Some recent threads got me thinking...

[Caliman73]

There have been threads today about the unveiling of the portraits of the Obama's. The statements that Memet Oz has made in the past and in his campaign against Fetterman. The speech that President Biden gave last week, and Trump's re-emergence on the campaign trail.

Now, I realize that I have a big bias, but I wanted to say this and put it out there to DU for discussion. President Obama is still, in my opinion, one of the best orators, both prepared, and off the cuff, in the last 60 years. In looking at the various people who speak for the Democratic Party, people like President Obama, President Biden (even with his occasional gaffes), Pete Buttigieg, Jen Psaki, Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice, etc...

On the Republican side, I know that Ronald Reagan was known as "the Great Communicator", but I think about Republicans and think who among the current crop, would even compare to the people I mentioned above. Trump is a carnival baker but his speech, tone, and cadence are grating (at least to me).

2 questions: 1. Who on the Conservative side, would you say, is a good speaker/orator? 2. Given that we seem to have better speakers, how is it that Conservative messaging seems more prevalent?

[luv2fly]

1. Perhaps overly simplistic but maybe not

"Given that we seem to have better speakers, how is it that Conservative messaging seems more prevalent?"

Corporate media owned by billionaires who love their money and don't give a rat's ass about people.

[Caliman73]

9. Likely a good general answer.

I do think the idea of more money and less taxes has a great deal of influence over the types of media coverage and messaging that is at very least, "emphasized". One of the reasons why even radical fringes of right wing politics are given more coverage than far left messaging. Right wingers may want to create an "ethnostate" but it would be a Capitalist ethnostate. Left wingers (and I mean the far left wing) wants to dismantle capitalism. Liberals and Progressives want to distribute the fruits of the economy more equitably and that would mean higher taxes and less impunity from the wealthy, which is not popular with people who own media companies.

[Mr.Bill]

2. To answer your second question,

it's not a matter of who is the better speaker, It's a matter of how mwny people hear it. And that is up to a press that is seeking ratings. Make no mistake about it, when it comes to ratings, the TV press is madly in love with Donald Trump, no matter what network it is.

[Caliman73]

11. Fair point.

You can be the best speaker, but if nobody, or very few people hear you speak, that and a dollar, will buy you a candy bar.

There have been studies done that show that conservative voices get much more media time than liberal/progressive voices. It doesn't matter who is in power politically. When Democrats are in power, "the minority voice needs to be heard". When Republicans are in power, "well, Republicans were voted into power so they need to be heard". Funny how that works...

[WarGamer]

3. "No Drama Obama"

No matter what was happening... he always made us feel that everything would be OK.

[Tommy Carcetti]

4. On the Democratic side, I think perhaps the very best is Adam Schiff.

[Samrob]

7. I go with Schiff and then Jamie. nt

[Walleye]

5. Liz Cheney? She's a Republican non grata

[Caliman73]

10. Cheney has definitely shown some aptitude.

She definitely shined during the January 6th Committee hearings. Like you said however, while I guess it wasn't her oratory as much as her position on that one issue, that pushed her out of the Party.

[CrispyQ]

6. I can't stand the man, but Chris Christie is pretty articulate. -nt

[Caliman73]

13. Christie's political aspirations are the victim of time and his own stupidity.

I think you are right. Christie can turn a good phrase. He is Trump without the sociopathy and lower IQ. He could be mean but he could also show compassion and understanding of the situation.

Christie had a good chance in 2016 if Trump hadn't burst onto the scene. At this point, I don't think a politician like Christie, with his style, would work in the Party as it is. He is not hateful enough and while his language can be strong, he isn't a vile sociopath like Trump so at a certain point, if he tried to act like one, it would not be genuine.

I think DeSantis has the vile scumbag vote locked up for now, if Trump falls from power, though DeSantis is not a very good speaker in my opinion.

[CrispyQ]

18. You're right, time has passed for Christie & that he's not mean enough for todays repub party.

Agree about DeSantis. He's been practicing Trump's hand/arm movements & delivery methods, but yes, he's still a dull speaker. But he makes up for that in meanness. The whole wretched party tries to out-mean each other. Deplorables, for sure.

[allegorical oracle]

8. Intriguing question...have scoured my brain, which goes back a long way, and can't think of any Rs

who were outstanding speakers. Never liked much of what he said, but Reagan was prolly the best they've been able to drum up.

Trump is nothing more than a venal snake oil salesman. People have been falling for grifters' sales pitches since time began. He's also a would-be actor, and has cultivated his pitch to engage people. Most people speak in an ordinary way; he purposely makes outrageous, cynical, insulting statements that draw attention. Attention attracts audiences, which draws media. Plus, the media coverage amplifies everything he says because they know their viewers enjoy his brash, cruel skewering.

For people with brains, his inane, lying shtick has grown predictable -- but his base still believes that he's sticking it to the people and institutions they dislike.

[Caliman73]

12. Good points.

For Democrats, in the modern era, LBJ was the closest thing we had to Trump speaking strictly from the "vulgar and coarse" style perspective. LBJ was known to be hot tempered and foul mouthed. However, there was NO DOUBT, that the man was intelligent, and understood the issues of the time in a way that Trump never would or could. When LBJ wanted to, he could deliver a speech, or speak extemporaneously about a topic with the best of them.

I think you are spot on about Trump's followers. The cruelty against their perceived enemies, is definitely a selling point for following Trump, even though those of us who pay attention, know that he despises his own base as much as he does the targets of his hate speech.

[Mister Ed]

14. Answer to Question 2: Rush "Wormtounge" Limbaugh was a very effective orator.

The damage done by his deceit and his persuasive abilities is incalculable.

[FakeNoose]

16. It's to our very great relief that Limbaugh had no interest in running for office

If he had, we'd already be living in a nightmare "Fourth Reich." But it's better to never speak of such things.

[Hortensis]

15. On the Republican side for GREAT orators, tRump! Sarah Palin next runner-up,

but she's both past her sell-by age and considered an inferior product by her market, poor female.

Since no "great leaders" are currently threatening to displace tRump, I'd have to google for who professional observers say are "good orators." No doubt they have plenty. (Liz Cheney's secret, though, was being given a giant platform to speak important truths to people who tuned in to listen (most didn't). Then she failed to talk people into voting for her by a huge margin.)

On the Democratic side, our party doesn't seem to choose for leaders whose speeches thrill and excite crowds to great enthusiasm. We also have lots of good orators, but like Beto, say, they're good because they combine sufficient talent and charisma with good messages worth listening to.

When Senator Sanders ran populist campaigns on the Democratic ticket, enthusiasts poured out to see him and cheer everything he said -- he was a great orator, not merely good. So we did technically have him, but he was a temporary exception.

But this drawing of different audiences begs a question:

Maybe how good (or great) an orator is, and how much impact speaking can have, depend less on quality of message and even talent for public speaking than the kind of audience being orated to and the kind of orator and oration?

[Brainfodder]

17. The Republicans, not sure they do anything but what they are told. THINKING? NAH!

In other words, down from the top, and Ted Cruz level aint top, just doing what they are told to do.

Like a cult some might say!