WHAT THE F? former prisoners have to reimburse the cost of their jail stay? $249 per day?

[IcyPeas]

I had no idea this is a thing. I think this is outrageous. Where are these prisoners supposed to get that kind of money?

At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt
A few states have been amending or repealing “pay-to-stay” laws that require former prisoners to reimburse states for the cost of their jail stays, sometimes at daily rates exceeding what they would have paid to stay in a luxury hotel

All but two states have so-called “pay-to-stay” laws that make prisoners pay for their time behind bars, though not every state actually pursues people for the money. Supporters say the collections are a legitimate way for states to recoup millions of taxpayer dollars spent on prisons and jails.

Critics say it's an unfair second penalty that hinders rehabilitation by putting former inmates in debt for life. Efforts have been underway in some places to scale back or eliminate such policies.
...
Pay-to-stay laws were put into place in many areas during the tough-on-crime era of the 1980s and ’90s, said Brittany Friedman, an assistant professor of sociology at University of Southern California who is leading a study of the practice.

As prison populations ballooned, Friedman said, policymakers questioned how to pay for incarceration costs. “So, instead of raising taxes, the solution was to shift the cost burden from the state and the taxpayers onto the incarcerated.”
...
“The policy is to make one appreciate that your incarceration costs money,” he said. “The taxpayers footed the bill. They didn't do anything wrong. And knowing that one has to pay the state back a reasonable sum on a regular basis is not a bad policy.”

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/249-day-prison-stays-leave-inmates-deep-debt-88930478

[Sogo]

1. Sounds like cruel and unusual punishment....

[GoodRaisin]

25. Not to mention beyond stupid. nt

[Sanity Claws]

2. Sounds like a way to trap them in the criminal system

No one is able to pay his so-called debt to society and is permanently disenfranchised and a second class citizen.

[okaawhatever]

15. And in many states u don't regain voting rights until all $$ is pd

[thecrow]

3. What about prisons which have been privatized?

[Brainfodder]

4. For profit prison BS?

Some BS with those caged kids being $750 a day, also?

[Niagara]

20. NO! Pres, Obama did no such thing.

Enjoy your short stay though.

[Niagara]

22. You're asinine RW bullshit has already been debunked ages ago.

You obviously can't read either.

[Biophilic]

5. How can someone possibly get a head of this.

Not only do they have to deal with being an ex-convict, but then to end up with thousands of dollars in debt. How republican of them. Cruelty is the goal.

[maxrandb]

8. How can this be constitutional?

Is this fine, or whatever the fuck it is, included in their sentencing?

I mean, do they say "you're sentenced to 7 years, $5K fine, AND $250 per day room and board"?

If not, then how is this not being punished twice for the same offense?

This can't be constitutional, can it?

[former9thward]

17. All states, except, Hawaii, have fees.

Not just Republican states.

“Every state in the U.S., except Hawaii, charges pay-to-stay fees,” said Friedman.

Friedman says rationales justifying these fees routinely do not recognize them as a form of punishment and instead policymakers see pay-to-stay as financial reimbursement to the state by portraying incarcerated people as using up system resources. The justification allows pay-to-stay statutes to survive legal arguments alleging double punishment.

Civil penalties are enacted on family members if the defendant cannot pay and in states such as Florida, Nevada and Idaho can occur even after the original defendant is deceased.

https://www.rutgers.edu/news/states-unfairly-burdening-incarcerated-people-pay-stay-fees#:~:text=%E2%80%9CEvery%20state%20in%20the%20U.S.,stay%20fees%2C%E2%80%9D%20said%20Friedman.

[Biophilic]

18. I had no idea and I'm just appalled.

I shouldn’t be because I know our system is designed to punish not rehabilitate but still I’m appalled at my country. All the things I didn’t know and I thought I was well educated and aware. Not even close.

[old guy]

6. If they don't pay, they can't vote?

[70sEraVet]

7. So if they can't pay off that debt, what do they do? Throw them back in prison?

If they actually want an ex convict to become a contributing member of society, which in the long run would be beneficial for the state, they have to be given a fighting chance.

[vsrazdem]

9. Then they should be paying them minimum wage when they're in prison.

Average Wages for Inmates
Typically, wages range from 14 cents to $2.00/hour for prison maintenance labor, depending on the state where the inmate is incarcerated. The national average hovers around 63 cents per hour for this type of labor. In some states, prisoners work for free.

[crickets]

11. 👆At least minimum wage. nt

[Hortensis]

10. A simple bankruptcy procedure should be allowed to abandon

unpayable, or overly burdensome debt. Some people are able to pay, and I have no real problem with states and counties that choose to at least provisionally require convicted criminals to pay for all or more usually part of their incarceration expense -- just as long as it's done right by a just and sensible society committed to rehabilitation into society as the primary goal.

The problem's in that last, of course, as it always tends to be with "the people's" disposition of some of their least-valued members. And after 40 years of increasingly morally bankrupt political domination by anti-government, anti-tax, anti-regulation, very punitive "Republicans,"... Beyond appalling.

First do no harm.

[crickets]

12. This is insane.

It is cruel and unusual punishment. What about all of the money inmates generate while behind bars?
Inmates in work programs save multiple states untold millions in wages that would otherwise have to be paid by hiring from the civilian job market.


US prison workers produce $11bn worth of goods and services a year for pittance
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/15/us-prison-workers-low-wages-exploited
No paywall: https://archive.ph/HcWOS

Incarcerated workers in the US produce at least $11bn in goods and services annually but receive just pennies an hour in wages for their prison jobs, according to a new report from the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).

Nearly two-thirds of all prisoners in the US, which imprisons more of its population than any other country in the world, have jobs in state and federal prisons. That figure amounts to roughly 800,000 people, researchers estimated in the report, which is based on extensive public records requests, questionnaires and interviews with incarcerated workers.

ACLU researchers say the findings outlined in Wednesday’s report raise concerns about the systemic exploitation of prisoners, who are compelled to work sometimes difficult and dangerous jobs without basic labor protections and little or no training while making close to nothing. [snip]

Public officials have acknowledged that the work of these unpaid and poorly compensated incarcerated laborers is crucial: “There’s no way we can take care of our facilities, our roads, our ditches, if we didn’t have inmate labor,” Warren Yeager, a former Gulf county, Florida, commissioner said to the Florida Times-Union.

Arizona Can't Function Without Forced Labor, Is That Bad?
https://www.wonkette.com/arizona-can-t-function-without-forced-labor-says-corrections-director

As much as we love to talk about how we have "abolished" slavery in these here United States, there is an exception to the 13th Amendment — involuntary servitude is still legal if it's being used as punishment for a crime. In Arizona, as in many states, prisoners are required to work 40 hours a week for at little as 10 cents an hour, unless their health does not allow it (which is a very big possibility considering a federal judge just found the state's prison healthcare system to be "plainly grossly inadequate" and "unconstitutional" ).

Giving testimony on Thursday before the state Legislature's Joint Legislative Budget Committee about "a Request For Proposal for a contract to run the Florence West prison," Arizona Department of Corrections Director David Shinn explained that many Arizona communities would "collapse" without prison labor. [snip]

According to the ACLU, "charging misdemeanors as felonies, throwing thousands of people behind bars instead of offering drug treatment or diversion services, and abusing prosecutorial power to secure guilty pleas are just some of the tactics used that have led to Arizona’s exceedingly high rate of incarceration."

These things are all connected. They have to pay the private prisons, they have to fill the private prisons, they have to provide slave labor and in order to do that, they have to send a lot of people to prison for a very long time. The first private prisons started in Texas in 1985 and prison populations have since skyrocketed. That's not a coincidence.

[graph showing the rise in incarceration rates from 1925 to 2000]

[IcyPeas]

23. This is so appalling and unfair.

They use inmates to help fight wildfires too. I had no clue prisoners were expected to pay room and board. What a scam this system is.

Here's the graph from the article you posted.

[crickets]

24. Thanks for posting that.

Notice the jump from the Reagan era onward. Those three strikes laws and the "war on drugs" are really something, aren't they?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

27. Rotten Ronnie and the Newt just keep on damaging.

[Solly Mack]

13. K&R

[patphil]

14. That's over $90,000. a year!

Assuming a 40% tax on $150,000 yearly income, that is exactly $90K. And that doesn't allow any money to live on. Can they write this off on their taxes? I doubt it.
So they'll need a job way in excess of $200,000. to pay their debt and make living expenses.
Remember, that's $90K for every year they were in prison. It could easily be hundreds of thousands, or even over a million dollars for long prison sentences.
What kind of a job is a released prisoner going to get that pays anywhere near that?

It's double punishment for the same crime, and prevents a criminal from ever rehabilitating themselves. They're either penniless on the street, or back into the world of crime, and eventual re-incarceration.

This should be unconstitutional, but I don't think it will ever go before the SC.

[crickets]

16. Kicking for the evening crowd. nt

[berniesandersmittens]

26. Inhumane and appalling

These fees would be on top of any restitution, probation/parole fees, court costs, etc.

This could bring a never-ending cycle of debt that discourages rehabilitation for a majority of low level offenders.