Town employee quietly lowered fluoride in water for years

[dalton99a]

https://apnews.com/article/health-vermont-fluoridation-climate-and-environment-375fe7224a329bafb7a6dfa7480b5750

Town employee quietly lowered fluoride in water for years
By LISA RATHKE

RICHMOND, Vt. (AP) — Residents of a small community in Vermont were blindsided last month by news that one official in their water department quietly lowered fluoride levels nearly four years ago, giving rise to worries about their children’s dental health and transparent government — and highlighting the enduring misinformation around water fluoridation.

Katie Mather, who lives in Richmond, a town of about 4,100 in northwestern Vermont, said at a water commission meeting this week that her dentist recently found her two kids’ first cavities. She acknowledged they eat a lot of sugar, but noted that her dentist recommended against supplemental fluoride because the town’s water should be doing the trick.

Her dentist “was operating and making professional recommendations based on state standards we all assumed were being met, which they were not,” Mather said. “It’s the fact that we didn’t have the opportunity to give our informed consent that gets to me.”

The addition of fluoride to public drinking water systems has been routine in communities across the United States since the 1940s and 1950s but still doesn’t sit well with some people, and many countries don’t fluoridate water for various reasons, including feasibility.

Kendall Chamberlin, Richmond’s water and wastewater superintendent, told the Water and Sewer Commission in September that he reduced the fluoride level because of his concerns about changes to its sourcing and the recommended levels.

He said he worries about quality control in the fluoride used in U.S. drinking systems because it comes from China — an assertion that echoes unfounded reports about Chinese fluoride that have circulated online in recent years.


Kendall Chamberlin

[Farmer-Rick]

1. Probably a Federalist Society supporter

The organization has always objected to floride. Not sure why except that it does promote the general welfare which is something Federalist Society members are against.

[CurtEastPoint]

2. Looks like Santa has been reading too much 'woo' propaganda.

[pandr32]

3. Get a fluoride treatment at the dentist

Use fluoride toothpaste. Brush teeth after eating.
Simple precautions and good habits.

Fluoride in water can be problematic.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine/magazine_article/fluoridated-drinking-water/

[kcr]

10. Note

that in the letters from other scientists responding, only one letter agreed with the article. All the rest disagreed because it is woo nonsense.

[PCIntern]

13. Utter BS

Last edited Sun Oct 9, 2022, 04:06 PM - Edit history (1)

I am a dentist who works in both Philadelphia and Delaware County Pennsylvania. The dental health of Philadelphia children whose water is fluoridated is excellent even if they only sporadically brush their teeth. The dental health of children in Delaware county whose water is NOT fluoridated is frightening bordering on dento-apocalyptic. The number of children I have seen with rampant caries down there is massive child abuse as far as I’m concerned.

I have never in all the years I’ve been in Philadelphia seen a child or a teenager, not once, who had that kind of decay leading to infection and tooth loss.

I’m sick of this shit.

[pandr32]

24. My children never had cavities.

I, however, have serious enamel fluorosis. I have had to have most of my teeth crowned or veneered. I was subject to water fluoridation and my children were not.

[PCIntern]

25. You had more than

1 part per million. This happens in certain areas with high endemic fluoride in the water or if a parent over-administered fluoride drops.

If that is not the case, then you have a different issue which is not fluorosis.

[pandr32]

33. Definitely fluorosis.

I never had fluoride drops from a parent.

My wish is that proper dental care be available to all (as well as health care) and that healthy food be prioritized in all neighborhoods over unhealthy. Underprivileged neighborhoods tend to eat the most refined, unhealthy foods. More than teeth are at stake.

Children do better with a healthy diet along with good health and dental care. Also vaccines.

[malaise]

29. QED

[yardwork]

16. Do some research on the impact of tooth decay on children's lives.

It's heartbreaking.

[Mad_Machine76]

42. The point here

is the lack of transparency/consent. If you oppose something, you present your arguments and rally to get the outcome that you want. But it should not be left to one person (or a small group of people) to unilaterally determine policy JMHO.

[QED]

4. In 2012 water works employees in Gilbert AZ just stopped adding fluoride to the water.

GILBERT DISCOVERS FLUORIDE WITHHELD FROM WATER, PUTS 2 OFFICIALS ON LEAVE
Source: The Republic | August 23rd, 2012 | By Parker Leavitt

Gilbert has put two top administrators on leave and launched an internal investigation after officials discovered fluoride has been withheld from part of the town’s water supply for at least 13 months.

Gilbert voters approved fluoridation 12 years ago after a heated debate on the controversial issue, and the task of adding the cavity-fighting chemical fell to Public Works Director Lonnie Frost, whose wife Shelley had led the opposition against fluoride.

Frost, along with Water Manager Chris Ochs, are now on paid leave while the town investigates how and why fluoride was not being added at Gilbert’s North Water Treatment Plant. Town Manager Patrick Banger could not immediately say whether it was done intentionally or by mistake.



Reports from 2009 and 2010 indicate the amount of fluoride in Gilbert’s water varied between 0.42 and 1.1 parts per million, well below the maximum allowable level of 4 parts per million. The 2011 report, however, indicates fluoride levels had dropped, ranging from “not detected” to 0.92 parts per million.

https://fluoridealert.org/news/gilbert-discovers-fluoride-withheld-from-water-puts-2-officials-on-leave/

[Scrivener7]

5. Asshole.

[MissB]

6. It's a thing

It seems to be a thing every few years in our state. The state has water systems do sit samples each quarter; the system measures the amount of fluoride in one sample and the state lab measures the amount in the other sample and someone somewhere compares the two values and lets the system know if their measurement is off.

The CDC did lower the recommended level a few years ago, which seemed to spur some cities to re-evaluate whether they wanted fluoride.

Also, it’s easy to determine where the fluoride comes from- the manufacturer has to disclose that info so you know if the chemical you’re buying comes from a domestic source or not.

[thucythucy]

7. Flouride in water is a long time right wing obsession.

[edbermac]

9. My first thought.

One of the greatest movies ever made.

[delisen]

11. Which does not prove anything.

I thought Dr. Strangelove was a great movie but I consider it entertainment not science.

[yardwork]

15. Hysteria about fluoride was promoted by the John Birch Society in the 1950s.

That's why it was satirized in a movie in the early 1960s. Anti-fluoride hysteria was part of the anti-communist, white supremacist movement.

[delisen]

20. Thanks for your response.Yes I am very familiar with the history

Yet I think that there are many reasons to re-evaluate the use of fluoride in drinking water today. One reason is that since the 1950s the number of products containing fluoride and number of topical applications of fluoride being administered by dentists has increased phenomenally. It is I believe valid to ask whether people are getting too much fluoride. I think the fairly recent decision to reduce the recommended amount of fluoride to be added to tap water may have been influenced by the widespread problem of fluorosis, the mottling of teeth in children and teenager.
Your statement succinctly summarizes that history.

We have not had much research on fluoride and the human body, other than teeth. We don’t have much research on long term effects such as on bone health.

Aside from the issue of fluoride and reducing caries in children, there are ethical concerns about administering a medicine not beneficial to everyone through public water systems. The ethical issue has been raised more in Europe than in the US. In some counties they do not allow fluoride in tap water but fluoridated products are available.

Another ethical concern is the pressure to use water fluoridation as a substitute for dental care, particularly for poor children. In my city dental practices are located in more affluent areas and many poorer children rarely see a dentist. Yet despite fluoridation these kids have cavities.

These are just some of the reasons I have been investigating the water fluoridation issue. I am looking for research on bone health related to fluoridation, on dental health of poor children and fluoridation, and the issue of medical ethics.

[Demsrule86]

36. I do not. I lived in an area where there was no fluoride. I had 7 or 8 cavity every time I saw

the dentist...yearly visits. After moving to an area where Fluoride was in use, I had no cavities period. I used fluoride toothpaste nowadays as well. I have excellent teeth...and as for poor kids, with or without fluoride, the dental care will be abysmal so let's at least keep their teeth cavity-free. Dental in this country is terrible for everyone really. This fear of reasonable amounts of fluoride in water to protect teeth is similar to the Anti-vax people. The guy in the story is likely a Rightie...and how dare he not inform the public...get rid of him. As for folks here, don't torture your kids with unnecessary cavities due to mediocre slanted research about fluoride.

[former9thward]

22. Portland, Oregon is one of the most liberal cities in the U.S.

The people have rejected added fluoride many times over the years.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-oregon-water-fluoridation-history-explained/

[yardwork]

23. And many of them reject vaccines, too. Because they're entitled twits.

[Demsrule86]

37. Just because you are liberal doesn't mean you are wrong about somethings.

Portland's kids, especially those in low-income families, will continue to pay the price for Oregon's backward policy: There's overwhelming evidence that children who grow up in communities without fluoridated water suffer much more, and much worse, dental decay.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention calls the steep reduction in dental cavities due to adding fluoride to public water supplies as one of the top 10 public health achievements of the 20th century. It's an achievement not shared in Portland, or in most Oregon communities. Corvallis, Coos Bay, Beaverton and a few dozen other Oregon towns have fluoridated water. But everywhere else, community leaders have bowed to the scare tactics and unsubstantiated claims of people who oppose fluoridation.

https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/2009/04/oregon_the_goto_place_for_toot.html

[former9thward]

40. I mentioned Portland because some think the fluoridation issue is a right wing conspiracy.

I grew up in Portland and I have lived a number of different places. Some conservative, some liberal, some in the middle. Whether there is fluoride in the water has nothing to do with politics.

[Demsrule86]

41. I think Portland aside it is more on the right...the studies for example.

It is mostly bullshit. You know bad teeth for poor kids is what Portland got with this policy.

[Celerity]

18. 97/98 per cent of continental Europe doesn't do artificial water fluoridation, many nations banned

it long ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_by_country

Currently about 372 million people (around 5.7% of the world population) receive artificially-fluoridated water in about 24 countries, including Australia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Republic of Ireland, Malaysia, the U.S., and Vietnam.

57.4 million people receive naturally occurring fluoridated water at or above optimal levels in countries such as Sweden, China, Sri Lanka, Finland, Zimbabwe and Gabon. Community water fluoridation is rare in Continental Europe, with 97–98% choosing not to fluoridate drinking water.

It (adding it artificially) has been banned here in Sweden since 1971, after being legal for a brief time (and then only 4 cities chose to do so).

[LetMyPeopleVote]

39. I was thinking about this when I read OP

[wackadoo wabbit]

8. Those of you who think that fluoride is a good thing might want to familiarize yourselves with . . .

Last edited Sun Oct 9, 2022, 11:26 PM - Edit history (2)

the latest research.

Here're a couple of references:

Potential Role of Fluoride in the Etiopathogenesis of Alzheimer's Disease

Here's the abstract:

The etiopathogenesis of Alzheimer's disease has not been fully explained. Now, the disease is widely attributed both to genetic and environmental factors. It is believed that only a small percentage of new AD cases result solely from genetic mutations, with most cases attributed to environmental factors or to the interaction of environmental factors with preexistent genetic determinants. Fluoride is widespread in the environment and it easily crosses the blood⁻brain barrier. In the brain fluoride affects cellular energy metabolism, synthesis of inflammatory factors, neurotransmitter metabolism, microglial activation, and the expression of proteins involved in neuronal maturation. Finally, and of specific importance to its role in Alzheimer's disease, studies report fluoride-induced apoptosis and inflammation within the central nervous system. This review attempts to elucidate the potential relationship between the effects of fluoride exposure and the pathogenesis of Alzheimer's disease. We describe the impact of fluoride-induced oxidative stress and inflammation in the pathogenesis of AD and demonstrate a role for apoptosis in disease progression, as well as a mechanism for its initiation by fluoride. The influence of fluoride on processes of AD initiation and progression is complex and warrants further investigation, especially considering growing environmental fluoride pollution.

Link to full paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6320968/


Fluoride exposure and children's intelligence: Gene-environment interaction based on SNP-set, gene and pathway analysis, using a case-control design based on a cross-sectional study

Abstract:

Background: Excessive fluoride exposure has been associated with intelligence loss, but little is known about gene-fluoride interactions on intelligence at SNP-set, gene and pathway level.

Objectives: Here we conducted a population-based study in Chinese school-aged children to estimate the associations of fluoride from internal and external exposures with intelligence as well as to explore the gene-fluoride interactions on intelligence at SNP-set, gene and neurodevelopmental pathway level.

Methods: A total of 952 resident children aged 7 to 13 were included in the current study. The fluoride contents in drinking water, urine, hair and nail were measured using the ion-selective electrode method. LASSO Binomial regression was conducted to screen the intelligence-related SNP-set. The gene-fluoride interactions at gene and pathway levels were detected by the Adaptive Rank Truncated Product method.

Results: The probability of high intelligence was inversely correlated with fluoride contents in water, urine, hair and nail (all P < 0.001). The SNP-set based on rs3788319, rs1879417, rs57377675, rs11556505 and rs7187776 was related to high intelligence (P = 0.001) alone and by interaction with water, urinary and hair fluoride (P = 0.030, 0.040, 0.010), separately. In gene level, CLU and TOMM40 interacted with hair fluoride (both P = 0.017) on intelligence. In pathway level, Alzheimer disease pathway, metabolic pathway, signal transduction pathway, sphingolipid signaling pathway and PI3K-AKT signaling pathway interacted with fluoride on intelligence in men.

Conclusions: Our study suggests that fluoride is inversely associated with intelligence. Moreover, the interactions of fluoride with mitochondrial function-related SNP-set, genes and pathways may also be involved in high intelligence loss.

Link to this abstract on PubMed: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34098334/

The full paper is behind a paywall, but it is available through SciHub. I'm not sure if posting links to SciHub is allowed, so I'm not doing it. However, if you'd like to read the full paper, please DM me for the SciHub link to the paper.

Personally, I'd rather my children have a couple of cavities than lower intelligence. But I guess that's just me. Your mileage, obviously, may vary.


ETA: I included a link to the second abstract on PubMed and explained that the full paper is behind a paywall but is available on SciHub.

Edit 2: typo

[delisen]

12. Thank you for bringing facts to the discussion. nt

[yardwork]

17. There are no facts in those excerpts. One of them doesn't even have a source.

[delisen]

26. Pomeranian Medical University re Fluoride & Alzheimer's

On what basis do you dismiss this research?

[yardwork]

28. Ok. I laughed out loud. Thanks for the laugh,

[delisen]

34. Don't understand your laughter.

Are you rejecting research because the medical school is in Poland? Do you think they are not competent researchers?
Do you think the NIH should not be posting their research online?

Much of the research being done on fluoride is done in Europe and other countries outside the US

If you can, please take a moment to explain your laughter.

[Demsrule86]

38. No, they should not be posting this reasearch IMHO.

First of all, it is a medical school that one can apply to online or have a change of career. It is not a research hospital from what I can tell.

[wackadoo wabbit]

45. The International Journal of Molecular Sciences is a respected, peer-reviewed journal

Your sarcasm is only showing your ignorance.

[wackadoo wabbit]

43. The paper itself is behind a paywall, but it is available on SciHub

That's why I said to DM me if you wanted to read the full paper.

I just edited my post to include the PubMed link to the abstract and to more fully explain why I didn't provide a link to the paper.

You were right to call me out on this. Science needs to be cited.

As for there being "no facts," I included the abstracts, not the full papers! Are you at all familiar with what an abstract is? There are plenty of facts in the papers, which you might want to avail yourself of. Let me know if you want the SciHub link for the second paper.

[yardwork]

14. This is absolute crap. Delete this.

[JanMichael]

19. Just like some pharmacy people - do your fucking job.

[Dirty Socialist]

21. Purity of Essence

Obviously this man is a psychotic

[Mr.Bill]

27. It occurs to me that since the 50s - 70s,

far fewer people are drinking tap water in America. We mostly drink our water from bottles. Wouldn't it be a good idea to put Fluoride in some brands of bottled water and let the people make their own decision? In my county of 60,000 people there are over 100 water providers, some serving as few as ten homes. None of them use Fluoride. I've lived here for over 30 years, and my teeth are deteriorating more quickly than they used to. Of course some of that is due to my age, but I have to wonder how my teeth would be if I had been drinking bottled water with Fluoride all those years.

[meadowlander]

30. We shouldn't be encouraging people to drink bottled water because of the plastic waste.

A centralised reticulated water supply is a more efficient way to distribute water that everyone going though 8 disposible plastic bottles a day. If you fluoridate bottled water too you're asking the average Joe to work out how to dose themselves with the combination of tap and bottled water which will end badly.

[Mr.Bill]

32. How could it end badly if you

put the same amount of Flouride in the bottled water as in the tap water?

And I agree about the plastic bottles, but they do put water in biodegradeable cartons, too.

[bedazzled]

46. Not to mention the hormone disrupters in plastic

Estrogenic compounds are very damaging

[moondust]

31. Prescription fluoride supplement.

Prevident 5000 Plus or generic SF 5000 Plus (available at Walmart and other pharmacies). Maybe others???

https://www.drugs.com/compare/prevident-5000-plus-vs-sf-5000-plus

I've used SF for years and believe it works.

[delisen]

35. China has banned fluoridating water supplies.

Referencing pararagraph 6 in op:

China has areas where an excess of naturally occurring fluoride has led to bone deformities in children and other issues. China has banned the fluoridation of drinking water in all of China.

China does allow the processing of a form of fluoride to be exported to the US.

[mahina]

44. Soon to be former water superintendent I sure hope.