Hey all you DUers who think Florida residents deserve what happened because they chose to live here.

[Native]

Last edited Sat Oct 1, 2022, 12:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Have you read about how Charlotte and Lee County (the 2 hardest hit) decided to delay their mandatory evacuation order by a full day? Do you know that there is only one way out (75) and evacuations have to be staged? It's normally a 2.5 hour trip from our house to Ft Myers, but it took us 12 hours to drive my Aunt, Uncle, Cousin, and 4 dogs (2 registered service dogs) from their home to ours. Like many others in those 2 counties, they weren't given enough time to get out, and they didn't want to get stuck in a car in the storm. They are in their 80's and their homes were destroyed, waist high water. We had no problem getting there yesterday, but by the time we left, water was still rising in areas and 75 was blocked off. It took 12 hours of driving to get back because of the lack of alternate routes. No detours, no service personnel around to direct people to alternate routes, they just simply closed down a section of the one highway out.

[onecaliberal]

1. This is awful. I'm not happy about any of it, in any county, anywhere.

People are pointing out that the Governor of Florida voted no for aid for the same kind of disasters in NY and other states. You can’t blame people for being physically ill at the hypocrisy. Republicans don’t work for the people. Their own authorities don’t care. Ask Sandy victims what they think.

[Sympthsical]

5. Some people are saying a lot more than that

A lot more.

And it's been pretty much running commentary for them all week.

Dinging DeSantis is fine. But some have chosen this moment to shit all over Floridians in general.

[Native]

7. Way too many.

[Conjuay]

50. some of us

are here due to medical needs.

My wife has been on blood thinners so long that she keeps the house at 83* F.

Even Florida is often too cold for her.

[mcar]

16. People seem to love

jumping on the Florida sucks bandwagon, never considering how many good, decent people live here.

[Sympthsical]

19. I keep thinking of when the Hayward rips

Even though I literally live on top of another fault in the area, the Hayward ripping would take out the Bay Area pretty severely - one of the most liberal areas of the country.

I wonder if that were to happen if we'd see so many gleeful, tutting posts, "Well, they chose to live there. Fuck em!" sentiments here.

[mcar]

21. Towns get devastated by tornados every year

No one says, oh well, they knew the dangers.

[Ligyron]

142. They are largely Red states too ... full of people who gleefully voted it so.

There's more Democrats in Florida than in the home states of some people casting aspersion on this beautiful and unique area of the world. There are enough Dems here to elect people like Barrack Obama and Al Gore among others because it's real close in numbers but the Pugs have engineered rule by minority as they have in so many other states.

We certainly don't need any Dems to move out of the state if we're going to turn things around here and I believe we can too with some work. Having the third largest state go Blue (as it once was) would be a huge win for Dems, Democracy and everyone in the country (whether some of them like it or not).

To those who say they'll never go to Florida...fine, we don't want or need you. So many millions of people from around the world come to visit this gorgeous state and spend tons of money here each year that among other benefits, we have no need of an income tax.

We have enough narrow minded people here (as some have pointed out repeatedly) which is how people like Scott and DeSatan squeaked into office. We sure don't need any more.

Nobody asked me if I wanted to live here in the 1st place, I was born here. While I have visited and even lived in many other places around this world, I always came back and as a consequence have been treated to every hurricane here since Andrew ... and yet still I live.

Oh, I had two houses severely damaged by these storms, while myself and my family were inside even, but no one was hurt and we made out quite well with insurance money and rebuilt those homes back even better than before. Personally, I couldn't live without a warm, semi tropical ocean in which to swim, sail, surf and fish and we eat fresh seafood 5 nights a week between what I and my friends catch and trade with each other. I love having the house open to the fresh air half the year when my electric bill takes a serious nosedive.

Although some people apparently feel otherwise, seems like everyone else and their brother from around the country and beyond want to come visit , especially in the Winter for some odd reason, but then hey, they always insist on reciprocating and I gotta say, among the many other fascinating places and cultures in this world, Japan was amazing!

The positives far, far outway the bad in Florida and some people even love the heat and humidity.

[Scrivener7]

71. I seriously doubt they would. But if Hayward "ripped", say,

3 times in 10 years, the answer might be different.

Going forward, I do think these coastal Florida mansions in often hit areas should self-insure. As it is, insurance rates in some of these areas price out lower and middle income. So those people become homeless while the rich keep rebuilding.

[Sympthsical]

83. I think that's totally fair commentary

It feels like it's a discussion that's been happening for years. People buying luxury residences or summer homes in a highly disaster prone area and the government bailing them out after every inevitable event.

I don't think that conversation would even be controversial.

[lindysalsagal]

102. I agree. Those coastal homes should be considered

Temporary. It's a free country, and if people choose to take the risk every fall, then no one can stop them. I'd only keep a boat or trailer there, and remove it every September until hurricane season ends. Travel agents have always warned about coastal southwest travel in autunm.

[Scrivener7]

151. We agree. It isn't controversial. But it isn't stopping either.

I'm going to guess that some of our tax dollars will be going to fab Viking fridges and expanding those waterfront views.

When they should be going to relocating those middle and lower income people who have just lost everything.

[Native]

55. Thank you for this.

[The Bopper]

100. My perspective

As someone who lives in the midwest and has only seen videos of tornadoes in my 55 years of life. I wouldn’t purposely move to tornado alley or a river area that has multi-generational floods. I wouldn’t find an earthquake epicenter and think, man I’d move 2,000 miles to be right on it. I might visit those areas but I sure as heck wouldn’t move there and then be surprised when those things happen. That being said I would and am heading to Florida with a chainsaw and gas to help what little I can.

[calimary]

137. Welcome to DU, The Bopper!

Thank you for your chainsaw and gas - there are oodles of people who need help.

[calimary]

136. I don't claim to speak for anybody else here other than myself.

And I do not doubt that many good and decent people live in Florida.

But the long-range view is not good.

Over the next decades, we stand to lose large parts of the Sunshine State to the waters. The projections are not friendly. Low-lying land, on porous underpinnings susceptible to salt water. And the waters keep coming. Nothing will stop the Gulf or the ocean from eating away at the peninsula.

I was gonna start a thread about this. I'd really appreciate the thinking on this.

[Scrivener7]

152. What has long been inevitable is now actually happening. But people are still being

very slow to understand the ramifications.

[Polly Hennessey]

22. I have tried to call up some sympathy

for Florida but so far, nada. Sad to hear about your elderly relatives and the pets. Seems they have a winner in you and DU is better because of you.

[mahina]

23. I see it too and it is disgusting. Please consider that not everything is as it appears

And you can count on the divide and conquer keyboard infantry of Republicans and Republican operative to take the opportunity to pit us against each other. I don’t believe me at of those people are really Democrats.

Hearts up for beautiful Florida. I’m doing what I can to help and I trust others are as well

[obamanut2012]

59. Except they are longtime DUers saying this

Not "Republican operatives."

[mahina]

115. Ah well then shame on them. Also,

We’ve had at least one recent tombstoned DUers who were here since 2003! In disguise for 19 years.

But whoever they are, that’s a shame. I hope they figure it out.

[Polly Hennessey]

37. I have tried to call up some sympathy

for Florida but so far, nada. Sad to hear about your elderly relatives and the pets. Seems they have a winner in you and DU is better because of you.

[quaint]

86. I understand hard-heartedness against Florida but NOT against the residents.

Even if you hate the governor.

Republican Party of Florida 5,233,366
Florida Democratic Party 4,963,722

Under 5 years 945,823
5 to 9 years 1,031,718
10 to 14 years 1,057,024
15 to 19 years 1,014,067

[obamanut2012]

56. And attack good DUers

Like Pacifist Patriot, whom I have known for years, and is a lovely woman, and a strong liberal.

I'm close to MAL, and I am so fucking tiredvof people here lololollololol hoping itvus bombed, or a hurricane hits it. Wtaf

I am sick of it. It is like Waterworld and Dante's Inferno combined here now.

[ShazzieB]

81. What's MAL?

I haven't seen the posts you're talking about, but they sound terrible.

The closest thing I've seen are comments about the dangers of coastal areas and barrier islands in hurricane country getting so heavily built up and how those areas are a disaster waiting to happen, and I can't help but agree. I feel terrible for all the people who have lost their homes and had their lives upended, but I think the developers who made a fortune creating that situation have a lot to answer for.

[dchill]

87. Mar A Lago.

[ShazzieB]

108. OH. Thanks!

You'd think I could have figured that out, but I was honestly racking my brain! Duhh... 🤪

[dchill]

117. I puzzled it for a few days, myself!

[CaptainTruth]

68. This Floridian thanks you for your observation.

[BigDemVoter]

138. That is shitty. DeSantis deserves it 100%. But

the general population of the state does not.

[Walleye]

2. I don't feel that way at all, the children, for one thing had no choice where they live

[LonePirate]

3. Pretty much every part of the country is prone to some sort of natural disaster.

I won’t begrudge someone wanting or needing to live where they do.

That being said, I do find it interesting how DeSantis (presumably) ordered mandatory evacuations given how is he opposed to health related mandates and allegedly loves freedom above all else.

[Native]

6. Exactly. There is no safe place. You basically pick your poison at this point.

My favorite are the idiots who said things like, those people in Florida should have taken their cars to high ground if they were staying. Florida? High ground? So much ignorance in this world. And why I continue to be surprised by it is the mystery of my life.

[Historic NY]

70. I had relatives in Lake Placid Fl. twice they had heavy damage over the years

and thats dead smack in the middle of the state.

[csziggy]

111. In addition, some of the worst damage from winds was along the Lake Wales Ridge

The highest ground spine of Peninsular Florida.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wales_Ridge

Most of Florida is just not shaped to allow fast and easy evacuation. I live in the Panhandle of Florida. For me, it would be easy to get to Georgia - straight line I'm a little over five miles from the Georgia border - but being close to another state is no guarantee of being able to get to safety. Look at what happened to the Panhandle in Hurricane Michael.

I grew up in Central Florida, south of the Orlando area. My family didn't evacuate when Hurricane Donna hit in 1960 and our house survive (lots of damage but it survived). Then no major hurricanes hit that area for decades. My parents rode through the intense hurricane season of 2004 but it shocked them. With the eyes of Charley (CAT 4), Frances (CAT 4), and Jeanne (CAT 3) going directly over them, they had never seen anything like it - and my Dad had lived in that part of Florida since 1925, Mom since 1947.

[Ocelot II]

4. Nobody deserves to have their home destroyed. No matter where you live,

there's always the possibility of a natural disaster of some kind, and nobody deserves natural disasters. In the future maybe there should be disincentives for rebuilding at the same locations, since hurricanes are likely to become even larger and more frequent - but to blame people for living where they live is just mean.

[Phoenix61]

8. The easiest way to prevent rebuilding is to have FEMA

refuse to insure it. They wanted to build near me until FEMA said it wouldn’t cover the development and that was the end of that. FEMA has a 3 and done rule but I like the one and done for some areas.

[Baitball Blogger]

9. Florida governmental decisions over the past thirty years have been a nightmare.

Local and State. The usual suspects have worked very hard to deregulate growth management AND have infiltrated government to create the Republican wet dream of providing minimal services to the public.

My city is a prime example. We were a good 50 miles from the harsher Ian winds and water that luckily just tickled our feet as it swept across the state. We didn't get the torrential rain that we often see that floods the backyard, but we did see the steady rainfall which is just as bad sometimes when it just sits on you. It was enough to show the man-made damage CAUSED by poor decisions in city approvals. Just to get out of this city I had to avoid roadblocks because creeks were flooded. And I realized that it was a local problem because the next city over did not have the problems that we were faced with. There was a minor road block in just one area, and that was because that other city was enlarging a new retention pond which was still not complete.

I have yet to discover how many people were flooded out of their homes in the next city over, compared to our city. I heard that CNN posted video of one of the houses in this city with three feet of water. How can that be?

It's during these times that we can see the damage that local government did by making exceptions for development.

We didn't deserve this. But we also are living alongside of people who are too fucking dumb to realize how they're painting themselves in the corner.

[yardwork]

118. That's the frustrating part.

People vote for incompetent and/or corrupt officials who fight tooth and nail against any kind of evidence-based common sense regulation and planning. At the local, state and national levels, this country has too much poorly planned development in vulnerable areas, shoddy construction with no oversight, etc. it's not just Florida. It's everywhere. And we Democrats can be powerless when we're outvoted by idiots.

Every single American citizen was represented by President Trump, whether we voted for him or not. Were those of us who voted against him to blame? That's what it's like to blame Democrats in Florida.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. Contempt helps people feel like their choices are what have kept them safe.

[hamsterjill]

18. So well stated.

I’m stealing this one for future use.

Very well said.

[Demsrule86]

29. Well put. It gives folks the illusion that they have some control over these matters. We don't.

[Tree-Hugger]

30. This nt

[Doc Sportello]

11. A couple of problems with this

First, your headline doesn't match the perspective of the text. Your text is about evacuation issues while your headline is about the choice to live there and claims posters here are saying the deserve what they get. Two separate issues on the former and the latter is a claim that posters are saying "they deserved it" would be bad if true but which I haven't seen. Maybe it is true but there should have been a link to prove this charge.

If preparations weren't made to evacuate people properly than that certainly is on the local and state authorities, just like in Katrina. There should have been contingency plans with busses, other transportation for residents without the ability to evacuate and coordination to make it happen. Doesn't sound like there was.

[Native]

17. I wasn't writing an article for a newspaper. Sorry you have "issues" with my post.

I'll be sure to make the appropriate revisions to meet your approval after I deal with this disaster and actually spending my time helping people. Yeah, not gonna appease you.

[Polly Hennessey]

34. No one has issues with your post.

It seems a tad inconsistent. You are lashing out at us for voicing our thoughts and opinions. Your frustrations should be directed towards your local and state governments.

I live in a wildfire area. I know what is possible and have taken the advice to prepare myself. Our vegetation and pastures are cut and mowed before May 15, I know what to do with the animals and where to take them. During fire season, I always have a tank full of gas in the cars. Our pastures are also available to others whose animals may be in harms way. Well, you get the picture. It took a close call to get to a decent state of preparedness. I guess I am perplexed by your state and citizens choice to wait until the last days to take action.

Also, perplexed by Florida’s lack of willingness to help other states.

You worry too much about what we think. Take care of yourself and prepare for the next one.

[Native]

38. Are you also one of those people who posted about how you're smarter than the average Floridian

because you're smart enough to just visit here if you want to enjoy our weather and beaches? There were quite a few of those posts by DUers congratulating themselves on their brilliance in this regard. Obviously doesn't occur to them that the people who serve them on vacation have to live here to do so.

[Doc Sportello]

132. You keep taking shots at posters on DU rather than officials who are to blame

And I thought you were out helping people.

But here you are directing anger at DU posters who supposedly are blaming the victims, but you have not proof of that. Why don't you direct your anger at those who are to blame?

[mcar]

45. How wonderful for you

and how kind you are to let the OP know what she should be doing and who she should be mad at, while at the same time asserting your right to voice your own thoughts and opinions.



I guess the OP isn't allowed to voice frustration with all the self-righteous people on social media congratulating themselves because they would have, of course, done the exact right thing to keep themselves safe. Or those telling us Floridians that we deserve what we get because of our elected officials.

While Native gets back to caring for her elderly relatives, I'm getting ready for my continuing efforts to get out the Democratic vote here in my red FL county.

[Treefrog]

143. Thank you for that.

[obamanut2012]

60. What in the world is wrong with you?!

Thanks for proving OP'S point.

Jfc

[Doc Sportello]

131. I'm not the one with issues

You made a post accusing posters on here of something really shitty - blaming the victims. You obviously can't back it up. You try to deflect by making yourself out to be a hero. Didn't ask you to appease me. Because you are going through something doesn't give you the right to make false accusations or deflect blame.

[Treefrog]

144. Yeah, you kind of are.

Attacking others only points up how you've been attacking others in your previous posts.

Shame. Mm mm mm.

[Mariana]

35. Lee County had public shelters available

for people in low-lying areas and flimsy homes. I don't know what transportation options were available for those who had no way to get themselves to a nearby shelter.

When I was in a major hurricane (many years ago) the police and sheriff's deputies provided rides to the local shelters for people in evacuation zones who didn't have cars.

[Native]

40. Yup, they had shelters, they just didn't bother getting their mandatory evacuation alert out in time

like the other counties did.

Facing a Dire Storm Forecast in Florida, Officials Delayed Evacuation

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/30/us/hurricane-ian-lee-county-fort-myers-delay.html

No paywall
https://archive.ph/Vsfnf

[Mariana]

48. Yes, they are definitely responsible for that, and should lose their jobs.

You'd expect people who know they're in an area vulnerable to storm surge, when a large storm surge is forecast, not to wait around to be told they have to leave, but I understand a lot of people do exactly that. The officials know that too.

[obamanut2012]

61. Most shelters also do not allow pets

Folks, especially the elderly, will not abandon their pets. I wouldn't.

[catbyte]

67. That seems to be changing, actually. I watched over 10 hours of Hurricane Ian coverage, and

every shelter that was listed was pet-friendly. I think officials are starting to realize that most people will refuse to abandon their pets thus risking their lives. I know I'd never be able to leave mine, so I'm glad that attitudes are changing.

[txwhitedove]

99. Yes, the shelter change came after Katrina when so many stayed home for pets. We

stayed home due to pets, small kids, no money..., after trying to evacuate for just prior bad storm and being stuck in traffic.

[hamsterjill]

12. As a Texan, it saddens me when one part of the country

Gets heaped on because the redness of the area.

We are the UNITED States of America for a REASON, and I don’t give a damn about DeSantis or Abbott or any of the other assholes.

I am an American, and I care about my fellow Americans who are struggling to make a difference in this world, who are shattered by these disasters, and who must survive and grow strong again so that they might be able and willing to help ME when the disaster comes MY way.

[MuseRider]

13. Of course you do not deserve it.

Nobody, even the bad guys do not (I will make exception for those who deny climate change, they could have helped this) deserve this.

I lived through the supposedly first F5 tornado and my city was torn up from end to end but it was NEVER like what you are going through and we suffered for years with clean up and rebuilding. I cannot imagine anything like what you are dealing with.

We are not all stupid enough to think anyone deserves this. I am so sorry, what you have to look forward to is not fun or enjoyment but work and worry. I am so sorry.

[Srkdqltr]

14. Anyone who lives on the water should know the dangers.

For some nothing bad ever happens, others who live there may not be so lucky. They choose to take the good or bad. Either way you take your chances. I'm sorry it happened to them and sorry we all have to pay for the aftermath.

[mcar]

20. Anyone who lives in the Midwest should know the dangers

Of tornados. For some nothing bad ever happens, others who live there may not be so lucky. They choose to take the good or bad. Either way you take your chances. I'm sorry it happened to them and sorry we all have to pay for the aftermath.

Ft. Myers is about 8 miles inland. Towns further inland than that got nailed too. Oh, yeah, and Orlando, smack dab in the center of the state.

[Srkdqltr]

25. That's true life is a crapshoot wherever you live. Fire, wind,water.

I live across the street from a river and a mile or so from a lake.
If the upstream dams go for some reason, that has happened elsewhere, our house might go. I hope that if that happens we will get the aid we would need. I know it could happen.

[mcar]

15. What a nightmare!

I heard this morning that I75 was closed down there. Amazing that they didn't offer alternate routes.

[Hortensis]

24. They're there. Do you mean the media didn't offer alternates?

I didn't see where I-75 was closed, but although most of Florida is nice and flat, the many wetlands areas can make here-to-there a long journey by car. If 200,000 others are funneling into the same alternates,...what a mess is easy to imagine.

[Native]

33. No, 75 was open on our drive down there. A creek rose up over a portion later in the day.

They were driving back and encountered the new block where Big Slough hits 75. They had just closed it off. They could have had police or emergency services or someone directing people, but they didn't. And it actually took 12 hours to get to our house. I was calculating the difference based on the original, expected arrival time as opposed to when they actually departed.

[Hortensis]

72. 12 hours! My bad, I forgot how much of that area is wetlands.

I'm also imagining the subdivisions that have no back exit for people driving through them to find. Easy to imagine public services were overwhelmed, but!

And GPS has its limitations. I never got in as much trouble as in Florida, when I got lost and thought I might have to spend the night in my car. I saw a giant subdivision on GPS and tried to cross it, casually thinking there were houses under the trees and not leaving a trail of crumbs behind to find my way back.
It was actually a giant, town-size maze of cleared sand roads (whose image disappeared under trees) through totally flat, featureless woods, a collection of empty subdivisions of twisting roads that never lead out. Guessing adjacent wetlands were why.

[orleans]

112. how long *should* it have taken you to get back to your house or how long

did it take for you to pick up your relatives?
i am not familiar with the area. (just trying to get a general idea or comparison)

12 hours driving is bad enuf on its own, but when you're trying to evacuate i imagine it's absolutely horrible!

i'm glad you were able to help them and glad you made it back to safety

[Srkdqltr]

26. Are there alternative routes? Only one I know is 19 and that is closer to the water.

Just asking.

[mcar]

27. 41, but that was at least partially underwater

from what I saw. And that's not counting how many roadways have trees and power lines across them.

[Demsrule86]

28. I don't think that...we have horrible tornados and at times floods in Ohio...

We once had a Tsunami on Lake Erie.

[mcar]

31. I75 last night

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=cLh0GhYCFd8kS79Hi-k2zg

STANDSTILL TRAFFIC on I-75 near North Port, FL because the Myakka River has risen to dangerous levels. There is a full closure.

[TheBlackAdder]

32. Folks in CA, CT, NJ & NY don't mind bailing out Florida, as we do it each and every year.

.

It's the fucking lack of gratitude, and double standards, that pisses us off.


Sandy really set the tone. But still, the Dems in our states want to help out those in need. Now, you ask Republicans in NJ & NY about helping, and they're more of the "fuck them" people. The real issue are Republicans in Blue states, because the key attribute is the self-affecting and sociopathic traits of Republicans and Libertarians. Libertarians are the worst self-serving fucks imaginable.

Then you have states like Kentucky, one of the top socialism sucking moocher states, and who are their senators? Fucking assholes that want to keep Kentucky from advancing and becoming more self-reliant because their grifting Senate jobs are based on bringing home the bacon. Those two fuckers want to keep their state depressed for their own selfish needs. And that goes with a lot of the other Republican states. Most of them can not pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. If Republicanism were so great, who do most of them have to be moochers? And the way politics is constructed, the Blue States will always have this burden. It's one that stops our own roads and progress to further develop.

One of the problems with this construct is that many in NJ & NY move to those Red States when they retire, taking their pensions with them, especially state workers. So this promotes further depletion of financial resources in our states. There are a fuck-ton of NJ & NY residents who have transplanted to Florida. There's a joke about the migratory pattern from NY to NJ to FL.

I have extended family down in Florida, and I used to visit there several times a year, until recently.

The Blue States will always have the Red States back, even if they are ungrateful tweenagers.

.

[jimfields33]

36. I remind everybody the results of the governor election in 2018.

49.6 to 49.2. Why everybody thinks Florida is this deep red state is beyond me. It is a split as it can be. So for every Republican, you have a Democratic supporter.

[Act_of_Reparation]

54. Florida hasn't elected a Democratic governor since 1998.

Democrats haven't controlled the state legislature since 1992. While Florida can, and does, swing in national elections, the GOP has dominated state politics since the turn of the century.

This doesn't justify some of the angry rhetoric we've been seeing around here, but Florida's reputation as a red state isn't exactly undeserved.

[obamanut2012]

65. Almost all those people moving here are GOP

From all those nice blue states like NJ, CT, NY, CA, MI. They looooove DeSantis and moved here because of him. From blue states.

Oh ggosh! Not everyone from blue states are blue???????? But everyone from red states are red????? That's illogical!!!@@

[Act_of_Reparation]

133. I said nothing of the sort.

If somebody here is claiming everyone in a blue state is Democrat, and everyone in a red state is Republican, perhaps you should direct that criticism towards them.

[LeftInTX]

147. Charlies Crist was governor: January 2, 2007 - January 4, 2011

[Act_of_Reparation]

148. As a Republican.

[LeftInTX]

149. Oops..my bad..Thought he was a Democrat

[Act_of_Reparation]

150. No worries.

He switched in 2012.

[Native]

58. It boggles my mind too.

[obamanut2012]

62. Yup, we are gerrymandered to hell on every level here

[Native]

47. I don't know a single Floridian who resents their tax dollars going to help those

impacted by fires & drought in California & Washington & Oregon, tornado prone states, populations dealing with contaminated water, and the list goes on. But it never occurred to me to expect gratitude. We are, for better or worse, the United States. And I love humanity, even the ugly bits.

[TheBlackAdder]

73. When a state is chronically running a deficit where it needs yearly bailouts, whose tax dollars?

.

It's almost like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

The Blue States are always treated like shit by the Red States, all of them, even though we keep them solvent.

.

[Native]

89. We currently have a 21.8 billion dollar budget surplus. What am i missing?

[TheBlackAdder]

107. Then why do the Feds have to bail them out by sending them money every year?

.

That's why you have a surplus and the Blue States often don't.

And a surplus is over taxation.

.

[TeamProg]

124. +1

[mcar]

49. Many FL congressfolks voted Aye on Sandy relief

and yes, fck DeathSantis and Lil Marco for voting against it. They should be hammered with questions about those votes and I'm happy to see that MSM is on it.

The real issue are Republicans in Blue states, because the key attribute is the self-affecting and sociopathic traits of Republicans and Libertarians. Libertarians are the worst self-serving fucks imaginable.

The real issue is Republicans and Libertarians, period, Red state or Blue state notwithstanding.

[JustAnotherGen]

140. All of this

The smirking from DeSantis in 2013 when people didn't have power in NJ in late October / early November. We are one of the wealthiest states and near the top of the tax payments to Fed - with very little back. It was our money, not his. Not Florida's.

That Gubernatorial election was very tight. My heart goes out to those that tried to save themselves - but when I watched a shrimper in Florida with a Confederate flag on his baseball cap on MSNBC this morning lament everything he lost when he had very little to begin with -

I know he resents me, doesn't think I'm a real American, and thinks I'm on the dole . . . because of the color of my skin. I don't want him to be grateful -

I want him to admit that I'm paying his fair share.

[Tree-Hugger]

39. It's one thing to criticise government

There are a lot of bad decisions at the government level in Florida. That should be criticized. It's also normal to get frustrated when people vote against their own self interests. When it comes to a guge disaster, mocking the folks going through it doesn't help anyone and it doesn't change policy. Yet, people do it constantly. There was a particularly mean-spirited post on DU on Thursday, while Ian was still in the state of Florida. Many of us did call it out, but it shouldn't have been posted in the first place. As it was, they deleted it....but not before we were told we don't "get" sarcasm, can't discern it, and most be having "senior moments." I get the sarcasm, but that doesn't make you less cruel. Some people can only feel Superior by being cruel about others and then they can't handle the pushback so they cry sarcasm. Even if we don't agree with how people vote, we can still have compassion for human beings who are losing their lives and their homes and going through a hell that nobody really deserves. Anyway, I hope that your family is doing well and that you are all safe.

[dawn5651]

41. i am so thankful that you were able to get your relatives out

we are all to blame for the crazy weather that we have been getting we need to stop treating this planet as if it is disposible. i live in the part of canada that was impacted by hurricane fiona...where i live in particular we got high wind..that was it...devastation on scale i had not seen here and frankly florida is a helluva lot worse..hurricane ian tried to devastate a major portion of a state.

was listening to msnbc yesterday and jose diaz balart was translating for a woman as she was speaking...he asked after she was done speaking who was going to help her get federal funds because she is really going to need funds...and how many people are just going to fade in to the background because they are not going to be able to apply for funds because they are not american citizens and in some cases not even supposed to be in the country...they have also lost everything....i never slam anyone for where they live because karma is a bitch and it will bite you on the butt if you get to complacent..

[Native]

52. Not to mention the unpredictability of it all. You got a taste of it with Fiona.

There were tons of people who evacuated from Tampa (where it was originally expected to hit hardest) to the Naples area, only to wind up in the thick of it.

I can't remember the name of the hurricane, but years back we had one that basically covered the entire State and sat there for like 4 days. There were postcards that came out that showed a hurricane covering the whole state with the standard caption "Welcome to Florida!"

During another hurricane we evacuated to Georgia. Turns out our home here never lost power or sustained any damage, but the pace we went to in Georgia, as well as our golf course there, lost power because of the same storm.

Life really is a crapshoot.

[mcar]

75. My cousins evacuated from St. Pete and went inland

to an area that ended up getting flooded. Their homes were fine.

We do the best we can given our circumstances and the information we have.

[Native]

80. I'm hearing so many stories like this.

[mcar]

82. And remember, just 4-5 days earlier,

Ian was heading straight for us. Then it veered west, then east, then southeast.

[malaise]

42. I have family in Florida and I live on an island in the Caribbean

I do not think we should be building beach front homes or hotels and destroying our marshes for housing or tourism development is madness.

Additionally these flat tiny islands off our mainland spaces are too dangerous for permanent living.

[fightforfreedom]

98. Thank you. I agree.

[yardwork]

121. I agree and the same is true of my state's coast.

We should not be building houses on the beach or in wetlands. Period.

[TeamProg]

125. +1

[HAB911]

43. my ONLY complaint is

having to subsidize, through homeowner's insurance,those rebuilding in impossible locations, over and over and over again

that is all

[mcar]

77. I have issues with that too

Like why is building going on in drought areas? We flew into Denver last year and I couldn't believe all the subdivisions that are springing up around the airport.

[HAB911]

129. It's Freedumb in action!

[iemanja]

44. Some people lack compassion

You have to in order to believe that people in the way of a natural disaster deserve what they get.

I'm very sorry you and your family went through such an ordeal.

[twodogsbarking]

46. I wish all Floridians well. Humans can be weird.

[obamanut2012]

51. Thank you

I'm about 15ish miles from Palm Beach, so whenever DUers are like lolz hope MaL gets hit! Lololololk


i think of mysrlf, and all the liberals I know withon a 20- mile radius of there, and I get pissed.

I hope everything works out for your family. We had several tornadoes touch down nearby, one less than a half mile away, so scary, but we are so blessed.

[Traildogbob]

53. We need to look inside ourselves

My Hate for DeSatan, Gaetz. Rubio, Scott and other Florida politicians boils. It’s easy to let that spill over to Florida as a whole. Been guilty myself. But I live in District 11 in North Carolina. So people nationwide should be hating me Because this district gave the world Meadows for fucks sake, replaced him with Cawthorn, and the next batter up is just as sick. And my state is giving the SC the coming case of legislatures being able to overturn elections with no court authority to intervene. But these people many times are not elected without Tons of corruption. We also have many thousands of “Shoot to Kill trumpets” here, just like Florida.
But in this time of devastation, we gotta remember, there are many many good people in Florida that are just like us that need help. I sure hope if our mountains slide down on us from climate change flooding, that people do not say fuck you North Carolina for Meadows and Cawthorn.
Not how liberals are wired, why I am one.
Wish the very best to the good Floridians that need massive help. Not religious, but I believe their Jesus would not turn his back of people in need because an appointed leader is an asshole. Just saying.

[moose65]

57. I am sorry to hear that

And bless you for helping your relatives.

As many have said - Florida is a state full of Democrats. It is not some deep red state like Wyoming or Idaho. Every part of the US is subject to some type of extreme weather, whether it is flooding, tornadoes, wildfires, blizzards, etc.

I live in the mountains of NC, and there are quite a few Florida license plates around here in the summer. People around here rail against Floridians and tell them to "go back," and I hate that too - I hate painting everyone with such a broad brush. I guess it's human nature.

[DownriverDem]

63. So now will the state

require those homes to be rebuilt up to hurricane code? Personally I'd take the money and leave the state.

[Native]

64. Yes. That's standard.

[snowybirdie]

66. Gee

Who'd want to live in California? Earthquakes
Who'd want to live in the west? Drought
Who'd want to live in the midwest or the South? Tornados
Whose want to live in New England? Terrible winters

Where you gonna go? Anywhere we GD well p!ease!

[iluvtennis]

69. I sure hope no DUers believe Florida residents deserved the destruction of Ian - come on folks, DU

is better than that.

@Native - so hapy to read you got your family and dogs out. Stay strong.

[Kaleva]

74. People don't deserve it but people have been warned about this for over 20 years

[mcar]

78. People are still moving west

despite drought and wildfires.

People still live in the midwest, despite annual tornados.

People still live in the north, despite worsening snowstorms.

[Kaleva]

90. Actually, the winters are predicted to become more mild

As average global temperatures rise, the summers here will become hotter but the growing season will become longer and the winters more mild

[mcar]

91. And homes are still being built

in drought and wildfire areas.

[Kaleva]

92. There's quite a few climate change deniers in this country and world

[mcar]

146. For sure. Nt

[Warpy]

76. I don't blame people who live in harm's way

I blame the fucking developers who saw only profit when they crammed as many houses as possible on top of drained swamps and wrecked ecosystems and without adequate escape routes. I blame developers who are still building hguge suburban tract housing developments up in Sinkhole Alley, not mentioning the risk to buyers. I blame the businessmen who put out the cheery "Y'all come on down where it's WARM" brochures that neglected to mention any of the risks, especially within a mile of the coast where storm surges are the most dangerous and most especially on barrier islands that should never have been developed all to hell with only one causeway for thousands of people to use to evacuate to the mainland.

I don't blame the people who bought into the idea of perpetual summer, no more snow. I've been through winters in NY, New England and the upper midwest and I eventually wanted to escape, also. However, developers have pretty much ruined that state for the foreseeable future. It was never meant to be paved over with asphalt streets and parking lots and miles and miles of houses in the suburban sprawl pattern. Florida has a habit of fighting back and a lot of those people will get hurt.

They don't deserve it. The real fault lies with the developers and their marketers.

[mcar]

79. This +1000!

Who allows developers to build so many mobile and manufactured home sites in flood plains?

[Native]

85. & the mangroves that were destroyed! I saw one poster talking about how the Carolinas are different

(not making the same mistake as Floridians) because they're smart enough to ony build vacation homes on the water and have second homes away from the coastline. I was gobsmacked.

[Warpy]

114. That might have been true in some areas 50 years ago

but it sure hasn't been true since then. And even then, I knew year rounders on the Outer Banks, I went to school with some of their kids.

[yardwork]

122. I'm in NC and it's not my observation that we're doing any better.

Too many houses being built on beaches, when all the models show massive water level rise along the coast.

[ShazzieB]

101. I agree with this 1000%.

That does NOT mean I don't have great sympathy for those who are suffering in Ian's wake. It's possible to feel terrible for those people while also side eyeing the resposible parties.

[yardwork]

123. We side eye and criticize responsible parties BECAUSE of the suffering.

[CaptainTruth]

84. As a Floridian, let me say...

...I've lived in the Midwest, California, & now Florida, & every place has its hazards. You need to be smart & prepare appropriately, that's just common sense. It doesn't require pontificating, ranting, or passing judgement on the decisions & lives of others. (Please, leave the judgement & disapproval of others to the right-wingers, that's their specialty.)

In the Midwest I had friends who were seriously injured in car crashes on icy roads, & 1 person I know was killed due to icy winter roads. Over the years tornados caused serious damage in areas around me.

In California I rode out earthquakes every year, mostly small, but I was in San Francisco during the Loma Prieta quake & that was damn scary. I knew a person who was crushed to death as they where getting into their car when a brick wall collapsed on them.

In Florida, with hurricanes, at least I have several days warning & an idea about how bad it could be. I will take that any day over earthquakes that strike with no warning, or tornados that arise within minutes. Needless to say, I don't know anyone in Florida who's been injured or killed while driving on icy Florida roads. And yes, if you choose to live in Florida you need to be prepared, & there are a plethora of resources to help you do that. I have also found the folks in my area to be happy to lend a hand & help out their neighbors, which was not always the case in other places I've lived.

[Upthevibe]

88. Native.............

Last edited Sat Oct 1, 2022, 01:10 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm not on DU a lot during the week except casually because of my work schedule.

Are there a lot of DU'ers that are posting that Florida deserves this? That's very disturbing if that's the case.

Could you post some links in which you're referring? I think these people need to be called out!

Almost all areas of the country are subject to natural disasters. I'm in California and have personally been effected by earthquakes and have friends who've been effected by the fires.

I can personally say that DeSantis voting against aid to Hurricane Sandy victims and now asking for aid is the epitome of hypocrisy. Having said that, I realize, of course, DU'ers are NOT supporters of DeSantis.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/sep/30/yuh-line-niou/did-rubio-and-desantis-vote-against-hurricane-sand/

I'm sorry that you're not feeling supported. I wish the very best for you, your loved ones, and other Floridians.

[Native]

93. Some of them have been called out, and many of the posts you see here are by those who

who previously posted on those threads kindly trying to enlighten and reason with those who trash us. Some OPs were also self deleted. Since they just kept coming, I had to say something. I mean how many times do you have to say, no matter how hard you try, you just have no compassion for those fucking idiots who didn't evacuate in time. What is the purpose of an OP or post like that? What are they hoping to accomplish?

On edit, got to add that my one constant thought through all of this has been if people on DU are this insensitive, then we are all going to be in for some major, eye-opening, crazy ass shit going down with the coming water wars.

[Wibly]

94. Where are these comments?

I haven't noticed any DUers saying any such thing. Do you have links to where these comments are posted?
I really don't think most folks think that way at all. From what I've read, people are not impressed with DeSantis and his hypocrisy, but I have not read anything that suggests DUers are suggesting Floridians deserve natural disasters or that claim they are getting what they deserve.
Anyone who makes such a comment is a blithering idiot who needs to see a head shrink. I don't think such comment would be in any manner indicative of the way most folks here feel or think.

[Native]

96. I didn't bookmark them, many are comments sprinkled into general posts about Ian.

And there were OPs as well.

[barbtries]

95. i feel for the people of FL

but your post screams about the lack of decent governance there. I'm really sorry that anyone had to suffer or continues to, and that you and your family members had to endure that ride from hell.

I mean there's an argument to be made that we should all choose states run by Democrats. Florida fails in that regard and as you know, your governor is probably the worst of them all. As far as the global warming aspect, it's very clear. But i do understand that with the weather and the fishing and the everglades and all, especially the weather, it's an enticing place to live. we all take the bitter with the sweet.

i can't blame anyone for a hurricane. that's mother nature and at the end of the day even the end of the world as we know it, she will have the last word.

[Native]

103. I'm a native Floridian. My mother dated Florida Governor Graham (D) in high school

We're about half and half here. I've lived through many years here when Dems were in charge. DeathSantis only won by 40,000 votes. If all the Democrats fled purple and red states, how would we effect change?

[barbtries]

106. i have an answer

but not qualified to comment on that. Yes, we need more Democrats EVERYWHERE! When I get mad at "the people" it's the ones who continually vote against their own best interests, the Q, the trumpies, you know. It's not Floridians per se. It's just that republicans are the ones who make it so none of us can progress. they're so bad, so bad, that I'm long past the point of being able to understand how any common American can still BE one.

I live in NC and we are so gerrymandered that even when Democrats win, they lose. I'm still here, got no stones to throw. Ian struck us yesterday and it's my son's wedding today. Mother nature rides again; the rain has stopped. But we had a gnarly drive home from the rehearsal dinner last night ee yi yi

[Snackshack]

97. I don't think anyone deserves that.

Having said that. After the 3rd time a hurricane comes thru scouring the land and wiping away civilization it was those people choice to rebuild in a known path of destruction. Also if this was like a once in 100yr event like Earthquake or something it would be understandable to rebuild but…every year this happens we call it hurricane season for a reason.

[TeamProg]

126. +1

[TeamProg]

104. I (we) live in Wild Fire Country."Deserve" it? I haven't read that here. 'Should have expected it'?

I'm sickened by all of the losses of life or property in Florida. And Cuba and Puerto Rico.
I am dumbstruck for answers as to what the uninsured should do.

My wife and I live in Wild Fire Country. We expect to have wild fires near our house. We've been evacuated twice in in the last four years. Ferguson Fire (Yosemite) and Oak Fire (Mariposa).

Our properties could burn. We would not stick around to watch. I'd have to say goodbye to much of my personal history, my art, my collected art, vintage instruments and antiques. It would be devastating.

We have good insurance.

If we burn did we "Deserve it"? No.

"Should we have expected it"? Well, duh, get real! We are, we do.

Again, Floridians "Deserve" it? I haven't read that here. 'Should have expected it'? Yeah, kinda-sorta?

[Native]

105. When people say they have no compassion for and don't feel sorry for Floridians impacted because

they should have seen it coming, what does that mean to you?

[TeamProg]

110. You said "Deserve it", which is cruel. I haven't read that here.

Be honest. Has anyone here said ‘Floridians deserve it’?

Where? Give us a link. I friggin’ HATE dishonesty. It’s so GQP-like.
Give us a link to where a DU’er said “Floridians deserve it”.
You can’t, can you.


“Should have expected it”? Of course, just like us in Wild Fire country.

I hope to good reason, most people had insurance.

[fightforfreedom]

120. I regret deleting a post from earlier today. I should have fought back against the lies, attacks.

One member actually slammed me in a post and then e-mailed me to rub it in. I did not respond. My post was about what you have clearly explained to people.

[Butterflylady]

145. I remember that post.

Later on went back looking for it and couldn't find the post as I was going to agree with you.

[fightforfreedom]

109. Thank you for your post.

That sums it up.

[yardwork]

113. How terrifying. Nobody deserves to suffer from natural disasters.

We are all vulnerable in one way or another. And sometimes preparation isn't enough. That's why I'm a Democrat. We have to help one another.

[treestar]

116. Prove any DUer said that

Many other states can get hurricanes, too, so it would be stupid.

[TeamProg]

128. +1

[TheBeam19]

119. Noble attempt but the willful ignorance on here

is astounding.

Good post.

[BlackSkimmer]

127. K and r...

Some of the posts I'm reading here are very revealing.

[Native]

134. Yup, and I'm still asked to "prove it." Gah.

[BlackSkimmer]

130. Kick

[Deep State Witch]

135. I wish my MIL would have evacuated

My MIL is in Venice, in Sarasota County. Fortunately, she's all right. But I really wish that she had gone to a shelter.

[Happy Hoosier]

139. I don't wish disaster on Floridians...

… but the handwriting is on the wall at this point. Such disasters will become more and more frequent. If you CAN leave (or at least get inland) it’s probably a good idea.

[maxsolomon]

141. "Deserve's got nothin' to do with it" -Tom Reagan, Miller's Crossing

I'm sorry this happened to you and yours.

[Iggo]

153. This thread's way too long, so I'll just leave this right here...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217215930

[Native]

154. Glad to see more people are commenting on shit posts like this.

[Niagara]

155. That OP is way out of line.