Frank Figliuzzi on MSNBC: Finally someone backs up what I have been saying.

[fightforfreedom]

He said the DOJ/FBI failed to secure those top secret documents in a timely manner. He also said they were slow in getting the warrant.

That's why I have so angry in my recent posts. Even after they learned Trump was lying to them it took weeks before they got a warrant. I instantly recognized this was not handled well. You don't take your time when some of the most top secret documents in our country are at risk. You act immediately.

They learned there were secret documents in January and you spend months negotiating with someone you know you can't trust. Please give us back the secret documents that are sitting there insecure. How many times did they ask Trump for those documents? It was more than once.

[aeromanKC]

1. Also Figluizzi: Classified for Capital

Trump was squirreling away those documents to be used as a later date for personal gain.

[fightforfreedom]

4. Commonsense says, Hell yes.

[oregonjen]

7. Finally! He and A.B. Stoddard stopped walking on eggshells and went there.

[aeromanKC]

8. +1000

[Demsrule86]

59. And a big who cares. Going after a former president is not the same thing as going after the

average citizen. If these folks don't get that, well I will put them in the never pleased category and ignore them.

[Justice matters.]

81. On January 20, 2021, at 12:00, he returned to ordinary citizen status.

USPOTUS is not a king. He's got no royalty status for life. He is subject to the rule of law exactly like every single US citizen.

What a reality check, eh?

[Handler]

88. It should be exactly the same. No person is above the law. I will comfortable in your ignore pile.

[Kid Berwyn]

24. Remarkable quote from former FBI guy.

“…he’s not just a collector, but rather he was intending to use it to his own benefit. He saw ‘Classified’ as capital and he was waiting for the moment to use it.”

[calimary]

28. He wants to use them to make money.

Last edited Wed Aug 24, 2022, 03:07 PM - Edit history (3)

That's ALL he EVER wants to do.

You've heard of the kid with the most toys. Well, HE'S the kid who wants to be the one with the most MONEY.

He gave the store away when he said "it's not theirs. It's MINE." That's WHERE he is and WHAT he's about and HOW he thinks.

What really annoys me is how naive the media's been, most of the commentators have been, most of the reporters and so-called specialists have been. Having done this for a living, I learned that there's an effort in the media to BEND OVER BACKWARDS AND INTO PRETZELDOM to be, or at least sound, objective. You've GOT TO seem like you're treating everything equally, and you strive to be absolutely immaculately unbiased.

But if you're working so painfully hard to be unbiased, then you're not really doing the job. Your reporting has no direction and no guts. Your approach is cowardly in that you move heaven and earth NOT to point the finger at anybody. Especially when there's such ridiculously glaring proof that one side is pretty much evenhanded and the other is so crooked we're actually talking possible charges that - well - might, could, maybe, come along one of these centuries.

The news media consistently shies away from calling a spade a space, even when reality regularly hits them in the collective face with a big messy cream pie. WAY too cautious when we've long ago established there's reason not to be. TOO MUCH SO, for my taste.

How long did we stay calcified like this? The earliest glaring offense, at least that comes to mind for me, is when all those Russians were invited into the Oval Office, and not a single American journalist or news network/publication/channel/blog was included in the coverage. Not ONE. We had to take what the single invited Russian news outlet made available.

This is one crook who hasn't deserved the benefit of the doubt FOR DECADES by now. He squandered that LONG ago. Why too many people still insist he deserves that privilege. I am NOT one of them. I'd daresay nobody else on this board is, either.

And where was the uproar? Nothing but a shrug - "...Meh, guess that's how we do business these days..."

[yonder]

31. +1. Excellent comments. Where have they been indeed.

[DENVERPOPS]

85. One thing

is they wanted an iron clad case, and they got Trump to say several times, IN FRONT OF THE MEDIA, that there were no more documents prior to this last raid.......

Self incriminating, on the record, several times......

Who knows how many Top Secret items he and his "spawn" had sold in the previous four years? There were signs that he had sold many before he ever left the white house. The feds were probably waiting for proof that he actually sold them by showing proof of who received them. Look no farther/further? than Jared with the Saudis.........

(I can never remember, is it further or farther ?????......)

[Hermit-The-Prog]

32. They weren't shy about "clouds and shadows" over Hillary Clinton

Also, who's to say that trumPutin wasn't transporting documents with every golf trip he made while in office?

[Evolve Dammit]

34. Or as negotiable get out of jail free cards. I'm tired of the theatre. A Dem would have been in jail

[CrispyQ]

79. Here he is, in 2017, revealing secrets to the Russians in the Oval.

[Handler]

89. Right you are. I think he will also use them to leverage power. Which would equal money I suppose.

[FoxNewsSucks]

2. Can we stop being patient now?

[dchill]

15. Let's wait and see. Ask again later.

I would say more, but I hate to use "upset" and "applecart" in the same sentence. Or in the same week.

[They_Live]

16. ...and remember

to keep your powder dry.

[dchill]

40. Dryer than a popcorn fart!

[ShazzieB]

30. Eh, nobody gets to tell us whether to be patient or not.

The way I see it, whatever's going to happen (or not) is going to happen (or not) whenever it gets ready to happen (or not), based on many factors over which we have no control.

Furthermore, those who have the authority to decide what's going to happen and when are going to make their decisions based on factors we have little knowledge of, and they are not required to take our opinions into account. No matter how we may feel about that, I believe that's how it is.

I don't blame anyone for being impatient, believe me. If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. Personally, I am greatly enjoying the steady unfolding of revelations regarding TFG's criminal misbehavior, together with the drama surrounding the Georgia grand jury and the anticipation of September's hearings, and that is keeping me going for now.

It seems like we are learning something new every day, and things are looking worse for TFG all the time. Ths pleases me greatly. If we were hearing no news at all, THAT would bother me a lot, but that is decidedly not the case. So I can live with this for now...but that's just me, and I recognize that some feel feel very differently, and no one has the right to tell anyone else how to feel.

[RussBLib]

39. Well put, Shazzie

I very much related to that. It has been fascinating to watch the steady unraveling (finally) of DJT.

And, by the way, I do wonder what exactly happens when one stops being patient?

[Autumn]

57. Reality Winner. One fucking document. Four years. nt

[DBoon]

61. What was the classification of that one document?

I recall it was "Secret". If so, that is a huge difference from the TS-SCI documents Trump mishandled.

[Frustratedlady]

3. And, the most they could do was suggest a better padlock?

I have to agree. It is amazing our country is still intact.

P.S. Do you suppose Trump knew how to operate a Xerox machine?

[fightforfreedom]

5. Exactly, Can you please put on a better padlock.

[magicarpet]

12. That was Kash Patel's job assignment,...

..... convert the top secret papers to Xerox and digital format for easier storage, handling, and eventual marketability the highest bidders that could be located.

[tishaLA]

38. precisely

Even if whatshisname doesn't go down for this, Patel will. And whatshisname will happily repay Patel's misplaced loyalty with disloyalty.

[magicarpet]

13. That was Kash Patel's job assignment,...

..... convert the top secret papers to Xerox and digital format for easier storage, handling, and eventual marketability to the highest bidders that could be located.

[uponit7771]

82. +1,

[Vinca]

6. I wish Frank had been asked if he thought other Trump properties should be searched. If

he's got stuff at Mar-a-Grifto, he's probably also got it at his favorite golf course and that skyscraper that looks like a bordello in NYC.

[Rebl2]

11. I think

he does too. I think every property he owns should be searched. Maybe Don jr. too.

[Fiendish Thingy]

9. Did Figliuzzi criticize DOJ for waiting 15 mos to indict Joshua Schulte for espionage? Nt

[Scrivener7]

46. We'd all be dancing in the streets if they took action 15 months after the theft of the documents.

[Demsrule86]

58. That is a good point. Hi how are you?

[onenote]

10. The timeline:

NARA first discovers Trump has held onto classified, highly sensitive documents when they are found in the 15 boxes of documents delivered to NARA in mid-January 2022. It wasn't looking for classified material at that time -- indeed its focus appears to have been on more mundane seeming documents that it knew about but hadn't found in the material turned over to NARA at the end of Trump's term. It appears that, having discovered that the boxes contained sensitive material, NARA promptly informed the DOJ which began following the detailed steps laid out in the law to get access to those documents from NARA, which is required by statute not to disclose them to anyone (even the FBI) except under certain circumstances and following certain procedures.

In addition, in early February, DOJ commenced an investigation (including a grand jury proceeding), which over the next couple of months produces credible information (in the form of witness statements) that there are more classified documents at Mar a Lago. DOJ then obtains and serves in May a grand subpoena to recover those documents. The documents are retrieved in early June and Trump's attorney attests that there are no other classified documents. Nonetheless, DOJ continues its investigation, conducting additional witness interviews and obtaining via a new subpoena access to surveillance video from Mar a Lago and learns from other witnesses that there Trump may still have additional classified documents. At this point, DOJ begins preparing a detailed affidavit for presentation to a judge magistrate to obtain a search warrant, which it executes shortly thereafter, collecting additional documents which are currently being reviewed but which are reported to include yet more classified, highly sensitive material.

[Alice Kramden]

18. Excellent timeline

Thank you

[Bernardo de La Paz]

19. Thank you! Thoughtfully laid out important information. . . . .nt

[fightforfreedom]

23. I have no doubt the DOJ was investigating the stolen documents.

It simply appears they could have moved with more urgency with what was at stake. Maybe one day we will learn more about why it took so long to get a warrant. Maybe there are legit reasons. but right now it looks bad.

The most important thing right now is, when will Garland indict Trump. It is pretty clear Trump committed multiple felonies.

[tinrobot]

27. And what would have happened if they searched his residence and came up empty?

You don't just bust into a former president's home without loads of evidence and probable cause.

That's why it took longer than your imagined timeline. They had to know exactly what documents were there, as well as where those documents were located. These things were not trivial, it took time to get all the information they needed to execute the search.

[Saboburns]

41. Totally agree.

Here's an insight. Secret Compartmentalized Information (SCI) documents were found in Mar-a-Loco raid. SCI DOCUMENTS CAN NOT BE DECLASSIED BY A POTUS. also, SCI DOCUMENTS MAY NEVER BE REMOVED BY ANYBODY, INCLUDING POTUS, EVER.

When those level of documents were stolen it was known who had purloined them within 10 minutes. And, assuredly, these documents are tracked real time.

I think all these timelines are hogwash, they're based on the dates of news articles were published, which has no correlation, and does not purport to reveal what the DOJ knows and when they knowed it.

The DOJ knows more than you and I, more than what's been in the media, and for once is being as silent as a post, NO LEAKS.


I think the FBI knows everything and has all the proof.

[Scrivener7]

48. Once again: WHY did NARA not know the documents were missing for a year? HOW did

the absolutely ironclad security procedures that are supposed to be used for these most top secret documents get bypassed?

Once they knew there were documents missing, WHY was an inventory not done to know what other documents were gone? The correct handling of those documents produces a trail. WHY would anyone believe there were no more documents when, surely, their own inventory showed that there were more.

[onenote]

50. How would NARA know?

The reason they started asking was that well publicized documents like the sharpie weather map and the North Korea love letter didn’t appear when the catalogued the documents they had. How would they know about secret documents?

[Saboburns]

64. You're missing a major point. It is important.

NARA is an archive.

They do not provide security for the millions of secret documents in our government. That NARA was not aware docs were missing isn't even a little bit important.

WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THOSE TASKED WITH THE SECURITY OF SECRET DOCUMENTS WERE AWARE THEY WERE MISSING AND POSSIBLY WHO TOOK THEM!

Things like that aren't printed in newspapers. OR ANYWHERE ELSE!

When you finally figure this point out, well then...

Go ahead, give it some thought...

[Scrivener7]

71. Those most secure documents are supposed to be moved only under rigorous security conditions and

with a clear chain of custody among specially designated security personnel. Under those restrictive conditions they are only supposed to go from one SCIF to another.

We're talking about nuclear secrets, by some reports. Spy identities by other reports.

How did those tasked with their security lose track of them? And if they were not returned to the places NARA designated for them, why did NARA not know this?

Go ahead, give it some thought.

[Saboburns]

76. You're still not getting it.

Forget Nara for a moment.

Those most secure documents are supposed to be moved only under rigorous security conditions and
View profile
with a clear chain of custody among specially designated security personnel. Under those restrictive conditions they are only supposed to go from one SCIF to another.

We're talking about nuclear secrets, by some reports. Spy identities by other reports.

EXACTLY! YES! All these things make me think those tasked with document security knew the minute those docs were stolen. Who stole them. And tracked them. The minute they disappeared.

Government Services Administration, GSA, is responsible for the security, and custodians of, US Government secret Documents.

Let me try it this way...

We do not know when these documents were known to be missing. THAT INFORMATION IS NOT YET IN THE PUBLIC SPHERE. The GSA would be the first agency to know, who then goes to the DOJ/FBI and tells them what is missing. The DOJ/FBI investigates this problem. They haven't released any details yet concerning when documents were known to be missing. It could be the minute they were stolen.

All we know is that the NARA didn't know about missing documents. That's all that is in the public sphere, as of now. And it's not all that important!

Get it?

[Scrivener7]

80. So you're thinking it was a sting and for some reason

don't want to say that outright?

I have said often that a sting is the only scenario which doesn't represent a total fuckup by our entire security apparatus.

Unfortunately, that's also the least likely scenario.

[brush]

14. You're right. The DOJ/FBI was too lenient with the crooked...

trump cabal, probably out of respect for him being a former president. It took three visits to MRL to finally get the docs, and now they still don't think they got them all.

Just having them away from the National Archives is criminal and IMO after the subpoena wasn't complied to, the warrant and search should've been forthcoming. I would've skip the last two courtesy attempts to get the docs back.

[FB47243]

17. Dig Her Up!!

It’s obvious.

[Goodheart]

20. +1000

I'm sure the typical Garland defenders will come along shortly.

[Mr. Ected]

21. Might Trump have been the subject of a wire tap or other surveillance during the lag period?

With information this sensitive and national security on the line, it seems preposterous that he wasn't being monitored the whole time to see if he was attempting to sell, move or otherwise leverage the materials he had illegally attained.

I wonder if there is a sting operation that none of us is aware of.

A boy can dream.

[wnylib]

43. I've been thinking the same thing.

I believe that there is a much larger criminal picture here and the search of MAL is just one step in the process. I suspect that there is an indication of more criminal activity with the documents and DOJ is gathering evidence to support that indication.

When it is all out in the open, it will be mind blowing.

Meantime, I am glad to see that, unlike Nixon, Trump is being thoroughly investigated after leaving office.

[Saboburns]

63. Me too!

[Scrivener7]

45. It's the only scenario in which the presence of those documents in a hotel basement for 18 months is

not a complete failure of our security apparatus.

HOWEVER, I don't think that's the case. I don't think the DOJ was particularly concerning themselves with doing much more than "negotiating" about the return of the documents. The reason I think this is that there was a report that the only reason the warrant was served was because someone saw something concerning on security tapes.

Granted, a warrant was served as a result, but that "concerning thing" happened. It was not prevented. This points to this being just a guy saying, "Whoa shit!" rather than a well run DOJ sting operation.

[Mr. Ected]

47. At least that's the way it's being reported

Remember, the media isn't concerning itself with possible covert surveillance. Why would they? But it seems to me that behind closed doors, during Trump's presidency, his powers were on a short leash and our national security and defense departments were ready to pull the plug on any executive order that was out of the ordinary. I wonder if he ever really escaped their radar, particularly post-J6.

Regardless of what WE were told subsequent to the Mueller Report, THEY knew he was a Russian asset and a threat to our democracy. I don't think the powers that be are as deferential to him as the national news media, at least I hope to God they're not.

[Scrivener7]

49. We have to disagree. The very presence of these documents at Log O' Merde says he was not

on a short leash at all.

That's if it was not a sting. In my deepest heart, I really hope it was. It just doesn't look like it, though.

[Mr. Ected]

52. Like I said, a boy can dream

I don't necessarily believe it either, but it's within the realm of plausibility and I'd like to think that our national security is bigger than one man or his cult army of the disinformed.

[Scrivener7]

54. Me too.

This whole thing, in addition to infuriating me, makes me so sad. He just wrecked everything. I think I thought that at the deepest level, there were security people who took their jobs seriously. Live and learn.

[RobinA]

70. His Whole Administration

and beyond has been one big episode of "I thought there were people AT ALL LEVELS who took their jobs seriously." I have always thought that Trump is a narcissistic moron, never bought the notion that he would straighten up and fly right when he got the nomination/got elected/got into office. But I did think that he would be at least somewhat leashed by people on both sides who had some sense. I actually had some notion that there was a bit of a deep state that would make sure nothing went completely off the rails. Although some checks and balances did function, I find it scary and sad that some narcissistic nonmoron could come along and drive us completely off a cliff.

The lack of grown-ups in the room has been the real eye-opener to me in this episode.

[Scrivener7]

86. Exactly this. And I didn't want to have my eyes opened to that!

[Saboburns]

68. Again, I'll point out

NARA is an archive.

They do not provide security for the millions of secret documents in our government. That NARA was not aware docs were missing isn't even a little bit important.

WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THOSE TASKED WITH THE SECURITY OF SECRET DOCUMENTS WERE AWARE THEY WERE MISSING AND POSSIBLY WHO TOOK THEM!

Things like that aren't printed in newspapers. OR ANYWHERE ELSE!

When you finally figure this point out, well then...

Go ahead, give it some thought...

And you might want to slow your roll and stop bitching about how the FBI are clueless stumble bums who didn't even know this stuff was missing for 18 months.

[Scrivener7]

72. And again, I'll point out:

Those most secure documents are supposed to be moved only under rigorous security conditions and with a clear chain of custody among specially designated security personnel. Under those restrictive conditions they are only supposed to go from one SCIF to another.

We're talking about nuclear secrets, by some reports. Spy identities by other reports.

How did those tasked with their security lose track of them? And if they were not returned to the places NARA designated for them, why did NARA not know this?

Go ahead, give it some thought.

[DallasNE]

22. Ask Wray, A Trump Appointee

First, he needed to recuse himself. Plenty of grounds to fire Wray. - wrong person for the job in the first place.

[Starfury]

25. DOJ/FBI don't want to move on Trump.

Just my opinion, but I think they'd much rather it all just quietly went away.

[wnylib]

44. So they have a grand jury just to pass the time of day?

Not likely.

[Starfury]

90. Obviously not

But no one seems to be in a rush, either. Just on these classified documents alone, charges could have been brought months ago, but so far nothing. That seems to be the pattern in all of these investigations.

I'd love to be proven wrong. But Trump is being handled with kid gloves and given every opportunity, far more than anyone else would receive in similar circumstances.

[wnylib]

91. Is he being given opportunities, or

is DOJ lining everything up to have an air tight case that can't lose? It's one thing to see what Trump is doing, but another thing to collect all the witnesses, tapes, and evidence that will hold up so solidly in court that no spin by Trump or his lawyers can get around it.

I think that there is something much bigger going on than we can see, and that DOJ is pulling it all together. That might mean letting some things play out in order to nail them.

[Aviation91]

26. If You Give Someone Enough Rope

they end up hanging themselves! I don't think that was the DOJ's intention but it has ended up working in their favor!

[Rhiannon12866]

29. Here's the video for those who missed it:

Reports That Trump Reviewed Documents Shows His 'Willful Intent' Says Figliuzzi - Deadline - MSNBC
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017761065

Former FBI Assistant Director for Counterintelligence Frank Figliuzzi and New York Times Washington correspondent Michael Schmidt weigh in on new reporting that Trump had over 300 classified documents at Mar-a-Lago, and reviewed many of them. - Aired on 08/23/2022.

[gab13by13]

33. Welcome Aboard fff,

I watched 3 other former prosecutors say the same thing this afternoon, "they are treating Trump with kid gloves."

[Beastly Boy]

35. There we go again. It's DOJ that failed. Wasn't it the National Archive that was

supposed to secure the documents in question, not DOJ? So who failed to secure the said document? Why, DOJ, of course!

And wasn't it NARA that asked the FBI to investigate the whereabouts of those missing documents on Feb 9, with the FBI promptly conducting a search of Mar a Lago on Feb 22?

And wasn't NARA supposed to secure the found documents and request action from the FBI regarding any additional documents that they eventually determined were still missing?

And do we know exactly what transpired between NARA and DOJ in the course of the following six months? Hmmm, no. Nothing at all. And didn't DOJ continue its investigation of the missing documents independent of NARA during this time, ultimately conducting the second search? This can can only mean one thing: it was DOJ that was slow in getting the warrant for the second search. It was DOJ that didn't act immediately. It was DOJ that didn't handle it well.

At the risk of unduly abusing the old tired phrase that embarrassed so many DUers in the past, what took them so long???

Let the blame game continue! Because when there is no basis for all the accusations flying around, it's much more fun to get them flying anyway than waiting for facts to become known.

[William769]

36. I think this whole thread is hogwash

I'll be waiting with the

[gab13by13]

37. So, will DOJ go silent now that we are within 90 days of the election?

My opinion is that Trump isn't on the ballot.

[totodeinhere]

42. I share your frustration, but there is a process that must be followed

and it takes time if it is going to be done right. As we all know the wheels of legal justice grind very slowly.

[CousinIT]

51. I heard that segment. He said that was his criticism of the FBI. Not that they did the warrant but..

...that it took them FAR TOO LONG as they fiddled with Fat Lord Fauntleroy trying to get him to give them back willingly.

[BSdetect]

53. Seen this post?

Jeff Tiedrich
@itsJeffTiedrich
·
Follow
your reminder that Reality Winner swiped one document and was quickly arrested and did four years in prison. no polite requests. no gently-worded letters. no pretty-pleases. no second chances. no months-long negotiations. one document. four years
7:10 AM · Aug 23, 2022

[Scrivener7]

55. She was arrested days after the CREATION of the document she leaked. I don't know

how long after the leak itself she was arrested, but it was days. Not weeks.

[treestar]

75. big difference: she did not have power to classify

that throws another issue in.

[Samrob]

56. We must remember that there quite a few Trumpian embed within the DOJ, still.

How else do you imagine that Trump and his minions have been able to get away with virtually no consequences to them or their fortunes?

[randr]

60. I just called my Senators

I informed them that we are in a slow burn and want accountability from tfg. We can not wait for the Repugs to step up, we need to grab the high road and brand tfg for what he is, a traitor and criminal. There has been a vacuum of response from all Washington and it is time for it to end,

[calimary]

62. This:

“… They learned there were secret documents in January and you spend months negotiating with someone you know you can't trust. Please give us back the secret documents that are sitting there insecure. How many times did they ask Trump for those documents? It was more than once.“

WHY are these folks STILL giving him the benefit of the doubt????????

Shit - we’ve LONG seen how he operates and his EXTENSIVE track record for lying and deceit. It’s not like he’s some new face or nobody who just came outta nowhere!

[mudstump]

65. Top Secret Docs at the highest level.....

should have a chaperone or at least a chain of custody. Why are these docs so easily taken by anyone? If a doc has to be viewed in a secure location why was it taken out of that room? How did Trump get his hands on these? If docs are that sensitive and important to national security and lives are at risk shouldn't the document have someone who is with it at all times?

[fightforfreedom]

66. The Trump White House was a free for all.

People would tell Trump you can't do that. He would then do it and people remained silent. Nothing we can do. A lot of cowards worked for Trump.

[RobinA]

73. This Is Trump's Superpower

He does whatever he wants whenever he wants. He gets away with it because everybody, for a variety of reasons, fears to stop him.

[mudstump]

84. Trump has proven...

just how vulnerable our government is to a wannabe dictator like him. It sure seems like the system needs tightening. There should be stricter rules around security clearances and classified materials should be kept track of all the time. Top secret docs should have an agent assigned to them when they are out of safe keeping and more people should be able to over rule the president on these and other important matters.

[Cozmo]

67. SOP is tippy-toeing around TFG. He's such a crook, but they're all scared of him

[WestCoastDem42]

69. I totally agree!

Additionally, the FBI should immediately surround MAL and turn it inside out. If there's more documents then they need to be reclaimed. IMMEDIATELY!

[treestar]

74. What deadline exists?

Statute of Limitations for the criminal charge is all there is.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

77. It would be good to recover the documents before foreign agents take pictures of them.

Security services may or may not know if that has happened.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

78. Not only slow, but too narrowly focused.

They should have hit all Trump's residences and workplaces simultaneously. He's probably got documents spread all over.

[uponit7771]

83. +1,

[louis-t]

87. And sheepishly asked him to put a lock on the door.

Which apparently was breached according to the security tapes.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

92. The DOJ/FBI were slow to crack down on TFG