Regarding a civil war: white Supremists don't have

[leftyladyfrommo]

any kind of a general organization. The different groups don't communicate much with each other. Within the groups it's every man for himself. They own their own guns and store their own ammo at home. Each member's home is their center of operation. No central supply operation. No government to organize operations and get supplies. No way to get around except their own trucks.

They can pull off attacks but could never get it together to run a civil war.

I just read this. I hadn't really thought about what it would take to run a civil war. I guess what they have is more of a guerrilla thing. And their are probably undercover govt. agents in all those groups.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

1. The most important ingredient for a successful Civil War

is to have the population on your side, without it, it's doomed to fail and while there may be pockets of americans who support these MAGAt's, the vast majority of Americans will not and won't hesitate to rat them out to law enforcement, and like you said, most of these MAGAt groups are infiltrated by LE.

[Wounded Bear]

5. While true in principle, remember the American Revolution only had 30% support...

The traditional American split has never really been 50/50, it has been 30/30/30 with 1/3 of the populace in each of the two "sides" and 30% wanting to basically be left alone.

Presidential elections these days seem to be routinely decided by a plurality of the voting eligible populace, 2020 being a bit of an exception. 30-40% of the population can create a lot of problems and swing our politics a lot.

That's why we need to continue the 2018-20 blue wave through this and future elections.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

9. Of that 30-40% of the population,

how many do you really think are going to actually take up arms against the Govt?
How many will go toe to toe with heavily armed FBI HRT, the NG, SWAT teams?
Dressing up like soldiers and marching or playing war games is far different from actual combat, something the majority have never had the "pleasure" of experiencing, first round fired at them would send most running back to mama's basement.

Plus, once there are disruptions to the supply chain, most Americans won't tolerate that, we're too used to our creature comforts.

[Wounded Bear]

13. I agree. Most of that 35% is "passive support" that may vote, but won't hit the streets...

So far, at least. Crowd sizes at rallies is not a great measure of true support, especially for shit like real combat and terrorist operations.

I don't really fear a "civil war" in an active sense, but there probably will be a lot of lone wolf shit like the guy who attacked the FBI office in Ohio.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

14. +100.

I don't really fear a "civil war" in an active sense, but there probably will be a lot of lone wolf shit like the guy who attacked the FBI office in Ohio.

I agree, and when the images of murdered LE, bombings, etc start being shown around the country, that passive support is going to further erode.

[Wounded Bear]

15. Hopefully so...

but they went from decrying "defund the police" to "defund the FBI" in a few short months.

I suppose the whole "I hate the federal guv'mt" movement backs that, but it does seem a bit hypocritical to a rational person.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

16. LOL,

Key words, rational person, which we know these MAGAt's are not.

Have a great weekend.

[stopdiggin]

27. exactly so.

there are a lot of people that are NOT on board - when it comes to attacking cops and military (and, to a somewhat lesser degree, elected officials). And when these things start playing out on the 6 o'clock news ... Lotta' tunes will be changing.

Having said that - can't tell you how disappointed I was with what went down with the Bundys, and the Malheur Wildlife Refuge thing. Big mistake (in retrospect).

[MarineCombatEngineer]

28. ....

Having said that - can't tell you how disappointed I was with what went down with the Bundys, and the Malheur Wildlife Refuge thing. Big mistake (in retrospect).

It was huge mistake, maybe if the Govt has hammered them, we wouldn't be having these MAGAt's attempting to overthrow our duly elected Govt.

[stopdiggin]

33. yep. hindsight of course

And I can see the argument for avoiding a splashy firefight (along with dead bodies and martyrs). But - after the fact - heavy consequences for every single person that participated. "Children - Dad won't be coming to your soccer games for the next little while .. "

Probably something that we'll be looking back on - and debating - 40 years from now. But, I'm with you - I think we'd be seeing a lot less of the crapola we are today ...

[2naSalit]

24. +1

[haele]

37. What eventually tilted more support for the American revolution was -

- the British habit of quartering their soldiers in local taverns and civilian houses.
The revolutionaries tended to camp out, not commendeering small farming communities, messing with daughters and scrounging through a householder's personal larders and cellars.
Also, sadly as to the American view of society, the British tactic of offering freedom to slaves for information or to support the British army. That certainly didn't go over well in the plantation based areas, North or South. Nor was any of this appealing to non-English colonists, forced British Isles Emigrees, or those who managed to work themselves out of indentured servitude and started to set up lives of their own.

Of course, when the French came in and turned the tide, support also increased. Lots of people will just wait to see who's going to win before they choose a side.
Under 30% of American colonists actively supported the Revolution when it started.
However, around 50% actively supported it by the time it ended, and another 20% were "favorable" to it - just because they wanted the British Army to go back to England and leave them alone as nd tend to their own businesses.

Haele

[Hortensis]

2. Someone who monitors reported that noisy types on tRumpist sites, when

called to civil war (such as by that guy who attacked the FBI office), have not only demonstrated a strong desire to stay home but promptly started rejecting posters who wanted them to act by suspecting them of being "antifa" or other subversive infiltrators, threatening to turn them in to authorities, etc. (Noting that the response to tRump's own calls was actually enormously inadequate.)

It's somewhat different where the more violent, nihilistic types hang out, such as mentioned in the OP, but their numbers are much smaller. They'd somehow have to get the armchair warriors rousted in big numbers if it was real civil war they wanted and not just extra-notable suicides by police.

Occurs to me to wonder how many wannabe leaders plan to forbid the taking of selfies on The Day. If they'd learned nothing else from January 6,...

[Kaleva]

21. Their excuse for not hitting the streets is they claim it's a trap.

[Hortensis]

23. Right, forgot "the trap!"

And I assume that we'll then herd them into cattle cars and deliver them to the kind of internment/? camps in the desert they want Der Leader to fill with our anywhere from 9-15M undocumented immigrants. The delusionals are able to believe there's nothing we wouldn't support because they've already gone there. It's what they understand.

I also remember social media post all during Obama's presidency reporting "someone I know" seeing one of those trains headed west filled with conservatives... It's true!

[Wounded Bear]

3. Several of the "big" groups have been decapitated following Jan 6...

Leaders of the "militia" groups that participated have been rounded up and charged and are facing trial.

They don't have highly visible leadership to pull it off.

[Hortensis]

10. Yes. Just as some of the groups at Charlotte were shattered by

the legal sequelae from that much smaller event. Serious lack of resilience and resources.

[BlackSkimmer]

30. Charlottesville. VA.

Sorry, but Charlotte, NC is my hometown, so I had to point that out.

[Kaleva]

22. TFG is the only person who could control all the groups

and he's an idiot.

[JHB]

26. And lazy

Organizing that sort of thing would take actual work, which he doesn't do.

It would also take delegating some authority to trusted allies, which he also doesn't do: neither delegate nor trust.

[uponit7771]

4. Increased terrorism will be the center of the "civil war" like it has been for decades

[sop]

6. A few angry, lone wolf terrorists will be all these fools can muster.

There are probably a handful of Timothy McVeigh wannabes out there, itching to blow something up. Civil War? Not so much.

[yankee87]

7. Lone Wolf attacks

You are correct about a lone wolf kind of attack. The only time I remember the crazies having any coordination was Ruby Ridge. Still remember snipers pointing rifles at the FBI. To this day, still makes me mad.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

11. You should really brush up on the Ruby Ridge shootout,

there's a reason that the only one convicted of any crime was Randy Weaver and that was a misdemeanor.

The jury acquitted Weaver of all remaining charges except two, one of which the judge set aside. He was found guilty of one count, failure to appear, for which he was fined $10,000 and sentenced to 18 months in prison. He was credited with time served plus an additional three months, and was then released.

The jury found the Govt had badly overreached their authority and that the Govt had entrapped them.
Plus, the Govt paid out 3.1 million to settle with the Weaver family.

Don't get me wrong, Randy Weaver was a white supremacist POS, but the Govt screwed the pooch on that incident.

[BlackSkimmer]

31. Yes, that incident was a debacle.

As was Waco, imo.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

32. +100. nt

[MarineCombatEngineer]

35. Here's more on the colossal Govt. screw up on Ruby Ridge.

It's lengthy, but very damning to the Fed. agencies involved that day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

[TigressDem]

8. But they wait on words from their leader and then guerilla warfare begins.

That's why Donnie needs to be locked up in solitary confinement where he can listen to the voices in his head and rage all he wants.

Build him his own special mental ward and give him all the help he needs, but never release that POS into civilized society again.

[modrepub]

12. While Dangerous

They aren't that numerous. Compare the women's march and George Floyd protests that happened nation wide versus TFG's call for election protests after he lost. It's just not the same. Yea he managed to get enough of them together to overpower a purposely weakened capital police force.

In retrospect that backfired. I maintain if his supporters hadn't raided the Capital, Republicans would have had a real chance to derail the Electoral College vote by protesting state by state with hopes that during the delay the right-wing echo chamber would have been enough to get the state legislatures in the contested states to step in.

This is more the squeaky wheel gets the oil. You can create an illusion of a mass crowd if the people involved make a ton of noise.

[Hortensis]

17. Absolutely for that first paragraph. And the BLM marches in over 700 cities,

a movement over 70% of Americans polled at the time supported.

The second, maybe? Can't overestimate the ability of those Republicans to swing from open treason to scuttling for the nearest patriotic rock to shelter behind, and out again. Looking forward to the definitive history. I remember someone who should know saying that if the certification could have been delayed tRump and company would have opened up a number of potential paths to proceed.

[Chainfire]

18. The people who dream about being Revolutionary heroes greatly overestimate

their numbers and abilities. There is enough of them to cause a lot of pain, but in the end they would be squashed like the bugs that they are. A lot of them just want to be able to kill people with impunity, because that is the type of people that they are.
A lot of overgrown little boys playing out Rambo fantasies with real guns.

[hadEnuf]

19. The Civil War was settled 157 years ago.The USA stays intact.

Any violent insurrectionist activity is nothing more than domestic terrorism and should be put down like any other form of terrorism.

[Kaleva]

20. Gen. Bonespurs is too incompetent to provide central leadership and planning

[dalton99a]

25. Many nonwhites own guns.

[TheBeam19]

29. It's going to be like The Troubles in N Ireland, etc

[leftyladyfrommo]

34. That's the most likely scenario. They caused a lot of grief. nt

[Elessar Zappa]

36. Yeah, a civil war or even a general insurgency won't happen.

I do, however, expect an increase in maga terrorist incidents.