Putin's defeat will be a huge blow to the right-wing extremists...

[OneGrassRoot]

Last edited Mon Sep 12, 2022, 09:42 AM - Edit history (3)

and white nationalists (well, same thing) in the US and Europe. Trump and Bannon idolize him and what he stands for. Putin's defeat and demise could be a huge win for democracy in more ways than one, and it's looking increasingly likely that that is what's happening.

I'll embrace that hopeful tidbit this Monday morning.

Slava Ukraini!

EDIT TO ADD: Please see my comment #19 for a Thom Hartmann piece I just received in email which speaks to this and also reflects some of your comments below. I know many dislike him because his show was carried by RT in previous years but I still value his thoughts and insights and find they often reflect my own.

EDIT #2: Adding my comment from below to another DUer to flesh out these thoughts more:

They will eventually regroup but, for the near term, when Putin is gone, it will be a destabilizing force for the Nazis and Nazi sympathizers we've seen increase in numbers over the last 20 years, and especially since 2015.

But there will always be Nazis and sympathizers and, unless humanity can remember that such atrocities can happen anywhere and stamp it out every time they try to rise up, it will be a never-ending battle.

For the near term, I think it will help destabilize this current batch of Nazis though. Especially those at the top (here in the US) like Trump, Flynn, Tucker Carlson and Bannon.

[wishstar]

1. Expect Putin allies to rally around poor Russia as being victimized by evil Ukraine

The Russian propagandists will be doubling down on demonizing and blaming Ukraine even more than we have already seen for atrocities perpetrated by Russian military actions.

Putin entirely controls Russian media and will be spinning notion of heroic noble Putin determined to continue fighting a good war against the "evil Nazis" of Ukraine.

Putin isn't going away anytime soon.

[70sEraVet]

7. Putin may control the media, but people who are sending their young men to fight in Ukraine

will be getting hard to fool, when those young men don't return. I suspect Putin's propaganda campaign won't be any more successful than his war.

[Happy Hoosier]

17. I saw the troll farmers out on Twitter...

But they get MASSIVELY ratioed. No one is buying their BS. Even the "Indian" and "African" trolls are getting pasted.

[TheBlackAdder]

26. I guess they'll start sucking up to Xi, Orban, Un and Erdogan.

[Tommymac]

29. I disagree. He is toast and will not last out the year. I suspect it will be days/weeks not months.

He will be lucky to be able to retire to a nice dacha in the Urals...more likely he will be sleeping quietly 6 feet under ground somewhere soon.

The end is nigh for dear old Vlad.

[kentuck]

2. Their fortunes are tied together.

Good point!

[Pepsidog]

3. Reagan must be turning in his grave.

[oldsoftie]

11. They LOVED Reagan & now support everything he was against. Its crazy.

Of course they also hate Mitt Romney, who has said for over 10 yrs that Russia was the biggest threat to peace.

[Gore1FL]

24. He was there at the beginning of this con.

I suspect he didn't expect these results, but he helped bring this all about.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

44. Yep. People forget how bad Ray-gun was.

All the RW crap he enabled and so many Dems crossed over to support him because he presented that BS nice guy image and was a celebrity. People are so damned gullible.

[Tommymac]

30. Good. The christoFascist movement first gained political influence due to that fucker.

I hope his evil soul feels even more heat seeing the results of his Presidential crime spree.

The foundation for today's troubles was laid by Raygun and his partners in crime HW Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al.

[Pepsidog]

33. Falwell is squirming around in his grave as well considering his son's "family values".

[wnylib]

4. Second verse is dedicated to the Putin-Trump crowd.

[Escurumbele]

10. Waterloo Sunset - The Kinks

[link:

|

[d_r]

27. Waterloo - Abba

[Escurumbele]

38. Fun song, had never heard it...thank you for posting

[Lonestarblue]

5. Zelensky claimed, and rightfully so in my opinion, that Ukraine was fighting for democracy

for the world. They are doing the world a huge favor by weakening Putin and demonstrating that with the right weapons he can be defeated. It isn’t finished by any means, but these latest successes should encourage the NATO countries wavering in their support because of high energy costs to keep supporting Ukraine. And every weapon needed to finish the Russian Army needs to be shipped to Ukraine yesterday. I’m hoping they have been already. And Secretary Blinken seems well tuned in to Ukraine’s needs.

[yardwork]

6. For one thing, the money dried up.

[AllaN01Bear]

22. in my mind puting raided his countrys money so he and his fam play.

[paleotn]

25. Yep. The Russian kleptocracy

Funding source for modern fascism everywhere.

[Escurumbele]

8. I do hope that "genius Putin" is removed from office and Russian troops retreat, BUT...

Let us not forget how crazy Putin is, how narcissistic he is, and as a highly narcissistic personality he lacks the ability to understand about consequences. Let us all hope that he doesn't resort to nuclear bombing of Ukraine just because he needs to save face. That is my fear because as I said, he doesn't understand that actions have consequences.

[Tommymac]

32. If he nukes Ukraine, Russia will become a plain of radioactive glass. Guarenteed.

I believe France and Britain will nuke him before the US has a chance to.


No - the oligarchs will not let him push that button. He may have no appreciation of consequences, but I guarantee those rich asshats do. They want to rule the world, not an underground bunker.

[AllyCat]

43. Good points

[niyad]

9. Slava Ukraini!

[BootinUp]

12. Putin has been instigating these divisions for

the past 10 years.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

40. FOX - Fascist Oligarch eXtremists propaganda network has been doing it for 40 years.

Murdoch, Koch, Adelson, Uihlein, Mercer, Sinclair, et. al.

Libertarian and RWNJ billionaires banded together to poison millions of minds.

The plan: https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/meet-the-economist-behind-the-one-percents-stealth-takeover-of-america

[3Hotdogs]

13. Not to worry. They still have Kimmy in North Korea as a role model.

"Now there's a guy who knows how to get things done. What's that that Jared calls him... a munch or somethin'? He ain't so good lookin' as me so I don't know if he gets to grab as mu ---What da fuck am I thinking? He's got complete control. 'You over there, you're pretty hot (or however they say it in Korea). Get over here while I grab you by the pussy.' And they better well do it like he says.

If I had it like Kimmy, I wouldn't have ta put up with fucks like Mitch or Chris Christie... aw, what da fuck.. Chris is alright. I shouldn't'a listened to Jar-jar and let Chris run the campaign. I would'a still been in the shit-hole White House. Two hundred years and they still don't know how to run that extended stay hotel."

[OneGrassRoot]

16. They'll eventually regroup but I think...

for the near term, when Putin is gone, it will be a destabilizing force for the Nazis and Nazi sympathizers we've seen increase in numbers over the last 20 years, and especially since 2015.

But there will always be Nazis and sympathizers and, unless humanity can remember that such atrocities can happen anywhere and stamp it out every time they try to rise up, it will be a never-ending battle.

For the near term, I think it will help destabilize this current batch of Nazis though. Especially those at the top like Trump, Flynn, Tucker Carlson and Bannon.

[Farmer-Rick]

14. Russian soldiers are dying

How long are the Russian people going to support Putin in his war with this death count? Ukraine says they've killed about 43,000, while NATO says it's 7,000 to 15,000 dead Russian soldiers.

As comparison, about 7,000 American soldiers died in our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

How many of their sons and daughters have to come back in body bags or more likely just disappear into the roving cremation trucks, before the Russian people have had enough? That's the real question. How many Russian soldiers will the Russian people put up with considering this was supposed to be over in a week?

[vercetti2021]

15. It proves what us in the US can and will do if these fascists try anything

We'll stomp them into the dirty like their filthy confederate heroes. This time around their will be no fucking hand shake. You live a traitor you can die as one too. Forgotten and dead.

[Happy Hoosier]

18. It certainly destroys his carefully cultivated image as a strongman.

You can see people like Tucker Carlson are beside themselves about this. Just a little while ago, he was ranting how Putin is actually winning in Ukraine. That aged like milk.

[OneGrassRoot]

19. Just received this Thom Hartmann email:

He is echoing much of what is discussed above.

https://hartmannreport.com/p/what-will-the-collapse-of-neoliberalism?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share

Fascist leaders never survive defeat, and only rarely do their systems survive, lacking a clear and coherent transition of power from one strongman to another. This is thus a moment of maximum danger for President Putin. Whether he will do something terrible and dramatic like trying to start a nuclear war to hang onto power, or is arrested/assassinated, or steps down with the promise of a golden parachute is still unknown.

The way he leaves may well determine whether a new strongman leader emerges who can flip Russia fully into fascism, or whether the people — particularly the Russian generation coming up now that’s wired into the world — will again try Gorbachev’s idea of democracy.

- snip -

The next few years, amidst worldwide crises of climate change and economic instability, will determine the future course of governance worldwide. And the failures of neoliberalism are hitting both Russia and the United States particularly hard.

It’s an extraordinary time to be alive, and a vital time to become an activist on behalf of democracy, wherever you may live.

[EYESORE 9001]

21. That kinda quashes the notion that Thom Hartmann is a tool of RT

I’m really tired of their one-note condemnation and the next time I encounter it, I will engage.

[90-percent]

23. Thom and RT

yeah, thats old and stale. Thom is a national treasure and I'm a loyal and unwavering fan. The RT put down is lemming-like vigilantism.

-90% Jimmy

[Just A Box Of Rain]

35. Malarky

Seven years on the payroll of the state controlled propaganda network, Russia Today, speaks volumes.

Not going to be gaslighted on this one.

[yardwork]

41. Or that the money dried up. /nt

[Vogon_Glory]

20. Putin's defeat would be a serious setback for wing-nutz

Just think of how much money and other resources they’d been getting from Moscow that they wouldn’t have access to anymore.


——

Old Cold Warriors and present-day progressives agree: being a tool of the Kremlin is a Very Bad Thing!

[CrispyQ]

28. It would certainly take the wind out of their sails.

A Putin loss with a Trump arrest would be a bonus.

I've always liked Thom Hartmann, even when RT carried him. His observations are astute, & I think, often spot on.

[ananda]

31. You know, I think we all owe a debt to Ukraine in a way.

This defeat will make it much harder for Russians to
have influence in American politics and economics.

[OneGrassRoot]

34. Absolutely!!!

They really are on the front lines of defending democracy, and defending against the influence of Putin-type corruption.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

36. Defeating Putin will have a the additional positive effect of demoralizing the far-right.

Win-win.

[Initech]

37. Good! The white supremacist / neo Nazi movement needs to die the horrible death it deserves!

And those responsible need to he behind bars!

[Jarqui]

39. Should Putin go down

A key source of GOP funding may go with him

What happens to all the Kompromat he has on the GOP?
I'd just love for the Pee Pee tape to get out. Trump would never live it down.

Putin is very bad news but his replacement could be as bad or worse and carry on his policies.

I'm so proud of the people of Ukraine - I lack the words.
Zelenskyy - obviously a phenomenal, principled leader. One of the greatest.
He had a lot of help but I'm not sure they could have done it without him.
He stood up to Trump. He stood up to Putin. His balls are so big, it's amazing he can walk upright.

It is way, way to early to spike the football.
The Russians are a very dangerous, ruthless adversary.

A point I made to my Republican friend in Florida: you think any of this would have happened if Trump was President? Trump would have helped Putin. Joe Biden deserves some props here. He didn't try to extort Zelenskyy like TFG did. Joe just went about doing his job and once again, did it well.

[UTUSN]

42. K&R