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[Fire Walk With Me]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Fire Walk With Me) on Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:46 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[HooptieWagon]

1. Sounds like BS to me.

FB a news source? Really? Uh, if people were dying all over SI you don't think the media would be reporting it?

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. As a member of Occupy, I am highly aware of our media lying through both omission and commission.

People who live there are tweeting and FB'ing actual info and needs to that page and others. I've been staring into the volunteer streams for the last four days and as of yesterday they were still pulling bodies from the water in SI. I believe what has been shared by citizen journalists and by those who live there. Occupy and several related agencies are present in places FEMA and the Red Cross have yet to access and the information is coming in.

Media lies. Period.

[HooptieWagon]

15. Still not buying it.

Media loves sensationalist news ... If it bleeds, it leads. If people were dying all over a fairly wealthy white district, the media would be all over it.

[Fire Walk With Me]

16. Okay, disbelieve me and those reporting from the Island. Peace.

[msanthrope]

35. Let me guess--FEMA executed 5,000 citizens in the swamps of Staten Island?

This is just a rehash of Cynthia McKinney's batshit-crazy claim that FEMA executed 5,000 African Americans in the swamps during Katrina, and covered it up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x224795

Same shit, different day.....

[msanthrope]

109. Oh, I didn't make the claim--I merely noted that Ms. McKinney made such a claim

during Katrina, and it was accepted here as truth. This reporting from Bingotown Occupy sounds much the same.

And I would have thought that you would have had the personal courage to call me 'fuckwit' directly.

[magical thyme]

66. Bodies that they are pulling from the water now

are people who died during the storm, not due to being left to die. And as others have pointed out, the death count is rising as bodies of the missing are found.

We already have seen first hand accounts of survivors who waited until the height of the storm to try to evacuate. There is no telling how many people didn't evacuate until their homes were flooding or burning, and winds were 90mph. Some of those will have made it; many will not have made it out.

And yes, fires are a foreseeable problem in a storm. Along with the usual risks, lack of electricity means people burning candles, downed power lines and transformers exploding means sparks being thrown, power surges can start electrical fires, and so on. With fire trucks unable to get through the flooding, you are shit out of luck. And if your house is in a tightly spaced group, then the odds of your house burning down go up substantially.

This was not Katrina; poverty and lack of shelter to evac to was not an issue or legitimate reason.

[Atman]

77. EMT told me 1/3 of injuries/deaths result from a disaster

2/3 result AFTER the storm, people cut themselves with chain saws, the gasoline stored to run their generator burns their house down, falling off ladders or roofs, etc. He said they taught him that one the first day of training. He lives in Central Florida and is also a volunteer firefighter, so he's seen his share of disasters.

[obamanut2012]

85. And people ALWAYS go out and take pictures or look at damage

Often during the eye. And, they die from falling limbs and trees, live wires, etc.

Also, unless your home is on fire, YOU STAY INSIDE AND HOPE FOR THE BEST DURING A STORM. You never, ever leave your home. The odds are great you will drown, your car will be washed away, you will be hot by flying debris, you will be killed by live wires. There's a reason First Responders do NOT attempt rescues during a hurricane. They, too, will die.

[HooptieWagon]

95. Your friend in Central Florida hasn't had to deal with storm surge.

Most hurricane deaths are due to drowning, either storm surge or inland flash floods. Yes, there are other ways to die in a hurricane, but they are random. You can be hit by a tornado anywhere, same with falling tree or heart attack. But your chances of drowning are greatly reduced if you evacuate the storm surge area ahead of time.

[Atman]

117. Well yes actually, he has.

Florida is kinda surrounded by water. He's dealt with many hurricanes, and doesn't just stay in his home town -- Cocoa Beach, which is a barrier island.

[HooptieWagon]

118. Then thats East Coast.

Central Florida = Orlando, Kissimmee, Apopka, Winter Park, etc.

[intheflow]

154. Not in Mississippi during Katrina.

Most of the deaths there occurred far inland from tornadoes spun out from the storm. It was still a hurricane, had not yet downgraded to a tropical storm.

[sabrina 1]

14. The death toll on Staten Island was nearly half of the total NY death toll.

You don't need FB, the people on Staten Island themselves have been searching for missing family and friends who have not been found.

The total death toll across the US has been rising every day and is currently at 106 from the last report I read.

69 people lost their lives across the Caribbean, with Haiti suffering the biggest losses, and those numbers are from a few days ago.

I definitely hope there are no more deaths on Staten Island or anywhere else, but residents of the Island today did say they are 'still digging up bodies' so all we can do is hope that they get to everyone who needs help before it is too late.

[HooptieWagon]

17. No question there were a lot of deaths on SI.

People refused to evacuate, despite warnings and plenty of time. They elected a teabagger congressman... I guess they are mistrustful of gov't officials telling them a flood is gonna come.

However, OP said "people are dying all over". That is present tense. I am quite sure people are not dying all over Staten Island at this very moment. People might be bitching their lives aren't immediately back to normal, but they aren't being ignored.

[DevonRex]

18. +1. People are not dying all over Staten Island.

Exactly.

[sabrina 1]

21. That's not why they died. Falling trees have killed more people than anything else.

On Staten Island people in the mandatory evacuation areas most likely did leave as most people there have lived on the Island for generations and have family all over the Island.

When we lived on Shelter Island eg, people along the shoreline simply went to stay with friends and family who were on the Island but not directly on the shore, or on higher ground. They could return once the storm passed so it's no big deal to evacuate on an Island like that.

Gas lines, fires, many other factors no one could anticipate kills people during and after storms like this. The idea that all these deaths are due to people not evacuating is simply false.

As time goes by also, elderly people die from the cold, from lack of water if help doesn't come soon enough. Storms like this are not predictable, there is no way to be really safe, evacuating or not as so many of the NYC deaths have sadly demonstrated.

[HooptieWagon]

64. 15 of 20 bodies were found in the evacuation zone.

Probability is they drowned. Of the remaining 5, 4 were recovered at the very edge of the evacuation zone... I'll hazard a guess and say they drowned and the storm surge deposited their bodies there. 1 body was recovered several blocks inland from the evacuation zone, cause of death could be anything, but probably not drowning.

Yes, there were several deaths from falling trees. Most hurricane deaths are caused by drowning however, either in storm surge or inland floods. Of the 200+ deaths in Sandy, counting Carribean and US, that will again prove to be the case.

[obamanut2012]

87. +1 This isn't NOLA during Katrina

And Obama isn't W.

Hell, Christie and Bloomberg are doing pretty damned good, too.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

19. The death toll is currently 109. Which includes the two bodies found on Staten Island today.

Sandy death toll in US rises to 109; 'there could be more,' Blomberg warns

Updated 11:20 p.m. ET: The death toll in the United States from Superstorm Sandy rose to 109 victims on Friday, as Pennsylvania reported four additional deaths and New York City reported two more fatalities. Mayor Michael Blomberg warned: "There could be more fatalities."


Two bodies were recovered Friday on Staten Island. The toll in the nation's largest city is now 41 deaths, according to the governor's office. However, the New York Police Department had reported 40 deaths in the city.

Half of the city's deaths were on Staten Island and Blomberg noted the deaths there of two brothers swept from their mother's arms in the storm surge.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/02/14884300-sandy-death-toll-in-us-rises-to-109-there-could-be-more-bloomberg-warns?lite

From what I've been seeing on news reports, Staten Island is pretty much destroyed. The problems they're running into is some family members don't know if their loved ones ended up ignoring the evacuation orders as they said they would, or not. If they don't find their bodies immediately in their homes, it doesn't mean they didn't try to leave last minute before the bridges closed. If that's the case they have to sift through the rubble piece by piece until they either find them, or as in a lucky case I read about today, the person finally got a message out to their family that they had fled and made it out at the last minute.

[HooptieWagon]

96. Most of the damage was along the shore.

Inland areas have no power, and possibly some wind damage, but by and large OK. And I think the only access is by ferry... could be wrong.

[Honeycombe8]

58. +1 If there's one thing media does, it's dramatize and report on EVERYTHING. Lot of air time to fill

[obamanut2012]

84. I agree -- and, I've been through worse hurricanes

and the area I lived in was hit much harder than there. I know what an aftermath of a hurricane is. It sucks.

I am not saying people haven't had their ass kicked by this, and that they aren't suffering, but I really don't believe what the person wrote on FB.

Q: Are the bridge(s) onto Staten Island destroyed or still under water? No, right?

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Media not reporting on a full on disaster in a somewhat well to do area?

The only accurate part of that, serious, is the power issues.

It will take anywhere from a month to six weeks to restore it. a LOT of infrastructure is down. And I mean like very seriously down. As in distribution plants having issues.

[PATXgirl]

3. One thing they may have to look at is relocating people to a safe place until the basic services can

Be rebuilt. That had to be done with Katrina. Houston and several other towns became a temporary home for a lot of New Orleans residents until it was safe to move home and start their own rebuilding.

[aquart]

44. We can't relocate our cops and firemen out of state.

Next idea.

[JVS]

4. The media is not going to avoid reporting on what would be a huge story.

[flamingdem]

6. Janet Napolitano was there today, it's not like there are being ignored

wtf

[Fire Walk With Me]

8. They are of course on-scene, but are not reporting the depth of issues which could be demoralizing

or something. I don't know either. Several crews of citizen organizations are getting in and are attempting to make a difference, and are reporting the sad details.

[aquart]

42. "Or something"? You do know who lives on Staten Island, right?

COPS. FIREMEN. UNION UNIFORMED SERVICES.

And you seriously believe they are allowing their families to die in silence? How do you imagine that scenario?

Where is their city councilmember hiding? Or their borough president? Or their very own Congressman? Do you believe the people of Staten Island are being ignored by their representatives FOUR DAYS BEFORE AN ELECTION?

Exactly what does your mind encompass by that seemingly witless "or something"?

[speedoo]

51. And almost all of them are rethugs.

OP is talking nonsense.

[conscious awareness]

105. You are so biased that it makes me head spin.

So are the victims "thugs" for Mittens, then? Those actually in the midst of the situation? You really need the narrative to be about Obama saving the day?

[speedoo]

122. Not gonna waste my time responding to you.

You won't be around much longer.

[SidDithers]

142. They're already gone, again...nt

Sid

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. And what if all of them are republicans?

Life, yes life, is more enjoyable when you stop looking at life through just partisan glasses. In disasters political affiliation, religion, or even economic status, matters not.

As to the OP, I got a few professional reasons to doubt some of the story.

[speedoo]

124. My point is, with Staten Island dominated by rethugs...

including a very partisan Borough President and Congressman, there is no way they would be silent if what the OP seems to be alleging were true.

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. And my point is that I REALLY DO NOT GIVE A DAMN if every resident

of the Island was a republican? And you should not care either.

As to the OP, there are very good reasons to doubt some of the story. In fact, large portions of it.

[speedoo]

133. Here's why I care about who the Staten Island residents are:

They determine who my congressman is, even though I live in Brooklyn. And I am fed up with having one douchebag rethug after another representing me in Washington.

So don't tell me not to care about who lives in Staten Island.

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. I am very much limiting it to disaster response

but your mileage will obviously vary.

[speedoo]

136. Obviously. Nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

138. And I should not? I mean all is normal in SI right?

[cliffordu]

54. +111111

Fox Snooze would have a thousand reporters on the ground if this were true.

[monmouth]

71. I know some Mafioso used to have homes there also. n/t

[obamanut2012]

89. That's an excellent point

Lots of connected people live on Staten Island, too.

[Luminous Animal]

104. The SI Borough President says the Red Cross's response has been a disgrace.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/02/staten-island-red-cross-hurricane-sandy_n_2065209.html

Staten Island Borough President Urges Residents Not To Donate To Red Cross After Sandy Debacle

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. Of course...

Oy...

By the way this is a common reaction in every disaster, in and outside the United States.

If I got a buck every time, I would have retired comfortably already.

[Luminous Animal]

121. I thought you were a reporter?

I'd think you would take the time to do necessary research before rejecting criticism...

It looks a bit more complicated and it looks like the Red Cross is covering their ass.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/03/nyregion/anger-grows-at-the-red-cross-response-to-the-storm.html?partner=socialflow&smid=tw-nytmetro

Yet worrisome glimpses of the overall Red Cross effort continued to emerge. Some Red Cross volunteers told of wild-goose chases to remote locations with hours out in the cold and few if any people to serve. In parts of the Rockaways, residents said that Red Cross trucks were nowhere to be seen on Friday.

James O’Connell, the logistics coordinator for a 40-person search-and-rescue nonprofit group that was volunteering in Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island, called the Red Cross response to the storm “a figment of everyone’s imagination.”

“I’ve come across one Red Cross canteen truck on Staten Island last night,” Mr. O’Connell said. “Two people inside. They said, ‘Hey, how you doing?’ And then they asked us for drinking water.”

He added: “I have tremendous respect for what they’ve done in the past. They have simply dropped the damn ball here.”

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. Yes, it happens every time

so what is new? Some response is not that good, some of it is expectations that are well and above the realm of posibitiy.

So what is new?

[Luminous Animal]

126. You made the knee jerk assumption that these suffering people merely engaged in

useless whining. The article clearly reveals that the complaints are valid.

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. You know, this happens every time

I have been on the front lines, different language

I learned a long time ago that their complaints are real... even if they "seem to be whining."

I also learned a long time ago that people WILL COMPLAINT, period, and funny, it is not limited to the people receiving the help. nothing funnier than hearing front line emergency workers grousing about management. Hell, I did it, when I was a young responder, since I swear I could do it better than the people on top... until it was my turn. I am sure a few front line workers complained as well...

It is human nature.

Why I said, if I got a buck for each time...

Now I am not being critical of the people on the ground... but I know this happens every fracking time. And i mean that, every fracking time. And part of it, actually, from experience in the field, is expectations of things that cannot happen any faster for logistical reasons that are well, to be honest, not well understood at times.

You may call it whatever you want to call it. But serious, this happens every time. I wish we could all snap fingers and things get better instantly... but last time I checked we do not have magic. Will give you a silly example, locally. At the last fire one of the residents could not comprehend why the fire department could not tell him if his house was still standing. This is in the middle of the fire ok. there is still active fire fighting going on. His complaint was understandable, but I fully understood why the FD could not tell him with any certainty if his home was still standing.

Yup, he got into a screaming match with FD personnel and we reported on it. But I actually get it, why the FD could not give him that information instantly.

[sabrina 1]

120. Actually, Staten Island has more registered Democrats than Republicans.

I've seen their city council members on TV, so I doubt they are 'letting people die' from what I heard from them.

Staten Island is more like a swing state, it IS a working class area, but it does have many Democrats and even some of the Republicans, such as Molinari eg, have been fairly moderate.

[Fire Walk With Me]

153. It was sarcasm. Sorry for not using the emoticon.

[wundermaus]

7. Thank you, Fire Walk With Me

For being a reliable beacon of light for the people in the darkness (here and in Staten Island).
(the m$m is nothing more than a tool of the elite few)
We value and appreciate your community spirited service to this discussion board and beyond.
- wundermaus and many others.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

9. 4 Red Cross trucks, several FEMA officials, and Napolitano went there today...

This is disinformation.

[Fire Walk With Me]

13. Citizen channels have been carrying direct information since day 1, and still are.

[HooptieWagon]

101. And police scanners have been domestic disputes.

I guess the police are part of the conspiracy to hide the "real truth". Tune in to citizen channels!

[progressivebydesign]

145. my neighbor, a Glenn Beck devotee is part of that "citizen channel"

they love to spread rumors, and catastrophize everything. Not a source of reliable info. Also extremely right wing, like hardcore Beck and Liddy types.

[DevonRex]

10. Good lord. Janet Napolitano was there today. TODAY.

The networks were all there today. Actually ON Staten Island. Networks are actually based IN New York City. If there's a major story right there it will be reported.

[LisaL]

12. Exactly.

I don't doubt it sucks to be without electricity. But it's not like this area doesn't get attention.
That marathon was supposed to start there.

[obamanut2012]

90. Right -- Staten Island isn't some isolated badwater

And, it isn't like it's even cut off from the Mainland -- all the bridges appear to be intact, and Manhattan and NJ are right there. SI has a rather large population, with lots of union officials (and, as per other posters, "garbage officials&quot .

Also, aren't the Baldwins from there? Alec Baldwin would be all over TV and twitter if this was true.

This DID happen in NOLA, and we knew about it. Even when the Outer Banks get whacked and are cut off from the Mainland, people know what's going on.

Ridiculous.

[The Straight Story]

11. Meh, I posted a thread today about what fema has been doing, gets little love here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021691386

I think because it takes too long to read and has too much info and people want headlines.

[railsback]

20. Bullshit story

Like many of the bullshit stories. Even on HuffPo, writing bullshit stories, like 'one resident says.....' Ok, where are the photos of thousands of people sitting in one area, begging for food and water, a la Katrina? There aren't any because that's not what's happening. In that HuffPo story, the truth was revealed. There are shelters and food centers set up, but many of these people don't want to leave their property for fear of being 'ripped off', and they're demanding front door service.

Its all bullshit, and the media does love some big piles of stinky bullshit.

[Egnever]

22. LOL @ doing support work on twitter

Too funny

[cui bono]

23. My reaction exactly. Come on...

Plus, people aren't "dying all over the island". Hyperbole won't get you anywhere.

And claiming you have to get back to your "support work on Twitter" won't get you taken seriously.

Oh yeah, and yesterday I read a couple threads about how the media was spending too much time reporting on Staten Island.

[Tarheel_Dem]

28. "Hyperbole". Exactly. And this is why Occupy has been a huge failure. If this is how....

they think they can revive a pretty much defunct "movement", then rest assured, the "movement" is on life support, with a very grave prognosis. These libertarian hypocrites who hate the government anyway, can always find a way to blame the government for pretty much anything.

[randome]

72. Not to mention this is an obvious attempt to co-opt a tragedy for one's own use.

Fail. Screw Occupy. How about getting PEOPLE to help PEOPLE? Why does a name need to be attached to rescue efforts?

[Luminous Animal]

119. Getting people to help people is exactly what they are doing.

https://statenisland.recovers.org/

This is a recovery organizing site for Staten Island in the wake of Hurricane Sandy. The site allows people to offer/request assistance, and is coordinated by the folks at Occupy NYC and community organizations on the ground.

The Volunteer Network
http://notes.occupy.net/ro/r.6sxtRUCbCm3fAXA6

Organizing and posting info where to find or send food & water, clothing and supplies:
https://twitter.com/OccupySandy
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23sirecovers&src=hash
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23sandyhelp&src=hash
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23helpstatenisland&src=
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23siopen&src=hash
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SandyAid&src=hash

[randome]

130. No one's faulting anyone for trying to help.

But 'Occupy Sandy'? What the hell does that even mean?

And 'people-powered'? What the hell does that mean?

That plus the usual hyperbole in the OP rightly turns people off.

[Luminous Animal]

134. Here you go...

https://statenisland.recovers.org/

This is a recovery organizing site for Staten Island in the wake of Hurricane Sandy. The site allows people to offer/request assistance, and is coordinated by the folks at Occupy NYC and community organizations on the ground.

http://notes.occupy.net/p/SandyVolunteer
https://twitter.com/OccupySandy
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SandyAid&src=hash
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23sirecovers&src=hash
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23sandyhelp&src=hash
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23helpstatenisland&src=hash

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021704067#post4

Occupy Sandy in Rockaway. Fills the GAP between the Red Cross and city services
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/11/occupy-sandy.html?mbid=social_retweet&mobify=0

At the St. Francis de Sales church on B-129th Street, the church hall has been taken over by Occupy Sandy—an offshoot of the still-active networks of Occupy Wall Street. Supplies have been driven here from all over Brooklyn: back there are piles of blankets; on the tables here are diapers, baby food, and cleaning supplies; over there, clothes (grownup, child, baby); more than a hundred pairs of shoes lined up neatly on the bleachers. Residents of the neighborhood wander around the hall, filling bags. In the front entranceway Occupy volunteers are unloading cases of bottled water from a truck, handing the heavy cases one to the next, a bucket brigade to the back of the church. The volunteers move fast but the job lasts more than half an hour—it’s a big truck. In front of the church, long tables have been set up on the sidewalk, where volunteers are serving hot food and peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches.

The Red Cross doesn’t accept individual donations of household goods—these things, it says, need to be cleaned, sorted, and repackaged, and all that takes up more time than they’re worth. It asks for financial donations only. New York Cares requires its volunteers to go through orientation sessions, all of which are full till late November. But Occupy, as you would expect, has a different style. For instance: as soon as it was safe to go outside after the storm, first thing Tuesday morning, Michael Premo and a couple of people he knew got in a car and drove over to Red Hook. Premo is a freelance artist who lives in Bedford-Stuyvesant and just turned thirty. He was at Zuccotti Park every day last fall, though he never slept there, and after the park encampment was disbanded he kept in touch with the movement. There are big neighborhood assemblies in Sunset Park and Red Hook, smaller ones elsewhere in Brooklyn. Many meet each week, organizing around local issues—rent strikes in Sunset Park, anti-gentrification in Crown Heights.

.........

Meanwhile, organizing was going on: we need to make food, we need a kitchen. The Red Hook Initiative has a kitchen but it’s too small. Phone calls. There’s a church on Fourth Avenue at 55th Street in Sunset Park, St. Jacobi, whose pastor likes Occupy—they have a big kitchen. They also have a hall that can be used as a headquarters to receive donations. Done—meet there. Get in the car. Somebody set up a website, there needs to be a short, clear list of what is needed and where to take it. Make sure it stays updated. Phone calls. We need volunteers to sort donations. We need sandwiches made. We need tinfoil to wrap the sandwiches in. We need people to drive out to Zone A to deliver supplies. People are running low on gas, not everyone can get to Sunset Park. Phone calls. Satellite drop-off centers for donations established in Fort Greene, Park Slope, Williamsburg, and Bed-Stuy. Phone calls. Coordinate with people in Manhattan—CAAAV, an Asian American organization on Hester Street, is asking for volunteers in Chinatown. Can anyone get to Chinatown? The people at Good Old Lower East Side need volunteers to knock on doors in housing projects to see if old or sick people need help—they’re doing it between twelve and six every day and they need as many people as they can get (we’re sending hundreds). Someone needs to go out to the Rockaways and figure out a distribution center. Maybe St. Francis de Sales. It’s on 129th Street. Remember, phones don’t work there. Neither do traffic lights.

[randome]

137. Okay. Good for them for helping.

I'll cease denigrating the phrases used to describe the help but I hope we'll see less hyperbole when describing the situation, as well.

[Luminous Animal]

141. It's pretty bad but I don't believe that people are dying all over the place.

Independent journalists are trying to confirm the current death count in Staten Island but officials have been unresponsive. With much of the infrastructure in place now and adequate volunteer relief for cooking and distribution, I believe that they are going to have teams of search and rescue volunteers up and running by tomorrow. Fortunately, today the Red Cross stationed a few medical trucks on SI. Hopefully, they are in accessible (as in, walkable) locations as gas availability is low and mass transportation is grossly packed - unable to pick up on many routes - and service is spotty.

[Tarheel_Dem]

127. The same reason Jill Stein gets arrested 10 times a week. Publicity. The fact that Occupy....

has rushed to insinuate itself into a national tragedy speaks volumes about their complete lack of integrity, and branding their "assistance" under the banner of Occupy Sandy? WTF? This is branding gone haywire, and I think it will backfire on a "movement" people were already questioning, and more importantly, already forgetting about. The remnants of Occupy will rightly be seen as opportunistic vultures, much like the guy who's trying to replace the POTUS.

[FSogol]

102. +1 Spot on.

[DemocratsForProgress]

24. Really!

Power to the people, tweet on...

[HiPointDem]

27. funny during arab spring DUers were totally on-board with the twitter support work. i guess

that social media thing communication thingee, being the news, bypassing the entrenched media, is only for foreigners.

[ToxMarz]

29. Oh yes this is a direct corollary to Arab Spring.

The hyperbole is getting deep, where are my boots.

[HiPointDem]

30. i didn't say this disaster was a direct corollary to arab spring. i said the idea of using social

media to get out information that the msm misses is a direct corollary. supported here in the case of arab spring, but mocked in the present situation. for some reason.

i guess the assumption of some DUers is that US media are completely honest. except when they report bad things about democratic officeholders, in which case they are bought & sold & tools of big money.

which is it, i wonder.

i know from personal experience that the media lies, by omission and commission, as the poster said. i have no idea if what he says is true about SI, but i don't rule it out of hand & am very interested in what ordinary people are reporting, as opposed to the msm.

[msanthrope]

34. What information, precisely, is not being reported about Staten Island? This sounds like McKinney

claiming FEMA executed 5,000 African Americans during Katrina....

Can Cynthia McKinney's press conference be far behind???

[cui bono]

86. It's one thing to use Twitter to organize etc...

It's another to say "I have to get back to my support work on Twitter" as if one sits at it all day. Tweeting doesn't take that long. Retweeting takes even less time. Tweeting is something that can be done while doing other support work.

Plus, this is not some secret plan that needs to be kept from an oppressive government, support is out in the open, there are plenty of organizations out there doing it. What percentage of the support system do you really think can be attributed to someone sitting and monitoring their Twitter feed?

Organizing relief efforts and a massive uprising against a government are completely different beasts. They're so far from being the same situation it doesn't merit comparison at all.

[HiPointDem]

110. i direct you to this:

https://twitter.com/OccupySandy

[cui bono]

115. okay...

I never said it wasn't useful. I don't get your point.

[HiPointDem]

116. that *is* 'organizing'. & the poster is helping to do it. more than some (most?) of the folks

making fun of him are doing.

[Luminous Animal]

123. Goddamn it! He's is disabled! Tweeting and retweeting important information that

tells people where to donate, what to donate... where food, water, supplies, etc. are located is important. Broadcasting where there is the greatest need is important.

I've been following the twitter feeds... addresses have been posted so volunteers can find snf help trapped people. People have coordinated cooking and delivering food. They've coordinated drop off sites and the volunteers to get to the sites to sort through and deliver donations. They are posting the names and addresses of stores and gas stations that are open and still have supplies.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SandyAid&src=hash
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23sirecovers&src=hash
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23sandyhelp&src=hash
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23helpstatenisland&src=hash

[Fire Walk With Me]

151. I'm disabled. I =do= sit at it all day, when I'm not asleep from exhaustion. Especially right now.

[Luminous Animal]

103. Yeah. Mocking a disabled man who is contributing the the best of his

abilities is soooo funny.

https://twitter.com/OccupySandy

http://notes.occupy.net/p/SandyVolunteer

https://statenisland.recovers.org/

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23sirecovers&src=hash

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23helpstatenisland&src=hash

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23siopen&src=hash

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23sandyhelp&src=hash

[msanthrope]

25. Twittering on Twitter is not "support work." That's an insult to every single Red Cross volunteer

out there.

[DCBob]

26. +1

twitter "support work".. good grief.

[Fire Walk With Me]

149. Please see post 123. Thank you very much.

[Summer Hathaway]

32. "They also serve

who only sit and Tweet."

[msanthrope]

33. 101st Chairborne. They are really in the thick of things!!! nt

[Summer Hathaway]

36. Many of those

of the Fightin' 101st succumb to carpal tunnel by their end of their first tour. It's no laughing matter, sir.

[msanthrope]

37. I think the PTSD--post-traumatic snark disorder is what really

gets them. Do you have any idea what it's like to present your ideas outside of the bubble, only to have them shot down by mean facts, and snotty DLC'ers who claim to be progressive??? I think they have support groups for this on other sites....

And I am a ma'am (as in ham).

[Summer Hathaway]

38. Apologies, ma'am!

Ms. Anthrope - got it!

[msanthrope]

39. None needed. nt

[Luminous Animal]

82. Fire is disabled.

And yes, social media support has been an important tool to broadcast needs and locations.

https://twitter.com/OccupySandy

https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%23helpstatenisland&src=hash

https://statenisland.recovers.org/

[HappyMe]

65. Exactly.

[obamanut2012]

91. Exactly -- go deliver food and water to some Seniors

or something else useful.

Social media, especially twitter IS great during a crisis but now is the time to roll up your sleeves and help out, if you are actually on the ground there.

[Fire Walk With Me]

147. I am disabled. I do electronic support and help to spread information

amdist masses of people who are helping and who are interested in helping.

I used to do copwatch on Skid Row in LA, among other things. I do count my work with Occupy as positive and meaningful.

Others obviously stridently disagree.

[Fire Walk With Me]

150. Occupy have been in areas the Red Cross and FEMA haven't begun to touch for the first few days after

Sandy. Spreading information to all involved and wishing to be involved is important. Also, see post 123 for far more specific information.

[Summer Hathaway]

31. Wow! This all makes so much sense!

The media, which knows that coverage of a disaster of any kind puts asses on the couch in front of the TV, a media always craving ratings, a media that is about to lose the "it's a horse-race" story that they've relied on for months to keep viewers tuned-in, is totally ignoring a big scoop - for what reason, exactly?

Of course, who can ignore the source of this tale? Surely Occupy Binghamton knows the score on what's happening on Staten Island.

But, hey, don't bother explaining it for me. I wouldn't want to divert your efforts from your support work on Twitter.

[Savannahmann]

40. There are dozens of stories out there.

Each of them heartbreaking.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/staten-island-residents-plead-article-1.1195599#ixzz2B4ygH4Y7

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/11/02/staten-islanders-on-sandy-response-weve-been-left-far-behind/

As for those doubters, the media has never told us the truth about anything, what makes you think they're being honest about this? How can helicopters fly over areas all day showing destruction and there not be suffering? What is needed is determination to reach all the effected areas, and get the supplies they so desperately need in. Without that determination, there is no hope.

“Red Cross is here with hot chocolate and cookies. We need blankets, we need pillows, we need clothing. We can get hot chocolate and cookies, we need help!” resident Jodi Hannula said.

It was almost too much for Hannula to bear. She said she had 30 years of memories washed away by flood waters.

And with no flood insurance, she said she’s been pleading for help, but finding little.

“You hope that the government does the right thing and steps in and helps us out. We have been looking for FEMA, [but] FEMA has not been here,” Hannula said.

If the roads are blocked, clear them with bulldozers. If that is impossible, fly the supplies in and ignore the VIP media event tours. We have Marines who practice going up on beaches. So tell them to go up on this beach and bring food, water, blankets. Give the people a chance to survive.

[Summer Hathaway]

43. "The media has never told us the truth about anything

what makes you think they're being honest about this?"

This isn't a matter of the media telling the truth. It's a matter of (or so we are being led to believe) the media ignoring just the type of story they thrive on, and usually spin with over-the-top drama just to ensure viewership and ratings.

So 'splain to us all why they are ignoring this 'story', and what their motive would be in doing so.

[Savannahmann]

46. Ad revenue and corporate direction.

What advertisements are they showing? The Candidates are flooding the airwaves with ads to get elected to every office from dog catcher to President. I'm surprised you hadn't noticed that. So the story that all the media are invested in is the election. That's one.

Hurricane Katrina. The Media was accused of and blasted for overhyping the situation with Katrina. It was one of the major reasons that the Rethugs were voted out of office. So a hyped story now, like this, would have a serious outcome of effecting the election just days away. What would be the backlash of the elected officials if the stories turned out to be more hype than fact? In a word, enormous.

They canceled the Marathon, would they do that if all was just fine and dandy in New York?

Mayor Bloomburg said that the Marathon would go on. Then he canceled after critics said it was stupid while power was out to a vast majority of the city. People are &feature=youtu.be" target="_blank">deficating in hallways because there is nowhere for them to go.

Of course, the Marathon was supposed to start here.

Now, the media is reporting, but you're not seeing it. I wonder why? Are you merely reading Huffington Post? They are a political blog, a good one, the best IMO, but a political blog not a news source.

The information is out there, if you choose to ignore it, then you choose to be ignorant. Over one hundred people have died, and you are operating under the asinine impression that all is well. How in hell could a Cat II hurricane hit the most densly populated region in our nation and there not be massive devistation?

[Summer Hathaway]

48. Of course the media is invested in the election

which, of course, will be all over in a few days. Which means the beast needs fresh blood - and wouldn't a Katrina-like story be a handy replacement? And yet, for some reason, they're not going there. What would that reason be?

I don't read HuffPo. My source of SI news is more direct - being my relatives who live there. I have no illusion that 'all is well'. At the same time, all is not what Occupy Binghamton (!?!) is trying to say it is.

[Savannahmann]

49. Really?

You didn't look at the links that I sent. Statin Island is a disaster area. No food for three days. no water. No power. People wandering into shelters dazed and barefoot. The Red Cross showed up with cookies and hot chocolate. Better than nothing, but asinine in the circumstances. Hotels were told to evict the people staying there to make room for Marathon visitors. Beyond asinine.

If your Relatives are doing well, I am glad to hear it. Your Relatives are not the whole story, and more than a hundred relatives of someone else are dead. More are being found in wreckage all the time. It's freezing up there, and soon the victims will begin dying from exposure, and perhaps the news will mention it to your relatives so you hear about it.

[Summer Hathaway]

50. Or maybe my relatives

will hook up with the OWSies from Binghamton, who will tell them what's really going on.

[Savannahmann]

60. Here are some more stories, surprised you haven't heard.

Here's one. http://www.nbcnewyork.com/video/#!/on-air/as-seen-on/Rockaway-Residents-Demand-More-Help/177061841

Here is a woman begging Senator Shumer to help. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/11/were-going-to-die-staten-island-residents-plead-for-help-3-days-after-sandy/

But I'm sure she's unaware of how well things are going.

Oh, there are stories coming out. http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/11/02/sons-of-anarchy-irene-staten-island/

It’s so bad here, a lot worse than how its being portrayed by the media. They are finding bodies left and right, elderly people who don’t even watch the news or who knew the storm was coming. I was just with one of my best friends from high school and college, and his house is completely gone. One story I heard was about this one guy who evacuated his house during Hurricane Irene but then it got looted. So when they told him to evacuate for Sandy, he said, ‘I’m not leaving.’ Now they can’t find him, his 13-year-old daughter is dead, and his wife is in critical condition at the hospital.

At last notice, the count of dead was 109. One hundred and nine people died in this storm. I wonder where it will end, and the truth is, it probably won't anytime soon. Because nobody cares, and everybody thinks things are going swimmingly up there.

In West Virginia, the had the damage from the storm, and then snow. So people are without power, and buried in snow. But they are merely exaggerating the problem. I'll wait until my relatives let me know how things are going before I think it is going badly.

[Summer Hathaway]

113. Oh, ferchrissake

Do you honestly think there is anyone here who doesn't know how badly SI got hit, and how devastating the aftermath is?

The OP that prompted this discussion is suggesting that SI is being completely ignored by the media and more - the inference being that Occupy is coming to the rescue by getting the word out.

People are dead, injured, dying. Homes have been destroyed. People are missing and still unaccounted for.

We all KNOW that - despite the OP's contention, inferred or implied, that this is a story that NO ONE was aware of until OWS got involved.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. The Red Cross opened shelters

Full fledged ones, and is running mass feeding operations.

Now THREE DAYS...my lord, Jesus this is what every expert in response RECOMMENDS people are able and willing to be on their own... You know why? You just typed why.

[union_maid]

55. I doubt ANYONE is claiming all is well there

That everything is being done as quickly as possible given the geography and problems in accessing some of the affected areas is quite different than saying all is well.

[jwirr]

78. 100+ have died across the whole area not just Staten Island. And there will be more. You are right

about the possible damage from a Cat II but when it is prepared for and people follow instructions a lot of lose of life can be avoided. There was massive preparation went into this storm and it is working. Just not as fast as Occupy Birmingham thinks it should.

Here I have two sources if information that I must choose from to learn the truth. MSM - mostly MSNBC - Rachel Maddow etc or Occupy Birmingham. I choose to believe Rachel because she has been reliable for a long time now. I do not actually know that Occupy Birmingham is who he/she says they are - even a member of Occupy. Any of us can say that.

The people of Staten Island are in terrible trouble. Most of them have lost everything and many have lost loved ones. It is natural to feel that "help" is not coming fast enough. It is also natural to blame the organizations including the government for not fixing everything. This is not Katrina where people were deliberately denied assistance that cause deaths. As to the media what do they gain by refusing to tell the whole story? To story says the government is paying them not to? I want proof of that before I will believe it. They are too busy trying to pay for the needs of the victims without paying for a useless cover up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. Local fire, local resident who lost all, snapped in his anger

At both media (that be me and hubby) and fire department personnel who were unable to save their home.

This reaction is normal...it is part of the grieving process.

[jwirr]

114. Yes. and these poor people have a long process to go through yet.

[BlueToTheBone]

59. She lives on an island with no flood insurance?

My, that is really trusting in the lord!

[HooptieWagon]

61. As future reference....

If the place you live ends in "Island", " Beach", or "Bay"; its probably a good idea to have flood insurance, and to evacuate during a hurricane.

[BlueToTheBone]

68. Indeed. Or at least, I would. n/t

[former-republican]

62. There's a good chance you are going to pay for her house to be rebuilt

So she doesn't need it

[msanthrope]

67. Probably not---it's entirely possible that Zone A in Staten Island

becomes preserve.

[BlueToTheBone]

69. You mean turn a barrier island into

a barrier? Oh my, what a concept. Wouldn't that be wonderful? Returning the island to the wild? I'd visit to just take pictures.

[msanthrope]

73. Lots of Staten Island is 'wild' already. You have Claypit and Greenbelt, and lots of other

green space....the thing that is apparent is that Zone A throughout NYC will have to be re-evaluated. Let's hope Bloomie is willing to take the heat, and do it.

[BlueToTheBone]

75. It's hard to take the real estate developer

out of the mayor. Good luck to us all.

[railsback]

70. ""And with no flood insurance, she said she’s been pleading for help, but finding little. """

Yeah, no shit. Self pity and blaming others.

This b.s. is getting real tiresome.

[obamanut2012]

93. This is Staten Island, part of Metro NYC

It's highly populated, a huge media center, it's connected to NJ and NYC, union officials and workers live there, famous people are from there, there would be no way to hide this.

You know, parts of the Jersey Shore have been devastated worse than SI, as was the neighborhood in Queens that burned down. Maybe we can spread the media and concern around to those folks, too.

[WinkyDink]

139. FOX doesn't want to.

[cali]

45. Twittering as relief work. who knew?

[Bolo Boffin]

47. Boston Globe: Battered by storm, Staten Islanders feel forgotten

http://www.boston.com/news/weather/2012/11/03/battered-storm-staten-islanders-feel-forgotten/ArcRHDAfNIvGbZ1IQuC4wL/story.html

[Kolesar]

53. Headline is hype/sensationalizing

I read the first page.

[still_one]

52. I have no doubt that people have not been fully accounted for, and there will be more deaths for

those who did not get out in time.

I also believe that the media will eventually get to it, but a lot of the problem is the chaos from the storm, and the aftermath which is still an ongoing issue

[Chiquitita]

56. I want to help

Why on the FB page are commenters saying not to donate to Red Cross? They say tunneltowners.org is better. Anyone know why?

[treestar]

57. If that was the case, the media would be there

The media always looks for the bad news - that's ridiculous.

If they will be without power for so long, there should be a reason. Not credible, since people come from other parts of the country to help, in these instances.

[LiberalEsto]

63. Horror story from Staten Island

I got an email from a friend on S.I. this morning.

This friend's 32-year-old daughter and her boyfriend lived on S.I. near the ocean. During the storm Monday night water surged into their house and they had to climb out on the roof( during the high wind and rain) and lash themselves down with extension cords to survive. They had a tarp over them. The house started floating in the waves.

When the water calmed down slightly they were close enough to another house to climb in a window on the second story and wait for rescue hours later. It's a miracle they survived. Someone who was older, much younger, or weaker might not have made it.

She sent photos. The remains of the house are flat as a pancake. They lost everything except their lives.

[HooptieWagon]

74. "Lived in a house near the ocean"

They ignored orders to evacuate and expect pity? They should be thankful their stupidity didn't cost them their lives.

[Marrah_G]

79. Wait...what??????

[OregonBlue]

76. So you are in Los Angeles trying to tell us that you have the real scoop on what is going on on

Staten Island? Somehow I just can't buy it. There are reporters all over the island. FEMA was all over the island yesterday. I have no doubt that they will continue to find bodies of people who did not evacuate for some time. That doesn't mean that no one is doing anything. It only means that people may have been buried under debris.

Please don't try to make an already bad situation worse. The residents need boots on the ground, not hyperbolic tweets right now.

[SidDithers]

143. ^^^^^^^^ This...

Sid

[starroute]

80. Is anybody aware of just how large Staten Island is?

It's several times the size of Manhattan. So saying, "There are reporters all over the island. FEMA was all over the island yesterday," is a considerable exaggeration.

Here's a satellite image. Manhattan is the really bright bit near the middle. The Bronx to the northeast, Queens and Brooklyn to the east and southeast. But if you follow from the tip of Manhattan, across the black area that is the harbor, and to the southwest, you get to Staten Island.

Notice how much dimmer it is than any of the other boroughs. Notice the sections that are completely dark. It's not rural, but it's far from urban. And it has an area of just over 100 square miles. So no, reporters have not been "all over" it, and even FEMA has barely begun to scratch the surface.

Reporters like disasters that are within easy reach of good hotels and restaurants. Manhattan, great. Brooklyn, maybe. But Staten Island? They're barely going to want to get out of their cars.

[hoboken123]

88. It's not an exaggeration...

The island's back up to 90% with power. There are shelters set up.

What are you looking for?

[Brickbat]

83. Your OP illustates the downside of so-called "citizen journalism." Engaged and excited

amateurs who believe they are doing important work are often prone to exaggerating or extrapolating inaccurately what they're experiencing. It's human nature to take our own experiences and see them as the most important. It's also human nature -- especially when dealing with extraordinary circumstances, such as a natural disaster -- to see our experiences as iconic representations of reality. All of this lends itself to hyperbolic and exaggerated reporting. I've seen it happen.

[randome]

112. And defeats the very purpose of reporting in the first place.

Well said!

[RagAss]

92. Yawn

[warrprayer]

94. thank you Fire Walk

and Occupy for all they do

[Tommy_Carcetti]

97. I'm trying not to be cynical here...

....but as a Floridian whose been through multiple hurricanes, I think the reaction of some New Yorkers is a little out of proportion.

Powers out, gas lines are long, trees are down. That's pretty much standard faire for most any region that's just been hit by a hurricane. It sucks, trust me, it sucks. But it will get better, sooner than you think.

You think though that New York was the first place to ever be hit by a hurricane, ever.

It's not New Orleans and Katrina. Not even close. Now that was exceptional circumstances.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. You know, here is where my big skeptic hat comes in

If you are not a resident of the area,or with a recognized NGO, or emergency response team, or credentialed media, you are simply not going to be allowed in. There is a simple reason for that, not that occupy is, LOOTERS...and lookie looks.

This is not the US mind you, this rule applies like everywhere...

Now they have been reporting on body recoveries and all that

I am sure they are doing work, even good work, but this is also from experience... If you are in the middle of a disaster area what you think it's not being reported, it actually is...

I am not going to crap on Occupy, but in this case I have more than a few professional reasons to doubt quite a bit of this, especially the they are not responding part, since they are...not as fast as some folks would prefer, but they are.

[HooptieWagon]

99. A DUer posted about listening to a police scanner on Staten Island.

Media do the same thing, to get a clue for breaking stories. DUer listened for 10 hours, said it was mostly domestic disputes. No people dropping dead in the street. No starvation. No coverup. I think the media probably has more important news to cover right now than a couple family members fighting over a twinkie. Just saying...

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. And we all know any report coming over the scanner

Has to be confirmed. If we alerted on every smoke check that goes over the radio, we'd have no time for anything else.

[Fire Walk With Me]

148. Citizen journalist Jenna Pope was there today and call what she witnessed, "Devastation".

[WinkyDink]

131. NO WAY would the MSM REFRAIN from Obama-bashing over "people...dying off"!

[randome]

132. Or at least Fox News.

[SidDithers]

140. Facebook is always the most accurate source of news...

that's where I learned that Jay Polk was killed in Syria.

Sid

[progressivebydesign]

144. RW talking point. People are not dying in Staten Island now.

Seriously... this is ridiculous.

And why does it make a difference that Ben Stiller is working a kitchen line? What does that have to do with anything?

Frankly, I'm just stunned at the people in America that think that a natural disaster that strikes the most populous part of the Country, as something that is going to be solved in 48 hours. Unrealistic to say the least.

Yeah. .people lose power in hurricanes. It happens. It sucks. There seems to be this push by some people to act as if the thousands of workers and volunteers helping right now, are not doing enough, as if they're sitting on their asses. This stuff TAKES TIME. It's not tv.

Most of the waterfront people in that area have 2nd homes somewhere else... and those that ignored evacuation warnings, have only themselves to blame. As for power.. wtf do people expect? You can only do so much. Not everything that sucks is a conspiracy. I've been without power for a week in an ice storm. It sucked. I had no furnace, no cooking, and could not leave the house. It's called DEALING WITH ADVERSITY. Not starting facebook pages to whine about it.

[Robb]

146. 1000s of ppl TwEeted they were KILLEd!!!11

[Myrina]

152. Gee, I thought by the urgency maybe Romney's tax returns washed up on shore ...

[Fire Walk With Me]

155. OP original text.

The media is not reporting what is actually happening in Staten Island right now.
LISTEN UP...The media is not reporting what is actually happening in Staten Island right now. Reports from citizens on the ground are that power will not be restored in parts of the island for AT LEAST A MONTH, people are dying all over the island....They need our help!!! -Occupy Binghamton

Info page:

http://www.facebook.com/RebuildStatenIsland 6,426 like this

There's plenty there including a photo of a shy Ben Stiller working in a kitchen line!

---

Edit: I do not have the time to respond to every disbelieving reply. Citizen channels have been active since during the storm and are still going strong with direct, personal reporting. From the first moment. If you do not want to believe it or if you are not interested, or do not believe that there are alternatives to mainstream media, or that those reporting from SI from since during the storm...sorry. Believe what you like. Gotta go back to Twitter and spend my time and energy there doing support work. Peace.

---

Update: I'm disabled. I do sit at the computer when I'm not resting/sleeping to attempt to collect my energy. The spreading of information among those actually on the ground, back and forth to those helping and interested in helping, is important, especially as the Red Cross and FEMA have taken a few days or more to get into areas already being worked upon by Occupy. Passing these informations to DU, where there is most obviously extremely little attention being given to such flows of information, is a way of attempting to get people involved in the recovery process via donations, direct volunteering, or even simply spreading the info among those who may wish to assist.

Number of people who went to the link in the OP or subsequent links provided by sabrina1 and other decent folks = 0. Shame on you.

As this has apparently brought out the uglier side of DU instead of the curious/altruistic side, I'm asking the Mods to please lock it.