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maxrandb

(15,566 posts)
Sun Aug 28, 2022, 10:52 AM Aug 2022

The real damage Donnie Dipshit has done to humanity

There is a pretty decent movie called "Second Hand Lions". Robert Duvall has a great speech in the movie.

"Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things that a man needs to believe in the most: that people are basically good; that honor, courage, and virtue mean everything; that power and money, money and power mean nothing; that good always triumphs over evil; that love, true love, never dies... No matter if they're true or not, a man should believe in those things because those are the things worth believing in."

That is pretty much a quote explaining how civil society survives.

A lot of these things quoted really are not true, but by striving to reflect those values, and more importantly, society holding those values sacred, we are civilized.

The belief that we should adhere to these values requires us to be better.

It's what enables an anti-LGBTQ paramedic to rescue someone who is gay.

It's what makes sure a banker doesn't steal millions, despite having the means to do so.

It's what stops someone who covets from taking what they want by violence.

Throughout history, from slavery to the Holocaust, evil reigns when powerful people convince others that those things we should believe in are bullshit.

See, like in the speech, it doesn't matter whether those things are true, what matters is that we believe them to be true

We have any entire political party and movement that is telling us that those values are NOT true...that if we believe them to be true, we are suckers and losers.

This is the damage one amoral, ignorant, despicable and disgusting man has done, and that damage is massive.

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sop

(10,674 posts)
16. Republicans are classic nihilists, rejecting objective truth, knowledge, morality and human values.
Sun Aug 28, 2022, 01:48 PM
Aug 2022

Biophilic

(3,901 posts)
5. What matters is we believe them to be true.
Sun Aug 28, 2022, 11:06 AM
Aug 2022

Yes!! But sometimes it’s harder to believe them then other times.

TigressDem

(5,125 posts)
7. To make those things "TRUE" there must be a deep belief first. THEY CAN BE TRUE.
Sun Aug 28, 2022, 11:23 AM
Aug 2022

Humans have the capacity for BOTH GREAT GOOD and GREAT EVIL.

Like the Native American truism that we each have two wolves inside of us and the one we feed the most flourishes, we can CHOOSE to be the better person and the majority of people have the capacity to make that choice.

There are some who by genetics (sociopaths) are inherently unable to process the reasons why one should put others needs first and some who by upbringing usually (co-dependents) tend to have problems making sure their own needs don't get lost in the shuffle of day to day living. MOST people can find the best in themselves and live a better life that brings worth and prosperity to themselves and others. Whether they CHOOSE to do so or are motivated to make that choice is another matter.

MOST people look at HONOR, COURAGE and VIRTUE as positive values. It's why we "support the troops and police" who put themselves in harms way for the benefit of society. (When those people are actually doing their job and not using their position of power to make others lives miserable.)

LATELY I have noticed that those values seem to be "for others" and not so much what the common folk feel is within their abilities. I know I wish I had more of those values myself at times.


AND the reason it is broken is because BIG MONEY has sold us a line of BS that we are powerless. Being bombarded with lies constantly and trying to hold onto the truth is exhausting at times.



"Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things that a man needs to believe in the most: that people are basically good; that honor, courage, and virtue mean everything; that power and money, money and power mean nothing; that good always triumphs over evil; that love, true love, never dies... No matter if they're true or not, a man should believe in those things because those are the things worth believing in."

Sympthsical

(9,238 posts)
8. It's not Trump. It's the Internet.
Sun Aug 28, 2022, 11:32 AM
Aug 2022

People - all people - are fed a daily stream of depersonalization that not only allows but encourages nastiness towards others. It enables tribal groupings in ways we've never seen before. Look at incels, for example. These losers would be alone in mom's basement somewhere. But the internet has given them the tools to socialize, band together, and feed each other's toxicity.

If you take a step back from your (general you) partisan politics and really look at the internet. Just observe people. Not the specifics of what they're saying or whether or not you agree with it. How they're saying it. What they're doing. How they're characterizing other people and treating them.

It's not a good look. It's an unending battle to otherize and denigrate. There is no disagreement possible. Everything is reduced to good and evil, making persuasion - or even conversation - impossible. Yeah, the MSM, cable news, and talk radio got the ball rolling on this, but social media took it to levels unimaginable in any other age of human history.

When you no longer see other people as people - and in the safe confined of the anonymous internet, that is very easy - then it becomes very simple to justify one's own behavior. "Those other people don't count. They're less human. I can be as awful as I want."

And once each side no longer sees the other as people worthy of consideration, then it's on. Then the shittiness kicks into a higher gear. The toxicity feeds on itself.

Because we're human, we're still having Wars of Religion, it's just what religion looks like has changed. Now it's much more ideological rather than theological. And of course, every side is absolutely positively certain they're on the side of the angels, that their side has the secrets to all good things.

Which is . . . not very different from how people behaved in medieval times.

Trump isn't the cause. He's the symptom. We (collective we) opened a shit portal, and then we're all surprised that a shit demon waltzed on through. And we act like this wasn't the MSM's favorite thing in all history. What would they talk about if Trump weren't around? Hell, forget the MSM. What would people on social media talk about all day if he weren't around? I have Trump on all kinds of filters because I do not want to hear about him all day. It's toxic and unhealthy. Yet he still gets through. Endlessly. Pointlessly. Like, it's not even interesting relevant discussions about him. It's just disposable babble until he does the next thing.

Is this a horrible thing, or are people actually having the best of times with all of it?

Because people really, really, really enjoy talking about the man, using him as a tribal totem - for and against - and just centering their minds and their lives around it. It's war from the couch against the faceless, disposal, characterized other.

We're kind of an awful society in many ways - yes, even on our side. And social media has allowed that id to escape into the real.

I'm not sure what anyone was expecting.

"We're all about the good and the truthful and the righteous." No we're not. On a daily basis I see examples of how we're not.

We're just people with all of the flaws. I like our ideas better. That's it. But we're shitty, too. And without reflecting on that to any meaningful degree, things don't change. When everything becomes a justification of "How can I justify being shitty today?" we're just doing the same shit society has been doing for thousands of years.

We're not so evolved, no matter what monologue of denial is happening in that mirror every morning.

maxrandb

(15,566 posts)
10. But society has to have norms
Sun Aug 28, 2022, 11:52 AM
Aug 2022

Last edited Sun Aug 28, 2022, 01:56 PM - Edit history (1)

I served almost 30 years in the Navy. I have no more honor, courage or commitment than anyone else, but we had standards.

It used to make me cringe when I heard the hero-worshiping of the military. I know the people they were talking about, and quite a few I wouldn't leave alone with my dog, let alone my children.

But, and here's the point. It didn't matter whether my Shipmates did the right thing because of some adherence to honor, courage, integrity and virtue, or because they didn't want to shame their mothers.

What mattered is that they did the right thing.

Donnie Dipshit has not only removed honor, courage and integrity as motivating factors, he's also removed shame

Ponietz

(3,177 posts)
9. When many say the 48 Laws of Power is the most important book
Sun Aug 28, 2022, 11:45 AM
Aug 2022

Last edited Tue Oct 17, 2023, 02:09 PM - Edit history (1)

they’ve ever read, we’re witnessing devolution in real time. It was published in 2000. Machiavellianism spawned neoliberalism and both prioritize power while ignoring everything that makes human existence meaningful.

Another idea I stumbled upon yesterday is the concept of psychopolitics. Asimov published his first Foundation novel in 1942. In them, the science of psychohistory has reached an apex. He was prescient in seeing that psychology has a profound impact on the traditional scientific disciplines.

Then, in the early 50’s L. Ron Hubbard (Scientology) published a forgery on brain washing and psychopolitics, attributing it to Beria of the Soviet Secret police. It was only considered black propaganda, then, but the traitor caucus seems to have adopted its strategies.

Here is the opening of Hubbard’s forgery:

An Address by Lavrent Pavlovich Beria
American students at the Lenin University, I welcome your attendance at these classes on Psychopolitics. Psychopolitics is an important if less known division of Geopolitics. It is less known because it must necessarily deal with highly educated personnel, the very top strata of "mental healing."
By psychopolitics our chief goals are effectively carried forward. To produce a maximum of chaos in the culture of the enemy is our first most important step. Our fruits are grown in chaos, distrust, economic depression, and scientific turmoil. At last a weary populace can seek peace only in our offered Communist State, at last only communism can resolve the problems of the masses.


Our unprotected online personal data and rogue corporations like Meta make it EXTEMEMELY EASY to drive wedges into our psyches.

Korean-born and German Philosopher Byung-Chul Han outlined many salient aspects in his 2017 book: [link:https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/dec/30/psychopolitics-neolberalism-new-technologies-byung-chul-han-review

So it’s truly ironic that psychopolitics, from a fraudulent inception, could be the most important academic discipline today. Free people must know and understand it to remain free.

Snackshack

(2,541 posts)
18. True.
Sun Aug 28, 2022, 02:04 PM
Aug 2022

It really is amazing just how much we rely on a person to be basically a good person and follow past precedents. DT showed just how misguided that is. Congress needs to codify a lot of things if there is ever a chance to do so.

Being President was not about that $$$. Someone who ran for the office did so out of a sense of loyalty and service to our country because they certainly knew being President was the way to go if one wanted to be rich. That is all changed. DT showed just how far you can go when one willfully ignores precedent and will of the voters. I read that L. Boebert claimed she has made $41 million since becoming a Representative, how TF does that happen…the Citizens United verdict the GOP SCOTUS gave us is how. Citizens United needs to repealed and all $$$ for campaigning needs to be publicly funded.

moondust

(20,109 posts)
19. "Officer, the light was green."
Sun Aug 28, 2022, 03:25 PM
Aug 2022

"No it wasn't. The light was red and you drove through it anyway, ran into that guy and killed him."

"But officer, I swear it was green and that guy pulled out in front of me. Just ask my wife over there, the one wearing the red hat."


Where does it end?

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