Six years of avoiding the subject with my family.

[mtngirl47]

For six years I have consciously decided not to discuss politics or any current events with my parents. They are in their late 80s and I decided that I valued our relationship and therefore avoided ANY discussion that would cause a rift between us. We talked about the weather and my business and family members, but no politics.

Tonight my mother broke my heart. We were chatting on the phone and I told her the exciting news that my daughter, her granddaughter had her student loans forgiven. She was totally silent. My mother didn't exclaim "how wonderful." She didn't say anything. I said--it's very exciting for my daughter---and my mother said nothing.

I guess I can be glad that she didn't spout the Republican talking points, but I'm crying because she let her stupid political beliefs keep her from being happy for her granddaughter. I'm so sad because I don't think I can talk to her any time soon. I don't want to call her and keep it all inside any more.

I want to say: Mom---where is your Christian compassion? Can't you be happy for a young adult like my daughter who has just received a life-changing grant? Why was it OK for my Republican brother's daughter to go to college for free because she got pregnant in high school? But it's not OK for my daughter who worked all the way through college and had to take out some loans because I was going through the recession and didn't have the money to help her at the time?

Mom---I know my sister thinks that college loan forgiveness somehow diminishes her and her children's degrees. What does that even mean?? Mom---you didn't have the money to pay for my college--I got Pell grants, scholarships, work study, and loans. My brother went to college on the GI Bill. You paid for my sister's college---does that diminish her degree since she didn't have to work for it? Or is her degree "better" than mine because she didn't use any "government" money.

Well Mom--I guess you were living by your saying--"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything!" Well, Mom--Bless your heart. (I learned that from you.)

Thanks for letting me vent---just writing this took me from heartbroken to angry. (Probably won't say any of those things to my Mom, and I definitely won't tell my daughter that it happened.)

[Sky Jewels]

1. ...

[Aristus]

2. ...

[Skittles]

3. I know it hurts

but let it go.....just feel happy for your daughter, you're not required to feel sad for your mum's selfishness

[Deuxcents]

14. That's what I would say to you, mtbgirl.

don’t let any thing or any one turn off your joy.

[Dorian Gray]

40. Happy

for daughter and relief for her good fortune! yay!

[elleng]

4. ...

[samnsara]

5. I'm sorry..both my parents are dead and I've disowned my only 2 siblings for their

..political nuttiness ( one completely off the rails left and the other a Maggaat). I feel like an orphan but thank gawd for my husbands family!! We used to be the ultimate Leave it to Beaver family. I hope you have a second family that is more accepting and supportive.



.. fuck trump..he caused this, not us.

[notinkansas]

6. Your daughter is fortunate to have her mother in her corner

if not her grandmother.

I'm a grandmother and I can't even comprehend your mother's attitude. Maybe she will come around? Even if she doesn't, so what? You know what's right.

[questionseverything]

7. So sorry but try to think how much has changed in her life

Since before ww2 if my math is right

Definitely don’t tell your daughter

We are really happy for her and everyone this loan forgiveness will help!

[slightlv]

8. ((hugs))

I'm not going to say anything to my Mom about her granddaughter, either... for fear of the same thing possibly happening. I think she'd be happy, but on the off chance she'd take the other tack, I don't want my daughter to be disappointed.

I was the one last night, who got to deliver the good news to her that it looked like all but maybe $500 of her student loans would be forgiven. The phone was dead air for so long I thought we'd gotten disconnected! But she was trying to keep me from hearing her cry. She knows how hard it was for me to get through college. I was raising her has a single mother and working at the same time. But I told her I was thrilled to death for her, that she was going to get this breathing room and not have this following her around for near the rest of her life.

I am thrilled for her; and I won't let anyone take that feeling of relief away from her.

[delisen]

9. Let me tell you that I am thrilled for you and your daughter.

I am thrilled for a family member who call me, excited by the news. She had struggled over the years with this crazy debt. I am happy for all who benefit.

We need to invest in our young, not burden them with debt. They are paying for their elders social security. They need to be able to afford to have homes and families, to have discretionary income, and be happy.

So let’s celebrate together. Congratulations!

[Meowmee]

10. Sorry that is not an easy thing to deal with

Fortunately we have no dumpers etc. in our family, what is left of it, so I never had to deal with that.

[localroger]

11. I didn't speak to my parents for seventeen years

Fortunately it was younger, so we did eventually reconnect. But sometimes you have to just leave. You are not your parents' slave. You do not owe them anything for the unsolicited gift of your birth. And those that think you do owe them something for that can only be shunned. That is not how it works to be human. It can be hard. And with luck, sometimes, they can learn better. But they won't if you don't show them that you are serious.

[gratuitous]

12. I'm going to hazard a guess

Your daughter paid back the principle on the loan at least once over. She was still in debt because of the accrued interest (a rate that might make a loan shark blush).

I'll hazard a further guess that your mother is a good church-going Christian. You don't have to beat her over the head, but point out how the Israelites, after being released from bondage in Egypt, wrote it into their society that eased the burdens of financial bondage. Leviticus 25 and Deuteronomy 15 if she likes cracking open her Bible.

Jesus had a thing or two to say, as well, about forgiving others as we would like to be forgiven (The Lord's Prayer, which many Christians recite daily or at least weekly). In Matthew 18, he tells the story of the servant who owed his master thousands upon thousands. The servant begged his master for mercy and time. The master was moved by the servant's show of contrition, and forgave the whole debt. The servant then went out and bullied another servant who owed him some money. When the second servant begged for mercy and time, the first servant had him thrown into prison. As your mother might guess, the conclusion of the parable isn't favorable to the first servant.

You know your mother better than I do, and you will know best what might be effective in changing her mind. But if you can speak her language a little bit, it might bring you closer to a meeting of the minds.

[mtngirl47]

16. Funny story about that subject--

Early in the trump years I quoted the Bible to my mother about some crap he was doing and my mother screamed at me: "Don't play the Christian card!"

It was around that time that I decided to stop talking to them about anything political.

[gratuitous]

20. Perhaps just be happy for your daughter yourself

It's tough to come to terms with someone so comfortable in their contradictions. But you might still mention that nobody's getting "cheated" just because your daughter's unreasonable financial burden has been eased. It's just a move toward fairness.

[lambchopp59]

13. it took me a decade I scrimped to pay off my student loans

Yet nearly another decade to resurface after car payments on a late model car, ridding myself of the used motorcycles I used to get around when the weather allowed, rent, bills, necessities without any extravagances at all.
My family could not afford to help like they did my older siblings. The 1970's recession was devastating to their finances.
So by the time I finally got in the black, housing had become ridiculously out of reach expensive.
Much of my older family, average a decade older than I were able to afford college on family funds, bought their homes long ago.
Gen X and beyond needed this help.
I could never be so scroogey to deny future generations some break on that situation.

[SheltieLover]

15. ...

[Karadeniz]

17. If she won't change on her own, there's nothing to be done about it. Just tell yourself no one's

perfect and overlook the narrow mindedness and look for the reactions you can respect.

[Katcat]

18. If she couldn't share in my joy

And my daughters joy, then I don’t think I’d bother sharing anything else joyful with her. And if she ever asked why, I’d just say “you suck the joy out of things”.

[onecaliberal]

19. :

[lostnfound]

21. Late 80s..let love flow, and ask to hear stories from her youth

Did she have a job when young? Did she remember her grandparents? Earliest memories? best high school friends? In some way you’ve almost already lost her but have been granted some extra time for stories.

I’m sorry. It’s awful. And understandable to be angry.

Your brother used government money… so are Pell grants, of course.

[Trueblue1968]

22. so sorry sweetie. i have GOPig relatives too. My younger sister and 3 of her 4 kids & spouses

but my 2 great grand niece and nephew are both Dems !~!!!


i never talk to them about politics and i have hardly seen them for years.

[MLAA]

23. Congrats to your daughter! How wonderful and so glad she has/will feel a sense of relief!

It certainly says a lot about your mom that she couldn’t be happy for you and your daughter. I doubt you will ever understand it. I’m glad you have love from your daughter and lucky for her, her mom is so supportive and loving! ❤️💗💖

[live love laugh]

24. The brainwashing is so fast and thorough now. Shame.

[Evolve Dammit]

41. It really is and has worked extremely well to divide us. Autocrat model. Never thought here.

[Evolve Dammit]

42. It really is and has worked extremely well to divide us. Autocrat model. Never thought here.

[AlexSFCA]

25. being able to compartmentalize means being mature adult

don’t let politics affect your relationship with your mother.

[vanlassie]

26. But you do understand how difficult that can be, AlexSFCA?

Because that doesn’t sound so supportive.

[multigraincracker]

27. Mom and dad were born and raised in the South.

They both passed away about 15 years ago in their 90s. Both life long Dems that change along with the Party.
Dad had two uncles, brothers from Arkansas that fought on different sides in the Civil war. May be we have come full circle.
I have a few old hippy friends from the 60s that have gone to the dark side. I’m shocked and sad about it.
Now only have a brother and his 2 kids as my only living relatives.
I think it was Allan Watts that said “The more things change, the more they stay the same”.
Best of luck, you are not alone.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

28. Wow, your sister thinks loan forgiveness diminishes degrees?

Like on a job interview, would anyone even know how someone's degree was paid for?

[disambiguation]

29. Just let your mom know that your daughter is in "good" company

It seems some notable republican "heroes" got their loans forgiven.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/8/25/2118845/-So-the-WH-Twitter-account-named-names

[usonian]

30. Feeling sorry for your Mom.

Every religion I've encountered was rooted in compassion and forgiveness (including debt) and unselfishness. To take an unforgiving position because "the wrong person did it" is to cut oneself off from great abundance and joy.

I hope that she can find that.

Denial and contradiction (it was OK to forgive loans to the mega-rich) are the basic rules of cults. Without going into that, I hope she can break free. For her own benefit and happiness.

Peace

[AllaN01Bear]

31. that jerk split families , sisters . mothers and fathers sons and daughters and down the line

will america ever recover in this arena ? i knew smart people who went totaly stupid under him.

[iluvtennis]

32. So happy for you and your daughter. Don't let your mom steal the joy

you all feel. It’s her issue that she can’t be happy for her granddaughter because of a political affiliation- it boggles my mind.

Hugs to you and your daughter.

[tavernier]

33. It made three of my grandchildren very happy

And I am thrilled for them.
I’m so sorry that you had to waste tears over that. Forgive your mom and be happy that in this instance you are the better person

[KS Toronado]

34. Sit down with pen & paper and write Mom a letter

Rant like you did here and more, get everything off your chest and onto paper, wait one or two days
in case you need to add anything else, then put it in an envelope, seal it and write "I still Love You"
on it and file it away somewhere. You'll feel better having said things and you'll not shorten their
lives by receiving it. Been there done that.

[Doodley]

35. Did she understand what you were saying?

[pazzyanne]

36. ...

There are many who share your heartache over "lost" family members. This split happens in most families today. Not discussing politics is a way many of us choose to maintain family ties.

Just remember there are many of us who share the joy your daughter is experiencing after the loan forgiveness was announced! Congratulations to you both that her transition into her adult life will be a little easier. Celebrate the gift you and your daughter have been given!!!

[DemocraticPatriot]

37. Late 80s? I suggest, give her the benefit of the doubt...

That is very old.... the brain does begin to deteriorate by then.

Perhaps when you told her, her mind was elsewhere, possibly even dreaming of her own youth...

If she said nothing at all, as you say, you should not presume to read her thoughts.... especially as she did not criticize the outcome.


I am much younger, but my mind can often wander as well, even if someone is talking to me.

If she was understanding all, I am sure that she was happy for the outcome, but perhaps would not say anything if she disliked President Biden... lol. It is as well, she could effect nothing either way, at this stage. I suggest you only love your mother, with all her faults. It is too late to change them, and she won't be with you much longer. She does not seem to be preaching right-wingerism to you at this late date.... so it would be a great shame to let "politics" ruin your last few years with her.


Family is more important than politics.


P.S. My own father, after many years of supporting the Democratic party, expressed some support of Trump in the last year of his life. I chose to ignore him. He was very hard of hearing, by then.... I presumed that had something to do with it.

[halfulglas]

38. Gee. I didn't know degrees now have become zero sum.

If I win, you have to lose. A little secret - most degrees unless they are from the most prestigious university show up the same on a job application. It says graduate. Not only that, the med school grad who graduates at the bottom of his class, still gets called Doctor.

Has your mother always been that way or is that more recent Republican thinking?

Yeah, my mom used to say the same thing, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." But she lived that way, too.

I am thrilled that Biden took that action yesterday and I sincerely hope if we gain seats in the House and Senate we can legislate some more once this is shown that it's a good thing to have young people working harder because they know they are building their futures, not crushed by debt from the past. I really think it's going to be good for the economy.

We paid my son's college tuition by taking loans out against our house (although that's not the recommended thing to do) because we didn't want him to be burdened by debt, but when he had kids, because his wife was still paying on her loans from grad school, he did the prepay through the state so as long as the girls can go an in-state college tuition free.

[Dorian Gray]

39. I understand your need to vent

family is complicated and interactions loaded with context nobody here can truly understand.

But maybe I can give you an alternative narrative that can make you feel better. Maybe she bought into the loan forgiveness being bad, but your news took her by surprise, and she was trying to process the dissonance. The actual fruits and benefits to a loved family member vs. the deep held beliefs that she's been led to believe.

Sometimes, it takes being exposed to an idea's effects to come to terms with it and embrace the good.

It's unfortunate that your mom has different beliefs than you. My parents do, too. (Though in my case they are Republicans who despise Donald Trump and believe in the benefits of vaccination, so that's helped blur some friction over the last five years.) I know how it can get in the way of relationships, and I'm so sorry you're going through that.

[Evolve Dammit]

43. A steady diet of Faux News and/ or hate radio does it all the time. Doesn't matter how old you are.

[SWBTATTReg]

44. My heart goes out to you on your Mom's reaction. But by far the most important detail of

your post was that your daughter got her wonderful help in her schooling, by having some of her student loan(s) forgiven. This is truly the Christian thing to do in anybody's book, and those that don't think this aren't worth my salt in worrying about what they think.

Be joyful and enjoy your daughter's fortune. These moments don't come often, and when they do, thank God for the miracle and perhaps later in life, your daughter or you might help someone else w/ that same spirit too, that Joe Biden did for all of these students.

They say something like pay it forward and it comes back multi-fold. I'm a firm believer in this.

Take care and Congrats to you and your daughter.

[CrispyQ]

45. Send her this cartoon.

A lot of the people getting help didn't even get a degree because they couldn't afford to finish college. Good for your daughter! I'm glad to know someone, even if it's virtually, who benefited from this!

[cksmithy]

46. I got my degree as an adult, (this is a long boring story)

after spending 15 years in education as an aide, I got my degree in 2000, teaching certificate in California 2001, no "Good job, or isn't that nice." from my parents. Out of 6 children, I was the only one who got an AA, a BA and then a Teaching Credential. Girls in my family were discouraged from getting any type of degree or even working. My sister who has since passed away, got her children college degrees, despite her ex-husband. I went to college, after one daughter graduated and the other was getting her degree. My parents thought all college education was worthless for girls. I got to teach 10 years as a teacher, before retiring. No one in my family understood the hard work and determination it takes to graduate. (I am sure they just thought I was trying to be better then them or maybe I was a Democratic demon, I have heard that more than once.) Anyway, I am sorry, your joy and relief was not felt by your mom. I know how that loss of shared happiness and goodness feels. My parents have since passed away, but my 3 brothers (one who always thought our State University was only a community college, that didn't count,) still think it is only a man's world of patriarchy. My younger sister has finally left the religious church of our back ground, but still does not understand the importance of any higher education. Again, I am so sorry that your mom could/would not understand how great this is for your daughter. My mother chuckled/laughed at me when I told her I had graduated, didn't say anything about how great when it was when our daughters graduated. All of this happened when a college degree was affordable. My husband put 3 of us through college. We could not help them now. I am happy for you and your daughter that she got the student debt relief.

[Polybius]

47. Your mom is a Republican

It's expected that she opposes student loan forgiveness, (even some Democrats do). You brought it up, and your mom did not argue, nor did she lie and say that she was happy. I'd be glad if I were you that things turned out so well.

[A HERETIC I AM]

48. You should print that out and mail it to her.

Embellish where needed, tweek it here and there, but send your mom that letter.

That's my suggestion.

It will do one of two things;

1) Start a dialogue where there is none.
2) Start an argument, which you can quickly end.

Either way, it won't make the situation any worse than it already is.

[Riverman100]

49. this saddens me

It shows how rite wing media has destroyed so many lives, and relationships with friends and family. It sickens me. really bringing me down

[Pisces]

50. She's 80+. Leave her to her ideas. You can still celebrate your daughters good fortune. I don't

Think trying to change someone 80+ is productive.

[onlyadream]

51. My mom is 89 and I'm in the same boat as you

It took her two years to tell us that she voted for Trump. She is as Christian as they come and would never lie. As teenage girls, if someone called she would never say that we weren’t home, we had to run out of the house so she could say that we weren’t in the house!! But yet, she likes the biggest grifter, conman ever!!! It breaks my heart.

[calimary]

52. Damn... so sorry to hear. I'm so sorry this has torn up your family.

I’m glad we all have this crazy place where we can vent in safety, knowing we’ll find validation and consolation.

Yeah, it’s your parents. I had conflict with both of mine. They encouraged me to be an independent thinker but then didn’t approve of where my thoughts took me.

I know it’s hard. I know it hurts. And I know you want to stay classy and above it all for the sake of keeping the peace.

Just know this: it’s safe to vent and share and talk through stuff here. There probably are more adult children struggling with this kind of issue with their parents - here. There’s a lot of sympathy and kindness and non-judgmentalism here. Lots of support here. Avail yourself of it. And it really does make a difference.

[Joinfortmill]

53. That's tough. I'm sorry. But, I'm very happy for your daughter. Hope your mom comes around.

[Better Days Ahoy]

54. I was a fortunate one

mtngirl47, so sorry you're doing with this stupidity. Congrats to your daughter! We're here to cheer her on.

My dear father left school at 13 in 1927 to help to support the family as eldest of 8. The family was living in the Italian tenements on Hester Street -- think: opening scenes of Godfather II. Made it to head of North America for Zim.Lines. He paid my entire undergrad ride except for $7500 in student loans because he wanted to teach me the value of money. Ugh.

I remember walking by the lines of students waiting to re-up their Pell Grants and thought: I'm very fortunate and grateful to my Dad. A year after I graduated from Oxy, he was dismissed from Zim. you can read his lawsuit, which is taught in some law schools in employment law classes. Wild.

The thing: My degree from Occidental is in no way diminished because more current Pell Grantees just had loans forgiven! GOOD! Or because my employer footed my MBA bill from Tulane. Kind of happy I stuck it to corporate, actually. Again, I've been fortunate.

And again, congrats to your daughter for this life-changing event. Wishing your family the best of times.

[Bettie]

55. It's hard, but honestly, isn't it better to know

who they are? Now you know and you can curate your interactions with her instead of being blindsided by it at some point.