We Owe Matt Gaetz An Apology, Innocent Until Proven Guilty

[SoCalDavidS]

He's still an Asshole, and a despicable human being, but he's not guilty of, nor has he even been accused of having sex with a minor, or engaging in any trafficking of minors.

If you continue to believe otherwise, then you also must subscribe to the belief that our "justice" system is a complete joke, and some special people, are above the law. That's where I'm at, and where I've been since March 2021, when Many here on DU were writing his death warrant.

You can say there wasn't enough evidence, the witnesses were unreliable, and that he's not being charged because a conviction would have been unlikely. But that doesn't matter, all that matters is he's not being charged, nor convicted, meaning he's innocent of all accusations saying otherwise.

[Scrivener7]

1. SMDH.

[USALiberal]

88. ????

[Torchlight]

92. lol ok nt

[USALiberal]

98. LanternWaste, you changed your name!!

[Scrivener7]

105. What? You feel you owe an apology to Gaetz? I know I don't What is this bullshit?

[Walleye]

2. That's OK if he did get away with something, he will do worse next time. And get caught

[dweller]

3. Like hell

I’ll apologize

I can live with myself for it too


✌🏻

[Atticus]

4. My understanding is that the WaPo article is being widely challenged and is considered

likely mistaken.

You are, of course, correct when you say "innocent until proven guiltg", but it is not at all a "done deal" that he is off the hook.

[Jarqui]

5. I've seen some chatter on twitter questioning the validity of the story

For example

Link to tweet

And look at the comments underneath in that thread

[SoCalDavidS]

11. A Tweet From The Handle "Mueller, She Wrote"

Like Mueller deserves some sort of praise. Wasn't he supposed to be "The Savior?"

This so-called investigation has been ongoing since Early 2021. And still nothing.

I believe the Washington Post over some folks on Twitter. Especially since, despite the hopes of many here on DU, there has not been the slightest sign that Gaetz was ever going to be charged.

[sheshe2]

75. Perhaps you should read up on her before you dismiss her, David,

She has had her own podcast since 2017.

As for the Mueller report, we never saw it because Bill Barr, under investigation, hid it from us.

Night.

[SoCalDavidS]

78. Yeah, The Hidden Report. More Evidence Of How Fucked Up Our "justice" System Is

That was about the point I realized that NONE of these Pieces Of Shit would be held accountable or suffer consequences.

So far, I've seen nothing to change that view.

[Demsrule86]

111. So, you take the WP word for it all. Have you read the WP lately? I have subscription and am

considering canceling. I do not enjoy your attacks on what is a Democratic administration.

[sheshe2]

76. Perhaps you should read up on her before you dismiss her, David,

She has had her own podcast since 2017.

As for the Mueller report, we never saw it because Bill Barr, under investigation, hid it from us.

Night.

[Thomas Hurt]

6. He could still be a perv, there just wasn't enough evidence to file or indict.

The way it should be.

[Shellback Squid]

7. missed your sarcasm emoji

[Enter stage left]

8. I'll apologize to Matt when TFG apologizes for denigrating our...

"losers and suckers", handicapped reporters, and all of the women he assaulted.

Until then, FUCK MATT GAETZ & FUCK DONALD TRUMP, & FUCK EVERYONE WHO EVER VOTED FOR EITHER ONE OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CloudWatcher]

9. Well there is the little matter of his requesting a pardon ....

Of course, people that take the 5th and request pardons could be innocent too!

[sheshe2]

10. He asked for a blanket pardon for trafficking.

Innocent people do NOT ask for pardons.

[SoCalDavidS]

14. Turns Out, It Looks Like He Never Needed One nt

[sheshe2]

18. Frankly, I am not sure this is over yet.

[SoCalDavidS]

20. Was It Over When The Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor?

Well, it ain't over now.

[niyad]

35. When the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Maybe you should put down

whatever you are drinking.

[magicarpet]

42. A Belushi moment....

(source of Germans/Pearl Harbor joke,.. see movie clip below.)

[niyad]

44. Thank you. I never saw that movie.

[magicarpet]

52. Frat-boy foolishness,... if you like that type of humor.

Like watching DJT being a party boy - social butterfly while at college - but precious little book studying. Too stupid to study or graduate. So daddy bought his graduating certificates/credentials.

[niyad]

71. That sort of thing never appealed to me.

[ShazzieB]

114. Same here.

Never had any desire to see it. I remember seeing clips from it on TV at the time and thinking, "Eww, no."

[The Unmitigated Gall]

68. I, for one, welcome our obscure cinematic references...

[Meowmee]

80. 😹

[sheshe2]

40. Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor?

Is this thread a joke? Not sure what your point here is.

[magicarpet]

43. See post 42 above...

[MustLoveBeagles]

45. It's a reference to the movie Animal House

See post 42.

[demmiblue]

12. We don't owe him shit.

[arthritisR_US]

66. 1000% agree!

[OAITW r.2.0]

13. Small fish. Let's land the biggest bottom feeder of all, Trump

Off the hook, not worth wasting time with.

[rgbecker]

15. By that criteria Trump is innocent too!

We'll just have to wait and the MAGA's can have a few days to enjoy the Fall leaves.

[SoCalDavidS]

17. Either He's Innocent, Or Our "justice" System Is A Complete Joke

Our system does not allow for calling someone guilty, when they haven't even been convicted, let alone charged with a crime. And so far, TFT hasn't.

[hlthe2b]

25. No. The press can not. The courts cannot, the attorneys, the juries cannot. The public CAN

express their belief in innocence or guilt as they want. It is opinion, not fact at that juncture.

[rgbecker]

31. Maybe you can't call him guilty, because you don't know...

but he could well be guilty whether the courts know it or not.

[Marius25]

94. Our justice system is a complete joke and always has been.

[kcr]

16. All I can say to this is speak for yourself

If this is about the WaPo article, you've been duped.

[Sewa]

36. Who has a better track record of accuracy

The Washington Post or bloggers? 💀🤙

[kcr]

38. Who cares about bloggers

All one has to do is read the article itself:

Senior department officials have not made a final decision on whether to charge Gaetz, but it is rare for such advice to be rejected, these people told The Washington Post, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss the deliberations.

[hlthe2b]

21. I think you are premature. The WAPO story is now being reported as "dubious."

Take a step back.

[SoCalDavidS]

23. The Washington Post Stands By Their Sources & Story

Funny how WaPo is such a trustworthy news organization, EXCEPT when there's a story which people don't like.

[kcr]

28. DUers are ripping WaPo all the time around here

Often rightfully so.

[hlthe2b]

32. I pay to subscribe, thank you. But even the best newspapers sometimes get it wrong.

You are being premature--even if the WAPO story is correct because the US Attorney has not made a final decision or at least not announced one. This is based on hearsay from someone acquainted with the investigating prosecutors.

[underpants]

34. I do agree with the OP but i do have this in the back of my mind

It could be a catch and release for tracking purposes.

[RockRaven]

22. Innocent until proven guilty is not a walking-around-town-decision-making standard. It is a

legal/courtroom standard. Outside of the criminal justice system, that standard does not hold.

Nobody is obliged to declare anyone innocent of a crime because they weren't convicted or weren't charged. I am allowed to say that I believe OJ murdered his ex-wife. I am not obligated to call him innocent.

Sometimes our justice system is a fucking joke and it is childish for one to insist otherwise because the implications of that make one feel uneasy.

You mis-state what constitutes innocence, and what people are allowed to conclude or say.

[SoCalDavidS]

27. Yes, OJ Murdered Two People

More proof of my contention that some special people are Above The Law.

At least OJ was charged and tried in a court of law. Apparently prosecutors don't think Gaetz is worthy of even that.

[LexVegas]

24. Like OJ and Bill Cosby. Yeah.

[SoCalDavidS]

30. OJ & Cosby Were Both Charged, And Cosby Was Found Guilty

Both are prime examples of being famous enough to be Above The Law.

Unlike Gaetz, both actually spent time in prison.

[LexVegas]

41. OJ innocent of double murder. Gotta respect it. nt

[KarenS]

26. Innocent until proven guilty pertains to the court room,,,,

to the justice system.


I owe that MF nothing.

[niyad]

29. May he, and his enablers, receive everything they deserve.

I owe that smarmy bastard NOTHING.

[LiberalFighter]

33. If they didn't find evidence, the DOJ failed to do their job.

[blm]

37. It read like a planted story to me. You are welcome to your

view, but, I have a pretty reliable sense when it comes to planted stories. Been catching them since IranContra.

[SoCalDavidS]

48. I'll Believe That When I See An Indictment

Meanwhile the media and many on DU had him indicted and convicted 18 months ago.

The fact we've heard NOTHING since then, tells me that it's not gonna happen. Sorry to say.

[blm]

51. Don't care. It still smells like a planted story.

Too much vagueness around the edges.

[SoCalDavidS]

55. Planted By Whom?

If there was a realistic possibility he was going to be indicted, then why would someone plant a story saying he wasn't?

[blm]

62. For the headlines

It becomes the news story and the headlines become shorthand for ‘innocence’. Kinda like what you’re doing now.

Ever hear of Michael LeDeen? It was his job for over 4 decades to plant propaganda into newspapers, foreign and domestic. WaPo gets used just like any other paper. Look how Gertz and Solomon used Washington Times and The Hill.

[SoCalDavidS]

63. Regardless Of Whether This Story Has Any Basis In Fact

There is basis in the fact he has yet to be charged. With or without this story, that is the reality. He's about to be re-elected to lead his Shithole Florida District for another 2 years.

[Tomconroy]

39. The presumption of innocence is a concept that applies only to the jury

in a criminal case. Outside of the jury box no one is required to presume Matt Gaetz innocent.

[SoCalDavidS]

47. It's Slander To Say Otherwise

He's just the type of vindictive Asshole that would go after someone who went on TV and called him a pedophile or human trafficker.

[obamanut2012]

82. Lol no it is not slander

[hlthe2b]

90. You may wish to bend over backwards to give this cretin benefit-of-the doubt, but for the public

(not a jury or the media) to do otherwise is NOT slander. It is opinion. You have two (now three) DUers correcting you on the legalities. Please take note as it DOES MATTER.

[Marius25]

95. He calls Biden a pedophile so Matt Gaetz can go screw himself

[NewHendoLib]

46. Fuck. Matt. Gaetz. Period.

[Deuxcents]

50. 👆

[H2O Man]

49. Odd.

I don't, and I don't know anyone else who does. Also, you err in claiming this means he is "innocent of all accusations."

[SoCalDavidS]

53. Fair Enough, But In The Eyes Of The Law, And Our "justice" System, He Is Innocent

If prosecutors strongly believed that he wasn't, they would at least charge him, and take their chances. Instead they appear to be saying their evidence is insufficient and their witnesses are unreliable.

If this were pertaining to one of our own, we would be shouting from the rooftops about how there wasn't enough evidence, and the witnesses accusing our guy, were not worthy of believing in a court.

[H2O Man]

60. Are you joking?

Hepefully, you are not seriously saying that in the eyes of the law/ justice system he is innocent. Neither is he guilty or not guilty. He is a citizen who reportedly was investigated, and there are very limited reports claiming that it has been determined he will not be prosecuted. Thus, he is a citizen, not much different from you, in the sense there absolutely is no "innocent" standard in the legal system you claim to honor.

[kysrsoze]

54. Incorrect. You are presumed guilty when being investigated, charged and bailed.

The only time you are presumed innocent is during a trial, during the presentation of evidence.


And he still seems guilty - they just don’t want to move forward.

[SoCalDavidS]

57. You're Presumed Guilty When You're Charged?

I'd never heard that before. Honestly.

[Tomconroy]

59. Obviously the police and prosecutor think your guilty.

[SoCalDavidS]

61. If Prosecutors Thought Gaetz Was Guilty, They Would At Least Indict Him

Take their fucking chances with a trial, but at least attempt to hold him accountable.

Instead they're basically saying they don't think their case holds enough water to even warrant a trial.

[Tomconroy]

64. Federal prosecutors are obligated to bring criminal charges

Only when they believe they can prove the charges beyond a reasonable doubt..
That's different from believing someone is innocent.

[SoCalDavidS]

65. I Suppose They Can Use That Same Excuse If/When They Fail To Indict TFG

Because to this point, he too has lived his entire life, Above The Law.

[GoodRaisin]

86. Try getting charged sometime.

You’ll see.

[Hekate]

56. You funny

[MyMission]

58. Do we owe tfg an apology too?

And countless other dirtbags who we know or suspect are guilty, but law enforcement hasn't caught up with them yet? Investigations are ongoing. We do not owe gaetz or tfg an apology.

I question your motivation for suggesting we apologize to gaetz, and yet I understand where you're coming from. I just think it's a divisive topic. Gaetz is a rethug, a jerk, a creep. We can suspect and accuse and discuss thoughts about various crimes he and other magats might have committed. It's what we do here. No apologies.

There are lots of creeps and criminals out there getting away with all sorts of crimes. Sometimes there's not enough evidence, sometimes the justice system doesn't work well enough.

I wouldn't suggest we owe apologies to anyone on their side.

[sheshe2]

67. You are correct.

ie: Kyle Rittenhouse.

[dalton99a]

77. +1. And O. J. Simpson

[UTUSN]

69. I don't owe him shit

[pnwmom]

70. No, we don't. We're not members of a jury. We're free to have an opinion on his guilt or innocence,

based on the evidence that has become public.

If he ends up being charged, and any of us end up on the jury, then we'll have to be able to keep an open mind.

But not till then.

P.S. Your exact same argument would apply to Trump. Are you saying we should apologize to HIM because we think he's a Jan 6 conspirator? Because we think he stole government documents and had his attorney certify that they'd all been turned over? Because we don't consider him innocent till he's been proven guilty?

If so, maybe you're on the wrong website.

[FakeNoose]

72. Are you saying that Matt Gaetz DIDN'T ask Chump for a blanket pardon?

I believe it's on record that he DID.

Why would someone request a pardon if they knew they weren't guilty?

[nini]

73. An apology? Lololol

He’s owed the same respect he gives those of us on side of democracy.

[area51]

74. +1 n/t

[dalton99a]

79. So are you going to deliver it to him on bended knees with tears in your eyes?

FUCK THAT SHIT

[Meowmee]

81. If you feel the need to, do so

He is a fascist, and a few other things, whatever crimes he committed, charged or not, he gets nothing from me.

Also, surely you know this system in particular is far from perfect. People have committed heinous crimes all over the world and had no accountability. These are the sorry facts.

[obamanut2012]

83. Lololololololol

Oh brother.

[Buns_of_Fire]

84. Dear Matt; I'm sorry that you're such a disgusting piece of human garbage.

Good enough?

[jcgoldie]

85. well...

I opened this expecting sarcasm.

[akbacchus_BC]

87. Who is we? Gaetz is a piece of shit. nt

[arthritisR_US]

89. Are you seriously delusional?

[tavernier]

91. We?

I’m afraid you are mistaking me for someone who gives a shit.

Once their brains are controlled by the MAGA cult, I have no interest in interacting with them.

[Marius25]

93. Nope. Matt Gaetz asked Trump for a pardon for his crimes.

He's guilty, he's evil, he's a traitor.

He will never get an apology and this thread is insanely stupid.

[ornotna]

96. No

Anything else we need to do for that scumbag?

[Mr. Ected]

97. The standard in the court of public opinion is the exact opposite

The fact that a case may be difficult to make doesn't mean he's innocent, for goodness sakes.

[48656c6c6f20]

99. Response removed

As to avoid banning.

[PCIntern]

100. " They're going to have to pry an apology from my cold, dead, larynx"

I’d sooner piss on his shoes

[ProfessorGAC]

101. Top 10 Most Pointless Posts Ever

Congratulations

[bluestarone]

102. PERFECT answer!!!

[Autumn]

103. You certainly may apologize, I'm gonna pass. Fuck that pedophile.

[Bettie]

104. Wow, this defines "right wing talking point"

That you, Matt?

But, I'd point out that for wealthy white men, our "justice" system has always been a complete joke.

Also, an anonymous source isn't the slam-dunk you think it is.

Finally, he asked for a pardon...one that would cover human trafficking.

[budkin]

106. How about NO?

And you can eat **** for even posting this drivel.

[LuckyCharms]

107. OK. Sorry about your stupid face, Matt.

[FrankBooth]

108. Oh really?

I don't see anyone here stopping you from apologizing your little heart out to poor, mistreated Matt. Go for it. Knock yourself out. Enjoy yourself.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

109. nothing innocent about Gaetz

like TFG he has yet to be proven guilty in a court of law.

Gaetz is guilty of bad judgment everyday


Nice troll account Matt, stay classy

[Demsrule86]

110. This was a Wash. Post article...and it has been called into question...so let's wait and see.

I just read a real hit piece on Fetterman written by George Will on WP.

[panader0]

112. 111 replies and only 1 rec. I don't think your OP went over very well David.

Just another ray of sunshine from Southern Cal.
Oh yeah, Fuck Matt Gaetz.

[Rob H.]

113. Who the fuck is 'we'? nt

[ShazzieB]

115. "Innocent until proven guilty" only applies to courtrooms.

Outside of a courtroom, we all have the right to form our own opinions, and to voice them.

The burden for proving a person's guilt falls on the prosecution, and those who serve on a jury that will be ruling on a defendant's guilt or innocence are enjoined to keep an open mind and not form an opinion until they have heard all the evidence.

The rest of us have no such obligation, and we do not "owe" Matt Gaetz, or any other public figure accused of a crime, an apology of any sort for forming an opinion that he is most likely guilty or for saying so.

[ismnotwasm]

116. That fucking thumb?

No. We don’t