General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis will get lost in the GD thread. I just have a hard time and need to rant over this Ian bullshit
Please don't get me wrong. I have compassion for people that have been traumatized by something like this. I feel terribly for any loss of peoples loved ones. I am definitely not an unfeeling human being, I really do care. That's why I am going to say something, bash me if you want.
I have a long family history in FL, my indigenous family and had been going there for many years when I was younger. Not as a tourist, but to see family.
The first time I permanently moved there I was invited by a distant cousin and moved to Indian Rocks Beach in 84. Anyone who had been to that little town before the mid 90's knows it was the last bastion of old 50's style white man Florida left on the west coast besides maybe Cedar Key. Gulf Blvd was damn near a dirt road. They didn't allow condos until the late 90's. I lived in a 3 room bungalow with my cousin with the beach and the longest pier in FL as my front porch. I took nothing for granted. I worked on a long line boat with my cousin. I got to know my biggest neighbor, the ocean, intimately for the first time. You couldn't get me out of it, I loved it, still do. But for all its beauty I listened, learned and respected when those with experience spoke of the dark side. Sure I had read about storms, saw TV footage, but when you hear about them first hand, when you learn about and respect a new environment you live in you best listen.
In 85 I got my first real lesson with Elena, a Cat 5 storm that never moved. It never got closer than 60 or 70 miles from us. For nearly 4 days it just sent wave after wave of surge at us, upwards of 9 feet. It was scary as hell. We were going to get off the island but the surge came in so quick we were stuck. We were also helping others that were caught by the surprise of the surge. I watched the longest pier in FL die. You must remember they couldn't predict back then the way they can now. But because I listened, learned and suddenly truly respected about where I lived fear turned to understanding.
I've lived many places in the almost 40 years after that, over half within eyesight of that beautiful neighbor with a temper.. And that lesson has helped me I think more than any other in my life. Where ever you go, move, live or anything you do in your life you have a personal responsibility to listen, learn and respect your new environment. If you cant, are not willing or are just to arrogant, stay where you're at. The bad part...
DON'T MOVE TO FLORIDA unless you're willing to go back to school and learn about where you're living. I am very very serious about that. The environment of Florida owes you nothing, and it's not just storms. While it is beautiful, especially in its natural state, while it has some kind of "Disney" other worldliness that a cornfield or an urban row of same 'ole same 'ole homes needing mowed, raked and shoveled of snow year after year, a seasonal monotony of a working lifetime that would naturally be envious of Florida then DEFINITELY DO NOT MOVE to the coast unless you are seriously going to change your life, unless you are going to educate yourself and LEARN and RESPECT where you're about live.
You're not only endangering yourself you are selfishly endangering others who have to come and get you when you cry. I get so sick of hearing either on TV, or in person of storms I've been in, someone from Michigan or New Jersey or Indiana or just any damn place up north who damn near gets killed or gets other people killed or cries because their house 6 feet above sea level is gone because they think that the ocean around a spit of land that has, is, and will be slammed by these storms more than just about anyplace in the world is just a big jet ski party.
Climate change or not IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN DOWN THERE! Fucking deal with it or go back where you came from. Sorry but I've heard it over and over and over and over. Go down for a month in May get you some Micky Mouse ears and then go home if you're not willing to understand the risk your taking for you, your family and personally, having too many people down there has permanently fucked up one of the most beautiful places in the world.
Commence with the bashing I don't care... I'm right.
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ananda
(35,140 posts)I don't like living here in Texas, but weather
is not an issue, and I have roots here that
are important to me.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)250 New people are moving every day to Florida. Hurricanes are the worst part of living here, but you do what you can to protect your house which I did. Now it’s a beautiful sunny day. Florida will come back as it always does people will rebuild and get on with our lives. Every state has negative weather. Mother nature is a beast and always has been since the beginning of time.
jmowreader
(53,190 posts)Idaho’s negative weather is rain and snow. Unless you’re stupid enough to go out in a blizzard, or you’re homeless and freeze to death in it, Idaho’s negative weather is either a nuisance or a blessing depending on your opinion of winter sports.
Florida’s negative weather is completely capable of killing you even if you do everything right.
ShazzieB
(22,582 posts)
SoCalDavidS
(10,599 posts)I could never live in a state that continually votes for Assholes like TFG, DeSatan, Rubio & Scott.
jmowreader
(53,190 posts)All the invasive species and the frequent hurricanes are the first things that come to mind, as is the extremely high average temperature.
soldierant
(9,354 posts)but sane leadership might be able to mitigate the hurricanes with proper planning - I mean, you'll always have hurricanes, but better building codes, better planning for emergency shelter, better planning for a lot of effects might help mitigate the effects. And there are ways that competent leadership can deal with invasive species - probably not to eliminate all of Florida's - for one thing, it's been going on too long. But when leadership ignores every problem, it does bear some blame for thse problems.
Historic NY
(40,037 posts)and it will take years before recovery is complete. Come to Florida, where you work for less to pay more for housing.
My brother and family moved there in 2017 and bought a place in Largo. My niece has a place at Madeira Beach, it's all concrete condo, rents there have gone through the roof. Riding around down there, you see a lot of older concrete/concrete block houses as compared to plastic sided wood frame structures. They have weathered the storms. It is not just hurricanes, but often time freak wind events that do damage. I find it's a nice place to visit when cold here in NY, but as the heat rises it is brutal. I can drive 3 miles to my local airport and be in St. PETE in 2hrs. That's my relationship with Florida now. I have had other family members and relatives that lived there for decades, they all experienced the weather and its costs multiple times.
Note there is a field of old rotting FEMA shacks that sit in a field near Largo, like a monument to past catastrophes.
wnylib
(26,008 posts)after and his kids grew up, married, and settled there. My parents joined them in retirement. They tried to persuade me to move there.
No way. Too hot and humid for me. Too RW for my politics. I am still in NY state, with blizzards and lake effect snow from Lake Erie. I can live with that because I know how to handle it.
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)The Greed. They covered little tiny islands with houses. That is not smart. All of those houses are now gone.
Phoenix61
(18,828 posts)I get tired of the federal government helping people build back homes on beaches or these little islands that often suffer severe damage or complete destruction from hurricanes. It’s time to move those people elsewhere.
Phoenix61
(18,828 posts)The constantly flooded. The area where they were will be turned into a retention pond.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)People chose to live on an Island. Other people chose to live in the Florida Keys. Blame the residents.
TigressDem
(5,126 posts)Maybe if they were all on stilts to drive the point home, less people would die because they thought it was a safe beautiful place to live.
Butterflylady
(4,584 posts)brooklynite
(96,882 posts)
catbyte
(39,150 posts)taxpayers bail them out when their home is washed away in a place that they never should've built in the first place. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but come on. Those little barrier islands are really, really unsafe to build on -- they're not permanent -- especially now that hurricanes seem to be getting stronger and the ocean is rising.
catbyte
(39,150 posts)They're barriers, buffers if you will, that are there to protect the mainland from the brunt of a hurricane, and their topography changes over time. They also should be covered in vegetation like mangroves that absorb a lot of energy. I understand it's beautiful and it's a great lifestyle, but all it takes is just one storm and it all comes crashing down. And we pay the bill.
I remember a reporter on the show 20/20 that had a house on a beach that got hit by hurricanes. He received government money to build the house back two or three times. He took advantage of it, but questioned why the federal government would continue to give him money to build back on the beach every time.
llmart
(17,614 posts)I'm an avid/rabid environmentalist and that's my objection to unbridled development. I lived in North Carolina though not on the coast, but they dealt with the same problem. Remember they had to actually move the Cape Hatteras lighthouse because of the erosion and destruction of the natural dunes?
Greed of the developers, poor long term planning by the people making the laws and ordinances regarding building.
MontanaMama
(24,721 posts)Honestly it is selfish AND, it just shouldn’t be allowed the build new construction in these places. Just because someone wants to build and can afford it doesn’t mean they should get their way.
Evolve Dammit
(21,774 posts)
Cassidy
(223 posts)"But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.
Matthew 7:26-27
They make money, enjoy their beach front property, or see those taxes and fees roll in, and the rest of us keep having to bail them out for their terrible decisions. And climate chaos means it will only get worse.
LeftInTX
(34,284 posts)The Keys a are different story because they are limestone islands (fossilized coral reefs)
However, barrier islands exist in urban areas and have an earthen base. Parts of barrier islands can literally be washed out by a storm. Nature itself will eventually rebuild the ruined island. Some barrier islands are man made.
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/barrier-islands.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galveston_Island
Although this article states that the change is permanent, it really isn't. Eventually nature recreates the island due to tidal/sediment activity.
Impact 1 - Wave erosion is confined to beach area. The eroded sands will be replenished in a few weeks to months and no significant change occurs in the system.
Impact 2 - Waves erode the dune and cause the dune to retreat. This is a semi-permanent or permanent change to the system.
Impact 3 - Wave action exceeds the dune's elevation, destroys the dune and pushes sediment from the dune landward (approximately 300 yards/100 m), thereby creating overwash. This change in the system pushes the barrier island landward.
Impact 4 - The storm surge completely covers the barrier island, destroys the dune system and pushes sediments landward (approximately 0.6 miles/1 km). This is a permanent change to the barrier island or portions of it.
ShazzieB
(22,582 posts)I never knew, until I went to that first site, that a barrier island is "a constantly changing deposit of sand that forms parallel to the coast." That really puts things in perspective!
While I'm here, I have a question about the hazard scale. What does "300 yards/100 m" mean? At first, I took it to mean that 300 yards is the same as 100 meters, but that isn't the case. 300 yards = 274.32 meters (not 100).
Am I reading this wrong? I'm confused!
LeftInTX
(34,284 posts)Edim
(312 posts)If you google the phrase, there are many articles using exactly the same or similar sentence (a lot of copy-pasting). There is a book that uses almost the same wording, but only 100 m (without 300 yards).
I guess it's a converting error resulting from mixing feet and yards. 100 m is ~300 feet (100 m = 328.1 ft, 300 ft = 91 m).
Response to brooklynite (Reply #6)
CCExile This message was self-deleted by its author.
fightforfreedom
(4,913 posts)Hardly a tree or bush left.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)Don’t hear too much complaining about that. Massachusetts Hyannis right on the water? Provincetown on the water. No place is immune to weather, sorry.
moonshinegnomie
(4,016 posts)between 1850 and 2020 florida was hit by 120 hurricanes
new york 15. massachussets 12. hawaii has only been directly hit by 3 hurricanes
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1269483/number-of-hurricanes-that-made-landfall-in-the-us-state/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hawaii_hurricanes
wnylib
(26,008 posts)catbyte
(39,150 posts)There have been local tsunamis on the Big Island since then, the last major one was in the 1980s. The Big Island is most at risk. The Japan earthquake generated a 3-foot tsunami that damaged harbors, but it wasn't catastrophic.
wnylib
(26,008 posts)first learned about how they operate - receding water, waves of surges, and their strength - when I read Michener's book, Hawaii. I know that other places are vulnerable to tsunamis, but because of that book, I have always associated them with the Hawaiian Islands.
catbyte
(39,150 posts)the most boring places on earth in terms of meteorology and seismology, but whatcha gonna do? 
wnylib
(26,008 posts)When I lived in Toledo, there was a tornado that struck the suburban Detroit area. It affected us, too. Our metal trash can blew through our car window.
Now that I'm in western NY, I watch Michigan weather reports because, in summer, we often get thunderstorms and tornado watches that begin in Michigan and blow across Lake Erie.
In winter, we often get snowstorms within 12 to 24 hours after Michigan.
catbyte
(39,150 posts)and got a lot of lake effect snowstorms, I now live in south central lower Michigan and the weather is moderate most of the time. We don't get the scorching heat that those folks west of Lake Michigan get because the lake really moderates the temperature. We're usually 10-15 degrees cooler and really bad storms in Wisconsin tend to lose energy over the cooler lake water. Sometimes a system doesn't care, but they are few and far between. I'm now far enough from the lake to avoid the lake effect snows except if there's a stiff west wind that will bring them this far inland.
We had an earthquake in I think 1986 or 87 and a couple of very minor shakes in the years since, but on the whole, we're pretty lucky here. I looked at a hazard map and it's one of the places that will be spared the worst effects of global warming in the future.
wnylib
(26,008 posts)inland from Lake Erie. We still get Lake effect snow, but not as bad as Buffalo gets.
I grew up on Lake Erie, in Erie, PA. The weather was milder there than where I am now because Erie is not on the far end of the Lake like Buffalo is. Buffalo gets the accumulated moisture that passes over the whole lake.
I lived in a western Cleveland suburb for 5 years. There was an interesting weather pattern there. Due to a ridge that extends from just south of the eastern Cleveland suburbs to south of Erie, the southeastern suburbs of Cleveland (and the northeastern suburbs to a lesser degree) get the worst storms in winter and summer.
We used to drive to Erie and back for the winter holidays. On our return home, between Erie and Cleveland, we always ran into heavy snow. By the time we got to our western Cleveland suburb, the ground was bare and there was not a flake in the sky.
In summer, I watched storm clouds from the west lift up and pass over us to dump on the eastern areas, leaving us sunny and dry.
But the WORST storm I have ever experienced in my life was the blizzard of 1978 while living in that Cleveland suburb. It came from the south and west, so it hit us first in the county. Steady winds of 60 to 70 mph with gusts to 110 mph. It came after a couple days of warmer weather and rain so there was solid ice under the blowing, powdery snow.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Blizzard_of_1978
catbyte
(39,150 posts)and was in college. The college I went to was notorious for staying open even when every other school in the area closed. It was really frustrating, too, because many students didn't live on campus. We had to drive 15 miles closer to Lake Michigan to get to class. But they couldn't stay open then, lol. They were shut down for 2 days while most of the other schools were closed for a week. Buffalo sure gets its share of snow!
wnylib
(26,008 posts)All day and night volunteers were going out to stranded cars with blankets and food while getting people off the highway to shelters in schools and churches. It was slow going because of drifts and poor visibility. Volunteers were tied to each other by ropes and passed rescued passengers from one volunteer to the next.
At night, between gusts, we could see the volunteers' lights bobbing up and down. I wanted to help but did not have proper clothing to be out there for any length of time and am only 5'1". Hard to get through the drifts, which were sometimes higher than me. But I baked pies and cookies and made sandwiches. Other people donated milk, diapers, toys, coffee, hot food, and warm clothing. Since it had been warmer before the blizzard hit, many people were not wearing warm enough clothing.
orangecrush
(30,247 posts)15 miles south, was in Erie 25 years.
Down here in red "south of 90" now.
Second year in Erie we had -18 without wind chill, in 93.
In 2015 down here we had -25 for damn near a week in 2015.
wnylib
(26,008 posts)Away from the lake's tempering effect, it can get colder in winter, hotter in summer.
But even near the lake that can happen. The Cleveland suburb that I lived in was not far from the lake. The first winter that we lived there, we had temperatures like that for a spell.
My father grew up on a farm between Waterford and Edinboro. Some of his siblings had homes in that area, too. I can remember visiting my grandfather or aunts and uncle in the spring when all the snow was melted in Erie, but there were still large patches of snow a foot deep on their property.
lonely bird
(2,940 posts)Grew up in the Cleveland area, moved to Toledo after I was transferred there. Was there for 8 years then on to the Chicago area. Now back in NE Ohio since 2009.
Lived through plenty of tornado warnings wherever Mrs. Bird and I have lived. Actually saw a funnel cloud when we lived in Bolingbrook, IL.
It is interesting in the Cleveland area with the snow in winter. If you are in Geauga County or Lake County you get hammered by lake effect snow before Lake Erie freezes over. Move to the west side of Cleveland or Lorain County and they get hardly any. Topography changes from hilly to flat.
I hate winter but still wouldn’t live in Florida.
MiHale
(13,032 posts)Lived through Michigan “earthquakes”, tornadoes, blizzards, droughts, ice storms, floods.
Yeah it’s kinda boring as opposed to some other places but within a 15 mile radius there’s forests and lakes galore then there’s…yeah, ok a little boring unless you like trees and water.
catbyte
(39,150 posts)MiHale
(13,032 posts)Native here also, Commerce Twp. but 70 years ago that area was rural, civilization(?)came and we squirted up north always loved the Hale area got to go rural again.
Butterflylady
(4,584 posts)Been a resident of PA for 76 years and can't recall having weather where people have to rebuild their homes at the cost of the taxpayer every year in one region or another of coastal states.
Yeah we've had bad weather, but nothing like Ian ever, ever came close.
wnylib
(26,008 posts)PA was inundated with floods, far inland.
I lived in Erie at the time. I knew people in west central PA who lost everything in the floods. The rain, even in Erie, was so continuous that I remember feeling a sense of awe and relief the first day that was dry and sunny. Until then, it was like Noah's 40 days and 40 nights.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Agnes
wnylib
(26,008 posts)and Hurricane Sandy in 2012, both of which did substantial damage in PA.
Sandy was felt as far west as the shores of Lake Erie in NY, PA, and Ohio, knocking out power and destroying marinas.
allegorical oracle
(6,479 posts)FEMA reservist for 14 years and worked more disasters in NC, MS, AL, KY and GA than in FL. High on FEMA's "most likely" list is an overdue earthquake in The New Madrid fault that will affect the states around IL hard. Life's a crapshoot.
Mister Ed
(6,926 posts)A surprising thing I've learned about the Hawaiian Islands is that they are very seldom hit by hurricanes or typhoons (Hurricane Iniki in the 1990's being the notable exception). The prevailing wind patterns are such that the tropical storms are usually deflected away from the islands.
Nonetheless, your point still stands.
mchill
(1,188 posts)In the 1980’s when one of the cabins on the beach we reserved at Poipu washed away due to a hurricane. Hawaii would not let them rebuild there (smart).
The destruction was not that widespread, but tore up the road asphalt.
catbyte
(39,150 posts)The waters around Hawaii aren't conducive to hurricanes -- the water is too cold due the ocean currents. The only real hazards are the occasional tsunami, and the last really destructive one was in 1960. They get some earthquakes, and you have to be careful where you build on the Big Island because of lava flows from Mt. Kilauea, but Hawaii is relatively safe.
Historic NY
(40,037 posts)the second dwelling they had a condo was destroyed. The entire island was flattened, the fast food places that were left cooked all the food they had, so it wouldn't go bad with no power. Not one telephone pole was standing. The little cottage they had previously was gone except for a window and door frame. The funny part was the window still had the curtains she hung in place. We shipped antique kerosene lamps and peanut butter to her. The lamps came home again unscathed. There were winds exceeding 225 mph the blew the wind gauge away, it was later found. She spent days collecting school desks and books scattered about and set up classrooms on the beach, where students and families were now living. Somewhere I have pictures she sent home.
LeftInTX
(34,284 posts)Storm surge is worse where there is a shallow continental shelf.
Since the Hawaiian Islands are volcanic, their continental shelf is deep.
Ironically, the thing that causes the awesome waves tends to protect from storm surge.
"Run from the water. Shelter from the wind".
So if there is a hurricane in Hawaii:
Evacuate low lying areas by going a few miles inland.
Shelters should be able to with stand forecasted winds.
Generally a school gymnasium will suffice.
If one is in a structure that can handle up to F-3 tornado and is in an area at a higher elevation, then few lives are lost. Very few hurricanes are Cat 5s. If a hurricane is cat 5 at landfall I do not know how far inland, cat 5 winds exist. However, compared to tornadoes a Cat 5 hurricane is equivalent to a F-3 tornado. Cat 4 has the same winds as an F-2 tornado.
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboutsshws.php
1 74-95 mph
64-82 kt
119-153 km/h Very dangerous winds will produce some damage: Well-constructed frame homes could have damage to roof, shingles, vinyl siding and gutters. Large branches of trees will snap and shallowly rooted trees may be toppled. Extensive damage to power lines and poles likely will result in power outages that could last a few to several days.
2 96-110 mph
83-95 kt
154-177 km/h Extremely dangerous winds will cause extensive damage: Well-constructed frame homes could sustain major roof and siding damage. Many shallowly rooted trees will be snapped or uprooted and block numerous roads. Near-total power loss is expected with outages that could last from several days to weeks.
3
(major) 111-129 mph
96-112 kt
178-208 km/h Devastating damage will occur: Well-built framed homes may incur major damage or removal of roof decking and gable ends. Many trees will be snapped or uprooted, blocking numerous roads. Electricity and water will be unavailable for several days to weeks after the storm passes.
4
(major) 130-156 mph
113-136 kt
209-251 km/h Catastrophic damage will occur: Well-built framed homes can sustain severe damage with loss of most of the roof structure and/or some exterior walls. Most trees will be snapped or uprooted and power poles downed. Fallen trees and power poles will isolate residential areas. Power outages will last weeks to possibly months. Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks or months.
5
(major) 157 mph or higher
137 kt or higher
252 km/h or higher Catastrophic damage will occur: A high percentage of framed homes will be destroyed, with total roof failure and wall collapse. Fallen trees and power poles will isolate residential areas. Power outages will last for weeks to possibly months. Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks or months.
Versus tornados
Zero (F0) Weak 40-72 mph Light Damage. Some damage to chimneys; branches broken off trees, shallow-rooted trees uprooted, sign boards damaged.
One (F1) Weak 73-112 mph Moderate damage. Roof surfaces peeled off; mobile homes pushed foundations or overturned; moving autos pushed off road.
Two (F2) Strong 113-157 mph Considerable damage. Roofs torn from frame houses; mobile homes demolished; boxcars pushed over; large trees snapped or uprooted; light objects become projectiles.
Three (F3) Strong 158-206 mph Severe damage. Roofs and some walls torn from well- constructed houses; trains overturned; most trees in forested area uprooted; heavy cars lifted and thrown.
Four (F4) Violent 207-260 mph Devastating damage. Well- constructed houses leveled; structures with weak foundation blown some distance; cars thrown; large missiles generated.
Five (F5) Violent 260-318 mph Incredible damage. Strong frame houses lifted off foundations, carried considerable distances, and disintegrated; auto-sized missiles airborne for several hundred feet or more; trees debarked.
Tornados cause much more wind damage than hurricanes. What is often seen in hurricane damage is storm surge damage.
allegorical oracle
(6,479 posts)got state permission to dredge up the ocean bottom north of Ft. Meyers to build Cape Coral and Lehigh Acres. The "lots" being sold were initially underwater -- and northerners were buying them sight-unseen. The St. Pete paper wrote a stinging series titled The Swamp Peddlers that put a stop to that practice and developers could sell only so-called "finger fills" that were above sea level. But they're not much above about three feet. Sadly, those are among areas that Ian hit hardest.
jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)I speak of " developers". They and their business is the primary source of economy for the upper middle classes throughout the state.
When they turn their engineers onto the hunt for profits the ecological disaster and human horror is set loose. Every sq in of property will have the absolute greatest money wrung from it. Sand bar islands, those that were developed before the concept of environmentalism are the worst. That section of Florida's coastal settlements in the southwest is arguably the state's best example of irresponsible development.
PatSeg
(53,214 posts)I lived in Florida for a short time many years ago. It certainly has changed a lot since then. It is like watching ants - their homes get destroyed in a heartbeat and they just build again.
I have some good memories of living in Florida in a simpler time, but I'd never go back even to visit. Between weather, tourists, and politics, it has become a nightmare.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)Phoenix61
(18,828 posts)in the Panhandle. When they say, ‘mandatory evacuation” I leave. They aren’t saying it to be jerks. They are trying to save your life. Resources are limited and the more of those they can use to take care of those responding to the storm the sooner utilities come back on line. If I moved someplace with snow and ice storms I’d have to learn a different set of survival skills.
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)Schools and business's may be closed but that's about it. It's more of a problem further south where they are not equipped for snow removal. What we in the north would consider just an average winter day can shut down large areas further south.
Mariana
(15,624 posts)With a bad snow or ice storm, you better know how to keep yourself warm without electricity, and without setting the house on fire, or dying of carbon monoxide poisoning. In Texas when they had that crazy freeze, people died because they didn't know how to do that.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01/02/texas-winter-storm-final-death-toll-246/
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)And comparing a routine blizzard in the north, which is something most people here take in stride, with running for your life from a Cat 5 hurricane isn't the same thing
TheBeam19
(344 posts)by a Cat-1 hurricane with the completely unscientific name of “Superstorm” Sandy. Storms with that kind of power have hit places all over the world; the difference in that case was the infrastructure sucked and the people were ignorant of how to prepare and respond.
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)I live in the Upper Midwest. It's been well known for decades that the coasts will be hard hit by climate change.as sea levels rise and storms intensify.
TheBeam19
(344 posts)there are never any tornadoes, floods, winter storms, heat waves, or droughts, and as a result neither insurance companies nor the government has ever had to spend a single dime on helping with the recovery, and nothing has ever shut down. That’s amazing.
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)wild fires, hurricanes, deadly wet bulb temperatures, tornadoes and such.
It's predicted summers will get warmer here, the growing season will get longer and winters become more mild. That's probably why reputable experts predict the Great Lakes region will become a climate change refuge for those fleeing sea rise, hurricanes, wild fires, tornadoes, dangerous wet bulb temps and flooding.
TheBeam19
(344 posts)I hope to one day live in a part of the world like that, where no serious natural disasters have ever taken place nor will ever take place that costs anyone money or a moment’s inconvenience. Sounds like a good recommendation.
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)Which you will if you take climate change seriously.
GreenWave
(12,640 posts)People mocked this storm. It whirlygigged in the Atlantic and gained incredible strength. Cat 5 IIRC then it hit south Florida and buzz sawed it like a giant lawn mower. 50 ft. tall trees were uprooted and deposited on top of other 50 ft. trees. Animals escaped from the zoo. Even predators were found still shaking.
But another big problem is Florida is caving in. Sinkholes emerge.
You have fire ants aplenty, the scourge of the South. Mole crickets will eat your lawn.
And those pesky Florida men live there and Florida women too!
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,782 posts)from friends who have lived there. Nice place to visit but this hillbilly likes him some mountains, big hardwood trees and a little snow in the winter.
I do try to respect whatever makes people happy so long as they don't screw with Mother Nature.
KY
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)Hurricane Andy. I remember it well. I was working in loss mitigation at a mortgage company then. Boy was that a cluster. Insurers stopped insuring homes all across the county because of the costs of that one. It's was the start of insurance stopping water damage coverage in your homeowners policy and started selling it as an add on for a huge jump in premiums. I lived in Texas at the time and Farmers, State Farm and Allstate all stopped insuring homes in Texas because of the hurricane in Florida. WTF!
Leghorn21
(14,090 posts)I heartily agree with all you have written, thanks for your time and effort! 
yardwork
(69,360 posts)I enjoy visiting the beach but I know I wouldn't want to live there. It's just not for me.
betsuni
(29,074 posts)
Irish_Dem
(81,242 posts)My brother retired to Fiji and was living there when a Cat 5 hit the islands.
He is a well trained, licensed engineer and was a medic in the US Army when younger, so he rushed to the outer islands to help as soon as the storm stopped. Everyone on the main island hunkers down in bunkers during a storm, so they were fine.
(Of course my brother refused to go to the bunkers, he was worried about his boat. As is the custom during a storm, he took his boat to the mangrove tree forest, tied it down and rode out the storm. But that is another story to be filed under stubborn hard headed Irish males.)
It was a Cat 5 storm and he expected the worst, so after the storm, he and a friend boated out to the outer islands, expecting horrific injuries and loss of life. Even though he had been an Army medic, his heart was in his mouth as they approached the other islands and saw all the huts totally flattened, he was sorting out his medical first aid gear fearing the worst.
He was shocked to see the kids jump in the water to come to his boat (Fiji tradition). They all looked hale and hearty.
He asked them how bad the death/injuries were and the kids said that everyone is fine!
When they landed at the island, all the infrastructure was demolished, huts, water and sewage supply, etc. But the people were totally fine, no deaths, no injuries. And actually in good spirits. They have a place they go when a storm comes, some sort of protective shelters.
So my brother put away his medical kits, and got out his tool box.
That is a terrific story. I’d love to hear more about what kind of shelters they were. Your brother sounds like an awesome human. Thanks for that window into life
Irish_Dem
(81,242 posts)Actually what he did was totally natural.
We grew up as US Air Force kids, dad was career military.
We know that when there is a disaster, you pitch in to help.
It is automatic, you don't even think about it.
And he is a highly trained engineer with medic experience, so it was a no brainer.
As I recall the islanders built protective structures with trees, earth, dug into the earth.
There are certain areas on the islands that are safer than others so they build them there.
Irish_Dem
(81,242 posts)He lived on a boat in Fiji at the time and was very attached to his boat.
He was willing to risk his life to save it.
(Later some of our cousins and I had a few words to say to him about his foolhardiness.)
Apparently the thing to be done to try to save your boat during a storm is to go to a mangrove forest on the island, tie your boat to the trees and ride out the storm.
So my brother sat on his boat all by himself during a cat 5 storm, tied to trees in a water mangrove area.
My brother brought along two six packs of beer and some cigarettes, even though he had stopped smoking decades ago.
So he sat there drinking his beer and smoking cigarettes, contemplating his life.
My brother is not fanciful nor given to imaginary hyperbole. But he said that the storm, Cyclone Winston, was like
an entity of its own. Like a monster bearing down on him and his boat.
After many hours, the storm was over. His boat got beaten up a bit. So he and the boat were badly shaken but fine.
Pinback
(13,600 posts)Sounds like something out of a Carl Hiaasen novel.
Irish_Dem
(81,242 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 30, 2022, 07:40 PM - Edit history (1)
It blew my mind when he talked about how he felt like he was in a personal fight with Cyclone Winston the monster.
The end of the story is a bit weird too.
He is coming back to harbor after the storm and people are shocked and rattled. A big boat comes speeding towards
him, certain to hit him head on and probably kill him. He is thinking in that split second that he survived death just
to get killed the next day.
Out of nowhere a smaller boat speeds up to the big boat and diverts it away from my brother.
He never saw either boat before or since, and it is a small harbor.
He beat death twice in less than one day.
The other interesting piece of the story is the aftermath of repair and clean up.
My brother volunteered with various international disaster organizations and with his engineering background was
assigned to rebuilding infrastructure.
He met some very young Europeans who had college degrees in Disaster Relief. I don't think we have those degrees in the US.
One young woman, barely 22 was some sort of genius. She could go for example, look at a destroyed water system and just know how to fix it very quickly and cheaply. Even though the storm had completed changed the terrain and destroyed the infrastructure.
My brother worked with her. He is an older, very experienced field engineer and she would come to him and ask him to work on projects, she would ask him to do such and such. He would say sure I can do it, but I don't understand what you are doing.
She would explain and he realized she was some sort of engineering genius. She called him from time to time to work on special projects.
Pinback
(13,600 posts)Thanks for telling them. Glad your brother dodged two cannonballs and had such a cool experience with that young genius engineer.
It certainly was one of the most memorable events of his life.
And he has done some very interesting things.
LeftInTX
(34,284 posts)Storm surge is the big killer.
Deep continental shelves mean much less storm surge.
Ironically, winds themselves in hurricanes are not the big killer.
The Gulf of Mexico has the worst storm surge in the US due to the extremely shallow continental shelf. (It is probably one of the most storm surge prone areas in the world) The land near the GOM coast tends to be flat for quite a distance inland. Florida and Louisiana are the flattest states. However, Houston is at 44 feet elevation, which is generally considered high enough to protect from the worst storm surge, as long as flood prone areas are evacuated. Orlando is at 82 feet.
https://en-ca.topographic-map.com/maps/f64p/Florida/
Irish_Dem
(81,242 posts)TigressDem
(5,126 posts)I grew up in California, so wild fires, mudslides, heat waves, smog and earthquakes are more my cup of tea.
I was working part time at the college while I attended and so came early, parked and did a double shift basically. BUT in the summer, the parking lot (black asphalt) turned on me. It looked new and shinny, but with my work heels I sunk down about an inch each time I stepped as I walked to my car and had to carry something to keep from burning my hand on the car door handle.
Where I lived was pretty awesome, though. There was a pool. But had to keep jumping out whenever electrical storms decided to zoom over every couple of hours.
Drove down to Key West on 7 Mile Bridge (BEFORE they made it wider) and stopped at Duck Key to let the little guy play in the water because it was wading depth for about 20 feet. Again, the weather was different every 5-10 minutes on the way down. CRAZY.
IF DeSatan ever steps down and a less dictator type is elected, I'll snow bird it and visit in winter. But year round? Nah. Even 30 below zero is preferable. Layers, ya' know?
GoneOffShore
(18,020 posts)MOMFUDSKI
(7,080 posts)I live on a barrier island (Treasure Island - you know it well) for the last 24 years and have lived in Florida the last 34 years. We did evacuate to Lakeland for Ian and then hightailed it back when it looked like it would come for Lakeland, which it did. But this is the first time I am having serious thoughts about selling our condo. It is 10 feet above sea level, and 3 blocks from the Gulf waves. At age 75 it becomes harder and harder to deal with packing, leaving, returning. All the time worrying you will be homeless. I despise the terrible winters in Wisconsin from which I came and the thought of going back is not appealing at all. But the threat of being homeless is as bad. I will be mulling it all over now. My husband has a cavalier attitude so hard to discuss this with him. We did discuss taking our 400,000K from the sale of the condo and moving to a trailer here.
If that gets taken out by a 'cane then you just buy a new one and you have the cash to do it. A quandary. No bashing from me.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)Safest place to be during a hurricane. If you wanna go to the beach, you drive an hour. It really is a great place to be.
radical noodle
(10,595 posts)and we live not far from there (but NOT in The Villages). Easy drive to the beach, more reasonable insurance prices, and the worst worry in a hurricane is (for us, anyway) losing power which has happened only once since we've been here.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)Occasionally from different other events we lose it. I also do not live in the villages, but 10 miles away from them I’m on 27 going towards Clermont.
radical noodle
(10,595 posts)Irma got our power but that's the only time. Bought my car in Leesburg and a neighbor is a native Leesburg peep.
I am extraordinarily cold-natured and was miserable in Indiana between November and April. I'll take the heat of summer here any day. The politics weren't any better in Indiana than here, either.
I do try to respect the environment, and I'll agree with the OP about the wisdom or lack thereof of living on the coast if one is not prepared adequately to do so.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)dembotoz
(16,922 posts)a different world
here in wisconsin, homeowner insurance is something you have to have but it doesn't cost much. Almost an afterthought.
It is bundled with my car insurance and is always the minor insurance bill i pay.
I also carry a flood insurance fema policy because it is really quite cheap and my place is on sort of a small lake. I carry it mostly because I do not trust the red county government not to screw up the flood plains with their desire to plop a subdivision every 10 ft.
So i am probably over insured...and i don't really even feel any pain when i pay the premium.
Yes it sucks up here in winter, but like i said
a different world
I understand lots of folks can not get or afford insurance down there...wow
MOMFUDSKI
(7,080 posts)My father-in-law lived there until he died some years back. I am a big city kind of gal. But am happy to hear that you are comfortable with your choice of where to live.
EX500rider
(12,581 posts)We had it till 2017, I lived there off and on since 1962, 120 Av & Sunshine Lane, the little beach house with all the pine trees next to the Shake Shop.
Loved it there, back in the '60's we used to drive our jeep on the beach..lol
Joinfortmill
(21,157 posts)
DownriverDem
(7,014 posts)was totally wiped out. He had no insurance. He sent a video and it looks like a tornado hit. Thankfully he and his wife left the area before it hit. Having said that, I would never live in Florida or the south. It will take too long for the politics to change if ever.
moonshinegnomie
(4,016 posts)hurricanes were the reason we said no to florida. the idea of evacuating with our cew of critters made it an automatic no.
texas can get severe weather. but in florida its going to happen. 100% chance you will be hit by a hurricane at some time. and theres nothing you can do to stop it
MOMFUDSKI
(7,080 posts)That is crazy lucky. Folklore here says Pinellas County is 'protected' by the original natives - the Indians. The County has many Indian mounds (burial places) and so far, so good.
dalton99a
(94,109 posts)
Katinfl
(814 posts)Been here since 2005. For the most part I like it but mainly because of the weather. We moved here from NC and will probably end up back there at some time in the future. The thing about these storms is that they never seem to learn anything from them. In time the shoreline will be all built again and the taxpayers will again have to bail out the builders and homebuyers. Until FL wakes up and realizes this cannot continue, I fear the same mistakes will continue. The storms will get stronger and more frequent and the damages will continue to be greater and they won’t learn. IMHO.
doc03
(39,085 posts)I would go to Florida every winter for 2 or 3 weeks. I went to a different area every year and
found I liked the St. Pete area most. All the single family homes that were affordable I looked at were run down properties
with serious issues in a crime ridden neighborhood. To get a home where you are safe you have to live behind a wall.
You move into one of the mobile home retirement communities or a condo you are at the mercy of the HOA telling you
what color you have to paint your driveway and raising their fees every year. The last year I went down was in 2019
by then realized it wasn't for me, every year the traffic got worse and housing prices had exploded in the last 10 years.
One of the best decisions I have ever made is not moving to Florida. Here in Ohio I have my own property I do my own
maintenance and don 't have anyone dictating what I can or can't do. I don't have to live in a gated community to be safe,
the summers aren't unbearably hot. I like the seasons, we rarely have any real severe weather, not a worry of losing everything in a hurricane every year. Florida is a nice place to visit but to live there, not for me. My parents moved to Florida when they retied they
thought it was paradise at first. They went through 2 hurricanes, the unbearable summers, tripled HOA fees and ended up coming back north after 5 years.
MOMFUDSKI
(7,080 posts)I was willing to take the risk but in my older age - not so much.
Lonestarblue
(13,474 posts)Especially now, with climate warming causing hurricanes to be more dangerous and damaging. I absolutely believe in using taxpayer money to help the people who suffer stoma like Ian.
What concerns me, though, are the millions of people who do not have insurance either because it is too expensive or they simply can’t get it for areas prone to flooding. Why should taxpayers fund their rebuilding in the same places that will need to be rebuilt in a few years from the next storm?
Here in Austin, we have an area around Onion Creek that frequently floods and destroys homes. The government helped people rebuild in exactly the same spots until finally someone said enough. The government bought several of these properties, and now no homes stand there. That seems a better use of taxpayer money than just paying to rebuild in the same spots over and over.
MOMFUDSKI
(7,080 posts)has rebuilt REPEATLY for the rich on the coast. Makes me sick.
moonshinegnomie
(4,016 posts)flood insurance is provided by the federal government. there should be a liit on major flood claims say 2 over a 30 year period. after claim #2 you should no longer be eligible for goverment sponsored insurance and instead should have to get it from private sources at whatever price they want to charge.
this will deter people from building in major flood areas
Duppers
(28,469 posts)
calimary
(90,010 posts)The government did the right thing buying up those properties and taking the houses out.
I’m grateful I don’t live there.
Just saw a report about rescuers checking for people to evacuate from Sanibel island and the husband was ready to go and the wife hollered down “I’m not ready to go” - and sheesh! Whaddya do?
I’m guessing the rescuers probably moved on - so many others out there ready and probably desperate for rescue. I guess you head off to help THEM, instead. That poor husband! I feel bad for him. Stubborn wife. I hope she doesn’t cost them both their lives.
Tadpole Raisin
(1,977 posts)There are many tips this is coming even though the draw remains strong.
One is the number of insurance companies who will no longer insure homes in Florida or have gone out of business doing so. I am no lover of insurance companies - think they are pretty good at the art of deception when it comes to inflating their costs and minimizing their profits but the fact is that a 1-2 disasters can wipe them out.
I am most familiar with USAA who stopped insuring Florida years ago. I sometimes wonder with their military connections what high level weather projections they may have seen which we have not even with what has been put out there in the public.
How many companies will pay for repairs and then in the next renewal withdraw as a carrier. Try to sell your house then! All that will be left are people who know their house will not be covered for the next storm and just accept it and the rich who will have politicians giving them favored treatment for their luxury businesses or homes. 20 years, 50 years?
They say you don’t have to prepare for ‘the end’ but the transition. We are well into the transition.
Chalco
(1,439 posts)I grew up in South Florida. Hurricanes were just a fact of life. Got used to it.
Lost electricity maybe, that's it.
Moved to Maryland at age 26, suburb of DC, had to get used to snowstorms, losing
electricity, spring and fall changes.
Moved back to South Florida at age 70. Live in a detached home in Delray Beach
15 minutes from the beach. Not in a flood zone. Live on a lake. No flooding. No snow.
Birds and ducks in the backyard. Vote democratic. Work for gun control, against
DeSatan. Found like minded people. Although the cultural climate here is not as
plentiful as in Maryland, we've found our peeps: Jazz afficionados, book clubs,
theater venues, writing groups. (Hub and I are both writers.)
Don't live on the beach. We live 15 minutes a day and about once a week
we spend happy hour on the beach. What could be better than that?
allegorical oracle
(6,479 posts)cabin across the road from the beach, maybe 50 feet N of the long pier. Fla's history is one of people moving in and doing their level best to make over the native habitats into what they left. Have no problem with cultural diversity -- but leave native ecology alone. Live with it. Relax, enjoy the good and roll with the bad. And do not buy/build homes on the beaches or the barrier islands, or one day you may need to be rescued.
Emile
(42,281 posts)I set foot in the state was 1976 to go to my mother's funeral. The whole state of Florida is nothing more than a sand bar that juts out into the ocean. That explains why you hear of sink holes swallowing up houses. Oceans are rising and this sand bar will soon be under water. Oceans are warming and more and more powerful hurricanes are destroying the state. What was once called the storm of the century, is almost now a yearly event. My advice is get out now!
Marthe48
(23,174 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 30, 2022, 03:45 PM - Edit history (1)
Ancient people respected their surroundings and we've lost that. Many cultures built temples to sanctify certain places. Forests, hills, rivers, and other natural features were made holy and people offered gifts if they visited the area. Trees were sacred and each housed a god. Springs were holy and in Greek culture, each spring had certan qualities that could cure specific ailments. But humankind has moved from a polytheistic outlook of our world to a monotheistic point of view. Earlier mankind had rituals to cut living trees, getting permission to fell each one. Now, we clear cut. And we have come to ignore the devastating effects our actions are having on the environment. In the name of the almighty dollar, we are killing the planet and most life forms on it. Our idea of communing with nature is rolling the car windows down on the way to the gym.
We moved to Marietta, Oh. in 1989. We were dimly aware that the Ohio River flooded, but the lock and dam system was operating, and we didn't think of 100 year floods or really anything about floods. We bought a house we liked, and thank goodness it is above flood level. Since we've lived here, we've had several major floods. Hurricane Hugo delayed our move here for almost 2 weeks, because it hit Charleston, WV, where our loan was processed and knocked out power. We've lived through seasonal flooding, 2 or 3 other hurricane related floods. I remember being out in my back yard in 8" of water, and more rain coming down, digging a trench to get the water away from the house. Years ago, I learned there are unofficial river watchers who understand the Ohio better than the professionals. When they say get your animals off the fair grounds, you better listen. One year, people chose to listen to the pros, and they had to make their horses swim out of the barns to high ground. In downtown Marietta, when we know we're going to get high water, you either see people moving their store stock to high ground before the water arrives, or you see people, many of them volunteers from Marietta College, carrying stuff out in waist high water. We live in the Muskingum River Watershed. Even though our house is on high ground, every person in the district has to pay a watershed tax to offset the cost of water damage, stream maintenance and so on. We are expecting 1-2" of rain from Ian. That will cause some flooding here, not like in Florida, or the Carolinas. But even if we know how bad if can be, we can't prevent the rain coming, the rivers rising, or the damage that will result.
When I say professionals vs. unofficial river watchers, there are locl people who have lived by this river their whole lives, love it, respect it, know it. As opposed to people using remote applications to gauge how high the water is going to rise, who haven't aligned the hard and fast scienific techniques with hands-on lore. We can and should use both.
All I can do from my place is hope the death toll in Fl isn't as high as they think it'll be, and I hope the Carolinas fare well.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Never too cold in the winter, never too hot in the summer. I'd like a bit more rain, sometimes it comes,
sometimes not. No flooding, no hurricanes, no tornados, just pleasant most of the time. I complain about
the wind in the spring, and the plant allergies I get in the summer, but when you watch a thunder storm,
it seems magnificent. The close Huachuca Mts are named Mountains of Thunder by the Apache. Not much
culturally in the nearby town, but I have lots of space. I've been here 40 years, I think I'll stay.
rubbersole
(11,222 posts)Hurricane Donna came through in 1960 and was a life changing event for an 8 year old. We were in Orlando, center of the state, knew it was coming but nothing like the lead time we have now. The worst part was overnight. The house was shaking. My single mom, older brother, cocker spaniel and me sitting on the living room couch listening to the freight train roaring past the house for 10 hours. Petrified. The neighbors across the street had a spotlight they would shine on their willow type tree every so often. It was bent over slapping the ground. Everything blowing past sideways. When morning came and we were finally able to go outside, there were grapefruit all over the yard. There wasn't a grapefruit tree within two miles of the house.
When a hurricane comes near Florida we are as prepared as anyone. You can't respect these storms enough. Now they all have the ability to become monsters overnight. And change direction at any moment. "Dangerous" isn't apt enough. Just a reminder from mother nature that humans aren't running the show. We're just fucking it up.
slater71
(1,153 posts)But be prepared for your house insurance cost. I paid 3800 dollars a year was 5 miles off the ocean and was in a full brick home. I hate to see what the cost would be now. Glad I got out because the insurance will be almost impossible to get. You can also add about 800 dollars a year for flood insurance.
cilla4progress
(26,525 posts)the inland dry mountains in the Pacific NW where I live, Cheezo.
If you live here you must understand and respect what nature demands of you: living with the risk of wildfire - which means limbing, thinning, maintaining your tree stand; dealing with wildfire smoke for some portion of the year; accepting the wildies that are our neighbors and not calling for every cougar sighted to be snuffed out and the mosquitoes on the river that the fish and birds rely on to be poisoned out of existence for your convenience!
I hear you and I agree! No bashing here.
Really appreciate your writing, too!
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)I tried Tampa for a year.
The giant size cockroachs drove me out no matter how many times my sweet elderly neighbor told me
"It's part of.living here."
LeftInTX
(34,284 posts)I have roach phobia.
I do use what many would think are toxic chemicals to control them. I buy specialty products, since the exterminator's quarterly sprays weren't accomplishing anything. I even have holes drilled in walls and inject chemicals in them. My phobia is so bad that roaches were controlling my life. I couldn't live with them. Killing a large "American Cockroach aka Palmetto Bug" is really not an option. The move to fast to stomp AND it takes a can of Raid to kill one..LOL And if you see one there are hundreds living and mating in your walls. When we had our siding changed, you could entry areas and egg cases in window sills etc.
I don't care if I use poison. I would rather die of cancer than deal with a roach in my house. My phobia is that bad.
We also have other critter issues here: rats and raccoons.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Peanut butter colored paste, comes in a large syringe and you squeeze a pea size drop which they nibble on and go back to die in their nest where other roaches die from eating the dead roach.
Looking online I see. Combat MAX is rated #1 on a lot of sites.
I've used similar successfully. I'd put on small filing cards and slip under stove, sinks, cabinets, room corners, bathroom, closets, and near books.
Google roach baits for more
LeftInTX
(34,284 posts)I do use them outdoors however, 4 feet away from the house. This is what is recommended for large roaches. I put them under my deck, on tree trunks, in vegetation.
I have had the best luck with pyrethroid products injected into the wall. I found that BASF powder bait, which is the most effective for large roaches didn't do the job as well. You are not supposed to use baits in close proximity to pyrethroid products. Using the products too close to each other can cause resistance and avoidance of the bait.
So, if I went with baits only, I can see myself freaking out. Also baits can attract roaches short term...and I'm so afraid, that I couldn't deal with it. Baits are the preferred treatment for small roaches (german cockroaches)
I have also used insect growth regulators, over a period of several years, but based on the roaches I have seen, the roaches were not in contact with the IGR. Everyone says, "You will see deformed roaches". I never saw a deformed roach, which indicates to me that the roaches were not in the area where I had applied the IGR (And I applied it everywhere, inside the 4 perimeter of my home) I applied to all the areas in the windowsills where I saw the egg casings and injected it into the walls, I also put it in all the sprays. However any roach that I saw was perfectly formed. So there may have been a few deformed roaches, I just didn't see them. American Cockroaches live in sewers and outdoors. I had an infestation when my tub drain had issues.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Drain hole covers which have a fine screen like window screen so water drainss out but bugs don't get out from the sewer and into my apartment.
Yes with bait at first you see a lot of roach's.
The bait I used said keep it 6 feet apart.
Have no recollection of the name.
Been in a nursing home since Easter.
LeftInTX
(34,284 posts)We did not use the tub. Still every night we had up to 20 American Cockroach new born nymphs in the bathroom.
What happened was the drain had broken. (We did not know it was broken!) Roaches were coming in and getting into the tub pan (don't know if that is the name) They were laying eggs in the moist void. The nymphs were crawling out from the tiniest of cracks. (Still couldn't figure out which ones) I put blue tape and putty between the baseboard and floor. We re-caulked wherever we could. My bathroom still consists of blue tape and putty. Every conceivable crack was closed, but still every night, new roaches emerged. A few months later, we decided to have a broken stopper trigger/shutter repaired on the tub. That was when we learned that the drain pipe had was disconnected.
Roaches had free entry from the sewer into all of our walls! After the drain was repaired, we saw a significant decrease.
moonscape
(5,722 posts)on a creek in a redwood forest there were plenty of them and I used to feed them dog kibble.
There were two that I named Gar and Bage, and Gar and I became great friends. She brought her kits, I let her come in the cottage and would feed her by hand. Getting o know her kits and watching their dynamic was such fun. Great memories 
LeftInTX
(34,284 posts)They are wild animals and need to stay that way. Please do not feed them!
They carry diseases and rabies. Their poop carries a roundworm parasite. They can also be destructive. We have one that has poop the size of a large dog. That thing gets on our roof nightly and it's so big that it sounds like fireworks when he is on our roof. They use our roof as a "latrine". (Yep, they gather and poop on our roof)
If a raccoon ever figures out how to get in your house, you are stuck and they are vicious. They were trying to get in via our chimney. We closed the chimney off.
Depending on where the larvae migrate, Baylisascaris infection can affect the brain and spinal cord (neural larva migrans), the eye (ocular larva migrans), and/or other organs (visceral larva migrans).
Signs and symptoms depend on how many eggs are ingested and where in the body the larvae migrate (travel). Ingesting a few eggs may cause few or no symptoms, while ingesting large numbers of eggs may lead to serious symptoms. Signs and symptoms of infection may take a week or so to develop and may include the following:
Nausea
Tiredness
Liver enlargement
Loss of coordination
Lack of attention to people and surroundings
Loss of muscle control
Blindness
Comahttps://www.cdc.gov/parasites/baylisascaris/disease.html
https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/baylisascaris/resources/raccoonlatrines.pdf
Do not keep, feed, or adopt wild animals, including raccoons, as pets. Infection rarely causes symptoms in raccoons, so you cannot tell if a raccoon is infected by observing its behavior. Roundworm eggs passed in the feces of infected raccoons are not visible to the naked eye. Eggs can only be seen using a microscope. You may discourage raccoons from living in and around your home or parks by taking the following steps:
Prevent access to food
Keep trash containers tightly closed
Close off access to attics and basements
Keep sandboxes covered when not in use (raccoons may use sandboxes as a latrine)
Remove fish ponds — they eat the fish and drink the water
Eliminate water sources
Remove bird feeders
Clear brush so raccoons are not likely to make a den on your property
Dogs
Dogs may be infected with adult B. procyonis roundworms but may not show symptoms. Have all pets de-wormed under a veterinarian’s supervision and take precautions to avoid contact with their feces.https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/baylisascaris/prevent.html#:~:text=Raccoon%20feces%20can%20also%20be,seeds%20or%20other%20food%20items.
https://news.uga.edu/deadly-raccoon-roundworm-can-infect-humans-without-symptoms/
http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74116.html
Raccoons may be cute, but they are a wild carnivore, omnivore. Their use of "hands" makes it easy for these wild animals to adapt and encroach to our lifestyle.
moonscape
(5,722 posts)different. I no longer live in the forest so those days are over, much to my sadness and your comfort
LeftInTX
(34,284 posts)I have not had an interaction except them trying to access my chimney and pooping on our roof and in our yard. Their populations are exploding because they can cohabitate so easily with people.
When I moved here 30 years ago, I never saw them. However, they thrive on garbage, scraps and gardens.
Closest relative is a bear. They're cute and probably nice at a distance, but they are just as wild as a coyote, fox or skunk.
There is a documentary called Racoon Nation. Like Coyotes, raccoons thrive on people.
Paper Roses
(7,632 posts)Snakes and alligators. Not for this old timer. I'll freeze this winter but at least I won't be blown away or have creepy-crawly nasty things in my yard.
lark
(26,080 posts)I agree with you. It's hot here, like really hot and getting hotter. If you can't stand the heat, etc. If you can't stand sweating, don't come here. Again, it's freaky hot. Like from March - Oct. hot, hot, hot, the only change is the rain and wind. Also mosquitos and yellow flies are horrible here and getting worse since we don't have enough winter in NE FL anymore. Did I mention hot? Well, it's not just hot, it's actually steamy on summer days when it rains early,
We also get lots of rain. Don't move here unless you know how to drive in rain and don't freeze up and cause accidents. You have to know when to pull over and wait out the storm when on the road - key survival skill. Also have to know to never drive in standing water if you arent 100% sure of the area - good way to drown.
Also don't move here if you are a right wing seditionists or MAGAT - same thing. There are far too many non-native assholes who have moved here and fucked us up. We weren't chock full of seditionists in the past, the billionaires have taken over the state and messed it up on purpose for the working class/poor.
Our area is an old growth oak forrest, we have 1/3 acre lot and over 20 large oak trees, 2 of which are dangerous and need to go. We are considering buying at Latitudes Margaritaville because it's safer, but not sure about Daytona. We've got 2 years to decide. Jax is a more safe location, but our trees, which are gorgeous, cause me concern in this climate changed world we're heading into. Praying for wisdom to make a good decision.
Scrivener7
(59,513 posts)definition, mostly wealthy. They want their waterfront. And they want the rest of us to have to pay to rebuild it when the storms come.
People like to talk about climate change. But no one is really willing to live like it matters.
llmart
(17,614 posts)I live amongst Michiganders in a neighborhood with mostly retired people. In the winter there are quite a few of them that own condos or trailers in Florida and they go there in November/December and don't come back until May. These people aren't what I would consider wealthy. They were mostly white collar professionals but so was I. My son lives in Orlando and he has lived in several states and in Europe and he absolutely hates the weather most of the year except for around November until March. He said most of the out of state license plates are from Ohio and Michigan. I know he'd leave in a heartbeat except for he has a terrific job that he loves and that's what moved him there.
A few of my neighbors tried the part time Florida experience and then once the novelty wore off they decided to sell their Florida place. One couple told me they hate it that it can start getting hot in April. I've been to Florida many times but I always said I would never live there and I still feel that way. In one of my jobs I was offered a transfer to the Tampa area with a wonderful move package and bennies and I turned it down.
Quakerfriend
(5,882 posts)We need to prohibit building along coastal areas-
let’s see if that ever happens. 
grantcart
(53,061 posts)A doctor recently died doing a hike in 110 weather.
Last year a guy from NY took a stupid hike risk and had to be rescued.
Next day they had to send in a helicopter a second time in 2 days.
Hubris.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)in my part of Texas we are hoping that Congress will pass funding for the Ike Dike. 14 years ago, Hurricane Ike destroyed a large part of Galveston. The local paper did a piece with picture of Galveston after Ike and these pictures reminded me of Fort Meyers
Link to tweet
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/projects/2022/visuals/hurricane-ike-galveston-photos/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=
Ike missed going up the Houston ship channel (Houston is a major port city) and if Ike had hit the ship channel the right angle there would have been storm surge in a wide area including along a couple of the bayous. The Ike Dike will block or lessen the storm surge but this project if funded will take 10 years to complete
Climate change is real. People have been looking at how to protect Houston for 14 years and the result is the Ike Dike program
https://www.democraticunderground.com/107864054
My sister lives in Fort Meyers but she is in a condo that had no flooding in the garage. My sister also has a second home in North Carolina and she will see some of Ian.
Evolve Dammit
(21,774 posts)me at this point, and the politics are insane. But yeah, if you can't respect the ways of the natural world, don't complain when something bites you. Literally of figuratively.
amb123
(1,599 posts)Skittles
(171,701 posts)are you saying Floridians never make stupid choices?
phylny
(8,818 posts)governor aside, I would rent Florida for a short period of time but I wouldn’t move there. Just like I wouldn’t move to the Jersey shore or the Outer Banks.
Seven years ago my husband saw two of his friends buy condos in Fort Myers. He said we could buy one for $220,000 (at the time) and I said, “Or we could take a $20,000 vacation for the next ten years” which of course is a ridiculous sum.
Both friends’ condos are on the first floor and have 5’ of water in them.
Sogo
(7,191 posts)What a hell hole. Most people think the Midwest is hot and humid, but the heat and humidity in Florida in July was unbearable!
....except for the Miami Beach area with it's beautiful white beaches.
I'm sure Florida in the winter months has a beautiful climate, but it's damn crowded, so I'll take a lot of other places before I'd even consider living there for any part of the year, and especially year 'round....
As as far as the taxpayer picking up the tab for hurricaine damage year after year....that sucks.
leighbythesea2
(1,291 posts)In the Keys first. My SO made his living diving every day. We had a boat & a small business based out of the house. got a serious education from him about the oceans unintentional, but very real, ability to kill you at any time. many of my neighbors worked on the water. grew up boating on Lake Michigan, which is also not to be trifled with, so I took it to heart. And there were still so many times that circumstances looked like, or did, turn in an instant.
It’s incredibly beautiful on the water, awe inspiring,
magnified by the power.
We went thru Georges. The locals had stayed so many times, (bc no direct hits in forever) they were not the most evacuation-inclined bunch. Our landlords across the street were in their late 60s, and had been the 1st house on the island in the 1960s. I remember looking at an aerial view picture of their place from then, and it was pure white sand, no trees, or other houses. They stayed.
We prepped my employers place, our rental house, our boat and business, alone, then missed our chance out, as US 1, being 2 lanes—well we should’ve left.
Cat 2, eye wall the whole time. I vowed never again to stay. It’s all the stuff we are seeing, just not cat 4 level. 6 weeks later we had a tropical storm. Months of exhaustion.
I still love Florida. moved there again to Ft Myers in 2014, just off the Caloosahatche river. So have watched Ian with keen interest and horror.
read an article at CNN about how the population explosion of FL had made it a bigger and bigger bullseye. Yes, bigger storms and climate change, but also so many people & so much development. It was a thought provoking article, like your post.
I feel like living in FL is like hang-gliding or such. You’ve got this thing you can hold onto, and navigate, and WITH SKILL—-it’ll can be exhilarating! But don’t be a dummy and just grab on & think you can have a go of it. Training is required.
The Mouth
(3,414 posts)Where I live is *right* on a fault.
In the 52 years I've been here had 4 shakers, 2 that did serious damage.
It's not an *if*, its a fucking *when* and anyone too stupid to understand that is too stupid to live.
You prepare, you insure if you can, then you prepare some more.
The area around me has species of plants that literally REQUIRE a severe fire to propagate. And after 5000 homes burned here in 2017 (Santa Rosa) guess what- they rebuilt all the houses, same place; same place that burned in 1964, too.
I grew up here, not leaving now, but not expecting a lick of sympathy when the 8.3 hits, only a moron wouldn't have water and preps, but what are you going to do?
Is there any place pleasant to live in terms of climate and accessibility that doesn't have some potential catastrophe?
mchill
(1,188 posts)Your long time residents who expect to get bailed out time after time or just at some point because the inevitable storm surge from the inevitable hurricane reaches their property.
I can get very indignant about DeSantis and Rubio voting “no” for Sandy hurricane aid while expecting it for their state.
And I will kick myself if I’m not out of my house that sits in the wildland urban interface where fire is a matter of “when” and not “if” and I certainly I won’t rebuild here
People living in Florida cost all of us money. Most of it will be underwater in some of our lifetimes.
roamer65
(37,953 posts)Insurance companies simply CANNOT afford these repeated climate change fueled weather events, especially in hurricane zones.
I’m sure this is coming and it NEEDS TO happen. Insurance companies need to stop writing policies in the higher risk coastal areas of the US. If people want to live there they should sustain the loss themselves.
TheBeam19
(344 posts)or tornadoes or earthquakes or mud/landslides or fires or floods or….
roamer65
(37,953 posts)The current path is one of bankruptcy for them.
Changes need to be made.
Warpy
(114,614 posts)and the trouble with most of those folks is they got sold a false image of what the place is like by some motormouthed salesman at some point who talked on and on about the herbal romance of watching the moon rise or set over water, never mind most people get used to it and don't notice it at all after the first few months.
Florida is already risky in late summer and early fall. It's going to get a lot riskier as climate change proceeds, malaria and dengue are moving north, long with lesser known but no less nasty diseases.
Florida might have survived the cowboys, the orange groves, and a train taking rich people down to Miami. It won't survive those miles and miles and miles of suburban tract houses or that largely unbroken line of high rises that keeps people who live in those houses away from the beaches.
I was born there but left when I was still a baby. My parents took me there several times when I was growing up, so I've seen the changes over time, from mostly agriculture with a few resorts here and there to the mass marketed mess it is today. My parents retired there. I didn't see the attraction, so I'm living in the high desert, grateful I don't have to go back now that they're gone.
I don't think I could take it.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)Can u imagine what would happen if there was a fierce hurricane?
No thanks.
purr-rat beauty
(1,252 posts)while moving into areas that historically need taxes to rebuild
if you live in an area prone to natural cataclysm.....you pay for rebuilding
enjoy your stay and your responsibilities!
LT Barclay
(3,180 posts)standards and large buffer zones along the coasts.
oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)If you live on a coastal or river area & you lose your hime, then you get paid off but cannot rebuild on that land. Nor can anyone else. Not talking about inland areas where rains are the problem; those floods are going to happen just about anywhere. But continuing to allow people to rebuild ON A BEACH OR RIVERBANK is ridiculous.
I remember a story on 20/20 years ago about how many times some people had filed federal flood ins claims to just keep rebuilding. And the federal program isn't like a regular insurance company; its not built to make money so the taxpayers end up taking the hit
LT Barclay
(3,180 posts)to estates.
I agreed, once and done would help us clear those areas. I thought the "magic hand of the market" was going to do it when the insurance companies wanted to stop insuring all of FL.
GoodRaisin
(10,922 posts)while I was in the Navy. I'm not that fond of warm climates to begin with and summer boot camp in Orlando was enough to cure me of Florida. Also came back and spent another roughly 8 months at Naval Air Station in Jax where the weather was somewhat more tolerable. Haven't returned since and no desire to.
EX500rider
(12,581 posts)
applegrove
(132,207 posts)Beach, Clearwater, Florida. I could not look away from the sale. They were a block from the ocean. There 5 story condo unit may yet be standing but what will their weekend get away neighborhood be like. Will business and shops fold up because nobody will rebuild. So sad. They paid $415,000 for a little slice of heaven probably a few months ago. So trusting. I usually turn away from that show but somehow I could not tonight.
jerseyjim
(129 posts)victims of the hurricanes saying "I didn't think it would be this bad." Is that what you thought or is that something that someone like Tucker Carlson told you? If Fux News told its viewers to snort Comet scouring powder, they would do it.
samnsara
(18,767 posts)..and the humidity shorted out my cell phone. That was in perfect weather! If you want tropics move to Hawaii..personally Im a born and bred Pacific Northwest girl and this is where I will die.
Not to mention the personal freedoms I have here.....
malaise
(296,076 posts)The sad truth is that with these huge slow moving high end hurricanes full of rain, the entire Caribbean and states like Florida will also learn hard lessons about destroying the marshes and replacing them with high rise hotels and beach front homes..
Back to Florida - more than a few of the developers and politicians who approved these developments should be in prison