29/us-muslims-raise-funds-mull-legal-options-after-fall-of-roe

How the Satanic Temple is using ‘abortion rituals’ to claim religious liberty against the Texas’ ‘heartbeat bill’
https://theconversation.com/how-the-satanic-temple-is-using-abortion-rituals-to-claim-religious-liberty-against-the-texas-heartbeat-bill-167755 (There is supposedly a group preparing a lawsuit (in TX?), but I can't find the article.)

I wonder, could several non-Christian groups come together and fil a type of class-action lawsuit?

[JustAnotherGen]

11. Thank you for these BTA

I shall definitely read!

[Hekate]

12. I'd love to see a class-action lawsuit -- apparently there is inter-community conversation...

…about lawsuits in general.

Thank you for the list and the links, Aegis.

[Elessar Zappa]

16. Liberal Christian denominations should join in also.

Churches like the Episcopal Church and the Evangelical Lutheran church to name a couple.

[bucolic_frolic]

2. Yes, everyone is forcing their religious beliefs on us, when will they listen to ours?

[azureblue]

14. what would they do

if,as Leviticus says, it is forbidden to eat pork, so some religion pickets people for eating bacon in a restaurant?

[Ocelot II]

3. In America, religious liberty is only for those oppressed evangelical Christians.

Let's see what happens when Jews, Muslims and other faith groups demand the same right.

[Hekate]

5. The Evangelicals have made so much noise over the last 40 years you'd think nobody else matters

And the rest of us are mostly inclined to live and let live when it comes to religion in America — but they’ve gone way too far, and our democracy is now at risk.

[czarjak]

26. Dominionism, ruling over you in Jesus' name. Literally. Too far?

[Hekate]

29. One thing I've noticed about our fanatical brethren is how they play the long game, while we...

… herd cats. I’ve known about the Dominionists for about 20 years now.

[Coventina]

7. My branch of Buddhism believes abortion is a good thing

if you cannot care for a child properly, for WHATEVER reason (simply not wanting the child is a good and just reason).

All you are doing is sending the soul to the next life, a better life, than you can provide.

As a feminist Pagan, my other religion states that the woman holds the power of life AND death, and her judgment over her own body is all the reason needed.

[Hekate]

13. Right you are, Coventina. I'm glad you brought up these religious groups...

…both of which are important to me. I hope they are already in the battle.

[usonian]

8. The court ruling is CLEARLY imposition of one religious belief on others.

So who you gonna appeal it to? These bastards?

The system has clearly entered a deadly loop.
The criminals sit in judgment of their own crimes.

[Hekate]

21. Start with lower courts like everyone else in the land, that's how

[czarjak]

28. Fake Evangelism. Hating Catholics is it's foundation. (Base, to you rubes)

[usonian]

33. They all sleep with the devil. That's why they don't like abortions.

------------------ Keeps his spawn limited. (opinion!)

--------------------WHO'S YOUR DADDY, LITTLE DEVIL?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

9. There will be a flood of lawsuits ...

By ignoring the Constitution, decades of precedent, and logic, the Subverted Court has created the genesis of a flood of lawsuits. Nothing is settled now.

[thesquanderer]

15. That link does not appear to work n/t

[Hekate]

20. Darn. I get the LA Times in the driveway & on my computer. I copy/paste the links from the articles...

… as they appear on my computer, and have always wondered if there’s a paywall. So far no one has mentioned anything, but that doesn’t mean there’s not a problem.

So it’s just not working for you? All I can do is hope is it’s just a passing glitch. Thanks to the TOS and copyright laws I can only post 4 paragraphs like everyone else.

[thesquanderer]

24. Paywall, but also, that seems to just go to the front page, and not that particular article. n/t

[Hekate]

27. Tricky little devils. Okay, if you can see the front page, this article starts there, right side...

… second column down. If you got there without paywall interfering, you can read what’s on the front page, then turn the pages till you get to the rest. I can do nothing about the paywall, though.

Bad paywall I’m sorry.

[thesquanderer]

30. re: "if you can see the front page, this article starts there, right side"

If you can, it's better to link directly to the article. People will still be seeing your DU post tomorrow, but tomorrow, that article won't be on the front page anymore, so it won't be findable that way either.

[Hekate]

31. I thought I was linking directly, as I had only that article up on my screen. What I used to do...

… was hold down the newspaper with my coffee cup and copy citations and text thus:

Los Angeles Times
July 27, 2022
Section B, California
Page B1
“Militia turns up at Oak Fire, raising concern”
Uniformed group’s presence comes as firefighters make progress against blaze.

I guess progress ain’t all it’s cracked up to be, at least in my world.

[thesquanderer]

34. found the story without the paywall here...

https://www.yahoo.com/video/jews-muslims-others-roe-vs-123043389.html

[Hekate]

35. Excellent workaround

[Jade Fox]

17. So glad this is happening. nt

[DallasNE]

18. So Far ReligiousLiberty Lawsuits Have All Been One-Sided

The first big case was Hobby Lobby. Then came the cake maker cases and pharmacist contraceptive cases. But those cases will face a new challenge where the rules have been changed. But with this Court will it make any difference? Recent decisions are thin on merit and poorly crafted so how far down this rabbit hole will they go?

[dsc]

19. that isn't entirely true

the lawsuit that brought marriage equality to my circuit was a religious liberty lawsuit on behalf of religious that did perform same sex unions. NC had an unusual law that punished clergy for performing a marriage that had no legal force. I am assuming it was an artifact of a time when poligamy was a problem.

[AngryOldDem]

22. It most certainly does.

But the christofascists don’t give a good shit.

And chances are if a case arguing religious freedom ever makes it to SCOTUS, it will not be heard.

We have entered some very, very dark times, my friends.

[Farmer-Rick]

23. So, how exactly will those lawsuits go?

The Supremes have ruled states can force women to birth. Many states have separation of church and state written into their constitutions. If a religion wins in the state, it will get appealed to the Supremes and that suit will be overturned.

Jewish tradition has a very maternal outlook on life. The mother always comes first over the fetus according to the article.

But if the Supremes overturn it, they are in violation of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993. Yet hypocrisy and superstitious pseudoscience to justify rulings don't stop this court. The Supremes' justifications will become very bizzare.

[Hekate]

25. Since women's health was thrown back to the 50 states to each decide for themselves...

… it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better. However I am very encouraged that multiple religious traditions in the US are actively planning to take to the courts. It’s going to take know-how and money to fight, and since Alito threw down the religious gauntlet, liberal religious groups (and there are many) plus those that just plain want the courts/legislatures out of our private business, will be banding together on this issue it seems.

Some people here seem to think there is no point in doing that because of the SCOTUS — but lawsuits don’t go straight to the SCOTUS, but wind their way up the ladder. If we throw up our hands and say it’s no use, we’ll never make progress, and that’s a guarantee.

[Bettie]

32. I have no doubt that either our radicalized supreme court

will either decline to hear these cases or they will simply declare that only their favored religion has such standing because "tradition" or some such line of crap.

They are slavering to establish a religion through 'states rights'.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

36. Jewish Leaders: Banning Abortion is 'Absolutely' a Violation of Religious Freedom

Under Jewish religious law, it is clear that life begins at birth and there is no prohibition in the Torah on abortion. According to my Rabbi, the life of a fetus is only potential life and the life of the mother is more important than the life of a fetus. Alito's proposed opinion elevates Christian beliefs over Judaism.

Link to tweet

https://jezebel.com/jewish-leaders-banning-abortion-is-absolutely-a-violat-1848885645

Conservatives—namely, white evangelical Christians—have long weaponized religious values as a shoddy defense for their decades-long conquest to criminalize abortion in the United States. But after a leaked draft of the Supreme Court’s decision to strike down Roe v. Wade sent shockwaves through the public consciousness on Monday night, a different kind of group of religious text-swinging heroes has emerged.

Coalitions of Rabbis across different sects of Judaism and a contingent of Jewish abortion activists are defending Jewish pregnant people’s right to abortion access, raising what they claim is a valid legal challenge: A national abortion ban would violate their right to religious freedom as guaranteed by the First Amendment. And as the right to bodily autonomy for women and pregnant people is threatened—largely impacting low-income Black and brown people—by conservative justices’ arguments that we should simply rewind to the good old years when women didn’t have any rights because, you know, some 17th century witch-hunter said so, Jewish communities are putting their foot down to say, “Not in my religion.”......

For evidence, Rabbi Ruttenberg points to the Book of Exodus in the Torah, which discusses a case where two men accidentally knock over a pregnant person and cause them to miscarry:

“When men fight, and one of them pushes a pregnant woman and a miscarriage results, but no other harm ensues, the one responsible shall be fined when the woman’s husband demands compensation; the payment will be determined by judges. But if other harm ensues, the penalty shall be life for life.”

The Hebrew Bible, she says, does not regard the fetus as a person, for the Torah doesn’t specify how long the woman has been pregnant when the miscarriage happens. Another annotated text states, “If she is found pregnant, until the fortieth day it is mere fluid,” meaning the fetus does not have agency for at least forty days of pregnancy. For that reason, some interpretations of Jewish law say that personhood begins with the first breath. “It’s not murder, basically, and the Talmud lays that out really explicitly,” she says.

I like the idea of a lawsuit filed on the basis of the First Amendment. Alito's draft opinion favors conservative christian theology over the faith all all or most Jews.

[Hekate]

38. Thanks for this

[irisblue]

37. Bump

[LetMyPeopleVote]

39. South Florida synagogue sues over Florida's new 15-week abortion ban

Jewish law is clear. The life of the mother always comes first

Link to tweet

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article262496912.html

A South Florida Jewish congregation has challenged a new state law that blocks abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy, contending the measure violates privacy and religious-freedom rights.

The lawsuit, filed Friday in Leon County circuit court by Congregation L’Dor Va-Dor, seeks to block the law from taking effect July 1. Abortion clinics also filed a lawsuit this month in Leon County challenging the constitutionality of the restriction.

Both cases include allegations that the law, signed by Gov. Ron DeSantis in April, violates a privacy right in the Florida Constitution that has long played a pivotal role in abortion cases in the state.

But the lawsuit filed Friday by the Boynton Beach congregation also contends that the law violates religious-freedom rights.

“For Jews, all life is precious and thus the decision to bring new life into the world is not taken lightly or determined by state fiat,” the lawsuit said. “In Jewish law, abortion is required if necessary to protect the health, mental or physical well-being of the woman, or for many other reasons not permitted under the act [the new law]. As such, the act prohibits Jewish women from practicing their faith free of government intrusion and thus violates their privacy rights and religious freedom.”

[Hekate]

40. I really appreciate your contributions, LMPV, which bring added breadth & depth to the conversation

… regarding the place of religious belief and practice in abortion.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

41. As a Jewish lawyer, this is an area of interest to me

Several years ago my temple had a Torah study breakfast on this topic. The head Rabbi of my Temple did a great job on this topic and this session stuck with me