you know what would be great? passports

[mopinko]

Last edited Tue Aug 30, 2022, 09:54 AM - Edit history (1)

so, i'm entitled to an irish passport, but have yet to get my butt in gear and do it, cuz my mom doesnt have a birth cert and i have to chase down her baptismal cert, and and.

i have my ancestry dna kit here, and i'm thinking for the umpteenth time- if only ireland would step into the 21st century, and take dna results, mine being as irish as it gets, wouldnt all her sons and daughter who want to come home, come home?
and it occurs to me- what if all governments did that? what if people brought here as slaves could get dual citizenship w their country of origin?
how many people down under dont know where the ship that brought their ancestors came from?
how about all the people fathered by soldiers in time of war?

would that just make this world a smaller, more connected place?

eta- this is MY song-

[doc03]

1. I have about 10 countries to chose from

[mopinko]

6. well, i think it would be fine to confine it to ppl who were refugees.

the 2 gen thing is basically a statute of limitation to a legal claim. but there is not limit on crimes against humanity.
and obviously would not be mandatory.

[panader0]

2. I'm mostly Irish (ancestors from Cork), but too poor to get there.

[mopinko]

7. love that song. on my set list.

[mopinko]

8. oh man. thx for that. he's so young!!

and it looks like he still enjoyed doing the tune. lol.
he looks great.

[mopinko]

12. also fun fact-

a couple of the guys in the band have a hook up for cruise ship gigs. i could take a paid vacation.

[rubbersole]

15. My "nickname" is Corky...

All direct ancestors are from county Cork. Irish as Patty's Pig... (Murphey, Condon) would love to visit one day.

[mopinko]

27. it's rly not that expensive.

you can get plane tickets on sale for under $1k. there's cheap packages, too.

[rubbersole]

31. Thanks mopinko!

Bucket list for sure.

[SharonClark]

3. "Come home"?

Have you lived in Ireland?

[rubbersole]

4. If you asked the Irish about an influx of Yanks....

...probably wouldn't like the response. Just sayin'.

[mopinko]

5. oh, i'm aware. very aware.

my ex married a woman from donnybrook. i wont go til i have my passport.
but here's the thing- i know my history, i know the songs, i know the lore.
i'm not saying i'll be given a parade, but i think i'll be accepted. i have a pretty illustrious ancestor, too. i'll bring my checkbook.
i have cousins over there, too. i'm newly a singer in an irish band here. i think they'll like to hear me sing at the least.
and tho i'm 2nd american irish, another arm of the family i am 5th gen chicago irish, and that counts. we dont call it the 5th province for nothing. we were west side irish, at least 50 1st degree relative in a 1 mi radius. all that, and my dna is still 93% irish.
i'm irish enough.

[mopinko]

9. no but i have cousin over there.

we're like doppelgängers. lives in donegal. think i have a pretty good clue.

[Narraback]

10. You can order certs online.

Here is a link.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/registrar_birth_marr_death.html#:~:text=You%20can%20apply%20for%20a%20certificate%20or%20copy%20of%20a,the%20application%20form%20(pdf).

You will need some information such as place of birth, Town land name, and correct birth name.

Good luck

[mopinko]

11. thanks. i kinda knew that, but wasnt sure if it was completely paperless.

i do need to get off my butt.

[Narraback]

13. Good luck!

NA

[kskiska]

14. I thought Irish citizenship only applied

if your grandparents were from there. I had great-grandparents from there.

[mopinko]

16. correct. i have 1 on each side that came on the coffin ships.

that's about a limitation on the evidence chain, tho.
people have been forced out of ireland for hundreds of years. millions who've never been there think of it as home.
and i'm sure people from every country who've been forced out feel the same.

[LeftInTX]

29. Since your mom was born here and does not have a birth certificate, you will probably need more

documents

As you stated: Her baptismal cert.

Her parents' records from Ireland and here etc.

Possible census records connecting your mother to her parents

Their death certificates, if she has signed any of them etc.
Or their wills etc.
Any legal records connecting her to them..

If your mother has a death certificate, it will also come in handy.

[mopinko]

32. ty. yeah, she got to visit when she retired.

i dont think she knew she could have had an irish passport as easily as her u.s.
i know the church she was baptized, but it's long closed. these days it's an online request, but you used to have to write a letter to the diocese.
but lots of census records. ty.

i want to see what the cemetery has. the 1st 2 of that gen turned out to be buried about a mile from my house, in a beautiful old cemetery right on lake mich. i'm hoping i can have my ashes planting w them. they have a pretty big plot.
walked, biked, ate lunch in my car there many, many times. also didnt notice it was all blinkin irishmen til i went looking for them. just the right distance for a second line, too.
i'm trying to get the last link back, and i'm sure they have copies of what i need. since it's a catholic cemetery, they may have access to other records i need/want.

this all is a lot of fun.

[panader0]

17. Mary Kearns from County Cork.

I'd love to visit on the cheap, get stewed in a village pub, and come back, as my home is here.

[mopinko]

33. i've seen some pretty cheap packages.

my sister's took a cruise over. not sure what they paid, but they're all cheapskates. lol.

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. Read up on what ancestry DNA tests mean

If you think your prove you're "Irish", you're wrong. If you think that DNA can show that every single ancestor of an African American came from one present-day country, you're wrong.

[mopinko]

19. oh, i'm aware of the limits.

but they have tons and tons of data on ireland, and can likely point me to specific areas for specific ancestors. they place my cousins in the midlands, but most ppl didnt start out in the midlands, they fled there. but i'm told they just did a big upgrade to their mapping.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. I think you're trusting the company far too much

if you believe they can "point you to specific areas". They can say that it would be believable if you had ancestors from such-and-such an area. Ask again in a few years, and they'll change your results a bit (sorry, "upgrade their mapping&quot . Obviously, the Irish (or any other) government would be grossly irresponsible to base policy on this finger-in-the-air stuff.

[mopinko]

22. just to back up the paper trail.

i do have 1 specific link i'm trying to make.
but i understand it links to public trees. not that i trust those either. it's shaky data, but it's provable. it's the connection of the old and the new.
i'll have lots of hints. i'll take them for nothing more.

and again- 93% irish, not by them, but by 23/me and myheritage. the rest is viking and neanderthal. so...
have a sister and a couple cousins on there already, tho. have an adopted cousin who would like to figure out her link, too. good geek fun for me.

i would assume a high enough bar that the tech is adequate. and the bigger the data base, the better the accuracy. that's what they say is happening, and i have no reason to think otherwise.

[DFW]

21. Let's see, who would I ask?

Russia? Nope.
Poland? Not that either.
Anyone know the address of the embassy of the Hapsburg Empire?

[mopinko]

23. lol.

i'm not saying somewhere to move. just another way to show we're all 1 race.

[mopinko]

24. an idea from fb

also posted there- for those of you saying you are mutts, there could be an international mutt's passport. i'm sure someone could come up w a better term. not my sweet spot. lol.

[SharonClark]

25. Passports are

"an official document issued by a government, certifying the holder's identity and citizenship and entitling them to travel under its protection to and from foreign countries."

You seem to be a dreamer and romantic based on your love of all things Irish.
I can imagine how great you'll feel when you get your Irish passport and have travelled to Ireland.

[mopinko]

26. hopeless dreamer.

caught it from my da.

[BlackSkimmer]

28. People whose ancestors came here as slaves will have a hard time figuring out what present day

country equates to the region where they originated.

African countries have changed tremendously over the centuries…boundaries etc., never mind the names.

[mopinko]

30. yeah, it will be complex.

esp since, unlike the irish and other's, they didnt live in enclaves of their countrymen when they got here.
5 gen on 1 side, but still all irish. they dont call chicago the 5th province for nothing. sort of accounts for how irish i feel. i had clan. i was born in exile in the burbs, so they werent all around me all the time, but i have fond, fond memories of visiting my aunts and uncles and cousins in the brick 1 flats on the edge of the city, and a couple big houses over the line in oak park.
they did their darndest to be american, and raise americans. it might have worked, but my da let me follow him around the garden from the time i could walk.

[róisín_dubh]

34. I'm third generation Irish on my dad's side

I'd sell a kidney for an Irish passport. It would negate needing a visa to live in England and Irish passports are more valuable than a UK passport anyway.
But so far, the Irish government is resisting any calls to allow for 3rd generation applications, unless you have some very specific set of circumstances.

[mopinko]

35. yeah, my ex is there now. he married a woman from donnybrook.

he's been several times, for weddings and funerals, but this was a tourist visit.
i asked if they're looking at property. they have a sweet little bnb in mich.
he said not rly, but when i get mine, our kids could live over there for 2 yrs, she should be good. the youngest esp wants to go. still mad i didnt get it done in 16.

[róisín_dubh]

36. Had my dad been born in '56 instead of '53...

I could have registered his birth and then mine.
But because he was born in 1953, I can't. Soooo stupid. I still may give it a go at some point, as I have all the documentation (or know where to get it from); it would make my life a lot easier.

[mopinko]

37. i was born in 54. am i screwed?

this is the 1st i've heard of this.

[mopinko]

38. i tried to find out if either of my folks' births had been registered.

i dont have any reason to think it was done. for them, there would be no reason. someone would have had to be thinking about grands, and i dont know if it was even a thing that the refugees knew they could do.
i called the consulate here and asked them to check, but they just didnt seem to understand the question.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

39. Lol how would giving people papers "based" on their genes bring people together

[mopinko]

41. i think just knowing where you came from does that.

and i think going back, finding your ancestors, finding bigger family, it all makes us more connected.
make's the world a little smaller.
that's how.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

42. People have a lot of different ideas about what it means to "come from" someplace.

Thinking that state-issued papers based on sketchy blood science will bring people together is a pretty narrow view of the world, I think.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

40. Here's a compendium of websites for anyone interested in

finding who their Irish ancestors were. If you have already had your DNA analyzed by Ancestry, 23andMe, FTDNA, etc, you can find many of your cousins by uploading your genomic data to Gedmatch:
https://www.gedmatch.com/

Sites for research:

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/

https://www.rootsireland.ie/

https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp

https://www.nli.ie/en/parish-register.aspx

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

https://www.irishorigenes.com/surnames-database

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-l21/about

For (non-transgender) men, I recommend taking a YDNA test. A YDNA test can determine your Y haplogroup. The primary Y haplogroup for Native Irish men is R1B L21. Subgroups of L21 can often indicate where your male Irish ancestors came from.

For instance, Haplogroups R1B>L21>L226 and R1B>L21>4466 are subclades of L21, and are considered South Irish male Haplogroups, mostly Munster Province.

(Non transgender) men can have their YDNA tested here: https://www.yseq.net

Below is some good info and 2 excellent studies on the unique ancestral composition and ancient migration of Native Irish folk. The men in my family are haplogroup L21, and are related the Rathlin Ireland Bronze Age men whose YDNA and autosomal genomes have been sequenced. My Irish ancestors are primarily from Counties Galway, Clare, and Kerry, and our male line has owned a small farm in Galway since at least 1800.

Ancient Ireland’s Y and Mitochondrial DNA – Do You Match???

https://dna-explained.com/2020/11/03/ancient-irelands-y-and-mitochondrial-dna-do-you-match/

Neolithic and Bronze Age migration to Ireland and establishment of the insular Atlantic genome

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1518445113

The Irish DNA Atlas: Revealing Fine-Scale Population Structure and History within Ireland

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17124-4

Happy hunting!