Regarding tonight's "nuclear" news. I actually feel like a weight is being lifted off...

[LuckyCharms]

our collective minds.

Since 2015, seven fucking years, reasonable people have known that something was terribly, terribly wrong. We all had our guesses. some of us were right, some of us were maybe not so correct.

Two impeachments, constant gaslighting for seven years. January 6. Mass brainwashing.

That pit in our stomachs.

The sense that the United States has been ruined, irreparably harmed.

Our inability to make sense of anything.

It makes sense to me now.

I know it's still early in all of this, but I'll say it...he's a fucking spy.

And I also believe that critical information has already been distributed by tfg to dangerous actors. For money. Because everything tfg does is for money.

I can't grok the implications of all of this.

[SheltieLover]

1. Now they need to lock him up.

[LuckyCharms]

2. They will.

I've always believed that.

[SheltieLover]

4. I hope so.

It will be a first in my lifetime...

[Scrivener7]

3. I hate the fact that he has had this stuff, and no doubt has been hawking it, for a year

and a half.

[SheltieLover]

5. Me too! Why did they wait?

[Scrivener7]

9. I don't know.

[LuckyCharms]

13. I've had the occasion to work with highly classified material

for about 10 years, a few decades ago.

The processes and procedures required to even view this material are unbelievably rigorous. Security clearance is not enough. You must possess a "need to know".

To even view it.

But to actually take possession of it and cart it off to your home?

I can't even fathom how this happened.

[Scrivener7]

16. Do you have any insight into why they wouldn't just go get it back from him immediately?

Is there any way they could NOT have known that he was the last one to have it?

[LuckyCharms]

20. I don't, and that is what is bothering me.

Also, if the WAPO article is accurate, this issue is beyond "serious".

It this proves to be accurate, he needs to be isolated and guarded immediately.

[Scrivener7]

26. This is crazy on so many levels.

It was sitting in a room in the basement of his HOTEL!!! And their response last time they were down there was to ask them to put a padlock on the door. I cannot make sense of this.

[colorado_ufo]

78. I could see it this way:

There is the old saying, "Hiding in plain sight." Sometimes a safe is the first place someone looks for a valuable. Sticking them in an unsecured basement with other boxes and junk might be the last place a thief would look. (Remember where the Lost Ark wound up in "Indiana Jones?&quot If the agents discovered the docs, and they were refused possession, they would need to suggest something that would not precipitate the immediate destruction and/or sale of the documents, like simply requesting a padlock. That would hopefully help prevent accidental discovery by others until further action could be taken, such as the search with warrant.

[orthoclad]

37. The corruption is deep

and widespread. People like Flynn in positions of power, or connected.

[ancianita]

42. It's entirely reasonable to assume that the National Archives people were doing accounting of

materials, which takes a while. Then they had to track down where the disappeared stuff went. Then they had to go through the process of legally getting it back. And even then, trump only gave them what he wanted to, lying, saying that he'd given them everything when he had not. Then the leaks from who knows who. Then more tracking.

Nothing of this magnitude has ever happened, so it stands to reason that the detective and legal work was a first for every agency involved.

[Scrivener7]

46. Top secret materials. There should never be a need to "track down" top secret materials.

National Archives people shouldn't even be near nuclear top secret materials.

[ancianita]

57. You're missing the point. It's the National Archives that preserves ALL documents. It took TIME

to figure out what all was missing.
Michael Steele right now is explaining how much the rest of the White House staff didn't fight Trump when he gave orders. None of them ever stopped him.

This was ALL staff -- not just spies like Flynn or others -- just trying to do their job, help him do his job, while not losing their jobs.

trump slipped and slid through the hot mess he made of just being there; that everyone was so relieved to leave didn't help anyone notice, either, what he'd packed up to go to Florida.

Let's FIRST get the guy who created the ish.

Later the rest will follow as

1. aiders and abetters,

2. co-conspirators,

3. accessories after the fact

But that's a way off, too; after tfg gets indicted, then they get indicted. That's the order of it.

Right now we can emote and pick at all the enablers all we like, but we do still have to stay focused. The third largest country on the planet has a scale of problems no other country's encountered, and we'll get through it after we win in 2022.
Val Demings has been on O'Donnell tonight talking about how silent and complicit Rubio is.
We need to channel all this crap toward November, and we should do well.

[Scrivener7]

58. Top secret nuclear materials. Eighteen months. One would think it might have been the priority.

[ancianita]

60. Not when you work for that particular commander-in-chief.

No one could have known what he wanted saved but him. No one told what to do with materials even had clearance to see them. So why would you smoosh what we know now as if they knew it then. They didn't.

[Scrivener7]

61. Eighteen months.

[ancianita]

62. Okay. 12 months for the National Archives materials to get retrieved, then another 6 months for

what was retrieved yesterday.

Consider the scale of government or the work involved.
There was the transition period, new personnel from Biden, reportsreportsreports meetingsmeetings, and lots of all that to get back into regular order.



You got me on the math, okay. But are you driving at something else?

[Scrivener7]

64. I'm driving at the fact that our top secret nuclear materials were on walkabout for eighteen

months. When they should never have been allowed to leave secured rooms in the first place. When they should never touch the hands of National Archive employees. Or anyone else but the handful of people with appropriate clearances. And if they do, and if they go missing, it should not take eighteen months to find them. And if we knew where they were, we should not have left them in an unlocked room in the basement of a hotel.

You keep telling me what I am not thinking of. I think you're not thinking of the stakes involved in the loss of those documents. You're not thinking of the abject failure of every level of our national security apparatus that their loss represents, regardless of who was in office. You're not thinking of the danger we and our espionage community are in now because those documents have been in the wind for a year and a half.

If we knew the documents were missing when that crook left office - and we damn well ought to have known that - their retrieval should have been the first priority of every security entity in this country, and it shouldn't have taken eighteen months.

[ancianita]

86. The Division of National Security was looking for what tfg had in his possession while in the WH.

While he was prez, his intel possession was legal. It's his loading up 27 boxes of a mishmash of intel and records, and taking them to FL before Jan 20 that broke the federal records act even before he left office. I don't see how you know that the rest of the govt should have immediately known what he'd taken. That's what took time to find out.

Garland wasn't even sworn in until two months after Biden was sworn in. Without their leadership, two months went by while few to no one knew what he did while he had those 27 boxes. The National Archives does, indeed, hold classified records along with all other govt records. After this past January, and after NA had itemized contents and found what was missing, one could make a safe bet that the DOJ was probably getting legal forces ready to get the remaining 12 boxes back, something that's never had to be done in US history; and so they wanted to get this retrieval right, and time it such that they'd get everything with minimum legal and other resistance.

We can say it shouldn't have taken 18 months to get 27 boxes back, but we also don't know if the govt wasn't at work during at least 16 months to do just that. To transition, confirming a new cabinet who in turn have to orient personnel to new goals and operations, along with assessing damage done by previous trumper personnel, took more time.

Sure, 18 months has been a long time; I'm aghast at all the time he had to distribute them to his autocratic peers. Of course I'm thinking of the danger our espionage community are in, but that danger was, to begin with, in their giving him their intel while he was president. Sure, the stakes are high, and we'll likely find out how high by this afternoon.

So we are right to be outraged with shoulda/woulda/coulda, for what that's worth at this point. I'm trying to get over it but never forget. Hard lessons can be learned if this Congress, administration now take steps to harden controls on intel documents in the hands of any future president, along with the DOJ who must enforce all the laws broken since Jan 20 of last year.

[Scrivener7]

87. You're better at processing this than I am. I'm still back at "WTF?" and not yet at "getting

over it."

Also, I am stuck on the fact that NONE of this makes ANY sense at all. The completely absurd timeline, how those papers ever got out of safe rooms in the first place, regardless of who was president, given the security protocols in place for top secret nuclear material that NO ONE is allowed to circumvent. There's a lot of talk about "well, he forced them." The way the rules work, he couldn't force them. So how DID he force them?

None of this makes sense.

[ancianita]

88. I hear you. We can't get over it until the DOJ acts.

He forced them as commander-in-chief and they were forceable. I can't guess how it would have been any different UNLESS goody two shoes Cipollone had stepped up. Which he didn't. He's the one who pisses me off the most.

[LudwigPastorius]

48. Why wouldn't they just get it back from him immediately?

Last edited Fri Aug 12, 2022, 12:40 AM - Edit history (2)

If the documents weren't real secrets, and if this was a CIA sting...

Ever since Trump gave that self-aggrandizing speech in front of the agency Memorial Wall, they haven't liked him very much, and they will play the long game on you.

s

[royable]

44. Try five years and a half.

The grift stands on grift and is held up by grift. It's grift all the way down.

[The Unmitigated Gall]

6. Remembering Sergey Lavrov's toothy grin in the Oval Office.

Like a shark with a belly full of seal pups.

[onecaliberal]

23. 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

[Ponietz]

40. The listless stumbling abject servitude at Helsinki made me cry for my country

[colorado_ufo]

75. Blackmail is a terrible burden to carry.

"Get me this, get me that, or . . ."

[The Unmitigated Gall]

76. There's been no greater humiliation

Except maybe that dirtbag traitor who carried a confederate flag through the Capitol. No, that was heinous but not on the level of Helsinki.

[Johnny2X2X]

7. I feel extremely anxious

This is awful and our country is about to go through something traumatic.

[cilla4progress]

11. There are more of us

than them, remember.

[Generic Brad]

17. It will be traumatic for Republicans

For us - vindication and relief.

[Johnny2X2X]

21. There will be civil unrest.

Trump is going to prison. There are supporters of his who are going to kill people over it.

[Generic Brad]

28. They did civil unrest when Trump was free

And people died.

There is no appeasing bullying fascist cult members. I hope they wallow in their trauma and suffer bigly.

[Johnny2X2X]

32. Not like we're about to see

As horrific as what Trump has done is. Hailing him off to jail is going to send millions of Americans into a violent frenzy.

As much as we all want to see Trump hauled off in handcuffs, this is going to have to be handled delicately. When the indictment is made, members of Congress are going to have to be shown the evidence so we can get Republicans to calm people down.

[orthoclad]

41. 20,000,000 US assault rifles

per Forbes:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/03/25/us-has-at-least-20-million-assault-rifles-a-ban-wouldnt-reduce-that-number/?sh=e07d4844978a

They won't go for frontal assault against tanks and aircraft. I don't know what they will do.

I'll try to go back and correct my digits in some other posts.

[Straw Man]

69. Not all of those ...

... are in the hands of MAGATS.

[orthoclad]

91. Very true

There are, for instance, groups like the John Brown Gun Club.
But most lefties really don't like violence. The Reich wing is fueled by rage addiction.

[cilla4progress]

8. I'm

getting drunk.

[MontanaMama]

51. Me too sister.

[scipan]

54. A rational response. Nt

[Bev54]

10. Funny I feel the opposite, like a huge anvil is hanging over our heads.

[ancianita]

47. Me, too. This is just the beginning of ferreting out which foreign entities got our state secrets

and what moves they'll make to use them against us. The foreign ramifications of this are perhaps worse than the domestic issues.

This man and his zombies we can deal with. But a foreign adversary hitting us after all this exhaustive cleanup?
I'm dreading the fallout.

[ecstatic]

12. It'll be interesting to see if tfg still has supporters come tomorrow.

I mean, it *has* to be sinking in by now that tfg truly doesn't give a fuck about any of us or our safety. They have to know that by now. A man who literally tried to overthrow the US government, and they still kept fucking with him. Now it might FINALLY be sinking in that there's truly no bottom for tfg.

[durablend]

15. Same amount as today

Tomorrow they'll have another "Whaddabout" excuse

[Johnny2X2X]

19. If nuclear info was recovered

If they prove it, he will lose half his supporters.

[durablend]

24. Not. a. chance.

They'll just say whatever's on Hunter Biden's laptop is a thousand times worse.

[Straw Man]

72. No.

They'll just say whatever's on Hunter Biden's laptop is a thousand times worse.

Or they'll just scream "Fake news!"

[Meadowoak]

18. I doubt it, most, if not all, are REALLY fucking dense.

[orthoclad]

50. It's not about "dense", I think

It's about rage, and fear, and the lust to dominate and destroy.

They feel cheated -- and they have been, by the oligarchs who have sequestered the wealth. But they have a propaganda machine telling them it's the blacks and the gays and the browns and the commies. Divide and conquer works.

Rage seems to have a built-in postive feedback loop. A YUUUUGE reservoir of energy to tap.

And yes, many are dense. The ruling class has been dumbing us down for decades.

[area51]

55. +1 n/t

[newdayneeded]

89. I've got a trump "in law"

from out of state. he comes here and wears his trump hat, shirt, and Jammie pants for all 4 days. never changes them. The dumbest fucking guy I'd ever met.

[Meadowoak]

90. I have a cousin in FL, has stage 4 cancer, has no health insurance and

Constantly rails about how nobody should get free healthcare.

[dalton99a]

14. Traitor, spy, saboteur.

[EnergizedLib]

22. I feel no relief

I think we’ve all been vindicated knowing he was bad news.

But he’s a permanent stain on this country, one that isn’t shrinking.

[uppityperson]

25. I broke up laughing when I heard. It's not funny at all but of course he did.

[Hekate]

35. Pretty much the same reaction here, at least from me. "Of course he did."

Needs to be strung up by the heels like Mussolini. He and his enablers have effed this nation so bad, and the party ain’t over yet.

[Meowmee]

27. I hope if he was somehow given very sensitive info

It was fake. I am not sure what to think about all of it. Time will tell.

[Solly Mack]

29. My first thought upon learning about possible nuclear documents?

"And that fucker is still alive?"

[LuckyCharms]

30. If this proves out...

that means he actually did the worst thing possible.

No pee pee tapes, no quid pro quo, but rather, the selling of nuclear secrets to foreign adversaries.

Can't wait to see how the right-wingers are going to spin this one.

[Solly Mack]

33. I'm not shocked he would but it's like reading a spy novel with an unbelievable plot.

Supposedly there are redundant safeguards in place to prevent this kind of thing by an American president.

But at that level we put down too much to trust of the office/officeholder. (I think anyway)

Far too much benefit of the doubt given to a president. Far too much indulgence.

[LuckyCharms]

34. I think a lot of this was caused by the people he surrounded himself with.

The people on his staff.

Regulations were simply ignored. And no one stopped him, because he populated his cabinet and staff with people who he knew would not stop him.

If no one stops you, you can literally do whatever you want to.

[Solly Mack]

36. That certainly helped in his crimes.

It was intended as such. So you know he's not the only guilty party.

[AllyCat]

84. First thing I thought. No peepee tapes. Just money.

All that MFer has EVER cared about is money.

[Ocelot II]

31. I'm horrified but not really surprised.

It reminds me of Watergate (though this is much worse) in the sense that most of us felt all along that Nixon was behind the coverup, and when it was finally proved, we went “Yup, of course he did.”

[dchill]

38. I'm gonna need every Republican in Congress...

...to tell us what the fuck they were thinking. Smells like mass treason to me.

[LuckyCharms]

39. +1

[LudwigPastorius]

43. Consider that the CIA stopped giving Trump intelligence after January 6th.

And, President Biden cut off Trump from the intelligence briefings that are traditionally given to former presidents.

But, Trump's not just going to walk away from the White House without some chips he can cash in.

I think there is a less than zero chance that the CIA knew Trump would try this, and that they planted phony intel for Trump to steal, then put an officer next to him posing as someone in his protection detail.

In the best case scenario, Trump has been caught red handed committing espionage without giving up any actual secrets.

[oldtime dfl_er]

79. I had this thought also

and it soothes me

[moonscape]

80. Just as I'm wondering how I'll

fall asleep tonight, you give me the answer. Thank you. For tonight at least, I will choose to believe this rosiest of scenarios.

[AllyCat]

85. I hope this is what happened. At least at the end.

I think at the beginning, that f*cker Lavrov got what his heart truly desired.

[rubbersole]

45. "It's going to blow the roof off of the house."

[czarjak]

49. "Russia's a ruse"? Everybody knew that!

[Grammy23]

52. The bombshell went off today.

Now let’s see how long it takes to do anything about it. I won’t hold my breath, but by rights, he should be arrested and charged with every crime they know he committed. I’m willing to bet they have the goods on him. But whether things play out as they should remains to be seen. Nothing that is the normal outcome for things like this seem to happen to trump. We deserve to know why.

[Corgigal]

53. Greed.

It’s what going to wipe us all out one day, and some individually.

Trump, I knew as a former NYer, was going to steal this country blind for the first 4 years, Then he will steal us, the citizens blind the next 4. He never believed he would leave the White House after his re-election. Dodged a bullet, and how..

Not worried about GOP nut jobs, they already shoot people at schools, Walmarts, grocery stores, churches and on and on. My chances are about the same.

[proud patriot]

56. FYI Randi Rhodes caled this on Tuesday

she's so friggin smart .

[SouthernDem4ever]

73. Love Randi but I have been saying it since before trump was elected

his cozying up to Putin made it blatantly obvious. I never thought I would see an American political party allow this within their own ranks. It was clear to me then and reinforced by the first impeachment over the issue in Ukraine that the republican party was against the security of their own country.

[Hamlette]

59. if he opens a hotel in Moscow that would erase all doubt.

[ColinC]

63. Think he might get the same treatment as Robert Hansen?

[DENVERPOPS]

65. WELL SAID..............

The Republicans enabled the Frankenstein's Monster they created and he went off the rails...........

Now the U.S. and the entire world will suffer forevermore........

These Republicans don't care a whit about their children or grand children, only about themselves maintaining power and their Money sources............

Fuck every Republican Politician and Every Republican Voter.........

[Lucky Luciano]

66. Can he be executed then? If he sold nuclear secrets, perhaps he can!

[LudwigPastorius]

71. Don't make him a MAGA martyr.

Life with no parole in a Supermax prison will do nicely.

[TheBeam19]

67. Agreed. He's a spy.

That’s a word I never used all throughout the Russia investigation. I always thought he was beholden to the Russians for money, business deals, things like that, but now I believe the situation is worse. He’s a damn spy.

[colorado_ufo]

83. Nah. I always smelled a rat,

especially after the unannounced meeting in the Oval with the Russian ambassador and Lavrov right after he was elected, with nothing but Russian press allowed. The only way we found out about it was from the Russian press! The only pictures were from them!

I saw video clips of Russians, in Russia, cheering wildly after it was announced that he won the election.

[lambchopp59]

68. I'm having such Deja Vu right now...

[tishaLA]

70. He'd do it just to hurt Pres Biden, too

I'm sure he'd want $$$$ I'm return, but if he could sell nuclear secrets to someone--pretty much anymore --as a way of hampering Pres Biden 's foreign policy, it'd be the perfect revenge he's been seeking for his election defeat.

[niyad]

74. We've known for years that the F'n, murdering, orange TRAITOR** has been a

russian asset for years, going back to the 80's, at least. So, looking like he moved from asset to spy is not a real shocker. Disgusting. Disgraceful. Traitorous. But no real surprise.

[oldtime dfl_er]

77. Is it possible...

that something, I don't know what, but something, happened at the golf tournament this last weekend, where the Saudis all came in? Is it possible the feds were waiting to actually catch him in the act, and maybe they finally did? I would love it if there were tapes of him literally turning over documents and receiving bags of cash.

[0rganism]

81. it's amazing we're still a country after 4 years of Agent Orange

This nation has been compromised at the highest levels.

[Kablooie]

82. I'm sorry but history has shown there is never a satisfying comeuppance.

In the past two decades I don’t think real consequences have ever occurred.
It just doesn’t happen to these guys and i don’t expect this to be any different.
Wish I could be more optimistic but I’ve been let down too many times.

[Skittles]

92. Russia helped to install Trump into the White House

there was a REASON for that