What in God's name even started the "student loan debate?" Have we really become that

[Thtwudbeme]

selfish in the US?

I paid mine off, and am thrilled our younger folks are getting some help. Have we lost the ability to remember the rising tide and all boats?

No- not everyone is going to benefit from this program until those kids are your doctors and nurses....and then perhaps you will see "your benefit."

"Your benefit" is a well educated society; do you want to live around people like Tucker Carlson?

[Demsrule86]

1. My husband paid his off too...I went to a state college so I managed to pay my way through

school...you could do that then. I have seen posts that would be right at home on any right-wing site. I can't believe what I am reading.

[EYESORE 9001]

7. It's been a real eye-opener for me

Separates the sheep from the goats, so to speak. I’ll be adding to my ignore list, I’m sure.

[Demsrule86]

11. I am pretty depressed about this. I never expected to find such attitudes here.

It goes to show you the GOP plan to divide and conquer is working.

[Kaleva]

48. Few are progressives on all issues

[Demsrule86]

77. That is fair. It is just that is seems the GOP selfishness and greed is spreading.

[BonnieJW]

28. I have 3 kids

and we paid off all those loans too. I don't begrudge anyone getting help, but I did hear a commentary about this won't encourage colleges and universities to lower out of control tuition and fees. The price of higher education should not be out of reach of the middle class. Lower middle class kids don't even consider education beyond high school. That's shameful.

[Johnny2X2X]

42. That's a good point

But has nothing to do with the forgiveness and reworking of the pay back plans. We're going to have to combat the costs somehow.

But with the income based repayment changes now, kids can go into it with their eyes open. Simple as this, go to college, take the loans to allow you to get through it, and you're going to owe 5% of your discretionary income for 20 years. Now that Biden has made the payments reasonable through the income based payment options, this will be the default method for students, they'll know what they're signing up for. Is college worth 5% of your discretionary income for 20 years? For most students, it's absolutely worth it.

[consider_this]

54. Yours is the very good point!

Everyone is talking about the debt forgiveness, but this move to make the loans affordable seems to be a game changer. I sincerely hope this leads to a more educated populace. We sorely need it.

[grumpyduck]

2. What started it?

The fucking repukes. They are obsessed with complaining about everything the Democrats do.

[evolves]

64. Yup.

Poisonous, petty, puerile.

[FlyingPiggy]

79. It's amazing the # of so called democrats repeating rw talking points

[luv2fly]

83. We don't all have to agree all the time

That doesn't make people "so called Democrats" and to say otherwise is insulting.

[FlyingPiggy]

96. No we don't all have to agree. But repeating rw talking points is sus.

L

[Claustrum]

3. I think there is a valuable debate as to how much or how to use that help.

But there shouldn't be a debate that they need help.

I found it funny that I see some claiming Biden/democrats are "buying" votes, but what about their favorite "tax cuts"?

[Walleye]

6. It's better to rely on votes than billionaires donations

[Demsrule86]

13. So what are we Biden Democrats vs...whatever other Democrats there are...I have no idea what

that even means. And just for the record, I am all in favor of 'buying' Democratic votes before a midterm...are these third-party folks? I don't know. I would think we are all 'Biden Democrats'
'

[Claustrum]

23. I am sorry. I should have been more clear.

The "buying vote" complaints are probably from republicans. Of course, I heard my parents already complaining about "too expensive" and then my youtube started popping up with that "buying vote" complaint video. I tried to hide all RW BS videos from my youtube but they still pops up once in a while.

And for the democrats part, there are definitely more moderate democrats vs. more liberal democrats where there are some who complains about Biden's plan not going far enough and then you have others who says 10k or 20k are too much. I mean, just look at the posts from yesterday. I guess there are some republican trolls coming in to divide us but then there are also some legitimate democrats who hold the beliefs that student loan relief isn't good.

[Demsrule86]

24. Thank you for the clarification. I find some of the negative responses shocking. I am

a liberal. I believe in helping others. This is why I am Democrat and not GOP slime...some would consider me a moderate I suppose others think I am too far left...I don't care about the labels. I am a Democrat. I had some misgivings about student debt relief at first. But Biden has done a great job in both helping and in restructuring how student debt will be paid off going forward so I am onboard enthusiastically. I would back President Biden regardless. We elected him and we have to trust our leaders. President Biden is a good man and we are lucky to have him.

[Claustrum]

25. I completely agree with you.

Biden's plan aligns with most of my concerns back when people were pushing for 50k for everyone. My argument has always been that it should have been salary based and capping/lowering interest rate does more than just forgiving 50k.

At the end of the day, it's a plan that helps people, and I am all abroad for it whether it aligns with my vision of the bill or not.

[Walleye]

4. Tightwads, skinflints, and cheapskates. The Republican philosophy seeping into our party

[Effete Snob]

8. Yup

[hlthe2b]

5. It is an "I got mine, screw the others" society in many ways...

Last edited Thu Aug 25, 2022, 08:44 AM - Edit history (1)

I too paid mine off and will feel the effects throughout my financial lifespan. But I do not begrudge those eligible from getting their loans paid off. Quite the opposite. As hard as mine were to pay off, I can't imagine how much I would have had to borrow today. AND... I want to thwart RW-Trumper strategy to dumb down the American people and to essentially dismantle public and higher education. We need as many people as possible to be as educated as possible. That is no slam towards the applied apprenticeships and other forms of employment-based education, just that I want options for all.

[NewHendoLib]

41. This

[raccoon]

9. I had a coworker once who was so bitter he resented that people

Who were trying to quit smoking at the time (early 90’s), had aids to help them, which weren’t available when HE quit smoking.

His attitude was, if he had to quit smoking without any kind of smoking cessation aids, by God these other people should too.

He’s dead now, but if he were alive he would resent the hell out of this Because these people were getting loan forgiveness and he didn’t.

[Murphyb849]

10. A rising tide lifts ALL boats ❤️

[Clash City Rocker]

12. This sums the issue up pretty well, I think

https://mobile.twitter.com/AnthonyMKreis/status/1562466431479885825

[Demsrule86]

14. That is awesome...for those not on twitter.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

26. That is spot on.

If you've never seen it, The Trolley Problem on The Good Place is worth watching.

[Magoo48]

32. Right on point.

[crickets]

80. That's the best meme I've seen on this issue so far.

It nails the point, and it's so true.

I was fortunate; I had one small student loan after going back to school later in life and was able to pay it off fairly painlessly. But obviously, no one situation fits all.

The horror stories about how interest on some of the current loans has trapped students in forever debt - I wouldn't wish that on anybody. It shouldn't be that way. Thank goodness they are finally being given a way to escape. Wonderful!

[FlyingPiggy]

97. Spot on!

[Pinback]

61. Mysterious, isn't it?

"if you have a problem with the student loan cancellation because you already paid off your loans, just pretend its a tax cut for the rich that you also never got but mysteriously didn't complain about."
- Katelyn Burns

Link to tweet

[Smackdown2019]

15. Uneducated Deplorables who pay nothing in Taxes

Deplorables that feel they pay for everything but hide their true tax income.

As for the forgiveness.... I feel higher education should be free if you give back afterwards. Teachers, Doctor's and Public Workers should have their loans forgiven. If we haven't noticed, the educated are starting to come from outside our country borders.

Educated the future!

[Sympthsical]

16. People forget there were winners and losers in the ACA

And some people paid quite a bit so that others who needed more help got it.

I have never seen so many self-professed liberal people behaving so triggered that someone somewhere got something they themselves will not benefit from.

Do I get a refund because people get welfare?

Do I get a free wheel of cheese because a family somewhere needed food stamps?

The rhetoric surrounding this is unreal. It's just sentiment after sentiment I expect out of the GOP.

I paid my loans. My partner isn't having his forgiven (he makes too much).

We both support others finding relief.

[PJMcK]

17. I paid of my loan a few years after grad school

I went to college in the 1970s. It was a very different world and economy.

I don't understand how these young people got so deeply in debt. A nephew racked up $100,000 in loans for undergraduate and graduate degrees... in Opera! How can he expect to pay that back? Why did it even happen? There are levels to these stories that elude me.

I don't understand it but I'm glad we have a president who sees this problem and has taken steps to alleviate it. Our society can't survive a couple of generations of people buried in debt.

One thing I do comprehend and that's regarding the predatory lenders. They've made their profits. Our government is going to pay them off.

[littlemissmartypants]

18. I wonder if these same recalcitrant people would donate to buskers

As opposed to kicking a homeless person in their way on a sidewalk?

Some people live to be contrary. Somehow they are able to wake up every morning agitated with destructive evil intentions. It's a lifestyle for them.

[mopinko]

19. the thugs and the talking heads get talking points every.damn.day.

that's how.

also, this is going to juice the economy.

[raging moderate]

20. Maybe some don't realize that many loans have become scams.

When you have been paying for decades and now you owe more than ever, that tells me your student loan is being run by predatory criminals. When I took out my student loans in the sixties and seventies, I was lucky to get fair repayment rules. At age seventeen, I certainly did not know enough to protect myself from these vicious scam artists. There should be laws agaiinst a lot of this!

[maddiemom]

35. It's the INTEREST, stupid! (NOT referring to YOU--just a play on a quote).

No reasonable borrower should object to repaying the actual amount borrowed, but the interest rapidly makes the original amount multiple times any income the borrower can reasonably earn in today's market. There must be some middle ground. How did California used to do it before St. Ronnie put an end to free atate school tuition?

[inthewind21]

76. Well

This is how a mortgage loan, car loan, cc and just about any other kind of loan works as well. Just sayin.

[maddiemom]

81. Conditions for repayment are not the same for those loans...nor bankruptcy conditions.

[Ponietz]

21. Just that wedgie trick of theirs again

[link:

Link to tweet

[niyad]

67. Exactly.

[Duppers]

75. YES ❗❗

Make college education FREE to all.

[Ferrets are Cool]

22. Amen. I paid my university debts as I received them, but not everyone can do that.

It's about time someone other than millionaires, corporations, (and tfg) got bailed out.

[Shermanator]

27. I went to a local college

and tuition was very low so I was able to pay my way through. I know a couple of people who paid off their student debt and they're not happy about this. They don't believe it's fair and I kind of agree with them.

[Thtwudbeme]

34. Why? Nothing is "fair" to everyone

I have a friend who just decided to stop chemo and has been given three months to live. She's my age- is that "fair?"

Is it "fair" that I was able to pay off my school loans because I got married, while others are single and struggling? Is that "fair?"

Define "fair."

[uncle ray]

36. yeah, it's not "fair". so?

is it fair to have attended an expensive school, having been sold a bill of goods that an expensive education would get you a high paying job and be rich, only to be stuck with a minimum wage job and college debt that's twice the original loan amount because of one's inability to pay?

good for you. i did the same thing...over twenty years ago. now i'm happy to help others even if it isn't "fair".

[Thtwudbeme]

37. I work as a middle school librarian- every time I see that, all I can see are the

6th graders pouting over something and saying, "That's not FAIR!"

We are turning into a nation of puerile selfish people.

[kcr]

59. Is any social safety net or charity fair, then?

I wonder how many of you who whine and cry about how unfair this is are that way about everything.

[Effete Snob]

51. Do something productive they can pay you for

You know what? There's a whole lot of people who are going to have more money to spend on something other than paying back loans.

Why not join the US economy in some capacity and get some of that?

Just a suggestion. Beats sitting around complaining.

Did your friends make these loans? No? Okay, then they have a shot at getting some of the money that's been freed up, if they are able to do something, you know, worthwhile to anyone other than complaining.

[Effete Snob]

58. How did they like the fairness of random teenagers being sent to Vietnam?

Man, the threshold of 'fair' has really moved quite a bit.

[obamanut2012]

59. C'est la vie for you and your friends

I paid off my predatory loans, and I am soooo happy many folks will have some or all of their predatory loans dismissed, and others will have much fairer repayment schedules.

Anyone who thinks "this isn't fair" needs to grab some empathy, understand why that is the wrong and selfish POV, and get the hell over it.

College and trade school should be free or very low cost, like it is in many countries.

[Effete Snob]

69. Maybe these people can be organized to support reparations for slavery

...since they are so keen on debts being paid.

[Xoan]

29. Vacuity...

They got nothing but stupidity going for them.

[vercetti2021]

30. I'm fine with paying the taxes for these kids to get relief

Big reason I never went to college is because I didn't want to take on a loan like this or anything because you know we didn't have a lot of money and there was really nothing in my profession I really wanted to do that was worth you know a lifetime of debt.. but if my fucking taxes go and actually help people I don't care. I'm not a selfish asshole thankfully.

But I can't believe some of our own actually you know are finding a problem with this. Just really is sad that we can't just take care of each other.

[Joinfortmill]

31. It seems we are. Folks close to me resent it, too...

They focus on 'people need to pay back their loans' and not about the fact that many of these students were conned into paying for worthless degrees with inflated price tags. I'm very glad President Biden fixed this injustice.

[gab13by13]

33. This thread was needed, I agree with it, but

this is what I keep railing about concerning the MSM. I believe there are only 3 or 4 cable news anchors who do not bring up right wing talking points. Arguing over President Biden's loan forgiveness is exactly what Magats want. So when you turn on your morning cable news and one of the supposed progressive anchors is arguing in favor of President Biden's loan forgiveness, just remember that people are debating whether it was a good thing or not, just what the Magats want.

How many news anchors will do his/her show and simply promote, simply declare how fantastic this loan forgiveness was for middle/working class kids? Then come back to me and correct me when I say that CNN and MSNBC bring up right wing talking points.

[The Jungle 1]

38. Hey how about we talk about the massive socialist corporate welfare issue????

Corporate welfare is socialism but the right refuses to acknowledge it.
Corporate welfare is a much larger number than social welfare.

[Dr. T]

40. "A rising tide lifts all boats"?

That comes from Saint Ronnie Reagan and his gaslighting of trickle down economics. Does no one remember that?

[Ponietz]

45. President Kennedy made it famous in 1963

[https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/230520/origin-of-a-rising-tide-lifts-all-boats

[Dr. T]

52. That was refreshing, Ponietz.

Thank you.

[JHB]

72. However, Reagan did mis-apply it

No tide rises from the top down.

[inthewind21]

78. I do

Vividly

[BlackSkimmer]

87. Nope...

Not Ronnie's quote.

[Thtwudbeme]

88. John F. Kennedy

I remember Reagan's horseshit very well.

[samnsara]

43. i did too but when i went to college interest was less than 3%..books were bought used

and tuition was cheaper. Also there were lots of opportunities to work off the loans after school. Just working for Headstart forgave some loans. I have a friend who paid off her pharmacy degree by working in under-served populations and her entire loan was eventually forgiven. College was cheap enough to afford.

No I dont wanna pay off someones medical school bill but i dont get to say where my taxes go and trump gave a lot of our money away to his rich friends. Thats when we should have screamed..but not at students ffs

So if students can get a bit of relief..power to them

[Kaleva]

44. Didn't Tucker Carlson go to college?

There's a lot of highly educated people in the Magahats ranks.

[maddiemom]

82. Carlson was a dropout,I believe.

[Kaleva]

85. He graduated from Trinity College

[Thtwudbeme]

89. Tucker was disappointed that his children went to college

https://www.newsweek.com/fox-host-tucker-carlson-says-college-education-diminishes-you-everyone-should-opt-out-1586212

[Kaleva]

92. I think every commentator at Fox attended college

Last edited Thu Aug 25, 2022, 04:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Although, as pointed out to me, not all earned a degree.

[Thtwudbeme]

93. Sean Hannity was a college dropout

I haven't had time to look up the rest.

[Kaleva]

95. Thanks for the correction! I'll edit my post.

[tiredtoo]

46. Was not going to reply to this

until i read the last line.

[duhneece]

47. Was it fair to people born into slavery...

…that the next generation wasn’t?

[Effete Snob]

70. That's why Republicans support reparations, apparently

[Grumpy Old Guy]

49. I didn't need a student loan.

College was affordable in the 60s & 70s. UCLA was only $660 a year. I could pay that off with a summer job. Howard Jarvis and the "tax revolution" put an end to that.

[Kaleva]

50. There's no requirement to be a progressive to be a member here

[Lonestarblue]

53. Right wing media has tried to convince voters for decades that all Democrats do is take their

tax dollars and give them away to the lazy undeserving poor who could get out of their own poverty if they just worked harder and made better decisions. Of course, they ignore the discrimination, the poor schools, the lack of healthcare, the generations of poverty where parents cannot help their kids, and on and on.

I never had children, yet my whole working life I paid school taxes to send other people’s children to school. Was that fair? To me it was, because I benefit from better educated citizens. When I chose where to live, I chose areas with good schools and thus higher taxes because I also benefitted when it came time to sell a house. I would far rather my tax money be used for education than to pay billions in subsidies to the fossil fuel industry every year.

Educating our young people provides a valuable common good, and thus I have no problem with Biden’s forgiveness. But I would like to see the Department of Education crack down on these fake online universities and help schools do a better job of counseling high school students about college scams. It’s also time to look at public universities and analyze why tuition is so costly at many of them. I remember that during the Republican-caused Great Recession many states cut their support for public colleges quite drastically. Some of them, including Texas, decided to use tax dollars elsewhere (to benefit wealthy donors) and never returned to an appropriate level of support.

[Emile]

55. +1

This sentence was spot on. "I would far rather my tax money be used for education than to pay billions in subsidies to the fossil fuel industry every year."

[judesedit]

56. Exactly. Tell me again how many times Dumpy declared bankrupcy

Those blowhards don't pay crap. They are projecting again. What they're so go at. It was ok when their covid loans were forgiven.

[NoMoreRepugs]

57. I'm turning 73. Went to a private university that cost

4K a year. Same school about 45k today. I was lucky enough to get a decent position and start at 10K a year. Im reasonably certain kids today graduating from that school aren’t starting at 100k+.

They need all the help they can get to start a life.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

62. No debate if you completely ignore :). My new strategy is

To completely ignore the right wing bs. It blows over in a couple days and then you don't have to even hear anything about it

[ashredux]

63. Having an educated workforce, Educated citizens, makes our country strong

Educated citizens what makes our country strong

The cost of education is very high, but we need to have the ability of every person who wishes to get a higher education, can get it. This is a investment.

[Tracer]

65. My daughter complained a little about this yesterday.

She put herself through college, wouldn't take a penny from me, and spent a good 12 years paying off her loans.

The complaint didn't last too long, as she understands that college tuitions have exploded, even since the time she was attending.

I went to an expensive (for the time) college. It was $3000/year and my parents paid it.

Going back further, my dad graduated from MIT and put himself through for $800/year.

[Evolve Dammit]

66. very well said

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

68. It is simple economics...

... when there is help from the government or scholarship or a rich parents or uncle or whoever, to pay for college costs (travel, tuition, room and board/dorms) then those educated people, whether they graduated from the post secondary school or not, will improve their employment prospects = a better paycheck.

We have had such discussions here and in other forums of how assistance to the lower and middle class stays right in the local economies/Main Street U.S.A. for the most part. Not socked away in some Caribbean bank.

That is how you keep the money rolling through OUR economies, local and national.

[3825-87867]

71. Hypocrites?

Didn't hear complaints from these Center Left Better-off DUers worrying about inflation and worse when they got their Stimulus Checks!

Or when they got all that extra stimulus cash for their kids!

Wasn't fair to those of us who didn't have kids! But they happily took that child credit. Also their Earned Income Tax Credit which most of us can't use because we have no children at home!

How about your kids are grown and gone but you still pay school taxes to educate the other kids like those of Center Left DUers?

Not fair!

On a list of things not to bitch about, helping defray Student Debt should be way down on the list.

[DBoon]

73. I think of the story of the poor peasant and the magic lamp

A poor peasant was plowing his field one day, when his plow uncovered an old, mud encrusted lamp. Thinking the lamp might be worth something he cleans it. Out pops a Genii. The Genii says, "I am a magig Genii. I have been in this lamp a log time, and can only grant you one wish. Tell me your wish and I will make it true"

The peasant thought for a bit. Finally the peasant said, "Oh great Genii, I want my neighbor's cow to die"

[Duppers]

74. An idea 💡

Make college educations FREE.



That'd stop the comparisons and complaints.

(on this later.)

[Thtwudbeme]

90. It absolutely should be- and the conservatives will freak out more

they don't want to change, they despise progress- and most of all they hate education

[BlueCheeseAgain]

84. I agree with the main sentiment of your post.

One quibble-- the benefit of this forgiveness isn't a well-educated society. Everyone who receives forgiveness has already gone to college and gotten the education. This only forgives it retroactively.

This forgiveness does not give any incentive for anyone who hasn't gone to college to do so now. Unless they do so expecting their future loans to be forgiven, which I don't think is the intention.

[liberal_mama]

86. I was very surprised at some of the comments from fellow DU members that aren't supportive of

relief for people suffering under predatory student loans.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

91. FOMO

fear of missing out.


or that stupid boot strap philosophy


Or all the ahole's calling it socialism even though the 2008 bank crash was TRILLIONS of dollars or socialism to freaking banks, while people lost their homes....

[Initech]

94. Fox News fucking ruins everything!