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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFar-right writer: "I will vote for Democrats straight down the line"
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
elleng
(130,130 posts)Yavin4
(35,356 posts)A few converts is not nearly enough to stem the tide pulling us towards American Fascism and Authoritarianism. Instead, we need to focus on reaching out to the non-voters and building up our party's base.
Demsrule86
(68,348 posts)DickKessler
(358 posts)Every vote matters, doesnt matter from whom.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and are still at it. As we see.
Yavin, the essence of democracy is majority rule (with protections of the individual against tyranny of the majority). MAJORITY rule, theoretically, is at least one half plus one, but in real life it requires a larger majority that can stand against attacks by extremists and requires cooperation between different interests.
That's where this guy comes in. He's temperamentally suited to democracy. Some are not.
Abigail_Adams
(295 posts)Sogo
(4,963 posts)Yavin4
(35,356 posts)We need to be clear. Converting a few Republicans does nothing to build a lasting movement.
It's a vote. I suppose you'd prefer he'd vote for the GOP. It's not fetishization to be glad of a vote; nor does it push the Democratic party anywhere. It's common sense to take a vote wherever you can find it. Of course, that assumes one actually wants the Democrats to win.
Yavin4
(35,356 posts)Some celebrate it as if converting a Republican is some sort of victory when it's not really. We should be more focused on getting the politically alienated more involved and voting, not jumping for joy when a former Republican votes Dem.
iemanja
(53,001 posts)When one make hundreds of phone calls for GOTV, one is thrilled to convert a voter. You seem unfamiliar with that concept. That person's vote is every bit as good as yours. In fact, they seem to be trying to persuade people to vote for Democrats, but you're telling them you don't want their votes.
Yavin4
(35,356 posts)The Republican party is repugnant. We cannot waste time trying to convert them when there are far more votes among people who are completely disengaged and feel alienated.
ShazzieB
(15,952 posts)Who's talking about trying to convert anybody? This dude seems to have converted himself. Excuuuse me if I happen to think that's a pretty cool thing!
There is absolutely no reason not to be pleased when someone like this comes around, and there is even less reason to equate being pleased about it with wanting to "waste time trying to convert [Republicans]."
This is a good thing, any way you slice it, and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for any of us to see it as anything other than a positive thing. If you hate the idea so much, I'd say that's your problem.
betsuni
(25,126 posts)Agree with everything you said.
DFW
(54,051 posts)Granted, WE aren't going to convert any of the crazies because the crazies wouldn't listen to us if we told them that breathing oxygen is better than breathing methane.
However, this is one of their very own who came to this conclusion all by himself. Sure, they wouldn't even hear it if it came from Rachel Maddow. However, if it came from Hannity or Carlson, some of them WILL listen, and while nowhere near that level of influence, this guy is one of their own. When THEY become disengaged and aliented, those vote are ours to pick up as well. He may only be one vote, but who knows how many he might reach? People who will say, "wow, if HE feels that way, maybe I should listen." THAT is why it matters, not for his lone vote.
TigressDem
(5,121 posts)fet·ish·ism
noun
noun: fetishism; plural noun: fetishisms
1. a form of sexual behavior in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, activity, part of the body, etc. "erotic fetishism"
excessive and irrational devotion or commitment to a particular thing.
"a critique of the new technological fetishism"
2. worship of an inanimate object for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit.
I understand that you worry we are TOO focused on these types of "conversions" but try to see the way this resistance to common sense is playing out with the politically alienated.
WHAT is more alienating than seeing the two parties slugging it out and bringing guns to the polling locations?
EVEN if they can see that we are fighting FOR Democracy and ONLY IN SELF DEFENSE, it's still a cluster-f***
The idea of having the World see US in a little KUMBAYA moment with ANY Repuke might turn your stomach, I get it, but that's politics, amigo.
BUT IF WE CAN WORK WITH SOME OF THE MOST EXTREME ELEMENTS TO SAVE OUR COUNTRY, THAT IS A BIG STATEMENT.
It's the kind of stuff that makes people who have hesitated to vote begin to believe there might be something to this. IF IT CAN MAKE THOSE PEOPLE WORK TOGETHER, maybe it's worth it, HAS TO BE running in their thoughts.
THEN a DEM reaches out with sane and rational reasons to vote and we get less resistance. AT LEAST making the case for NOT voting for the MAGA crazies because even their own party doesn't want them is easier when MORE of their own party stand up and walk away from the MAGA slime fest.
AT any rate Yavin4, like someone else said, "We can multi-task" and you are right there is ALWAYS an advantage to getting more people to vote, because the more people who vote ALWAYS favors DEMS.
And the richest minefield for more votes is in the land of undecided.
paleotn
(17,778 posts)It's not fetishizing. It's recognizing that there are those to the right of us who do value democracy. Not just us Dems.
betsuni
(25,126 posts)TigressDem
(5,121 posts)States are working to take away voting rights. IF WE WIN MAJORITIES in 2022 and 2024, we have a chance to change it.
IF WE DON'T GET ALL UNDECIDED AND DISAFFECTED REPUBLICANS ON OUR SIDE TO SAVE DEMOCRACY, it's toast.
WE CAN'T TALK TO THE BASE THAT HAS GONE CRAZY listening to the propaganda.
BUT THEY LISTENED TO Republicans like the OP posted and his case is SOUND.
LIKE Liz Cheney said (AND WE KNOW) that it is ONE THING to disagree with opponents across the isle and work like *ell to get them defeated in a fair election. IT IS ANOTHER thing to try and STEAL that election and destroy AMERICA.
INSTEAD OF THINKING OF IT AS 'fetishizing" them, look at it as SUPPORTING PEOPLE IN RECOVERY from tRumpITIS.
Recognizing that people are thinking clearly even if we don't agree with their general platform, that they have decided that rule of law is more important than winning at all costs is NOT lauding them as all powerful entities. It's simply what HAS to be done to see that more of them aren't FIGHTING as much TO GET ON OUR SIDE as they will NEED that energy to FIGHT AGAINST THEIR OWN PARTY.
THE THREAT OF ANOTHER CIVIL WAR IS REAL and THESE MILITIAS live in neighborhoods EVERYWHERE.
WE NEED EVERY SINGLE ALLY WE CAN GET. PERIOD.
brush
(53,469 posts)Last edited Sat Oct 15, 2022, 02:24 PM - Edit history (1)
the current iteration of the republican party work to maintain their minority through the Senate filibuster and the Electoral College, anachronisms botn, and they've also lost the popular vote in seven of the last eight presidential elections.
But not if you listen to their stolen election lies.
TigressDem
(5,121 posts)IF we can get people like the one posted in the OP, The Lincoln Party, Liz Cheney on board, then AT LEAST we show common agreement that THE RULE OF LAW is NOT UP FOR DEBATE.
I am not saying we need to go all "Fan Boy or Fan Girl" about it, BUT let us BE honest.
IF THEY WILL SPEAK THE TRUTH AND STAND BESIDE US AGAINST THE GREATEST THREAT TO DEMOCRACY SINCE WWII, then we will accept their support and admire their courage as they face WITH US the organized chaos set upon us by the OLIGARCHY to destroy America from within.
BECAUSE IF ENOUGH OF THEM STAND WITH US, the OLIGARCHY FAILS.
THE upper 1% RICH may have most of the money, BUT THEY ARE A PITIFUL MINORITY compared to the other 99%.
SO THEY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO RULE THE REST in America, that is simply the definition of WRONG.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)A people divided have been unable to stop the depraved extremists who've taken over the Republican Party.
When the mainstream left and right can unite against common threats, as we once could, we will stand again. It's the only way we can save our democracy.
Btw, with years of intense demonization, it was so nice to read this admission from a conservative: "The Democratic Party may not always get policies right, but it works to better the lives of all Americans" Yes, we do.
WarGamer
(12,103 posts)The neocon wing of the Party is dead and gone.
The GOP voters never really LIKED Romney, Shrub, McCain or Dole... they voted for them because it was the only choice.
Now that the rock has been overturned... it'll take a LONG time for a "non-angry" GOP'er to win an election.
Jedi Guy
(3,171 posts)I've thought for a while that the "normal" (for want of a better term) Republicans would gravitate away from the current iteration of the GOP. Some, like the #nevertrump folks, jumped ship fairly early. Others watched the mutation of their party with mounting horror and jumped ship at different points along the way. The MAGAts tied their bootlaces to the railing of the Trumptanic long ago and are enjoying the ride since they're "owning the libs" in their version of reality.
What the normies lack is a strong, charismatic figure to rally around, an anti-Trump, if you will. At this point the closest thing they have to this figurehead is Liz Cheney. If and when such a figure emerges, the normies will coalesce around that person and that political body will be something akin to the Republicans of old, a loyal opposition that we can, to some degree, work with while ignoring the MAGAts as best we can.
The upshot is that the conservative vote will be fractured between the two parties, so it's unlikely they'll ever have any real pull in national affairs unless they can set aside their antipathy for each other and ally on particular issues. Ultimately it'll help us politically, but getting there will be a bumpy ride.
WarGamer
(12,103 posts)There's the 2022 GOP and there are like 11 people in the Liz Cheney wing.
Trump didn't MAKE the MAGA movement, he just gave it a name and face.
How could LIz be the front runner of a Party?
Her approval amongst Republicans today is probably... 5%??
Jedi Guy
(3,171 posts)There may be in the future, though, if the fragmentation continues. That's the point I'm making here. The normies may eventually give up on salvaging the GOP and go their own way. Or they may not. I'm speculating.
Either way, it's clear that there is a minority of conservatives who aren't fans of Trump. They may have held their noses and voted for him one or both times out of party loyalty, and that's who this guy is talking to.
This subset of conservatives currently lacks someone to rally around. If that someone appears, they may decide to do their own thing, party-wise. If (or, God willing, when) Trump goes down in flames, that hypothetical person may step forward. We shall see.
WarGamer
(12,103 posts)Maybe DeSantis? Noem?
There's not a Romney or Jeb! to be found on the list.
FakeNoose
(32,344 posts)One of them is already dead, the other one is in his 80's. Chump will be sidelined (hopefully in prison.)
This madness will be over soon.
ShazzieB
(15,952 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,033 posts)The Fascist Oligarch eXtremists propaganda network will also last too long.
We have to fight the radicalized Republican party's war on education. The more educated the citizen, the more likely they vote Democratic.
Democracy wages a never-ending battle with fascism.
TigressDem
(5,121 posts)RACISTS are living in the lizard brain. US vs THEM (amygdala)
If one does not have the ability to switch over to the REST of the brain, and process clearly, then fear, anger, defend, destroy thoughts are all that gets through.
It was literally how initial CLANS formed and began to form societies where ANYONE AT ALL could be trusted outside your blood relations. The very beginning of society before we set down roots and learned to do MORE than survive in the wild.
LIVING LIKE THAT IN A CIVILIZED SOCIETY is like being that child raised by wolves trying to understand complex table settings at a wedding. IT'S GOING TO BE A HARD FAIL.
Maybe if we show them what they will DEVOLVE to if they continue in this fashion, it will help scare them away from giving up on learning honest facts.
Cosmocat
(14,543 posts)Nm
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)on the right -- a VERY serious white Christian nationalist/fascism movement of people who approved of what Hitler was doing, assisted in their subversion by the LW's dysfunctional communist version.
But, the nation's severe problems caused the majority to come together then that put FDR and what became the New Dealers in power for 12 years, followed by Demcratic Truman's Fair Deal, followed by progressive conservative Eisenhower.
Of course the fascists didn't just disappear, but they were dragged along by the majority of voters who chose progressive government solutions over hate and they got distracted by the unprecedented widespread prosperity that resulted.
TigressDem
(5,121 posts)Sarah Churchwell is a professor of American literature and humanities at the University of London, and the author of new book titled Behold, America. Its a timely survey of two of the most loaded phrases in the American lexicon: America First and American dream, and how theyve evolved in opposition to each other.
It was a Republican campaign slogan in the 1880s, which means it appeared much earlier than most people think. But it didnt become a national catchphrase until President Woodrow Wilson used it in 1915. He was using it to try to keep America out of the first World War. But he was kind of doing a tap dance, because he wanted to placate the isolationists, although he was himself an internationalist.
So Wilson was using America First as a way to maneuver his way through a political minefield by saying America would be first to lead the world, and that it should stay neutral so it could pick up the pieces in Europe after the war. It was ostensibly about maintaining neutrality in the name of leadership.
But then the phrase gets taken up in the name of isolationism almost instantly, and it is quickly connected with other ideas that were also on the rise at the time, especially the rise of the Ku Klux Klan. It became linked to anti-immigration movements, and sympathizers of fascism, and was popularized by Charles Lindbergh, the famous American pilot who lead the America First Committee a group of some 800,000 Americans who wanted to keep us out of WWII.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)or respectable, always a rallying cry for the worst among us.
Can understand Wilson's trying to harness and turn the energy to good ends, but no one now could be surprised at his failure. A common national cultural identity for our nation of varied immigrant and native groups supposedly developed in the later 1800s -- those "America first" 1880s, so its worst potentials had already drawn our worst by his time.
TigressDem
(5,121 posts)Because in a case where cabin pressure drops and you need the air mask, you only have seconds to get it in place before you pass out. IF you have it on, you can help others with theirs and they will wake up.
SO in situations where we can put America first... like having the rich pay their fair share in taxes so that we can solve the problem of hunger in America.... then when we turn to other nations to help, we have what we need and more people to do it.
Like not always pointing our fingers at other countries and blaming them, but getting our OWN wannabe dictator prosecuted and put behind bars before we try to fix other countries' issues. I mean yes, help, but be mindful that if we don't keep our own air mask in place we will pass out.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)But that's also the #1 reason we send money etc overseas. We can generally get consistent majorities in congress behind actions both sides see as benefiting us. Expenditures to help others, without a good answer to "what's in it for us" are far harder to get both parties to agree to.
These hypocrites's slogan should be "White Christian America Uber Alles."
barbtries
(28,702 posts)i hope some stubborn republicans are listening.
Demnation
(390 posts)In It to Win It
(8,142 posts)Cha
(295,900 posts)tanyev
(42,358 posts)They dont have to join the Democratic party. They dont have to promise to vote for Democrats forever and ever. But this year, this election, they need to vote for Democrats or not vote at all if they want to help save the country.
DFW
(54,051 posts)When they hear it from us, it's like a fly trying to smash through a window. When they hear it from other Republicans, it's more like a wrecking ball.
ananda
(28,782 posts)ffr
(22,645 posts)Let that sink in, for any who want to know how their GOP neighbors view them (democrats).
WarGamer
(12,103 posts)He can have lunch with Liz Cheney in a few months when she's unemployed.
Samrob
(4,298 posts)GreenWave
(6,492 posts)Cha
(295,900 posts)Good on Christian Vanderbrook writing this.. i Hope he gets More to the polls to VOTE BLUE!
SouthBayDem
(31,961 posts)Cha
(295,900 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 14, 2022, 11:20 PM - Edit history (1)
So Rich Logis it is!
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,760 posts)It would be a better world if more people felt that way and said so.
I don't post much or really spend much time at all on DU these days thanks to countless challenges & traumas that have descended upon my life requiring more energy & time than I have.
But seeing this reminded me of how I always enjoyed your posts, even on the rare occasions I didn't agree with you! I just wanted to say Thanks for bringing joy to my brief check-in to DU.
Cha
(295,900 posts)Dark n Stormy Knight!
You made me feel better, too!
I know what you mean by those challenges.. I have them too but DU is like my Therapy sessions away from personal challenges to Country and World ones.
And, when I want to get away from both I go to Streaming..
Here's to Victory for us and Democracy!
Upthevibe
(7,879 posts)Thanks for the post....
JHB
(37,128 posts)...they need to torpedo it and refloat & repair the wreck later, after all the nasties have fled.
The key is for them to remember that we're not monsters. That Democrats running the show won't turn us into Cuba or Venezuela. But it'll probably turn us into something that resembles the Eisenhower administration (Oh, what a nightmare!) more than they'd like. They can't live with that?
FakeNoose
(32,344 posts)It was never communism, and it's not really socialism. But Repukes can't see that. Most of the Repukes today are so far into their lizard brains that civil discussion isn't even possible anymore.
betsuni
(25,126 posts)regardless of who they voted for, cooperation in stabilizing the government and the country. That message is reaching out to everybody. He says former Republican voters won't be reached by talk of policy, an alliance is possible even with differences in policy and ideology.
This makes some people nervous because of the belief it's not really possible to be a former Republican. Not possible to be wrong, they're evil and always will be and it's an elaborate ruse to take over the Democratic Party. As if the party is so weak and "milquetoast" and spineless that it is easily pulled this way and that way. The "too big of a tent" people are wrong. There'll be no takeover either by Republicans or socialists. Purity tests are a waste of time. Use whoever you can to reach your goals, in this case democracy and the lives of Americans.
Hassler
(3,321 posts)Numbers. I'm hope polls are wrong suggesting under 40's are for sitting out 2022.
pansypoo53219
(20,906 posts)Heather MC
(8,084 posts)VOTE!
msfiddlestix
(7,265 posts)He voted for both and now regrets it. ok. cool. good on him. but what was the thing making it apparent those votes were so wrong on so many levels? Why wasn't it obvious in 2015?
I'll never understand it.
czarjak
(11,191 posts)RussBLib
(8,984 posts)I know, dream on, but there are some out there. I think many are still too scared by T****'s thugs.
Dios Mio
(429 posts)Late.