What I don't understand is how anyone can think

[PCIntern]

that he did not immediately sell the contents of the most important papers. One can perform this task easily and surreptitiously with a smartphone and internet service by turning off the WiFi and sending it to wherever. He kept the hard copies for further sales to other entities who “crave the stuff”. (If you can tell me where that phrase is from I’ll be beyond amazed)

This is all beyond frightening. But no surprise and no shock.

[Walleye]

1. My thoughts exactly, the FBI took all that was left that we know of

I wonder if the Trump family was communicating with each other by phone while they were watching the search on surveillance cameras. I would really love to hear what they were saying

[Ferrets are Cool]

2. The media is being extremely careful not to throw around the "treason" word, but

in my lil pea brain, it's clear that he has committed the crime. Of course, I am not impartial.

[CincyDem]

6. Because technically, it's not treason

Treason is a crime committed during declared wartime. We’re not at war.

It is espionage, which is being openly discussed…that’s one of the big ones during non-wartime. The other one that gets tossed around is sedition…working against the country’s best interests during non-wartime.

[Wounded Bear]

20. Mar-a-lago is espionage, 1/6 is sedition...

Espionage is about mishandling documents and other intel.

Sedition is undermining and attacking the government and its institutions.

[brush]

23. Right, espionage seems to be most apparent with the docs...

being stolen from the WH. And the J6 insurrection was certainly sedition. But wouldn't selling government nuclear secrets and the names and payroll info of intelligent operatives be considered both espionage and treason, even though we're not at war?

[CincyDem]

28. IMHO...conceptually it's what we think of as treason but...not technically. n/t

[Brainfodder]

44. It has that 100x Treasony death penalty level feel though eh?

All for bucks without any fucks on what the consequences are, yeah that sounds like someone to be held as a flight risk if I have ever heard of one?

I am done with our supposedly archaic laws excuses too.



Part of me thinks climate change is end game and these jackasses did this bad acting/grift all for nothing!

Meanwhile, should be orgy at 11 same place as usual and ignore all this gross shit?

[EndlessWire]

46. Some forms of espionage are treason

subjecting him to a wide range of punishments, including execution.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

42. Neither the Constitution nor the U.S. Code mention war in defining treason and its punishment.

U.S. Constitution:

Article III, Section 3.
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.

U.S. Code:

18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

[CincyDem]

43. I always read that section to mean, in effect, "applicable only in levying war" as during wartime.

...I'm sure smarter minds than mine will sort it out if it's applicable.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

45. I've seen it debated by people who should know, so it's not just you and I.

[CincyDem]

47. Hmmm.... I thought debate was between two people knowledgeable in a subject.

I know at least one of us doesn’t know chit…

…yeah, I’m look at you there in the mirror CincyDem.

Lol

[Mr. Ected]

3. The scary thing is, we may all get our wish and see him put behind bars for a long, long time

But if he sold nuclear secrets to an enemy, we are ALL in deep peril.

[Claustrum]

4. Remember, there were news report back in 2015 and 2016 that TFG

has secret channels (forgot the right term for this) connecting to Russia.

[gab13by13]

11. Yeah, OK,

the server from Trump Tower connected to Putin's Alfa Bank.

The Magats have flipped that on its head. Barr appointed John Durham to investigate who was behind such an untrue conspiracy. (sarcasm) Durham is still on the payroll. Instead of investigating the Trump Tower server they are investigating the whistleblowers.

[niyad]

13. Back channel.

[milestogo]

5. TFG doesn't have the skills to send documents via email since all he knows is Twitter

But he has plenty of others who would help him.

I hope the investigation is following the money.

[bucolic_frolic]

7. It would be suprising to me if they weren't keeping an eye on him the whole time

so I think such shenanigans would have been detected

[EnergizedLib]

8. Intent matters, too, no?

Rod Blagojevich tried selling President Obama’s senate seat and that was what did him in. He didn’t succeed, but just intent and trying to is cause for consequences.

[Wounded Bear]

21. It's still conspiracy, even if they don't execute the plan to commit the crime...nt

[vlyons]

9. Of course he was going to sell docs

Probably going to sell a doc to more than one customer. Photocopy, put in a folder, and hand it over. He had people going in and out of MAL all the time.

How long before the DOJ incites his sorry ass?

[njhoneybadger]

10. Did Jared have access because it looks like he's the beneficiary.

[Scrivener7]

16. Buddy the gardener and Mildred the towel lady had access. Of course Jared did too.

[gab13by13]

12. Trump had 19 months to sell classified information.

Why would he wait?

When the National Archives became aware of the theft of documents, DOJ didn't even take the case, it left it to the National Archives.

[Scrivener7]

15. The other question: how are we even using the phrase, "when the National Archives became aware"

given the security protocols that SHOULD BE in place around those documents and the dozens charged with maintaining those protocols?

How were the National Archive and the DOJ ever UNAWARE?

This story simply does not add up.

[Ponietz]

14. Fingers crossed he was set up

The spooks and detectives know far more than I do. We saw perfidy in real time in 2017 and John Kelly swallowed so much gall he looked ill. They had a long time to set him up. Clapper, Brennan, all the stalwarts, were unequivocal in sounding the alarm. They’re still the best, fingers crossed.

I think any one of us could set the guy up if we were within his orbit.

[Scrivener7]

17. It's the only thing that makes the story make sense.

Either that or all of our national security departments are totally incompetent.

[brush]

19. Are you saying trump was set up?

[Wounded Bear]

22. Meh, trump set himself up...nt

[brush]

24. Post 14 seems to be saying that. I of course disagree...

as we all know trump is, and has been, a stone, cold grifting crook, but Ponietz seems to saying trump was set up.

I was trying to see what his/her reasoning is for posting something so at odds with what we know about how trump has operated all his crooked life.

[Wounded Bear]

26. I think of it as more "Deep State" bullshit to make trump look like a martyr...

trump is a crook. He's always been a crook. I suspect that everything in his whole life down to his high school grades was a sham and a scam.

This sounds like the usual "Woe is me, they all hate me. Look what they've done to me." Typical whiny crap that trump is known for throughout his life and in everything he does. It's how he always reacts, because, of course, nothing is ever his fault.

[brush]

27. We're on the same page but I'd like to hear why...

Ponietz would post such a thing as trump being set up on DU.

I doubt anyone here agrees with that.

[Ponietz]

29. Please

Set up as in honeypot, a sting operation, My post was meant to convey I hope this turns out to be. Can’t imagine a better way to restore belief in justice and the rule of law.

[brush]

32. Be clear. Are you saying the ones who helped him...

smuggle the docs out of the WH and surreptitiously ship them down to Florida are the ones who set him up?

[Ponietz]

33. I doubt that but almost anything seems possible here

[brush]

34. So pls explain how you think trump was set up.

[Ponietz]

36. No thanks

Speculation time is over.

[brush]

37. So you just say he's set up for the hell of it with no...

theory even of how it was done? Sounds almost like an argument sympathetic towards trump...i.e., he was set up so he's not to blame for the theft of government secrets.

[Ponietz]

39. I'm very wary of hypothetical facts

Okay, for instance, someone in the WH knows he intends to take classified docs upon vacating and alerts the FBI. I understand their counter-espionage unit is involved here. I don’t think they’ll pull a Barney Fife a second time like Comey did. Looks like they waited for his move and pounced.

If I argue the opposite, that once again the FBI showed up late, then I say law enforcement is utterly incompetent, national security is an oxymoron, and undermine Garland.

I’ll believe they knew what they were about during the period until Biden’s inauguration.

[Wounded Bear]

30. "Keeping an eye on him" and "setting him up" are two different things...

Perhaps Ponietz is conflating the two. Big difference between due diligence and entrapment.

[Ponietz]

40. Yes

But set up as in ‘sting operation’, and due diligence certainly demanded this. There is no issue of entrapment. Thanks for clarifying.

[brush]

18. From what I understand, trump doesn't do email...

and is not at all tech savvy. Cell phones are about as far as can go so there was no scanning and uploading and sending docs over the internet...at least by him.

Granted there of course were others involved in smuggling the docs out of the WH and down to Florida and that needs to be investigated, but what it looks like is trump just had the boxes of docs dumped in his basement and hadn't got around to grifting off of them yet.

He didn't even put them under lock and key, and we all know how lazy and adverse to reading he is. Of course Kushner may well have visited the basement and used some info he found there. Hope we find out.

[tinrobot]

25. As soon as the documents are digitized, their value evaporates.

Once a digital copy is transmitted, it can be re-transmitted and disseminated very quickly. You immediately lose control of the information and it soon becomes worthless.

If he only kept hard copies, the information would be worth more. He could charge admission fees to look at the physical documents.

He's probably too dumb to understand cybersecurity, but he does know how to extort money.

[Maraya1969]

31. Maybe he was waiting until he decided to run for president again. Because if he ran and won he

would have a problem with missing documents.

[sarcasmo]

35. Exactly. No way a grifter sat on those documents for 18 months.

[BannonsLiver]

38. Have seen a few "nothingburger" threads today.

So apparently there are some among us who don’t think it’s a big deal. On the other hand, it balances some of the victory dance threads.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217038738

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217038376

[LuckyCharms]

41. Agree. That info has already been disbursed. n/t