Is "Southernification" of rural America happening?

[Buckeye_Democrat]

In general around the entire country, I mean?

I've been wondering for many months if most of my coworkers were immigrants from the South, based on how they talked, so I finally decided to ask the Southern-sounding people this week where they grew up as children.

To my surprise, all of them (except one from TN) stated they were born and raised in Ohio (not too far from our workplace)! And they still live there, always small RURAL towns. Some of them even said that their ancestors were farmers in Ohio for over a couple hundred years!

Yet I'm old enough to recall when people from those small towns did NOT talk like Southerners! On a related note, I also remember when I'd NEVER see a Confederate flag around here, but now I expect to see them if I drive on a nearby rural road.

So are these local rural people TRYING to talk like Southerners now?!

Before posting this topic on DU, I did a Google search and found someone else likewise pondering the "Southernification of Rural America":
https://modelcitizen.substack.com/p/the-density-divide-and-the-southernification

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. Are you talking about an accent, or what they're saying, or what?

[Buckeye_Democrat]

2. Accents. nt

[luvs2sing]

3. My relatives are from southeastern Ohio..

via Virginia and West Virginia, in the 1800s. I’ve always had a bit of a southern drawl, as have most of my relatives, and we’ve been in central Ohio for years. I never thought I had an accent, but my ex-FIL, who was from upstate New York, asked if I was from Tennessee.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

4. Maybe I just didn't notice accents from those...

... nearby rural towns in the past?

It's possible that I'm just more vigilant about it now, after the Trump nightmare.

I don't think it's just my perceptions that have changed, though.

[luvs2sing]

5. Very possible, I think.

I worked hard at getting rid of my accent after FIL’s comment comment, but it still pops out occasionally.

[Samrob]

6. Well in my suburb outside of DC, in Montgomery County MD, the "snowbirds" have decided to stay here

even for the winter. And many of their extended families have moved here permanently, fleeing the "nonexistent" climate change they poo pooed for so long. Quite a few are moving here on the FEMA dime and seem to be the only ones who can afford the outrageous costs of all those new townhomes and condos going up around here. On the other hand, many retirees I know have moved south because of cheaper cost of living, and taxes. Those I know going south will be voting blue. Those I know moving nortj will be red voters. oh, well...

[albacore]

7. If you listen to radio in rural areas, it's ALL country and western music....

...and rightwing screamers, of course.
How Southwest Washington state became somehow Southern, I have NO idea.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

9. That was a hypothesis mentioned in the article...

... that I found too. Maybe just in the comments? Not sure without looking at it again.

[Celerity]

28. perfect

rightwing screamers

[llmart]

8. I was born and raised in a rural town in NE Ohio.

At that time, most that lived there didn't have accents. But I do remember that there were people who came from W. Virginia for the jobs, and they did have accents. I have no idea what it's like now because I haven't been back for many years. We always felt like there were two distinct Ohios - the NE part and the Southern part - and they were very different even back then.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

13. I live a few miles north of Dayton.

I heard strong Southern accents in rural parts of Ohio located south of Dayton, many years ago, when I went fishing at a place called Paint Creek Lake.

And many Dayton residents were indeed Southern immigrants, whom I worked alongside in the past at various factories.

I just don't remember people from farms located north of Dayton speaking with Southern accents in the past. I certainly notice it now, though!

[bucolic_frolic]

10. Well

Glenn Kirschner, New Jersey born, says "y'all" and so does a guy I know from Chicago, but it sounds real strange when he says "Whater, y'all?" (Whater is Chicago for water.)

[Sky Jewels]

11. I've noticed that too. It's weird, IMO.

And that's all I'll say about it lest I get in into a flame war.

[Elessar Zappa]

12. I live in Southwest New Mexico.

White people from the tiny villages have always had a kind of “country” accent. I wouldn’t call it Southern though.

[Genki Hikari]

14. I can't speak to the accents

But rural America has always exhibited a shared pathology, whether in the north or south: Racism, misogyny, hyper-religiosity, nativism, contempt for education and high culture, fear of nonconformity--all the same.

Remember: the KKK was popular in several Northern states back in the early 1900s.

The only difference between them seems to be that the south traditionally had more rural than urban areas in comparison to the north, so they seemed more flagrant about their twisted world view than the north.

Do a rural-rural and urban-urban comparison between various state populations, and the geographical differences start narrowing and even evaporating. I'd bet that the average Atlanta resident is far more liberal than the average Hornell, NY resident.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

22. I think that I'm not just now perceiving...

... a Southern-sounding accent that always existed in those areas, and I also suspect that they're trying to sound more Southern because they now IDENTIFY themselves as allies of the stereotypical Southern voter.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. Southern White Vernacular English and Rural White Southern English have been moving

into the Midland accent for quite some time.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

21. I wonder why?

I was so surprised this week, after I finally decided to just ask those people where they grew up.

I never bothered to mention that I assumed they were Southern immigrants.

[maxsolomon]

16. I grew up in Cincy proper.

I always thought the denizens of Ohio & Indiana's rural areas had a somewhat "country" accent, but it wasn't "southern" per se.

Now, out on the West Coast, I'm told I have a southern accent!

[Buckeye_Democrat]

18. I heard more of a "Southern" accent near Cincy...

... in years past, but not so much from the rural areas north of Dayton. Yet now I do, at least among my current coworkers who drive about 30 to 40 minutes to my workplace. (Which seems crazy to me since their jobs don't even pay them very well. Lots of them waste fuel driving pickup trucks too!)

[unc70]

17. Some years ago, NC got influx from Ohio

Influx from much of that general area 10 to 20 years ago. Many of these people were retirees. The politics and demographics changed in various ways. Many of these newcomers were conservative Catholics, staunch opponents of gays, of abortion, etc. Reliable Repub voters. This influx helped tilt NC even more towards the GOP candidates. This influx from the North made NC more conservative and whiter than it had been before.

More recently, we have been overwhelmed with younger people from everywhere. I suspect this will eliminate most of the "Ohio" effect.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

19. Ohio has become MUCH more red...

... in that interim, so that influx to NC certainly didn't help matters here.

Ohio was more liberal than North Carolina in the past! A purple state while NC was reliably red.

I was thrilled, and surprised, when Obama won NC in 2008 too. (Then losing NC in 2012, whereas he still won OH.)

[llmart]

20. I moved from NE Ohio...

to NC in the '80s. We were young, not retireees, and liberal Democrats. I took a lot of heat for having a Harvey Gantt bumper sticker on my car. I was naive about how I would be perceived being from the North. I thought all the chatter I heard from others about how "friendly" Southerners weren't really so friendly to Yankees, especially liberal Yankees.

[doc03]

23. I live in a county in eastern Ohio. I-70 passes through the middle of Ohio

and my county. If you go just a few miles south of I-70 people have a southern accent.
The northern part of my county is more Pittsburgh-ese, and the southern part sounds more West Virginia.
Up farther north near Lake Eire they have what I call a Cleveland accent. I lived in Arlington VA a couple years
my friends down there said I had Pennsylvania talk. I remember there were cross burnings by the KKK 50 years ago
I wouldn't doubt there are some yet in Ohio.

[Effete Snob]

24. You're talking about white people's accents?

[Buckeye_Democrat]

25. Yes.

I would've sworn those white coworkers were recent immigrants from the South, or they were from one of the areas within Dayton where a disproportionate number of families had recent Southern roots (moving to the Dayton area to seek work during and shortly after WW2). "East Dayton" is an example of such an area.

But not the long-time farming families from north of Dayton! I don't remember them speaking with Southern accents in the past. Most of them are descendants of German immigrants who moved to Ohio in the early 1800's!

Edit: I used to work in "West Dayton", which is mostly inhabited by African Americans, and I think several of them still retain some deep South roots in how they talk too. When I first worked there, I was perplexed why everyone was saying Mister and Miss with the FIRST NAMES. It reminded me of Gone With The Wind, with "Miss Scarlett." I later heard several of my black coworkers discussing where their families used to live, and it was overwhelmingly either Alabama or Mississippi. Then I finally realized they were still using the name titles as if they still lived there!

[Sympthsical]

26. It's been like that for my entire life

My family spent a lot of time in rural Illinois around farms, horse culture, 4H, that sort of thing (my father had a long-held dream to live in the country).

They always spoke with a bit of a twang and utilized different turns of phrase, maybe felt a little more evangelical. I'm not sure if I'd describe it as Southern as much as kind of Texan. But definitely different from a Chicago that was a mere 60-90 minutes to the north. In California, if I start traveling too far north of the Bay Area, you start hearing it. Hell, I hear it from the farmers who are local to my area. Not the Napa types with their vineyards, but the vegetable farmers and livestock types.

I honestly think it comes down to shared culture over time. Country music is a touchstone, the types of television shows watched, radio programs listened to, the kinds of churches attended. People at a rodeo sound crazy Southern no matter where you go. I remember ending up at a rodeo north of Phoenix one time (no idea how), and you might as well have been bouncing around Wyoming.

It might be matter of culture becoming more easily spread over time so the rural commonalities reach a common denominator. Go into any subculture, and you quickly realize that the people all kind of sound the same even if they came from very different places. Like why do people really immersed in marijuana culture all kind of sound the same? I can peg someone who probably had a poster of a pot leaf at some point in their life a mile away.

Similar dynamics at work, I reckon.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

27. I think that's it!

They identify with a particular culture, and then they imitate it.

You provided some good examples too!

[Sympthsical]

29. Gay culture is another way to really observe how it works

Some gay men seem like they've always had that lilt/lisp/more feminine tone and animated, expressive way of speaking. I had a friend in high school who sounded very stereotypical in that way from childhood. But then there are others who don't grow up sounding that way at all. However, once they come out, start consuming media culture, going to the bars, socializing with mainly other gay men etc., they start sounding like they're auditioning for Drag Race.

Gurrrrrl, slay qween, werk, yaaaaasss, okurrrrr!

That way of speaking can get really absorbed from the surrounding subculture and being around other gay men who speak that way.

It's almost a kind of code switching, depending where you are. I don't talk that way. I have a very flat Midwestern/Chicagoan way of speaking. But if I'm around my gay friends a lot, I will start doing things like heavily rolling my eyes and saying things like, "Oh, honey . . ." It's a mixture of imitation because you find it amusing blended with using that way of speaking as a form of fitting into the group. You're kind of signalling that you belong in the space.

It can also be characteristic of personal development. I know once I came out, I just kind of stopped caring about trying to project any particular image of masculinity/femininity. I just talk in ways I find amusing, so I pick up stuff from everywhere. I sound like I'm a walking, talking voice actor half the time in private settings. (Also, first generation Filipino partner and his Tagalog-speaking family are killing my grammar. I find myself saying things like "more betterer" unironically over time).

But stick me in, say, a corporate setting at work or at school, and we're back to flat Midwesterner.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

33. I'm sure that's what they're doing.

After believing right-wing propaganda, with the basic message that the Federal government is bad and unregulated business is good, they allied themselves with Southerners and their "states' rights" (anti-Fed) creed. As time passed, they tried to talk like Southerners too.

I didn't know that about the gay community! I just assumed that some gay men spoke more effeminate while others spoke more masculine.

I noticed some of my past black coworkers talked like Neil Degrasse Tyson with me, but later sounded like male versions of Leslie Jones when talking to the other black coworkers. I mostly mentioned her name to share this old SNL skit:

Anyway, thanks a lot for your feedback!

[Sympthsical]

36. It's called "code-switching"

There are probably some YouTube videos about it. It's an incredibly interesting topic that happens all around diverse ethnic, cultural, and multilingual societies. America is ripe with it.

There was a contestant on Drag Race (since I mentioned it) who was an immigrant from Vietnam when he was 13. He learned American English from watching a lot of TV, particularly LGBT media. So his American accent sounded just very stereotypical young gay man. He had no real Vietnamese accent at all.

However, during one segment where he was arguing with his mom, his English sounded heavily, heavily accented with Vietnamese. Well, some other contestant got a burr up his butt and accused him of faking his Vietnamese accent for drama and the cameras. People were furious and had to explain code-switching to him (and other viewers).

I do the same thing. Flat accent while living in California. Put me around my family for about ten seconds, and I sound like my Chicagoan father. It's like a walking talking Da Bears sketch from SNL.

[Jedi Guy]

30. Accents are funny things in how they creep in without being obvious at first.

I wasn't born on the Mississippi Gulf Coast but I grew up there. My folks are from the Midwest (Missouri and Illinois) so I learned the flat Midwest accent when I learned to talk. My parents were horrified when I started saying things like "y'all" and "finna" (as in, I'm finna go over to Timmy's house). I picked it up from my friends and classmates, of course, because I wanted to fit in. My folks pushed back hard on it, not wanting me to go through life sounding like a hick from the boonies.

Lo these many years later, I can turn the accent on and off at will. If I'm gaming with my best friend from high school the accent comes roaring back at full force and I won't even be aware of it, though. Same if I'm drunk. But otherwise it can be like flicking a switch.

Going from my experience, seems like northern rural areas are trying to fit in to a shared culture, which lines up with the societal divides we're seeing now. Instead of North vs. South the line is urban vs. rural. That's how the battle lines have been drawn and the culture is adjusting accordingly.

[Scottie Mom]

31. I was born in NE Ohio and lived there until I was 14 years old -- 60 years ago my family moved to CA

We lived in the "city" -- very small town -- but surrounded by rural farmlands. I do not recall anyone with a Southern accent. Lots of Eastern European accents -- Italian, Hungarian and Romanian -- but I cannot think of one person back in the early to mid 1960s who spoke with a drawl.

[Deep State Witch]

32. It's been happening

Driving through rural Pennsylvania is like driving through Alabama.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

35. Someone on DU once wrote that Ohio was...

... "Alabama North" now, and I have to say it indeed seems that way in more ways than one anymore.

[Hortensis]

34. I've read that after the conservative Southern Democrats

moved to the Republican Party their culture became dominant within the party. We certainly see that in social and religious issues.