Fox News and Conservative media have done a lot more damage to our country than I thought

[ram2008]

I just got back from a family dinner and words cannot describe how let down I was by the things I heard my family members saying. Coming from educated people it blew my mind.

First of all, these are people who don't really follow politics at all but would rather discuss sports, the Kardashians, or how their kid scored a goal in soccer. They don't really identify with either party, have a narrow grasp of the issues, and are pretty much what you would call the "undecided independents" in the election. But on the off chance they wander into a voting booth, it truly scares me how easy it is for these people to be manipulated.

So... dinner happens.. and the first shots are fired from my cousin : "Have you guys seen the Obama 2016 movie... just saw it last night, it's so scary, we can't let Obama win again!"

My other cousins boyfriend chimes in: "Yeah my dad says Obama's going to destroy this country!" Then he goes on about Obama's scary past connections, Ayers, Wright etc.

At this point I'm trying to keep my composure but I wasn't having any of it "Yeah I've seen that crap documentary its a propaganda peice that is all lies written by a conservative who wants Obama to lose the election, it's devoid of facts and is full of distortions and exaggeration"

Then my aunt chimes in and makes it a 3 on 1 "These are real FACTS! It's IN the movie, didn't you see?! ANSWER THIS THEN, WHY IS OBAMA CUTTING THE MILITARY! WHY IS HE DOING THAT, WHY!!" She becomes unhinged and starts yelling that thinking shes made a point.

The other cousin chimes in too saying " yeah in the video they showed what happens if Obama wins and they showed a map of the United States of Iran.. that's why!"

I then explain to her that we spend more on our military than almost every country combined and that in order to reduce the debt that she was complaining about two seconds ago military spending has to be cut. A startled look comes upon her face as if its the first time she actually heard a fact thrown at her to counter her little knowledge. She thought about it for a few seconds, then says.. you're right actually, I never thought of that and did not speak for a few minutes and had an embarrassed look on her face.

Next my other aunt (who is a school teacher) starts going off on WHERE IS THE GAS? (we're in NY), WHY ISNT THERE ANY OF IT, WHAT"S OBAMA DOING? I then explained to her that how demand was very high because people are on the verge of panic and since power was knocked out in half of our state it's pretty much impossible to keep up. She then goes "Yeah I understand supply and demand i'm not a dummy!" Then she again repeats "yeah but WHY can't he get it here? Why!?" I literally had just explained it to her and she refused to hear the answer and just kept asking why for no reason. I was shocked what I thought to be an intelligent woman.

Then two seconds later her husband comes in, now this is a 5 on 1: "It's because Obama hates America, he just does" I then inform him that Obama can't hate America because he killed our #1 enemy. Then he goes" Yeah well Bush gave a standing order to kill OBL, Obama didn't do that" I can hardly take it anymore and raise my voice "Yeah but Bush didn't get OBL did he?! It happened under Obama, so much for him not loving his country, too bad Bush couldn't do it!" He also has nothing to respond with and tries to change the subject to something he actually knows about like the Giants.


Anyway this whole post probably isn't that coherent but I had to get it off my chest because it just shocked me and I've drank a little bit too much wine. They have been manipulated by fear for so long that they can't tell fact from fiction and can't discuss anything without going to conspiracy talking points. These are good people too... they're not the tea types, not racists.. and that's what gets me.. they fall so easily for GOP talking points. When real facts are thrown in their face they don't know how to react. It's absolutely nuts that these adults are so easily fooled.. and it is all based on fear propagated by FauxNews and crew, it disgusts me.

Obama needs to WIN Against these lies and distortions. Please GOTV ON TUESDAY, send a message to Faux and crew that all their fear mongering and misleading will not prevail in the end.

[The Wielding Truth]

1. It all goes back to the Fairness Doctrine that the Republicons cut out.

It let fiction and propaganda go out to the public as fact, as news. This is what confuses the low info American. It is irresponsible of the FCC to have given it up and it is our charge to restore it. All democracies need a well informed public.

[left on green only]

8. Back when it was being cut out.......

....I remember being of the opinion that senile Ronnie Raygun was behind it. That was after he had already decimated the National Endowment for the Arts. As a performing arts junkie, I was beside myself. I think that the Fairness Doctrine is every bit as important as Citizens United and Row v Wade. They got 2 out of 3, but perhaps in the next four years we can change it back again. I just wish there was a chance of winning the House back again.

[freshwest]

17. Gosh, I remember the FCC 'hearings' when we brought up all the evidence that it was wrong.

That was during the Bush administration and Michael Powell had exclaimed, 'The free market is my god!' And they didn't take any of the thousands of pieces of testimony into account.

What happened was exactly what the FCC regulations were designed to prevent, only one, authoritarian voice becoming dominant as happened before WW2 in parts of Europe.

Obama tried to change some of it but the media and Congress pitched a fit. So it's going to take a lot more people involved to turn this back. New people appointed, etc.

[ananda]

40. And by Ronald Reagan specifically when he vetoed Congress' attempt to recodify it.

nt

[Volaris]

56. Yep. And the GOP will HELP YOU get that done,

all you have to do is convince their idiots that it's re-instatement is the only way to counter the effect of the Evil, Liberal Media.
You watch, they are so fucking stupid they will call their Congressman.
If you were to tell them that the through-and-through shot would hit a Liberal, they would shoot themselves in the head, that's how much they hate us. Their stupid is their weakness. Con's use that to their advantage, we need to start using it for OURS.

[Binders Keepers]

2. This post would be hilarious if it wasn't so frightening.

It sounds like a scene from "All in the Family," 40 years on.

[left on green only]

3. When I first began to become aware of hate radio......

........I could not believe that anyone would ever take it seriously. But then gradually, little by little, I began to become aware of the effect that it was having upon our society. But there was one thing in common among all of the people who I observed to be caught up in it. None of them appeared to be very intellectually gifted, or even just common.

I was reading in another thread where someone who wrote as if they knew from what they were speaking, wrote that most people only have an IQ between 95 and 105. That's pretty scary, to be sure. But I am sure that no one of this board has anything to worry about.

[HiPointDem]

22. it's nothing to do with intelligence or IQ.

[marions ghost]

43. Right, thank you

See my post 42

Intelligence helps, perhaps--but it's not the definitive difference.

[jwhitesj]

23. It's actually very easy to figure out

IQ is a normal distribution curve with mean 100 and Standard deviation of 16.

z=(x-mean)/sd

z(95) = (95-100)/sd =-.3125
z(105) - (105-100)sd=.3125

p(IQ between 95 and 105) = p(x<105) - p(x<95)

from z table
P(x<105)=.6217
p(x<95)=.3783

.6217-.3783=.2434 apx 24% of people have an IQ between 95 and 105

That's not most, but a good portion of people.

50% of all people have an IQ that is between + or - .67 standard deviations from the mean that puts Interquartile range of IQ between 89 and 111

[marions ghost]

42. When my uncle, an intelligent, highly respected doctor

began listening to Rush--and encouraged his family to do that--

I KNEW at that moment we were sunk.

And that was quite awhile ago--maybe 15 years ago.

You have to realize there ARE intelligent people who have drunk the koolaid.

I have a highly intelligent friend, a writer, who does not "believe in" Global Warming.

[Mariana]

47. I don't think susceptibility to propaganda is related to IQ.

An awful lot of us know intelligent, educated people who buy into this bullshit. It has to be more complicated than that.

[left on green only]

48. I want to embrace your hypothesis....

.....but then I keep asking myself the question, "what is it then that causes people to believe what is readily identified as illogical, irrational and untruthful to our way of thinking?" The only thing I can come up with is that there exists somewhere a verifiable alternative reality; which I admit is something I don't really believe in anyway.

[Blanks]

53. A sense of belonging.

They know someone that they like or respect that listens to it. They don't want to fight with that person; so they immitate their behavior.

Nothing brings people together faster than a common enemy and people feel a need to connect. They probably get too far down the path before they realize what has happened.

[left on green only]

57. Good point! And something that I hadn't considered.....

......You may have already noticed that I didn't get very far in my study of sociology; either in the classroom, or at the cotillion.

What you have said in some ways reminds me of that guy with the pathetic attempt to grow a beard like Tim Geitner's (oh yeah, his name is Nrover Gorquest). He has intimidated most of the feeble minded, repuke legislators into signing his good ol' boy pledge, so they can all be in his club, and not have to worry about re-election.

[eqfan592]

4. Sounds like a lot of family get-togethers of mine.

Tho I haven't been to one in three years now because we relocated to a different state. Going back this Christmas and it should be interesting, as the crazy bug they all have had only gotten worse over the years. Several of them are even in the "secret Muslim" camp now......

[pointsoflight]

5. They are largely to blame for the divisiveness in this country.

Fox and conservative TV/radio have demonized Obama and other democrats, making them into something they're not. There will always be legitimate political differences that people will be passionate about. But conservatives get so upset and unhinged about Obama because they've been so thoroughly misinformed about him, his beliefs, and his intents. This kind of vitriol wouldn't exist to nearly the same extent if there wasn't such a concerted campaign of lying, distortion, and fear mongering.

[KT2000]

6. Massive brainwashing

is going on. It is effective and successful at changing the "character" of this country.

[Democratopia]

10. My wife's family are just the same. It is very difficult to deal with it.

They have been exposed to a far right media that day after day after day tells them to be afraid, afraid of everything that Democrats represent. Afraid Obama is an enemy of the state, afraid our freedoms are being taken away, for example, heathcare, afraid of socialism, for example tax increases for the rich. Same propaganda methods used in Nazi Germany. There is no reasoning. They need no facts. It is all based on fear and prejudice.

[marions ghost]

44. "same propaganda methods used in Nazi Germany."

Yep first you identify The Other (Jews, Libruls) and then you wage a relentless campaign of hate and misinformation against that group, solidifying your base. Pretty simple. Amazing that it is so easy to do.

[Cha]

7. bush said bin laden didn't interest him.. and the neoCons left Afghanistan to Bomb Iraq

that had nothing to do with 9/11. Obama promised in his campaign he would get bin laden..it was a priority of his. Tell them about the dinesh de souza guy who made the 2016 movie..he got fired from his job as the head of the college for getting busted for sleeping with his girlfriend while married. typical rw "family values" shit.

Your OP reads like a horror story to me and a very bad nightmare, ram. Thanks for trying to educate the brainwashed. I know it's tragic what fox & idiots are doing to this country. It's a Miracle we have as many Unbrainwashed citizens as we do.

[ram2008]

9. It's truly sad..

This whole time I thought Obama was a shoo in because politically all his positions are sane and make sense. After that discussion with family members who are educated, normally apolitical, and generally great kind people, start spouting off GOP talking points out of fear and being uninformed, it left be shocked and gave me a reality check.

Honestly if these people believe that kind of stuff, it shocks me that Obama is actually winning. It's not a lost cause though, if you gently give feed them some facts they can be persuaded into voting in their best interest. I think I may have convinced my one aunt that what she heard on that documentary was bullshit and Obama is a better choice.

[Initech]

11. Next time point out that our military is 3x larger than the rest of the world combined.

And that we spend TRILLIONS every year on the military and it's what is causing our national debt to balloon to the point that it is now, cutting even 1/10th of our defense budget is a good thing.

[ErikJ]

13. Yes,and we TRIPLED DEFENSE SPENDING Since 1997!

We spend $2 billion a WEEK in Afghanistan-FOR WHAT?

[Initech]

46. I've been asking that question since day one!

[grasswire]

14. could also ask if they want to give up social security to pay for military.

[snot]

12. Most Americans are immersed 24/7 in the R-wing propaganda propagated by the media at the behest

of the owners of the media, i.e., 6 multinational corps.

They are indeed thoroughly brain-washed. This is why Dem pols' and others' neglect re- media consolidation is so puzzling, frustrating.

[eShirl]

15. see if you can lock out FauxNooz on their TV

[-LOKI -BAD FOR YA]

16. thanks great post n\t

[countmyvote4real]

18. That's why I had to un-friend my brother from FB.

bubbles, bubbles, bubbles.

[Hulk]

19. Sedition in media...

I'm all for having different points of view. I listen to it all. A good friend/teacher of mine one time told me he reads THREE newspapers in Mexico everyday...one from the right, one from the left, and one from a quasi-neutral position. That way, he can make up his own mind what to believe.

We have lazy, gullible and racist folks in this country that will have none of that "heavy thinking". They like their information in spoon size bites; nice and simple and easy to digest....called "talking points". They don't really care for this scary black man in the White House, and they have been good 'church going people" all their lives. Problem is, most of the churches today are political too. They base it all on "gays, abortion, and taxes". Give us our tax breaks, keep the gays out of the families, and stop killing those damn embryos, I mean "babies".

Now, you add that all together and you come up with "fox-propaganda network"...only too happy to spoon feed their poison to these low-information, lazy but religious fools. My family is full of them. Talked with my older sister tonight, and she had been drinking - she's an alcoholic now - and before she parts with her slurring and blabbering on about other matters, she says she'll sure be glad when that damned Obama is out of the White House. I told her he isn't going to be, and she had better get used to it. She wanted to argue it, and I simply told her I'd bet her $10 he'll be re-elected, and I like my money in $5's. We have a bet. I'll collect her money when she's sober, and I'll get the last word in.

Not sure what's going to happen when this election is over. There are an awful lot of angry and scared people on both sides of the spectrum in this election. I fear someone is going to do something awful..but I sure hope not. But thanks to "fox-propaganda network", I wouldn't be one bit surprised if someone, or several someones, try something. He IS going to win. And it's going to be embarrassing to the reich wingers..and they are NOT going to be happy at all.

Sorry for your bad experience. I think I would have gotten up and left. Shame on them. You didn't push your political views on them..and there is an old family saying, NEVER talk about politics or religion when you get together. Guess it's a hard one to avoid today..but we need to if we expect to keep some old friendships in tact.

[Selatius]

20. I think you're beginning to understand the power of corporate propaganda.

I guess they listen to Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh on the radio in addition to watching Fox News?

Low-information voters decide elections in this country, and concerted propaganda campaigns can prove as devastating to a republic as an invasion from a foreign nation.

If you want to know how far right the United States has drifted, you should watch this informative primer entitled "Despotism" on the dangers of fascism. It was published roughly a year after World War 2 ended, a war that took the lives of over 400,000 Americans. That generation tried to warn us:

[KansDem]

34. Thanks for posting this Britannica film

I'm almost certain I saw this clip, many, many years ago. As I watched the film you posted for what I believed was the first time, I suddenly recognized the scene beginning at 6'50" when the teacher is told by the professor that students cannot think for themselves. I remembered thinking at the time how much the scene reminded me of a few teachers I had in the 1960s who didn't respect or understand the inquisitive nature of young adults. They had a kind of "sit down and shut up" attitude when kids questioned authority (also, who could forget the actress's portrayal of the teacher!)

Also, the Pledge recitation at 1'00" was intriguing. Since this film was produced pre-McCarthy, "Under God" had not been added yet.

Thanks, again

[Skittles]

21. I am old enough to remember a time when you could debate a republican

Last edited Mon Nov 5, 2012, 05:07 AM - Edit history (1)

that time has LONG passed - they are so filled with RIDICULOUS LIES that could easily be disproved by researching just a short time on the internet but they don't bother because they WANT to believe this garbage

[Live and Learn]

24. +1 nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

31. well, yes exactly.That's the problem. I remember not long ago talking to a Republican and I went out

of my way to express myself in the most moderate of terms and referred only to dispassionate sources to back up my claims .I made it a point to look for areas where traditional Republican might find some common ground with progressives. But that was casting my pearls before the swine. They told me that they never heard before the things I was saying and that I needed to broaden myself because clearly I was brainwashed by radical leftist. Actually, most of what I said - probably everything I said would have once been fairly mainstream among Republicans. They are now outside of the real world and the real world -even a traditional Republican real world sounds crazy and radical leftist to them.

[Skittles]

54. THAT'S IT, DOUGLAS

you've described the results - I used to try and try to get them to see the light but they're like cult members - aw fuck let's just say it - they ARE cult members

[Vanje]

25. Fox News and talk radio. nt

[Norbert]

26. One of my best friends will not email me

We've been exchanging emails for many years. He went from being a anti-Dubya conspiracy theorist writing things that even I thought a little too fantastic. Now he is 179 degrees. The birther movement, Sheriff Joe the hero, 2016, Tea Party, Obama the Commie...I could go on and on.

When he kept shooting emails that we MUST vote for Romney because the future of our democracy depends on it and that Obama is a treasonous foreigner that is ruining every fabric of our freedom and is slipping us closer to Communism every day. I pushed back and within a half dozen emails he told me that if I didn't care about the United States and the Constitution vote for the son of a bitch and by the way I'm outta here. I'm not too worried about our friendship. We went through things like this when we were kids and we always come out of it the best of friends and I think this will be no different.

What worries me is it apear we might have dodged a bullet this time. At what point will we run out of luck against the Kochs and Norquists of this world. Scary thought indeed.

[fasttense]

27. Just remember, Nate Silver is giving Obama an 86.3% chance of winning

and Mitt only a 13.7% chance of winning.

In Trade is giving Obama a 66.1% chance of winning to Mitt's 34.1%.

So reight wing propaganda does not necessarily affect everyone who hears it.

Maybe one or two of your relatives will eventually come around. I had a brother who voted for the bushes, believed in trickle down and watched Fox non-stop. He is now the strongest Obama supporter I have ever met.

Some of the smarter ones will eventually come to realize that the RepubliCONS lie, despite the propaganda.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

28. FOX News mainstreamed rightwing radio

Sure, there were always dumb conspiracy theories on the right (Vince Foster), but they were usually confined to the realm of the fat losers who sat around listening to AM radio.

With FOX, this nonsense got deeper penetration, and now the average Republican believes this shit.

All the divisiveness in our country can be traced to FOX. No longer could just disagree with the opposition, now they were made out to be enemies of Amurica who were out to git you.

We haven't seen this kind of demonization get wide play since the days of Joe McCarthy.

[Surya Gayatri]

32. No truer words, AH...

"No longer could (they) just disagree with the opposition, now they were made out to be enemies of Amurica who were out to git you.

We haven't seen this kind of demonization get wide play since the days of Joe McCarthy."

[Surya Gayatri]

29. The family reunion from hell...sounds like a dinner

that could easily take place in my family.

Fortunately, I live thousands of miles away, so such occasions are rare enough.

Just be glad you've discovered DU where you can come to remind yourself that you're not the crazy one!

WELCOME!!

[Granny M]

30. It's a real problem in my family, too.

Especially on my sister's husband's side. In 2008, I wasn't allowed in family gatherings. Can't really blame them, as I am not the most diplomatic of souls. I got very annoyed at my sister when I saw them in September, because she knows my liberal cousins and I love to talk politics, and she deliberately invited some teabagger friends on the night the cousins were getting together. But WE were the ones who were expected not to say anything. The baggers were free to spew freely. There are even a few birthers in that mix. Aarrgghh. I can't stand it.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

33. ‘This Is The World Fox News Has Created’: Rachel Maddow on Interviews with Uninformed Protesters

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rachel-maddow-interviews-uninformed-claims-this-is-the-world-fox-news-has-created/

This has got to be one of the best illustrations of the stunning success the RW media machine has had in brainwashing their victims.

[srichardson]

38. I know sometimes we just have to laugh

at the awesome stupidity of the right. But this is really not funny. When we are at a time in America where facts mean nothing, it is scary. Wednesday will be the icing on the proverbial cake for me. I CANNOT wait to see how people react to four more years of our President. But I already know it will be a short lived euphoria. Fox will go into immediate attack mode and who knows the lies they will spew this time around. My heart goes out to the President's young girls. I truly hope they are sheltered from these attacks on their father. Good thing they have intelligent, honest, REAL parents to teach them what TRUTH really looks like.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

59. The mind-boggling nature of this circumvention of a fact-based universe gives me a massive

headache, and I normally don't get headaches.

I can't wait to see how they explain their predictions of a landslide for Rom-Ry. The only explanation if that nightmare scenario comes to pass would be election theft. Again.

In addition to good parenting, I think those Obama girls have good genes, as well. I think they'll be OK.

[Up2Late]

35. That's sad, but it's not their fault...

...they need to just turn it off, all of it.

Turn off Fox "news"

Turn off RW Talk Radio

And no more reading RW websites, it's all brainwashing.

Back about 10 years ago I worked at a place where the owner played RW talk radio all day and it even started to get to me, and I'm a HARD CORE Democrat. On RW talk radio they just keep repeating the same lies over and over until it starts to sink in, it's really awful.

A lot of people criticize it around here, but what I found work is you turn off ALL TV "news" (even MSNBC) and just get your news from NPR.

NPR is not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot more balanced than any Network or Cable news channel.

[Doctor_J]

50. I can see it around DU

there are a LOT of Fox News and Hate Radio addicts here. It can't help but distort your world view.

[cprise]

36. I may be tempting Godwin's law with this

but I think the comparison is appropriate:

The great majority of Nazis and other "good Germans" who were living and working within their comfort zone / familiar environment were said to be very nice, decent people... a pleasure to be around. Nazi authorities were purposely manipulating the population's perceptions through their emotions (and furiously talking out both sides of their mouths, mollifying people even as they escalated the atrocities). It's one of the tenets of fascism to cultivate order by expunging critical thinking / intellectuals from the general population, and getting them to respond purely on an emotional level.

Sad as it seems, your family are probably ignoring some extremely odd goings on in today's world because it doesn't fit the narrative purveyed by the people they unconsciously identify with (I'm guessing that your family is white Anglo-Saxon, Irish or Italian). And that narrative is given primacy in today's mass media because it meshes with the methods of an unfettered commercial press (corporate marketing and PR are constantly working on us psychologically to be impulsive and avoid discerning real facts so that decisions become more like unthinking reactions).

Also consider that anyone who commutes in a car for long hours each day (a very white, suburban routine) especially in crappy traffic will find at least the tone of the RW talk radio hosts to be appealing (i.e. they're at risk of becoming "roid ragers" because RW radio exploits drivers' general state of frustration in rush hour traffic, turning it into anger directed at scapegoats). Just about the only alternative in most places is NPR, which has the sort of content and presentation that tries to avoid clear messages and emotion.

Lastly, if your family really watches and likes Fox news it may be time to consider that much of what seems "nice" is actually the opposite of good.

All in all, I hope that most of the people reading this thread will agree that we need media reform in this country. They are leading us down a very dark path.

[Scuba]

37. Um, the Prez is not responsible for the distribution of gas. That's the private sector.

[GoCubsGo]

41. Yep. And, these dumbasses need to be reminded of what they were saying in 2008.

Remember when gas was up to $4/gallon when Shit-for-Brains was the President? They insisted that the President does not control gas prices. Next time anyone hears one of them blame gas prices on President Obama, ask them what is different to cause them to change their tune. And, then ask them why the fuck the President would raise gas prices, which would actually HURT him. The stupid. It burns.

[intheflow]

45. Indeed. A huge factor in gas shortage in Sandy's wake is b/c the Port of NY was shut down by Sandy.

Hello? People don't think the main entry point for gas are those gas tankers - one of which ran aground in Staten Island? Geesh, People. Grow some critical thinking skills!

[Doctor_J]

52. Facts mean absolutely nothing to Fox Nation

they live in an alternative reality.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

39. Voluntary reeducation bubbles. nt

[Doctor_J]

49. We may scrape out a win tomorrow

but the root problem isn't going away until We The People rid the country of this disease. Sorry it took you so long to figure this out. If we don't confront these people directly, it is just going to continue to get worse. We're close to turning into Rwanda as it is.

[Baitball Blogger]

51. "These are facts! It's all in the movies!"

Next they're going to be dating geeks who claim to be French models.

[nolabear]

55. What I can't figure is, if Obama was going to destroy America why hasn't he?

I mean, is there an eight year plan or something?

[Mariana]

58. In 2008, they were predicting we wouldn't make it this far.

Plenty of them were saying there would be no 2012 election, among many other ridiculous things. None of it has come to pass, but you won't hear a one of them say they were wrong. RWers only remember what they want to.