Family pit bulls maul to death toddler and baby brother

[867-5309.]

Two young children died and their mother was hospitalized after they were attacked by the family dogs in Tennessee, the Shelby County Sheriff’s Office says.

Detectives responded to a home near Shelby Forest State Park, just north of Memphis, on Wednesday afternoon, the sheriff’s office said via Twitter.

A two-year-old girl and a 5-month-old boy were dead at the home. Their mother was also attacked by the dogs, authorities said...

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/08/us/tennessee-dogs-kill-toddler-baby

No fault of their own, but pit bulls are not suitable as pets, imo.

[LeftInTX]

1. Not a pit bull fan

Too many of them.
Too much work for a family pet.

[TigressDem]

21. Must be trained correctly from a pup

My son trained his as a beta and son was the alpha

Kids could put their hands in the dog food bowl and dog didn't even growl.

Oldest kid at 2 years old decided for some stupid reason to smack the dog on his nut sack. Dog sat down as if to say, "Nope you do not get to do THAT again. EVER AGAIN" but did not even move toward the kid.

Dog accidentally chewed on something made of wicker and got a piece stuck in the punching bag like deal at the back of his throat.
My son reached in and plucked it out. I was concerned. I thought a gag reflex would not be controllable and the dog would bite down without trying. Lots of teeth. Nope.

But if someone came near the car while dog was guarding. His bark and teeth could rip a white streak in your hair it was so scary.

Come after one of the kids, you die.

Take him for a walk and he might forget you are there. Had to sit down in the snow and he dragged my butt 3 feet before he remembered and came back and licked my face off.

Saved my DIL from drowning when she got a leg cramp.


BEST DOG EVER.

[questionseverything]

31. That's what this family thought for 8 years

Then it killed

[TigressDem]

44. Like I told Jade...

I suspect the dog in the original article either didn't get the kind of training my son (gave his dog) and/or had an illness, injury or rabies. To go for 8 years without any sign of this type of behavior and then go berserk is unusual for any family dog.

[questionseverything]

47. You said your son's dog would kill if someone messed with his kids

So it’s established they are dangerous , it’s just a matter if you think they are dangerous to the correct people

Not a week goes by that I don’t read a story of a family pit going nuts and killing/ maiming their owners

[TigressDem]

52. Yeah. He had the equipment, but he would stand down when told to.

If someone came into the house and tried to hurt a family member, he would have fought them off, to the death if need be. Most dogs would, but due to his size and ability to put up a good fight, he'd do a lot of damage.

If someone came into my house and tried to hurt a family member, I might do the same. Sure words first, call 911, hope for the best, but if push comes to shove a person has the right to defend themselves and that is part of why people have dogs. They are loyal and will protect their family.

That said.

IF a dog attacks for a reason other than to defend their family in this type of situation, it should be put down.

Once that line has been crossed, something in the dog has changed and is not safe any more.

[questionseverything]

53. Omg why would anyone wait until children are dead?

If a pit obeys it is because they owner has convinced the pit the owner is the alpha

At some point those dogs may decide to show the children they ( the dogs) are the alpha

Hope you get a warning

[TigressDem]

56. Those dogs are past pets. Died years ago. No worries.

My son convinced those dogs that they were beta and the family members above them.

He also trained him to be basically passive. Out on walks other dogs would bark at him like crazy but he'd look at them like they were nuts and just keep walking. That kind of behavior on his part was rewarded.

Some dogs are more zen than others. We got very lucky.

[Hekate]

57. Toddlers are random creatures. I snatched a neighbor's child out of the traffic when she ran...

…out between her dad’s parked truck and another parked car. Just like that. It was only happenstance that I saw her in the small moment while her parents’ backs were turned. Toddlers aren’t rational.

Even the best dog can be startled and react. I was at a baby shower, sitting on the floor next to my daughter’s doggy, one of my favorite dogs ever — under-5 pounds of Jack Russell/Pomeranian cross, super smart. A toddler was on the couch and rolled off; in a split second I knew the wee girl wasn’t going to be hurt by the fall, but the dog would be crushed, and I put my hand between them as fast as ever I could. The dog snapped, and I was frankly surprised at how badly my finger was slashed by her little teeth.

The pit bulls in the OP had their lives all figured out and running smooth for 6 years before the first baby showed up. That’s stressful. Then it became a toddler, and another baby showed up.

You want a baby-sitter, get a golden retriever or border collie or a Labrador.

[leftyladyfrommo]

101. There is a thing called rage syndrome.

I have wondered if some of these attacks are a result of rage syndrome.

[TigressDem]

49. One other thought....

I asked an owner if I could pet her pitt bull who was quite docile and she said, "Yes" then it bit me. Not like trying to tear my hand off or anything, no stitches required. They took off and I had to get rabies shots, so I know dogs can be triggered for what appears to be no reason at all.

I had been cleaning with bleach before we went out to Dairy Queen, where we encountered the dog. It occurred to me that my hands still smelled strongly of bleach, so the dog might have not known what to do with a person who smelled like that.

[Jade Fox]

41. This reads like a fantasy.......

If the dog comes after one of the kids, the kid will be dead before you can do anything about it.

[TigressDem]

42. We have never had another dog "that" good, but the next dog after he died wasn't bad.

The Pitt Bulls were brought in by early American farmers to help them deal with Alpha predators.

Dogs are pack animals. Usually their human family is part of the pack. When the pitt is the beta, he would not attack anyone in his pack. It's instinct. My son had a baby sitter who had a wolf hybrid and had to learn how to manage him. So he saw it first hand and duplicated it.

I know it sounds unreal. I know a lot of much tamer dog breeds that would not have put up with the crap my grand kids gave that dog. He was a fricken saint, that dog was. One of a kind but so loved by the family. Fed him too much human food and he got diabetes.

I suspect the dog in the original article either didn't get the kind of training my son did and/or had an illness, injury or rabies. To go for 8 years without any sign of this type of behavior and then go berserk is unusual for any family dog.

Oh my son's second dog was nicknamed dumb dumb by his wife, he really was dumb as a rock most days. BUT he saved my son from a bear when he was out fishing at a remote site. Chased the bear and then gallumped back when my son whistled for him like some Disney dog with no brain at all.

[Jade Fox]

51. So why did Cesar Millan's own pit bull attack him....

and at least one other person and kill Queen Latifah's dog, both of which he's being sued for?

I understand Millan is the main proponent of the whole "pack theory", which other trainers/animal behaviorists believe is bunk.

[TigressDem]

55. I don't know.

I only know that I did have experiences with two good pit bulls.

I also had a medium sized dog when I was growing up that would pick fights with dobermans and German shepherds.

It could be that because people have been using them for dog fights that the breed is changing genetically.

My son's pits were from 8 - 10 years ago.

[LeftInTX]

64. The alpha thing works in the presence of the alpha

Dogs just aren't that smart, unless they're a special trained service dog.

They may appear to be obeying to an "invisible master" but for the most part they have brains like little kids and will constantly test boundaries if not supervised. Many dogs suffer from boredom and loneliness and need constant structure.

I highly doubt if these dogs had rabies.

They were probably bored and the mom of the two kids took for granted that her kids were OK because nothing had happened previously. Just because a dog "appears" to be obeying when the owner is out of site does not mean that they are obeying. They may be tired. They may think the owner is in the room etc.

All dogs are pretty much like little kids and will test boundaries at an given time. My chihuahua was great when I was in the the room. (Better when I had her full attention) However, if I left she would often start shaking....Eventually it would be followed by crying etc.

[vercetti2021]

2. Yes they are

Mine is a sweet girl and never would hurt anyone. But also depends on how the dog is brought up. Any dog can be a violent animal due to bad owners

[Rebl2]

5. True

I like to look at dogs, but don’t want one. I agree with you. Depends on where you got the dog and how it’s been treated/raised.
I was chased by a dog when I was four or five. It didn’t attack me because my mom flew out of the house when she heard me screaming. She screamed at it and chased it away. This was in the early sixties when people were allowed to let their dogs roam. Have been scared of big and small dogs ever since.

[Fullduplexxx]

6. I'm sure they said the same thing... they are until they aren't

[vercetti2021]

16. Mine is a hound

Big ol baby she is. She was abused for 2 years before she was rescued and we gave her a lot of love and she is ok now. Again I believe it's the way they are raised

[Fullduplexxx]

23. Well I was referring to pit bulls . They're like those bears that people sit with sit with while

For pictures . A hundred people will get thru it just fine but the 101st gets mauled

[moonshinegnomie]

92. from a peer reviewed scientific article by the american vet medical association

Owners of pit bull-type dogs deal with a strong breed stigma, however controlled studies have not identified this breed group as disproportionately dangerous. The pit bull type is particularly ambiguous as a "breed" encompassing a range of pedigree breeds, informal types and appearances that cannot be reliably identified. Visual determination of dog breed is known to not always be reliable. And witnesses may be predisposed to assume that a vicious dog is of this type.

It should also be considered that the incidence of pit bull-type dogs' involvement in severe and fatal attacks may represent high prevalence in neighborhoods that present high risk to the young children who are the most common victim of severe or fatal attacks. And as owners of stigmatized breeds are more likely to have involvement in criminal and/or violent acts46—breed correlations may have the owner's behavior as the underlying causal factor.


https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/literature-reviews/dog-bite-risk-and-prevention-role-breed

[Sogo]

67. "Abused for two years...."

...."and she is ok now."

And you can be sure she has no triggers???

[SheltieLover]

8. And how the dog is handled

[inthewind21]

161. And

How inbred the dog is.

[pandr32]

15. The family that owned these dogs likely loved them.

I hear what you claim often, and it may be true if the dogs had been abused, but too often these sudden attacks happen in normal households where there had been no prior warnings.
Statistics do not prove your "bad owner" charge.

[JCMach1]

35. You can't win a rational argument against fur baby stans

Unfortunately

[vercetti2021]

54. Sorry for loving my dog

Oh wait I'm not.

[JCMach1]

60. Point being they are in denial about certain breeds of dogs...

Bottom line, human beings are more important.

[flvegan]

65. Denial about what? Be specific.

[JCMach1]

73. Absolutely proving my point there is no discourse to be had with fur baby stans

I also stand by my point when it comes people vs. animals, people come first.

[flvegan]

77. Epic fail. Try again.

I'd be embarrassed by that. But whatever.

[Solomon]

98. Let me try. I've been on the Animal Matters Hearing Board for more than 10 years in my county.

We hold hearings on cases involving animals - any animals, but mostly cases involving dogs. And of these dog cases, dogs killing other dogs, dogs biting people, etc., pit bulls are at the top of the list. I get so sick of the "it's how they are raised", " it's how the owner treats them", "it's not the dogs' fault" tripe we get at every hearing involving a pit bull ripping somebody or another dog to shreds. "You don't understand, he such a nice, lovable dog". " He's good with babies and children", blah, blah... Until it isn't.

It's bullshit. Pitbulls are dangerous. Folks who have "lovable" pit bulls are just lucky and playing with fire. They're lovable until they snap. Of course some of them are raised to be asshole dogs by asshole owners. Its why that bought a pitbull in the first place. But even the ones "raised the right way" can turn on their owners.

So yes, there's a lot of denial about pitbulls. The next county over where I am has banned then for years. Naturally some idiot has filed a lawsuit to unban them because they want to move in with their "precious" pitbull.

I'll never understand the fascination with pitbulls.

[flvegan]

105. I love anectodal evidence.

Allow me to counter your 10 years of experience.

I ran a rescue for over 20 years, mostly pitbull and "dangerous" dogs. Never had a single incident. Not in my rescue, not in the homes they were adopted to. Thousands of dogs.

But hey, you tried.

[LeftInTX]

116. How about the American Veterinary Medical Association?

Dog bite risk and prevention: The role of breed

Owners of pit bull-type dogs deal with a strong breed stigma,44 however controlled studies have not identified this breed group as disproportionately dangerous. The pit bull type is particularly ambiguous as a "breed" encompassing a range of pedigree breeds, informal types and appearances that cannot be reliably identified. Visual determination of dog breed is known to not always be reliable.45 And witnesses may be predisposed to assume that a vicious dog is of this type.

It should also be considered that the incidence of pit bull-type dogs' involvement in severe and fatal attacks may represent high prevalence in neighborhoods that present high risk to the young children who are the most common victim of severe or fatal attacks. And as owners of stigmatized breeds are more likely to have involvement in criminal and/or violent acts46—breed correlations may have the owner's behavior as the underlying causal factor.

And why were the dogs in your rescue mostly these types of breeds?

There are more dogs that are turned into our animal control which are pit lab mixes, boxer mixes etc than other dogs. The tags always say, "American Staffordshire Terrier Mix or Lab Mix or Cur)They are turned loose by owners.

On Nextdoor people find these dogs and don't know what to do with them. "Don't send it to Animal Control, they will be put down"...So, the person that finds the dog contacts every rescue that they can find. The rescues are all full.

They contact numerous no-kill Human Societies and Animal Defense League and those facilities are full.

Way back in 1989, we "found" a dog. The vet said it was a collie mix. I thought it was a malamute. It was pregnant. I had a three year old and was extremely sick with a pregnancy at that time. Stupid husband wanted to keep the dog. After the dog had her puppies, my son was outside with them. My son started juggling the puppies.

At this point, we had to get rid of the mom and her pups. I physically could not take care of myself, my son and the dogs.

The Humane Society, ADFL etc would take the three weeks old puppies, but not the mother.

So, we were left with a mother without her pups. She went nuts. The mother ate our picnic table and garden hose. We put an ad in the paper. A dad and his daughter picked up the dog. However, they lived in an apartment. I told my hubby, "I don't have a good feeling about this one". Hubby said, "Dog isn't our problem anymore"....

Well, that was not the end of it. A week later, we got a call from the apartment manager. Apparently the dog had been abandoned the first day and was causing all sorts of trouble at the apartment complex. It was impounded at a suburban animal facility. (The suburb is so small that the impound is a veterinarian's office. https://bhtx.gov/city-services/animal-care-control) We had to pay $50 to get it out or they were going to put it to sleep. Eventually we found a farm for the dog. But this whole ordeal was a nightmare. The dog wasn't dangerous. It wasn't a pit mix or anything. We did everything in our power to prevent sending that dog to Animal Control.

This was in 1989, I imagine it's even harder to rehome a stray dog today.

[flvegan]

154. Post #92. n/t

[TheBeam19]

111. Logic and data will never defeat emotion.

That’s what’s happening here.

Good post.

[vercetti2021]

72. In my opinion

Fuck humans. Humanity has ruined this world, they are dishonest and are out for themselves. Now dogs don't do that. Dogs are better than humans

[inthewind21]

162. So do tell

What dog has the most powerful bite and what dog bites the most?

[vercetti2021]

74. Totally are

Pitties are used.more in dog fighting for that reason. Trash people will get a stereotype breed to fight with.

My dog isn't trash.

[Polybius]

124. It's not always due to bad owners

Maybe most of the time it is, but just like with humans, sometimes it depends on individual personality. Sometimes a killer grows up in a wonderful home to loving parents.

My cousin was viciously attacked (bit on the neck) at around 2 years old by a husky breed because she dropped her bottle near the dog and reached for it. This family was awesome and treated the dog like a family member. The dog was like 6 or so at the time, so it knew my cousin for all of her life. She almost died, but thankfully there were others in the room at the time.

[JCMach1]

164. And that is why humans 'selectively' bred dogs. Absolutely nothing

Wrong with breed and breed reproduction bans.

[Poiuyt]

3. The article doesn't say anything about pit bulls

Do you know that's what kind of dogs they were?

[Lochloosa]

4. They were pits Different article that for some reason I can't post.

The children's mother was also injured in the incident involving two pit bulls in their home near Shelby Forest State Park, according to the Shelby County Sheriff's Office

[Glorfindel]

9. Here's an article with photos...

https://nypost.com/2022/10/07/tennessee-mom-kirstie-jane-bennard-hospitalized-after-her-2-kids-killed-in-pit-bull-attack/

[Poiuyt]

11. Thanks

I don't care to look at any pictures though

[MissB]

20. Covered by a sensitive content warning

I didn’t look at those, but the page had photos of the parents, kids and dogs. The parents looked quite normal.

[mahina]

7. This is just the most heartbreaking thing I've read

Last edited Sat Oct 8, 2022, 07:34 PM - Edit history (1)

That poor mother, those poor babies. Unimaginable
May they heal hearts someday, somehow.

Whatever we think about Pitbulls, and we had one in our house who had been abandoned, dogs and babies shouldn’t be together if the dog is not under control and if there's the slightest uncertainty with them. We all make decisions balancing risks, costs and benefits. I’m not blaming the mom but saying what I think is obvious.

[uppityperson]

32. This is tragic indeed. Those poor parents and kids,

Dogs and babies, must be so very careful.

[Mariana]

66. "...dogs and babies shouldn't be together if the dog is not under control..."

Most likely, these dogs were under control, until they weren't.

[LeftInTX]

110. A five month old should never be left alone with any pet...this includes dogs and cats.

Actually toddlers are probably more at risk for bad cat encounters than infants.

Toddlers can be left along for a short time in some cases. For instance we had a chihuahua and a two year old. Two year old was a mellow two year old. I would leave him alone with the dog when I used the restroom etc.

We also had a few other dogs (blue heeler and schnauzer) and we could not leave our young children alone with them.

[Mariana]

125. The mother was there. The dogs put her in the hospital.

[LeftInTX]

127. I bet the attack happened when she was out of the room.

All it takes is a trip to the bathroom.

[LeftInTX]

140. The NY Post says, "Outside their home"

Whatever that means??

Kinda doubt this occurred while walking the dogs? Two pit bulls, a two year old and a five month old all walking together? Baby in a stroller. Two year old walking alongside? Ugh, I've seen stuff like this myself. I always get out of the way because in these situations the dogs are not the best behaved and not the best focused.

Were they in the yard? Mom could have turned her back, gone to a different part of the yard...Anything is possible.

From the father who owns a Harley dealership. Sounds like they were on the macho careless side. I would not be surprised if they also have unlocked firearms in their home. Adorable kids, but parents probably were careless. Father refers to the dogs as their "home security lions". I would not let a lion lose with kids, yet they likely did.

[Mariana]

141. Even if Mom was staring right at them from two feet away

it's obvious that she wouldn't have been able to stop them, once they decided to kill her and the children,

[LeftInTX]

146. I read this, but don't know how accurate it is:

The mom and kids were outside the kids’ grandparents’ home. Mom was holding baby and throwing a ball for the dogs. The 2 year old went for the ball and the attack began. Mom ran to help the child and even covered her with her body, but the Pitts ripped the baby from her arms and tore that baby to pieces. A coworker of one of the parents said the mom had started having concerns about the dogs and wanted to rehome them but dad said absolutely not.


It's a comment, so I don't know........

[Mariana]

149. The mom had started having concerns about the dogs...

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the dogs were showing signs of aggression toward the children, and maybe toward Mom, before this happened. That's what usually comes out about these vicious dogs - they almost always have some history of menacing, chasing, or attacking people before they finally kill.

[Chainfire]

10. Most people get Pit Bulls because they are "Bad Ass." They are very popular around here.

I am a dog person, and I uses to believe that if I raised a Pit from a puppy, it would be fine, but I am just not sure. I would never adopt one. When you hear about a dog mauling a person, more times than not it will be a Pit.

[JI7]

12. And especially not with young kids in the home

[yonder]

14. Last time we went to the shelter, Pitties were by far the most common. For some reason.

We haven’t had a doggie for several years now, but would never consider a pit bull.

[The Revolution]

81. Yes, in our shelter too

And I think every single one of them has a sign on the kennel saying that the dog shouldn't be adopted into a home with other animals or small children.

[LeftInTX]

109. I watch our local shelter FB page. That's pretty much all there is if you want a healthy & younger

Pits and pit mixed, primarily with lab.

The more desirable breeds are scooped up by rescues or other groups. Families can't adopt a young smaller breed. So, they end up adopting pits and pit mixes.

Our shelter also put a hold on spay and neutering during Covid and that was horrible mistake....

[pandr32]

17. +1

[vercetti2021]

18. We adopted ours

Shes a big ol hound dog. Shes just a big scaredy cat pupper

[Chainfire]

25. I am glad that you are having good luck with her.

You have to keep in mind that over the years, dogs have been bred, among many other things, to hunt birds, herd sheep, and to fight. The traits can be hard-wired into them. I believe, that some breeds of dogs are more dangerous than others.

[marybourg]

28. And to be tenacious when in a fight.

[MissB]

22. The owners didn't seem to fit that stereotype

(Based on a link earlier in the thread)

But yes, any dog can be unpredictable. Pit bulls are particularly powerful.

I have a mutt that looks like a lab. He’s about 1/3 lab, 1/3 American bulldog and the rest is a mix of things like mastiff and Weimaraner. He’s huge. I’ve raised him since he was 8 weeks old. He clearly had a bully breed in him- the rescue group said lab, but nah, you could tell. His head and ears pretty much scream bully breed. Yet folks still see “lab” when he’s out and about.

He’s nearly 100 lbs. He doesn’t mix with my great niece and great nephews, because frankly I don’t want to find out how he does with little kids. He’s big enough that if he decided he didn’t like a little kid bugging him, he could do some damage. He’s never ever given me pause to be concerned but I’m not interested in finding out. He’s well trained and all that- I hired an excellent trainer to work one-on-one with us for the better part of a year.

But it would only take a moment. Not worth the risk.

I feel bad for these parents.

[ProfessorGAC]

34. That Lab Look Must Be Quite Dominant!

Mine is half black lab, 3/8ths some kind of pointer, and 1/8th aussie cattle dog.
He looks like a black lab! Only the gray spotted paws (cattle dog) reveal he's not pure lab.
We got him from a no kennel shelter at around 9 weeks.

[LeftInTX]

145. The owners fit the stereotype

The dad is covered in tats. Works at a Harley dealership. Referred to his pit bulls as "house guard lions" in 2014.

Shared a weird pic of a kid hugging a pitbull in 2016.."bullybreedforlife" (This would have been before his first child was born)

[IcyPeas]

13. The pets, Cheech and Mia, were a part of the family for more than eight years without a violent inci

wow, they were pets for 8 years. I wonder what make them do this.

While details of how the attack unfolded and why the pets became aggressive remain unclear, the tragic incident reportedly lasted about 10 minutes, according to Gibson.

The pets, Cheech and Mia, were a part of the family for more than eight years without a violent incident,

[Demovictory9]

19. Powerful looking dogs. All animals have the potential to go loopy.

Stronger animals do more damage

[ShazzieB]

157. Exactly.

[Edim]

171. They go nuts, small percentage of them, sometimes.

Seems out of the blue, for ne reason. Even the best, nicest, friendliest pets. Then, when they do attack, their 'gameness', killer instinct and ferocity make them so dangerous and deadly.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

24. Pit bulls can be fine pets and any dog can react at any time.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

27. Then why don't you read stories of chihuahuas, or poodles,

or Great Danes suddenly attacking?

There really is something different and potentially unstable about pit bulls. Yeah, how a dog is treated and raised matters, but if any dog could go off at any time it wouldn't always be the pit bull that does these terrible things.

[uppityperson]

30. Great Dane attack

https://meaww.com/shirley-faye-johnson-dead-dog-florida-sheriff-john-tate-holmes-county

[questionseverything]

33. First dane attack article I have ever seen

But I have seen hundreds of pit bull attacks

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

71. Yep. And notice no one ever can post stories of other

breeds attacking, and at worst killing humans. Oddly enough, it's always pit bulls.

[LeftInTX]

36. Any large powerful dog can inflict serious injury

These include Great Danes

Any dog can inflict injury, but let's face it a chihuahua bite isn't gonna make headlines.

All dogs require excellent socialization. Larger breeds require more. I would never own a dog that weighs more than me!

[Genki Hikari]

59. Even small dogs can make headlines for gravely injuring people

https://www.koreaboo.com/news/heres-photo-bite-wound-siwons-dog-made-caused-death-ceo/

[ratchiweenie]

37. You rarely hear about the family dog killing children, other than Pitties. I know they

are very sweet but there is something not quite right with them and they can be dangerous.

[Hekate]

46. Chihuahuas are quite aggressive little so-and-sos as a breed -- but they are also very small...

I wouldn’t let a toddler alone with one — but if worse came to worst and the dog got its tail yanked, the baby wouldn’t be killed.

Pit bulls, on the other hand, have had so much bad breeding by people who want a vicious dog (I don’t care what their excuse is) that there is no way I’d ever have one for a family pet. Blessings to those who want to do pit rescues, though.

[questionseverything]

50. You make a good point, the guard dog shouldn't be the family pet

[Tanuki]

76. Not defending pit bills, but there are lots of incidents involving Rottweilers.

[Sogo]

135. I was once almost one of those incidents....

A woman had a Rott chained to the side of her house unbeknownst to me, and one day when I was walking on the sidewalk along side her house, all of a sudden, right next to my face was her Rott in full attack mode. Simultaneously, I heard the rattle of its chain, smelled its breath, and heard its growling bark all within inches of my head/face. The dog's chain was just long enough for the dog to reach to the sidewalk, but no further. It scared me so much that I collapsed to the ground, luckily on the ground to the other side of the sidewalk. I looked back, and the woman had come out onto her porch and was looking down at her dog who had returned to the side of the house.

I looked at the woman in disbelief; she only glanced at me and showed no concern. I got up, and walked straight to the police station, which was about three blocks away. I started telling the front desk person, "There is a dog at the corner of _____ and _________, and it nearly ripped my face off." Before I could even get the entire sentence out, a cop was up and out the door behind me.

I traced back to the scene, staying on the other side of the street, and the cop was at her house having a heated discussion with the owner. It was obvious from that that the cops had been alerted about the dog before. Not long after, the woman and the dog were gone from that house. I've never forgotton the sheer terror that shot through my entire body, which alone knocked me off my feet. If it had been a small child or elderly person in that incident, I'm sure the dog would have easily killed them.

There is an ordiance in my small town against owning and housing dangerous breeds: pit bulls, rottweilers, weimaraners, doberman pinschers, huskies, etc. No one will ever convince me that isn't a wise ordinance....

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

148. Chained to the side of her house.

That tells me almost everything I need to know.

And I agree, certain dog breeds need to be controlled.

Oh, and size isn't the only thing, although it's true that chihuahuas are so small they could not do much harm before being controlled.

My brother has done Irish Wolfhound rescue for about thirty years now. Irish Wolfhounds are the tallest of all dogs, and are gentle giants. Sweet, affectionate, a friend to all. They don't really make good guard dogs because they like everyone they see. I'm suppose there has been the odd rogue Wolfhound out there that has done something bad, but you sure don't read about them the way you read about pit bulls and rottweilers.

[sir pball]

88. Because their bites aren't severe enough to make news.

Proper studies, not anecdotal news reports, have shown that small and medium breeds are actually the most aggressive, but a Chihuahua nipping an ankle doesn't make the local paper let alone the national news. Also, pits aren't especially dangerous, and BSL (Breed-Specific Legislation) doesn't work.

For example, a survey of general veterinary clientele in Canada (specifically practices in New Brunswick, Novia Scotia, and Prince Edward Island) identified Lhasa Apso, Springer spaniel and Shih Tsu as more likely to bite.

While small dogs may be more aggressive their size means they are less likely to inflict serious bite injury[…]
-----------------
Owners of pit bull-type dogs deal with a strong breed stigma, however controlled studies have not identified this breed group as disproportionately dangerous.
-----------------
While some study authors suggest limiting ownership of specific breeds might reduce injuries (e.g., pit bull type, German Shepherd Dog) it has not been demonstrated that introducing a breed-specific ban will reduce the rate or severity of bite injuries occurring in the community. Strategies known to result in decreased bite incidents include active enforcement of dog control ordinances, and these may include ordinances relating to breed.

[Wingus Dingus]

26. I will never understand the impulse to make family pets out of this breed.

There are so many wonderful breeds and mixes of dogs that have near-zero chance of attacking your neighbors or eating your children. Why this breed? Why have a potential danger and liability like this in your household?

[LeftInTX]

38. Sometimes that is all that is available at the shelters

Additionally, there is a trend to encourage their adoption.
They're a bully breed and not for everyone.

They also have large litters and many of their owners are irresponsible owners. In ghetto areas, owners let them run loose. Then there are more.

[Jirel]

48. They WERE the #1 family dog at one point.

Before you start casting stones at a breed, know something about it. Decades ago, they were bred for gentleness, frankly by killing off dogs that would snap at people. They were nanny dogs around kids.

The jackasses who injected the breeding with their toxic masculinity, who wanted MORE aggressive dogs, have harmed many bloodlines.

Don’t blame the dog or the breed. There is nothing inherently dangerous or aggressive about Pits. If you’re going to have one around young kids, though, researching breeders and bloodlines is important. You wouldn’t buy an unknown dog from a line that might’ve been bred for fighting, any more than you’d go to the most macho breeder of security-trained German Shepherds if you wanted a gentle family pet.

[ShazzieB]

158. Do you have a source for this?

They WERE the #1 family dog at one point.

Unless you have a credible source you can cite for this, it's hearsay and therefore carries no weight. I've heard this claim before, as well as the nanny dog trope, but I've never seen any convincing documentation for either.

I am neither a pit bull hater or a pit bull fan. I honestly don't understand the attraction they and other bully breeds seem to have for some people, though. I'm sure there are individualpit bulls that are lovely, delightful dogs, but the world is full of dogs that are delightful and deserving. I don't understand why some people seem to be obsessed with this one particular type to the point where they will go out of the way to own one even if it means fighting with landlords and/or local laws to do so.

No matter how friendly, affectionate, and safe I thought they were, I would be uncomfortable keeping a dog so many are afraid of and mistrust in my home. I don't see what possibly be so fantastic about ANY breed that would be worth the awkwardness of having to constantly reassure people that my dog isn’t dangerous (as far as I know) or having people feel uncomfortable visiting me. Especially when there are so many dogs needing homes who don't come with that baggage.

I have my own theories about why these dogs have so much appeal for some people, but I'll keep those to myself for now. They're just theories, and if I reveal them, I'll have to defend them, which I'm not up for at the moment.

[MuseRider]

29. I have had tons of dogs

over my long life. We went through all of them with some rescues thrown in and mixes but it was not until a couple of years ago we rescued the biggest dog we have ever had. They said he was a pitty mix with maybe Mastiff or Vizla. He was the goofiest, kindest dog we have ever had. An honest, 95 pound, good Joe with an undisclosed to us very bad seizure disorder. He was dead in 2 years, he was my best friend, I will never get over that one. So now we have another Boxer/Pit and who knows what. Again one of the sweetest BUT he does have a tendency to snap if you are not cordial and careful taking something from him. Not always but I know to be careful now. Other than that he is sweet to everyone and our kitties and our other new, not pitty, rescue. I would say they have been bred horribly and there are surely those dogs like them in this very sad story. Most people I know who have them and especially those with a mix are living with their best friends and goofiest roomies.

It is a crap shoot with dogs that are bred from dogs raised to kill or fight. I do not know, since so many are rescues, how you would know. I will not let my 7 year old Granddaughter around our dog without us being there but mainly because he would knock her to the floor to kiss her, he weighs almost 75 pounds.

[ARPad95]

39. The dogs were family pets for 8 years, but the children were only in the household with them for 2

years and 5 months, respectively. Tragically, it was probably too much of a stressor for the dogs to be around a toddler and an increasingly active baby.

[Quixote1818]

40. I would not own one but here are 25 myths about Pit Bulls

https://www.newsweek.com/pit-bull-myths-facts-history-dogs-pets-1567290

[Jirel]

43. Once again, an ununreasoning pit bull hater.

They are no different than any other dog that size. Bloodline (if some were bred for aggression) and training matter.

They used to be the #1 FAMILY dog until the toxic masculinity dogfighting asshats turned them into an obsession.

They are delightful, sweet critters, when not abused and/or trained to be killers.

[LeftInTX]

58. When were they the number one family dog?

Those Victorian pics are from pitt bull lobbyists.
There is a big pit pull lobby group and they say this stuff.
They love to post pit bull and baby pics then and now. It never ends. Thr dodo has a Pitt bull nation channel.

I never heard of pit bulls until the 80s.
When I was a kid, it was beagles, collies and cocker spaniels.

Not one source lists them as a family.dog,..AKC lists hunting dogs on the 1880s, in 1925 German Shephards. Later it's spaniels, poodles, beagles and labs. Just the pitt bull lobby groups says this.

[867-5309.]

61. Pit bull mixes are 6% of the US dog population, 60% of all injuries

Pitbull attacks have higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than attacks by other breeds.

[flvegan]

63. Show your math.

[Duppers]

83. Made me curious, so...

Last edited Sun Oct 9, 2022, 06:18 AM - Edit history (1)

I found this link...

https://www.coloradoinjurylaw.com/dog-bite-statistics/

We never had a pitty but inherited a mix from my mother when she died. He was the most disagreeable, stubborn animal I have ever dealt, since an insane Pekingese we kept for only 2wks.
However, the pitty-mix showed NO tendency toward violence to people whatsoever.

But his meeting our dog-loving cat went very badly: he tried to attack her. Being absolutely fearless, that little kitty almost tore his eyes out. Honestly, the split second she realized his intent, she flew onto his face. On his face, not kidding. He ran crying. She's the most fearless, tough kitty we ever adopted.

[flvegan]

103. Cool. Now

check where that "data" comes from and get back to me.

[867-5309.]

99. Here

https://time.com/2891180/kfc-and-the-pit-bull-attack-of-a-little-girl/

[flvegan]

104. See post #62.

[JCMach1]

75. Having almost been finished by one as a kid I respectfully disagree

If I hadn't pulled a Dukes of Hazzard move, diving through an open car window I would have been mauled by someone's adorable little family, pitbull dog...

I have had other breeds of large dogs and NO, they have never, ever acted out in such a manner.

[flvegan]

78. You sure?

[JCMach1]

80. There are a number of breeds that need to be permanently banned/eliminated

Through breeding/sales bans.

They were selectively made the way they were, we can deselect them.

[newdayneeded]

129. Do you think these two

pit maulers were trained to kill by that family? doubt that.

[cate94]

45. How very sad.

[flvegan]

62. Man, back in the day, there would have been several links in a pit bull thread

to the Merritt Clifton bullshit report, and the CDC debunked report. Links to the dogbite.com/org ambulance chasing shit lawyer. I like that we've almost evolved.

I mean evolved short of people thinking that a tragedy like this is breed based.

"pit bulls are not suitable as pets, imo." Thanks for the disclaimer, poster.

[867-5309.]

114. Do you have other data

that shows otherwise? Curious if you own one of these?

[ripcord]

69. It can happen with any large breed

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/80-year-old-woman-allegedly-mauled-to-death-by-dogs-in-san-bernardino-county/

Just happened today, two Dogo Argentinos killed an 80 year old woman out for a walk.

[flvegan]

155. The source of all that data?

[LeftInTX]

107. Dogos and Cane Corsas are bad news

Pit Bulls are in the news because it seems just about every healthy, young dog available at the city shelter where I live is a pit bull, or pit bull mix.

Pit bulls are everywhere.

I sure hopes dogos and cane corsas are not the next pit bull. There is a woman here who runs the RNC Hispanic Center. We've been spying on her. Her and her hubby own dogos.

[dalton99a]

70. Family no longer says they're such sweet dogs

[Hekate]

79. You want a baby-sitter, get a golden retriever or a border collie or a Labrador

[LeftInTX]

108. Dogs are not baby sitters! If you want a baby sitter, get a human!

If the the golden retriever, border collie or lab is the pet, children can be taught to handle the dog. This training would be the most appropriate for kindergarten age and up. (Yes, some training can be done with toddlers and preschool, but I would think the training would be dog safety like where you can pet the dog...when you shouldn't pet the dog..older toddlers can also give commands like sit) |

Kindergarten up is more focused on dog obedience etc. Kindergarten and up often participate in dog obedience classes.

However, younger children don't understand how dogs' minds work. (Children have object permanence, dogs do not, but children don't quite grasp the concept) Training a child to train a dog is an ongoing process that starts young and will continue all the way through adolescence.

I believe in this particular case, the dogs were not baby sitters. I believe the mom just wasn't in the room or wherever the dogs were. The kids had probably been left alone with them before and nothing happened.

[betsuni]

85. I'm scared of animals with enormous strong jaws.

Someone in my previous neighborhood had a giant dog with an enormous head and jaws. They kept a muzzle on it while walking it. I won't watch Giada De Laurentiss cooking shows because she has an enormous mouth and too many teeth. Scary.

[roxybear]

86. Pit bulls are loving family dogs; like hell they are

I was attacked by the neighbor's pit bull a couple years ago. I had just gone to their house and knocked on the back door to talk to them. The pit bull went crazy, flew out of the back door and started biting me. I guess I was lucky she was in a good mood, she ony bit my arms and hand. The neighbor says she's such a loving family dog and wouldn't hurt a fly. Like Hell!!! Even after the attack they wouldn't admit she was dangerous. One day the dog will get loose and kill one of the neighborhood kids. They'll say they never knew she was like that. People shouldn't be allowed to own pit bulls.

[moonshinegnomie]

87. you are more likley to by hit by lightning than killed by a dog

dog bite kill on average 30-50 people a year. 300 a year are struck by lightning.
this pit bull haterd is nonsense. i have a pit mix. ive worked with pit mixes. they are no more dangerous than any other large dog typically use as a guard dog. (rottie,german shepard,etc....)

lawnmowrs kill more people in the use per year. better ban them

[roxybear]

89. This is all irrelevant if you're the one attacked.

I've only been attacked by one dog in my life. Of course it was a pit bull. If you were one of the "30-50 people a year" you'd sing a different tune.

[moonshinegnomie]

91. so ban lawnmowers

if youre one on the 75 poeple killed a year by them you'd sing a different tune.

[roxybear]

94. Not a good comparison.

People take the chance with lawnmowers because they need to use them. No one needs to own a pit bull.

[betsuni]

90. Nonsense.

Lightning isn't an animal with instincts.

[moonshinegnomie]

93. horses kill an anverage of 20 people per year

and there are a lot fewer horses. i dont see people calling for a ban on horses
cows kill the same number


https://allanimalsfaq.com/horse/how-many-people-do-horses-kill-a-year/

[betsuni]

95. ...

[treestar]

153. these comparisons aren't relevant

since horses can be ridden, draw vehicles, etc.

There are many types of dogs and people can find pets among the many different types, so there's no reason to sustain deaths caused by pit bulls no matter how few there are.

[ShazzieB]

160. +1

I agree 100%. I don't understand the obsession some people have with these dogs, why some are just bound and determined to own, proselytize about and defend them. I just don't get why they inspire such fanatical loyalty.

[honest.abe]

96. A lawnmower type that accounts for 70% of lawnmower deaths would be taken off the market.

[moonshinegnomie]

106. from a peer reviewed scientific study by the american vet medical association

Owners of pit bull-type dogs deal with a strong breed stigma, however controlled studies have not identified this breed group as disproportionately dangerous. The pit bull type is particularly ambiguous as a "breed" encompassing a range of pedigree breeds, informal types and appearances that cannot be reliably identified. Visual determination of dog breed is known to not always be reliable. And witnesses may be predisposed to assume that a vicious dog is of this type.


https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/literature-reviews/dog-bite-risk-and-prevention-role-breed

[moonshinegnomie]

128. so its the owner not the breed....

[honest.abe]

139. If there is a death there would be a thorough investigation and likely the animal caught.

The breed identification would certainly be part of the investigation by the police not just some random witness bystander. I would suspect the data is quite accurate where a person is killed.

[moonshinegnomie]

142. im willing to bet it isnt

i highly doubt they do any type of testing on the dog to see their breed

[honest.abe]

144. Not talking about testing. All they need to do is have a breed expert examine the dog.

Seems a standard obvious thing any investigation would do if a person was killed.

[LeftInTX]

118. Not an accurate comparison. 4.5 million dog bites, 6-12,000 hospitalizations/year USA

Last edited Sun Oct 9, 2022, 02:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Although they kill 30-50 people a year, around 4.5 million Americans are bitten by dogs every year, resulting in the hospitalization of 6,000 to 13,000 people each year in the United States (2005). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

Lightning strikes in 2021 were 69, resulting in 11 deaths.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/203715/injuries-and-fatalities-caused-by-lightning-in-the-us/#:~:text=Lightning%20damage%20in%20the%20U.S.%20%2D%20number,fatalities%20and%20injuries%201995%2D2021&text=In%202021%2C%20there%20were%20a,reported%20due%20to%20lightning%20nationwide.


Fatal dog attacks are on the rise. Lightning strikes are going down. In 2005 34 people died from dog attacks. In 2005, 38 people died, but now 40-55 are dying per year from dog attacks. Dogs can be controlled. Lightning cannot.



https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(09)70079-1/fulltext

[honest.abe]

97. Horrific. Yet another pitt bull kills story.

I live in PG county MD where Pitt Bulls are banned. We are thankful for that although I dont think the law is enforced very well.

[BannonsLiver]

100. The Pit Bull wars are back!

[leftyladyfrommo]

102. There are 18 million pitbulls in the US. In 2021

37 were killed by pitbulls. 21 of those were family members or owners. They are 6% of the dog population and are responsible for about 70% of fatal dog attacks.

This doesn't include nonfatal attacks.

As a pet sitter I won't take any of the bully breeds. I am really more afraid of American Bulldogs.

A pet sitter was almost killed not too long ago by 2 rescue pitbulls. She had visited the day before and played with those dogs butbwhen she went in the next day and the owners weren't there they attacked her.

Actually, I never have pit owners call.

[LeftInTX]

119. Hey, I had not very good encounter with an English Bulldog.

I volunteer for candidates and go door to door. At one house, the owner had an English Bulldog. The thing got out of the house and followed me. I was wearing a skirt and the thing kinda started going up my leg. (His claws were sharp) The dog was stubborn as heck and the owner claims, "He never gets out"...I believe this is true, because she had difficulty corralling him.

It wasn't a pleasant experience, and I could see how even that breed could get dangerous. I laughed it off because I didn't want to offend the voter. But I may just leave lit next time I'm at her door!

[debm55]

112. Neighbors Have 4 dogs now, 2 pits

My husband, RoxyBear, described his encounter with the dog. After it happened, he went to Med First. They were puncture wounds. When he was told that he would have to report the dog to the county, he left, as we didn't want to start a problem. While he was gone, neighbor came over and told us the county would put the dog to sleep as it was a pure breed. We did not report, Neighbors put up a fence. I was walking my American Eskimo. Pit got out of the house again, front door, and attacked my dog as I was walking her. My Dolly rolled on her back and Pit grabbed her by the neck. Another neighbor grabbed the Pit by the hind legs and we ran into the house. Got the bull shit about the nanny dog. Finally, this past summer, neighbors put up a black screening material so their now Pits could not see us. It didn't work. As I was walking to my fence, I saw the Pit on the pool deck, he charged from the deck to the fence, tore off the cloth, and crashed into the fence ripping out the bolts that hold the fence in place. I tripped over my dogs's leash and fell. Pit did another crash at the fence and got her head out. As a 67 year old, I never ran as fast as I did. Where were the neighbors--on the deck. What was I told again--Pits are nanny dogs. Bull shit. If you can't control your dog, you shouldn't have one. Frankly, I sick of the nanny dog shit and now carry mace when I walk the dog.

[XanaDUer2]

115. I'm so sorry this happens to you and your husband

It's ridiculous your life is like this over a neighbors' dog. What is the "nanny dog" defense? Are your neighbors actually saying they entrust children to these dogs?!

[debm55]

117. Thank you.

I time my walks when the dogs are not out. However, when I come back home, they are sometimes out. It's a crap shoot on when it's okay. Nanny dog--I used to collect old antique photos and the dogs were Pits. I have photos of children in photos with Pits or a very similar breed. Think of Petey on the Little Rascals--I might be wrong but I think in Peter Pan the dog was a Pit or close to it.People would use them to watch their children during the Victorian era. This was before dogfighting.

[XanaDUer2]

122. Interesting

I didn't know. I thought PB s were part of bad-ass culture. Good luck. If one bites you, I would report it. Maybe the neighbors are violent?

[debm55]

131. My husband, RoxyBear, has told them that the dog is dangerous.

My dolly barks in the morning--so it scares me that they will call the cops on her/us.

[LeftInTX]

121. "Nanny dog" is pit bull lobby propaganda

https://www.adoptapet.com/blog/for-over-100-years-pitbulls-were-our-babysitters/ (Good grief and BS)

Posing with studio prop dog does not mean it's a baby sitter!

Infants posing with pit bulls is a real thing!
Pit bulls and infants search:







Here is a more objective article about the concept
https://topdogtips.com/pit-bulls-nanny-dogs/

I think they are pushing bully breeds at rescues because that is what they have had available over the last 10 years. Small breeds aren't available. Puppy mills that bred small breeds are being shut down.

Now the available adoptable dogs are free-roaming large dogs picked up by municipal Animal Control facilities. They get put on the kill list because no one will claim them. Rescues then sweep them up and market the dogs.

I don't want to accuse the Humane Society of promoting the "Nanny dog" myth because they don't. (However, there are lots of pit bulls at the Humane Society and the Humane Society does have "adopt a pit bull" events) Humane Society is no kill, but there are back groups who are pushing bully breeds as nanny dogs.

[XanaDUer2]

123. Thank you

How strange. I don't do PBS. I'm scared of them.

[debm55]

133. Thank you for the info.

Yes I tried looking for friend for dolly. Put all they had at the humane society here in Pittsburgh were Pits.

[debm55]

136. sorry, forgot to add--

Last edited Sun Oct 9, 2022, 08:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Yes, they do have children over their house to swim. Kids play with them, it's a disaster waiting to happen, as they are too drunk to get their asses of the deck to see what us going on. Their deck has covers on the sides. I feel sorry for those babies and the mom.

[LisaL]

120. Your neighbor's dogs are clearly not nanny dogs.

Are you afraid of the neighbor? It's not clear to me why you didn't report these incidents? Your neighbor can't control his vicious dogs and it might end badly one of these days.

[Mariana]

126. I don't understand either.

The county would put the dog to sleep if the bite was reported? Good! Vicious dogs should be put to sleep.

[debm55]

130. My neighbors are MAGA.

Last edited Sun Oct 9, 2022, 06:27 PM - Edit history (1)

We are afraid of them---that they will hurt our dolly. Dolly walks down the street with me, stand on her back legs and dances in circles. I wouldn't want anything to happen to her. Where I live(south of Pittsburgh), I live in a mostly red area. I am afraid. With all the drinking and swearing and pot smoking going on next store, we don't want to make waves. Hell, neighbors complained when I planted sunflowers this year for Ukraine. Said I backed the wrong horse.

[XanaDUer2]

132. I'm so sorry

We were one terrorized by a drunken, drugged neighbor. The apt complex wanted them gone, too. That's when we found out he was armed.

[debm55]

134. He's a big mouth drug trumper.

Last edited Sun Oct 9, 2022, 04:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Told me he paid 15,000 for this gadget to stop his Pit from attacking. Well, they didn't use it when they were on the deck.--drunk and screaming at each other.

[XanaDUer2]

137. Our neighbor

Screamed he'd kill our Schipperke, Skippy. Our apt doors were side by side. We worried he would leave poisoned meat on the grass our dog would eat before we could stop him.

[mzmolly]

138. I agree on pit bulls.

Nearly every time I read about a deadly mauling, it's a pitt bull.

So very sad.

[Buckeyeblue]

143. You don't hear about herd dogs mauling kids

Or a lot of other breeds. Any dog can bite. But there is a difference between bite and maul.

And I know there are a bunch of stories about how great pit bulls can be. But there are also a number of sad stories like this one.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

147. Herding dogs love to protect and take care of kids

We were at neighborhood event and one of our bearded collies was wanting to go watch the kids at the event

[Kaleva]

156. Having pit bulls is like leaving a loaded gun laying around the house.

[hamsterjill]

159. It is NEVER the dog's fault.

Because a dog is a dog is a dog.

It is always human error. Whether that be by getting the dog in the first place, the way the dog is treated, the way the children are allowed to be with and behave around the dog, whatever.

Dogs will be dogs and the question comes down to “who has the bigger brain”.

I am sorry that this happened. My sympathy goes to the humans and to the dogs who will assuredly (and justifiably) be destroyed.

I see too many parents not watching the way their children treat animals. This may not be applicable to this situation. I don’t know. But I see video after video taken by parents with their toddlers rolling all over the family dog, pulling his ears, stepping on him, etc., all in the name of “it’s so cute”. It is NOT cute.

[867-5309.]

163. Humans should indeed manage dog ownership

and that includes not exposing your children (or anyone) to pit bulls.

They are products of how they were bred and sometimes trained. Their actions are instinctive, not thinking. None of that is their 'fault'.

Yet kids will be kids. I don't think anyone wants a dog who will be fine unless your kid rolls or steps on them, at which point he will maul them to death. Making a kid's actions part of the equation is a red herring.

[hamsterjill]

165. Kids' actions are the responsibility of the parents.

There’s nothing red herring about it. It’s called responsibility.

Parents are not perfect and they make mistakes. But the ultimate responsibility for a child lies with the parents. It’s not the responsibility of the dog not to be a dog.

[867-5309.]

166. A dog that will bite or attack if a kid steps on it or

does something similar is not an acceptable pet. Full stop.

Of course kids should be taught to treat animals correctly, but they won't be perfect and could accidentally step on the dog, etc.

[hamsterjill]

167. Have you seen the videos that I referenced?

It’s one thing for a kid to accidentally step on a dog or cat. Accidents happen.

But have you ever watched the videos of kids rolling on top of the family dog with it pinned underneath them, the ears back and muscles clinched with the caption “Junior and Rover are best friends”? That’s what I’m talking about.

I’ve been in animal rescue for decades and when we have a potential adoptor that we can tell isn’t suitable because they have no idea what owning a dog or cat involves, and they start telling us how great a home that animal is going to get - we tell them to start with a goldfish.

Thanks for the discussion and I hope you have a great evening.

[Mariana]

168. Please stop trying to pretend it's normal dog behavior to rip children to pieces.

It’s not the responsibility of the dog not to be a dog.

[hamsterjill]

169. I'm not saying it's normal behavior.

I’m saying it is the human’s responsibility to make sure that doesn’t happen.

If a human chooses a dog that has the potential to cause harm, it is the human’s responsibility to make sure that doesn’t happen. Human’s aren’t always perfect and things like this happen.

But you can’t blame a pit bull for being a pit bull. Most are wonderful pets, but they have the potential to cause harm because of their size and strength. It’s the human’s responsibility not to let that happen. “Who has the bigger brain” as I said up post.

I’m sorry you can’t understand my point.

[flvegan]

170. Can someone please tell me

how I could be this dumb?