What if the only way to save America from the Fascists was a Conservative/Liberal coalition...?

[kentuck]

...of conservative Republicans and liberal Democrats, would you accept that?

What if the Democrats cannot defeat this fascist movement by themselves and the conservative Republicans that remain are far out-numbered by the fascists?

What if this was the only way to save the country from the fascists, what would you do? Would you hold dearly to present position?

Because this may be the only way to defeat this movement? I know this is unthinkable for most people here, although I think much more acceptable to most Americans.

This is just my opinion but I believe we should begin to use our heads for something other than a hatrack.

What if the only way to defeat this fascist movement is for Americans, Democrats and Republicans and Independents to unite as an opposing movement. It would not be easily accomplished but it may be the last hope for our democracy?

We will know much more after the mid-term elections in November.

[Elessar Zappa]

1. Yes, I believe it's come to that.

[William769]

2. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. nt

[Marcus IM]

3. Then it's a GOP mission accomplished.

The new middle is the old right.

[kentuck]

5. No, it is the Fascist mission accomplished.

Unless you think it is not possible? Or you think it is preferable?

[Marcus IM]

11. I'm not sure I understand your point.

What is it that I might think impossible/preferable?

[kentuck]

16. Perhaps I misunderstood your "GOP mission accomplished"?

If the present GOP wins, then it is Fascist mission accomplished.

[Marcus IM]

19. OK. Got it.

So we should compromise with said fascists? Meet them halfway?

[kentuck]

25. No. We should work with those Republicans that oppose the present fascists.

Do you not see the difference?

[Marcus IM]

27. Yes. I do.

As I said originally, the new middle is the old right.

Cheers.

[GoodRaisin]

37. Well, that was an interesting conversation.

[Hortensis]

4. Moderate mainstream alliances kept this nation stable and prosperous

through most of the 20th Century, and a very important function they performed was to keep extremists on right and left in check. As President Obama said, the center has broken. And the extremists are storming the gates.

You bet I'd "accept" allying into the majority that can once again save our nation. All other issues are secondary to survival of our government of, by and for the people.

We either repair ourselves by reuniting or divided we finish falling and being taken over by RW extremists.

[kentuck]

7. I think it is an option we should seriously consider after the midterm election.

If the Fascist take over the House and Senate (present Republicans) then the only option to save the democracy is to elect a President to counter them. It may take a coalition to accomplish that?

[Hortensis]

13. Remember, Biden hoped to be that coalition builder, succeeded somewhat,

and still can be. He entered the 2020 election well liked by people across the spectrum who felt they "knew" him.

Hillary attempted the same; she was a moderate liberal who offered practical, needed issue positions that would appeal to a broad range of voters. Hard to believe now, but her approval ratings were in the 70%s when she was a senator and SecState, and she was the most admired woman on the planet. Character assassinations during the presidential elections took care of that.

It seems the voters' choice in 2024 will be democracy-saver Biden or his replacement versus tRump or his just-as-scary wannabe fascist replacement. So, enlarging our already broad coalition to include more moderate conservatives is what we will be attempting again. No accident. It has to be.

And after all, in democracies, majorities are always coalitions of different interest groups. Nothing strange there.

[LeftInTX]

18. Exactly, that's what we learned in school..compromise, compromise, compromise

Somewhere, it all got lost

[BlueIdaho]

20. It takes a village...

That village must include moderates from both sides working together to protect the rights of all citizens and reject the hate filled rhetoric of the fire bombing fascists that look to destroy our constitution and our communities.

[empedocles]

21. Agree. We need to actually understand our present precarious position,

righteous positions aside, and do what it takes to have a chance to win, and even win big in November.

[inthewind21]

45. I lost faith

in the citizens ability to "understand" long ago. No one saw this coming right? Even know it's been broadcast in our faces for decades. There is no more WE. It's seems it's all ME now. And time is running out fast. The hounds are at the gates at the last hinge is about to give. I know, it's depressing. But we all did just watch Trump get elected legitimately in 2016, run amok with zero consequence and he's STILL calling the shots and managing to get more and more of his fellow loons in positions of power. And he couldn't do it without the help of the American Citizen. So yeah, that's pretty fucking depressing.

[msfiddlestix]

49. Punctuated the point quite well, I've been thinking along these lines as well.

Coming from me, that's saying a hell of a lot in terms of what my political inclinations have been for all of my entire adult life.

I'm almost 72 years old, and have been through every struggle progressives have faced since the 60's.

Every election seemed to pull further and further to the Right, The so called "silent majority" morphed into the "moral majority" with religious bullshit. etc etc etc.

Where we are now is fraught with uncertainty, and fascists extremism at the same time.

[Polybius]

6. Suppose they're anti-choice and anti-gay?

How could we vote for that?

[kentuck]

9. They have to have the numbers...

Being anti-gay or anti-choice does not mean they can pass those positions thru the Congress.

[msfiddlestix]

50. Those are battles that will continue. But at least it will be a fair fight.

potentially. not possible with GQP/White Christo Fascists holding full court and power.

[LakeArenal]

8. I think it called compromise. Something Republicans refuse.

[Marcus IM]

12. Yep. And doesn't that push compromise/middle to the right? n/t

[LakeArenal]

23. If Republicans would eork for what the majority want we could get somewhere.

But not even Liz Cheney does that.

[RockRaven]

10. If conservatives want to get on board with our attempts to squash fascists, fine with me.

They are certainly welcome to join in that particular endeavor, as far as it goes.

But expecting us to hitch up to their train in order to accomplish the same is a losing proposition. If the terms of their cooperation is "our way or bust" then it's bust, because a fight against fascism on those terms is fruitless.

Conservatives being in charge is how we got to this point where fascism is a real threat. Their policies, their decisions, their rhetoric created this moment. So they have to let go of the idea of being in the driver's seat, because they drove us into this fucking ditch that we're trying to get out of.

[Marcus IM]

15. The general consensus seem to be that the GOP will not compromise.

How long have they been saying that compromise is giving up their agenda?

[Groundhawg]

14. shudder

[Wounded Bear]

17. Find me some rational, true conservatives and I'll work with them...nt

[JHB]

22. Just which "conservatives" are you talking about?

Considering that the fascists have been labeling themselves as "conservative" for over 50 years with the full and enthusiastic support of the people who now paint themselves as "the real conservatives". Not to mention that supporting dictators and banana republics has been a conservative hallmark since..., well, conservatism existed.

[Zambero]

24. A legitimate representative democracy comes first

From that platform, liberals and conservatives can debate issues and let voters decide who represents them. Once Trumpism collapses (and it will) from its own dead corrupted weight, those Republicans who favor a return to norms and have respect for long-standing American institutions can join with Democrats to make certain that this episode never happens again. Neo-fascist hangers-on, religious zealots, and other extreme elements will always remain, as will their violent rhetoric. As such, it will likely require cooperation across the aisle to preclude future attempts to destroy democracy.

[mercuryblues]

26. IMO if you are still voting republican at this point

You are a fascist.

[Celerity]

28. Never, as it would be an auto-default to more RW bullshit, minus the crazy cultural dross

The banksters, multinational mega firms, and the oligarchs would be nuclear-powered to run riot.

[stopdiggin]

29. I haven't the foggiest idea how one would go about

distinguishing a 'fascist' Republican (or a fascist liberal for that matter) - from a non-fascist one.

I have no trouble at all (theoretically) reaching across the aisle in an effort to save our democratic institutions. But - does somebody who believes that the 2020 election was 'stolen' qualify as an ally? And, does someone who believes in anti-choice legislation, or strict voting regulation - and/or "stop the steal" - qualify as a 'fascist?"

And if I have trouble finding that line - consider the problem a 'former Republican' is going to have in drawing that distinction.

[Bettie]

30. Conservative Republicans would

simply say "give us what we want, 100% of what we want and we MIGHT help you out".

And we'd be in a slightly less crazy authoritarian state than if the true nutjobs take over.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. The rule of law. The sanctity of the ballot. Majority rule/minority rights

Pluralism. Anybody who follows those is my ally. Anybody with the emphasis on anybody who opposes them is my enemy.

[choie]

32. Like who?

Name twenty.

[Iggo]

34. Or fifty.

‘Cause it’s gonna take a bunch.

I got two, and I can’t stand either one.

[tinrobot]

33. We allied with Stalin in WWII to defeat fascists

It helped win that war, but the aftermath caused a 50 year cold war.

Not sure. Seems like a deal with the devil to me. There will be consequences.

[Yavin4]

35. Umm. Where are these "conservatives" that oppose this Fascist movement?

Every conservative, with the exception of a few, whole heartedly support Trump, and even those that don't support him, like his policy agenda, just not his antics or how he presents himself.

Conservatives are embracing this drift, so your point is pretty moot.

[Ron Green]

36. The Conservative/Liberal framework is false and harmful.

For public policy in this country to be reduced to a left/right, or any binary, system just so lazy media can fan the flames of a ball game (I won’t even call it a “horse race” because then we’d have more than a two-party choice), essentially ensures failed states and planetary degradation while people at all levels of responsibility scream at each other.

The coalition you propose is funded by the same big money.

[GoodRaisin]

38. Isn't that what it really comes down to?

A binary choice between fascism and democracy. Democrats are clearly the democracy candidate. Any other vote is a vote for fascism now that the majority of Republicans have moved so far right.

[Mister Ed]

39. I'll make common cause with anyone who wants to preserve and defend democracy.

Then, I'll battle them at the ballot box. That's the way it should be.

[UCmeNdc]

40. Well, the conservative Republicans need to vote for all of the Democratic candidates in 2022.

They need to vote for the Democratic party candidates and save the United States.

[brooklynite]

41. Consider that Bibi Netanyahu was defeated by a coalition who's sole purpose was to defeat him

It then fell apart.

[eShirl]

42. how can they be trusted after all they've done?

[kentuck]

44. The question that will be asked?

Why didn't the American people unite against the fascists?

Like I say, we will know more after the November elections. The goal should be to keep Trump and his supporters out of power, not everybody who disagrees with Democrats, in my opinion.

[inthewind21]

47. Exactly

[karynnj]

46. They share too few values to put an agenda acceptable to both

Even if you consider a ticket that is primarily Democratic and liberal, what if anything, would you give to the conservatives? Remember that Kerry and McCain considered the idea, even though they had respect for each other and worked together on veterans rights, it was rejected by both because McCain would not become a Democrat and they disagreed on too many big issues.

The parties are further apart now and more polarized. The only thing that works is if sane conservatives vote for Democrats at least for top positions or at minimum not vote for Republicans.

[inthewind21]

48. That's

a fantasy. They (Republicans) can say the same. And it's a my way or no way approach. Which is exactly how we got here to begin with. And when you do what you always do, you get what you always get.

[karynnj]

51. As I stated BOTH Kerry and McCain rejected the idea as unworkable

Here, you seem to ask the Democratic party to go beyond even the centrist positions needed to get 50 Democrats and no Republicans. It is likely that the parties both are always close to the same size in terms of very committed partisans. What changes is motivation to vote and where the non aligned go.

Now consider the 2 pieces you want to combine. The Democrats alone have a good chance of winning. The conservative non Trump people might be at most 20 percent of all Republicans, which may be generous.

What does the presumably Democratic Presidential nominee have to promise to lead a liberal/conservative coalition? No improved social programs like childcare, improvement of ACA, ... No proposed tax increases for corporations or the top 1 percent? The president will not push Congress to codify things like Roe v Wade or LGBT rights? With the current polarization, there are huge areas with no viable overlap.

Now, consider what percent of liberals we lose because we have disheartened are key voters.