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Next stop $7/gallon... I paid 6.99 tonight. (Original Post) WarGamer Sep 2022 OP
I paid almost that much today to.. hurricane Ian??? Demovictory9 Sep 2022 #1
Hmm...gas prices going up in California where most races aren't competitive onenote Sep 2022 #2
We actually have 4-5 REALLY important House races... WarGamer Sep 2022 #3
+1 Celerity Sep 2022 #25
California mandates its own special gas blend, which exacerbates any supply issues Amishman Sep 2022 #28
After all these years of having special mandates, you Emile Sep 2022 #30
uh, no. Why would they tool up additional facilities that won't get used regularly? Amishman Sep 2022 #31
Okay, but I still think it's a case of GOUGING! Emile Sep 2022 #32
Please explain in detail, I am not sure what you think is their misdeed Amishman Sep 2022 #33
What is left is Emile Sep 2022 #34
piss poor management would be the constant waste required to meet your expectations Amishman Sep 2022 #36
$3.39 in southern MD elleng Sep 2022 #4
amazing... WarGamer Sep 2022 #5
Just past WaWa in So. NJ and they were $3.35 TheBlackAdder Sep 2022 #6
Still well under $3.00 throughout Tennessee Tanuki Sep 2022 #7
gas is 3.54 here today. niyad Sep 2022 #8
I filled up three hours ago. Jeebo Sep 2022 #9
I just saw $3.13 in KCMO. It may have gone up leftyladyfrommo Sep 2022 #20
$3.09 in Brooklyn, NY IbogaProject Sep 2022 #10
What gas station are you going to? Dorian Gray Sep 2022 #22
McGuiness by the BQE. Greenpoint IbogaProject Sep 2022 #41
I'm gonna make a road trip next time i fill up! Thanks! Dorian Gray Sep 2022 #44
I recall some cheap places on Atlantic near Bedford in BK too. IbogaProject Sep 2022 #45
Oh you people in LA and SD have all the money anyways. padfun Sep 2022 #11
I will never understand Americans who demand complete, car-dependent infrastructure Yavin4 Sep 2022 #12
I'll never understand the obtuse attitude of those who radicalleft Sep 2022 #17
the poster did not deny that reality, you are way out over your skis calling them obtuse Celerity Sep 2022 #26
Thank you for the support. n/t Yavin4 Sep 2022 #58
Plus the huge % of people newdayneeded Sep 2022 #29
You anti EV'ers need to get a new talking point, there are multiple EV's under 40K, under 30K, 2 Celerity Sep 2022 #60
I have a Silverado newdayneeded Oct 2022 #61
The cars you personally choose to own are not germane to my reply. Celerity Oct 2022 #62
The "reality of this nation" is that building walkable, dense housing is literally illegal. Yavin4 Sep 2022 #59
Almost $6/gal here south coast Oregon. Up over a $ KPN Sep 2022 #13
$2.72 here in Houston LetMyPeopleVote Sep 2022 #14
3.05 in my Arkansas town. Others towns have it at 2.99 calguy Sep 2022 #15
Looks like the USA is finally challenging Europe DFW Sep 2022 #16
West Coast Refineries modrepub Sep 2022 #18
It's pretty obvious to me that fossil fuel companies are doing this to... brush Sep 2022 #19
Really. So how do you explain the lower prices in most of the country? onenote Sep 2022 #37
You have a point, but how do you explain the higher prices in some of the nation? brush Sep 2022 #42
The reasons for the west coast price spike are explained in several posts onenote Sep 2022 #46
West coast is blue, could be an attempt to pick up some repub seats. brush Sep 2022 #48
Most of those seats are safe. And there are plenty of seats up for grabs on the east coast onenote Sep 2022 #50
Nothing to argue about in the eastern states. What you say is true. brush Sep 2022 #51
There are way more toss up seats outside of California than in California. onenote Sep 2022 #52
You think the huge price difference has been adequately explained? brush Sep 2022 #53
This message was self-deleted by its author onenote Sep 2022 #47
WHAT? Dorian Gray Sep 2022 #21
As mentioned above, CA mandates a special blend, plus CA is far more car-centric. sir pball Sep 2022 #40
Predatory Capitalism alive and well. Emile Sep 2022 #23
$3.32 in Durham, NC mnhtnbb Sep 2022 #24
Yes. Oil companies become more greedy before elections Jose Garcia Sep 2022 #27
The actual data tells a different story. onenote Sep 2022 #38
California Gas Prices NowISeetheLight Sep 2022 #35
i just checked has buddy moonshinegnomie Sep 2022 #39
* in small parts of... WarGamer Sep 2022 #54
Yeah, gas stations in the boonies Sympthsical Sep 2022 #57
The average price in S.F. is currently $6.22 Sympthsical Sep 2022 #56
Huh? $3.43 here. nt Tommy Carcetti Sep 2022 #43
More like $2 or $3. Initech Sep 2022 #49
Wow! That's steep. Regular just outside of Austin was $2.92 today. herding cats Sep 2022 #55

onenote

(42,702 posts)
2. Hmm...gas prices going up in California where most races aren't competitive
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 12:14 AM
Sep 2022

Gas prices going down on the east coast, where there are many competitive races.

I'm gonna guess that what is happening with gas prices isn't about the election.


https://www.kptv.com/2022/09/27/west-coast-gas-prices-skyrocketing-due-refinery-issues-aaa-says/

Amishman

(5,557 posts)
28. California mandates its own special gas blend, which exacerbates any supply issues
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 07:02 AM
Sep 2022

Since CA mandates a particular blend (for emissions) that no one else requires, only a few refineries are set up to make it.

So when a problem occurs at one of those refineries, supply tightens and additional gas cannot be brought in from elsewhere. This causes a CA centered price shock like we are seeing.

Emile

(22,740 posts)
30. After all these years of having special mandates, you
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 07:45 AM
Sep 2022

would think these refineries would stop using that excuse to jack up prices. It's either piss poor management or price gouging.

Amishman

(5,557 posts)
31. uh, no. Why would they tool up additional facilities that won't get used regularly?
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 07:54 AM
Sep 2022

CA blend costs more to make, so they aren't going to produce excess as they would be selling it elsewhere at a loss.

If they kept standby capacity to produce it, that also would be inefficient.

They aren't directly jacking up the prices either - it is a market commodity. The price they get is what buyers are willing to pay. When supply crashes, only those willing to pay a the highest price get their orders filled, and they pass that cost along to the consumer.

Gasoline blends with ethanol have a poor storage life as ethanol is hydrophilic, so keeping a long term reserve of refined gas also isn't viable.

This is basic economics.

Amishman

(5,557 posts)
33. Please explain in detail, I am not sure what you think is their misdeed
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 08:01 AM
Sep 2022

They don't directly control the price, only supply.

Their ability to control supply is limited as excess production capacity or excess inventory is not practical for the reasons I mentioned.

What is left?

This is simply the economic ramifications of CA emissions causing them to be a niche market for a critical commodity. It causes supply to that market to be highly inelastic, which has ramifications when supply is disrupted.

Amishman

(5,557 posts)
36. piss poor management would be the constant waste required to meet your expectations
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 08:08 AM
Sep 2022

What you are expecting is not reasonable given the constraints involved.

They would either be producing excess and selling it elsewhere at a loss or continually wasting resources to be capable to add production elsewhere at short notice. Either of those practices would be piss poor management, and if the losses were bad enough, could even open them to shareholder action due to the waste and added expense.

An option would be a CA state program to fund additional stand-by refinery capacity, but I doubt that would be politically viable given the negative public view of giving money to oil companies.

Jeebo

(2,023 posts)
9. I filled up three hours ago.
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 12:32 AM
Sep 2022

I paid $3.569 for mid-grade here in central Missouri. If the pump had said $6.999, I would have gone to another fillin' station.

-- Ron

IbogaProject

(2,815 posts)
41. McGuiness by the BQE. Greenpoint
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 09:38 AM
Sep 2022

Some areas in the outer boroughs totally surprise me with prices that rival NJ.

Credit price for 87 was $3.25 there last night.

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
12. I will never understand Americans who demand complete, car-dependent infrastructure
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 12:47 AM
Sep 2022

and then complain about gas prices.

radicalleft

(478 posts)
17. I'll never understand the obtuse attitude of those who
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 02:57 AM
Sep 2022

fail to grasp that the reality of this nation is one of personal automobile ownership and our reliance on that in order to survive in this economy!

Celerity

(43,357 posts)
26. the poster did not deny that reality, you are way out over your skis calling them obtuse
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 05:27 AM
Sep 2022
personal automobile ownership and our reliance on that in order to survive


those are post-WWII manipulated constructs

Celerity

(43,357 posts)
60. You anti EV'ers need to get a new talking point, there are multiple EV's under 40K, under 30K, 2
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 09:06 PM
Sep 2022

under 20K, and one for just 7000K, when rebates are added in.

Also, the average price of an ICE car in the US is almost 50 thousand USD.


https://www.hotcars.com/cheapest-electric-cars-to-buy-now/


10/10
Kia Niro: $39,990

9/10
Hyundai Ioniq 5: $39,950

8/10
Hyundai Kona: $34,000

7/10
Mazda MX-30: $33,470

6/10
Ford F-150 Lightning: $32,474

5/10
Mini Cooper SE: $29,900

4/10
Chevrolet Bolt EUV: $26,000

3/10
Chevrolet Bolt: $24,000

2/10
Nissan Leaf: $19,900

1/10
Chang Li: $7,000

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
59. The "reality of this nation" is that building walkable, dense housing is literally illegal.
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 08:50 PM
Sep 2022

And funding of reliable, safe, and clean public transportation is a very low priority. The entire nation is built around car ownership bc that's how the majority of Americans want it.

So, please stop complaining about gas prices.

KPN

(15,645 posts)
13. Almost $6/gal here south coast Oregon. Up over a $
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 01:46 AM
Sep 2022

in the past week to 10 days. What’s up with the big variations across the country? I can understand a $ or so difference because that’s what I’m used to, but $3-4 difference?


The oil industry needs taxed at 100%.

DFW

(54,378 posts)
16. Looks like the USA is finally challenging Europe
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 02:43 AM
Sep 2022

Do to the strong dollar and a tax reduction for gas at the pump, the price is down from about $9 per US gallon to about $7.25 here in Germany.

modrepub

(3,495 posts)
18. West Coast Refineries
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 04:29 AM
Sep 2022

Different oil source and different refinery infrastructure from the rest of the country. Something must be up. If we had a real (curious) media then you'd probably know why this is happening.

Most economic teams in the M$M are pretty clueless these days. Not an ounce of curiosity in them. Just want to shove the mic in some talking heads face and print/record what the say. Digging into a topic and really investing more than 15 minutes in a story is apparently too much for them.

brush

(53,778 posts)
19. It's pretty obvious to me that fossil fuel companies are doing this to...
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 04:40 AM
Sep 2022

damage Joe Biden and Democratic mid-term chances.

brush

(53,778 posts)
42. You have a point, but how do you explain the higher prices in some of the nation?
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 12:06 PM
Sep 2022

Somebody is raising the prices.

brush

(53,778 posts)
48. West coast is blue, could be an attempt to pick up some repub seats.
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 01:29 PM
Sep 2022

Nearly 7 bucks in California v 3 bucks plus in other states seems excessive even with California special refinery requirements.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
50. Most of those seats are safe. And there are plenty of seats up for grabs on the east coast
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 01:51 PM
Sep 2022

So why aren't gas prices going up in all of those states.

And Cook's analysis suggests that there are tight Senate races in Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Colorado, Georgia, yet gas prices have been declining or are essentially flat over the past several weeks in those states.

brush

(53,778 posts)
51. Nothing to argue about in the eastern states. What you say is true.
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 02:13 PM
Sep 2022

I'm just suggesting that the House majority race is going to be so close that repugs could be trying to pick off some blue seats whereever they can, and raising prices in California where there are a lot of seats is as good a place as any to try.

A few calls to fellow republican fossil fuel executivex doesn't cost McCarthy anything. The price differential of nearly 7 bucks a gallon v 3 bucks and change sure seems out of line, don't you think?

onenote

(42,702 posts)
52. There are way more toss up seats outside of California than in California.
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 02:29 PM
Sep 2022

And the reasons for the price increases in California have been documented and explained.

But people are going to believe what they want to believe.

brush

(53,778 posts)
53. You think the huge price difference has been adequately explained?
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 02:50 PM
Sep 2022

Last edited Fri Sep 30, 2022, 06:45 PM - Edit history (1)

That doesn't make complete sense to me since there hasn't been such a huge price differential before the uptick. And then there was the sharp drop in prices across nation for 80-some days in a row, only for the California prices to suddenly shoot backup again.

Sure seems there's some manipulation going on.

Response to brush (Reply #42)

sir pball

(4,742 posts)
40. As mentioned above, CA mandates a special blend, plus CA is far more car-centric.
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 08:48 AM
Sep 2022

In NYC if it gets too expensive to drive, there's a fairly pervasive public transit network, it might not be great but you can grab a bus or train. In LA? You're driving and you're gonna pay whatever it costs. Is there anywhere besides the Bay that has any meaningful transit systems?

mnhtnbb

(31,388 posts)
24. $3.32 in Durham, NC
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 05:13 AM
Sep 2022

I see lots of California license plates when driving around the Triangle area (Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill). There are also plenty of jobs, says this former CA resident who left in 1988 and never looked back.

onenote

(42,702 posts)
38. The actual data tells a different story.
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 08:39 AM
Sep 2022

Year after year after year, with rare exceptions, gas prices peak sometime in the spring (occasionally summer) and then drop through the summer and fall -- typically they are lower in September/October than they were earlier in the year. That is true for election years and non-election years. And, with the exception of the West Coast, where refinery issues are a major problem this year, it is true for most the country this year.

NowISeetheLight

(3,943 posts)
35. California Gas Prices
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 08:04 AM
Sep 2022

I watched a YouTube video a couple weeks ago about our CA gas prices. While we have high taxes the other reason it said was infrastructure. The video explained there aren’t really any pipelines to the west coast due to the terrain. As a result most of our oil is brought in by ship, which is more expensive. It kind of makes sense. I read another article that said half of the US imports of Russian oil went to west coast refineries. That’s all gone too.

The California Energy Commission website lists multiple reasons our gas prices are high:

“Many factors affect gasoline prices, including crude oil cost, refinery cost and profits, distribution cost, marketing costs, and profits. In California, there are five reasons why retail gasoline prices are higher than the average price in the United States:

Higher Taxes on Gasoline
State and local sales taxes, combined with the state excise tax, account for the difference between California and the U.S. average.

Higher Gasoline Production Costs
California's unique, cleaner-burning gasoline blend specification costs more to produce than other types of gasoline, typically amounting to a 10-to-15 cents per gallon price difference between California and the U.S. average.

Environmental Program Costs
California is a world leader in its efforts to fight climate change. The state’s higher air quality standards than elsewhere in the U.S. are designed to protect the health and environment from the harmful effects of air pollution.

California’s Shorter Winter Season
Summer-blend gasoline evaporates at a higher temperature than winter-blend gasoline, meaning it is less likely to contribute to unhealthy ozone and smog levels. Summer-blend gasoline is also more expensive to produce. As a result of California’s warmer climate, the state uses summer-blend gasoline for a longer period during the year than elsewhere in the nation.

Isolated Nature of the California Fuels Market
Under normal conditions, California refiners produce enough gasoline to meet demand inside the state. California refineries also export gasoline. When needed, the state typically imports gasoline via marine shipments, which usually take three to four weeks to deliver. The state’s prices must rise to secure these international imports via marine vessel to cover the additional delivery costs.

As a result of the state’s isolated fuels market, unplanned refinery outages requiring maintenance can significantly impact the state’s gasoline supply, usually resulting in temporary price spikes.”

Sympthsical

(9,073 posts)
57. Yeah, gas stations in the boonies
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 05:04 PM
Sep 2022

Funnily enough, my partner is in Stockton for work today. After I saw that link, I texted him, "Fill up you haven't!"

Work pays for his little field trips anyway, but hey, maybe he can save the company some bucks.

Sympthsical

(9,073 posts)
56. The average price in S.F. is currently $6.22
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 05:02 PM
Sep 2022

Your link is showing the lowest ten prices in the entire state of California (and boy howdy are those going to change).

My Costco near Napa just hit $6. And if that's Costco in an outer burb, good luck to everyone else.

Initech

(100,075 posts)
49. More like $2 or $3.
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 01:36 PM
Sep 2022

Not even two weeks ago gas was like $4.89 a gallon at most stations. I filled up last night and it was $5.79 at Costco. Some stations where I live had it at $6.59 or higher.

And then I checked the news as to why gas prices were rising, oil companies said that it was due to "refinery problems" which I immediately interpreted as "grade A bullshit".

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
55. Wow! That's steep. Regular just outside of Austin was $2.92 today.
Fri Sep 30, 2022, 04:45 PM
Sep 2022

It's $3.10 further in so I filled up when I could at the cheaper one.

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