I was shocked and may have been a bit rude

[ripcord]

One woman in line in front of me at the store was complaining to her friend about her Jewish neighbor, it was a full antisemitic rant which ended with her wishing there were still restricted neighborhoods. I finally told her I too wished there were restricted neighborhoods because people like her need to be kept behind walls.

[hlthe2b]

1. My sister and I were talking about the very horrific turns society has taken

(along, of course, politics and the RW's move toward fascism).

Both of us are wondering how long it will take to see a turn in (what we hope to be) a cycle toward a more tolerant and "normal" America, rather than the worst of recent many decades. Will we live long enough to see it? What a sad thought...

[MerryHolidays]

56. It's a very good question

I am getting to the point where I think it might be something catastrophic (like a war) to make a real change.

You have politicians who don't care anymore about racial tolerance, women's rights, civil rights etc. You have a MSM that is not critical at any level (except for a few), and you have social media where lies and hate can be spread to millions/billions in a second.

I am usually an optimist, but I am very concerned that this country has gone too far to work its own way out of this mess.

[Whiskeytide]

65. Those politicians you speak of NEVER really cared ...

… about racial tolerance, women's rights, civil rights etc.

It’s just that they realized over the last 10 years that their base doesn’t care about such things either, and therefore they no longer have to pretend.

[marybourg]

2. Now, they feel comfortable saying aloud

what they previously would have felt embarrassed to. That's exactly what happened in Germany in the 1930's.

[MyOwnPeace]

6. Yeah - we know where THAT came from..............

THANKS, TRUMP!!!!!!!!


(Any chance we can have a new 'smilie' showing someone 'flipping off' someone, like, maybe, IQ45? )

[Samrob]

28. He modeled it for the world evidently. nt

[soldierant]

39. We also know where it went. I don't think any of us wants to go there.

[debm55]

8. So true. Trump gave them the courage to crawl out beneath there rocks and spew their garbage.

[Rebl2]

16. Absolutely!

[calimary]

52. Well, then they have to be CALLED OUT, out loud.

This bad behavior manifests openly because there’s no pushback or challenge or counterpunch. It’s allowed to remain unchecked.

And THAT should stop. Immediately.

[Grokenstein]

3. The good side of society might need to start being "a bit rude"

[paleotn]

4. You weren't rude. You we're honest.

Haters need to be confronted.

[Lonestarblue]

5. Good for you! That got an Amen from me.

[Effete Snob]

7. Holy shit

I probably would have been more than rude.

[Chicago1980]

9. What was her reaction?

I'm curious...

[ripcord]

25. It was amazing how fast I became invisible to them

Once they were confronted they no longer wished to discuss it anymore

[AllaN01Bear]

10. will somone please tell me what they have against the jews ??

they always bring it up and i may challange one some day. also this blameing the jews has always strong with these . i get up tite when i hear that .

[DFW]

15. That, I can tell you in one simple word...........

TRADITION!

(I don't get it, either)

[demigoddess]

22. when I was a kid, in church they said they were against jews because they rejected Jesus!

OMG! the truth is the jews have more information about Jesus in their Torah than Christians have in the Bible.

[TigressDem]

32. Some basis in fact... but not the whole people, just church elders who were crooked.

Jesus Delivered to Pilate
(Mark 15:1–5)

1 When morning came, all the chief priests and elders of the people conspired against Jesus to put Him to death. 2They bound Him, led Him away, and handed Him over to Pilate the governor.

Jesus before Pilate
(Luke 23:1–5; John 18:28–40)

11Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, who questioned Him: “Are You the King of the Jews?”

“You have said so,” Jesus replied.

12And when He was accused by the chief priests and elders, He gave no answer.

13Then Pilate asked Him, “Do You not hear how many charges they are bringing against You?”

14But Jesus gave no answer, not even to a single charge, much to the governor’s amazement.

The Crowd Chooses Barabbas
(Mark 15:6–11; Luke 23:13–25)

15Now it was the governor’s custom at the feast to release to the crowd a prisoner of their choosing. 16At that time they were holding a notorious prisoner named Barabbas.b 17So when the crowd had assembled, Pilate asked them, “Which one do you want me to release to you: Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?” 18For he knew it was out of envy that they had handed Jesus over to him.

19While Pilate was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent him this message: “Have nothing to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered terribly in a dream today because of Him.”

20But the chief priests and elders persuaded the crowds to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus put to death.

21“Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor.

“Barabbas,” they replied.

22“What then should I do with Jesus who is called Christ?” Pilate asked.

They all answered, “Crucify Him!”

23“Why?” asked Pilate. “What evil has He done?”

But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify Him!”

Pilate Washes His Hands
(Mark 15:12–15)

24When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but that instead a riot was breaking out, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,c” he said. “You bear the responsibility.”

25All the people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!”

26So Pilate released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged, and handed Him over to be crucified.

[stopdiggin]

53. entirely unlikely that any of this actually

ever took place. The narrative reads like a (rather poor) screenplay.

he took water and washed his hands before the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,c” he said. “You bear the responsibility.”
25All the people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!”

Right! Like that happened.
In short - not history.
And, in the same breath - a entirely facile (and hardly tenable) 'explanation' for the hatred and persecution of the Jews.

I know this is what, "they say." But it needs to be recognized that it just doesn't wash.

[TigressDem]

66. I did not say it is a "valid" reason. There is NO valid reason to hate an entire people.

But this is the story that generated the ancient meme that blames the Jews for the death of Jesus.

ALTHOUGH I could imagine a Roman Emperor not wanting to do the dirty work of the Jewish leaders and offering to release someone who hadn't really committed any crime and literally "washing his hands of it" as a show.

They say there were plants in the audience that shouted out that phrase. Look how easy it has been riling up MAGA people these days. People are people. Could it be that a crowd gathered to watch people be condemned to die might an excitable lot?

MY faith doesn't need it to be exactly true, but it is interesting to someone who studied cultural anthropology and was raised in the church. Even our myths say something about US.

[stopdiggin]

71. I probably dropped the ball

in articulating my main point - in that that I think the "Jews killed Jesus" twaddle is (and always has been) a cover - for a political and power struggle engineered by the Church. I.e. - the animus has always been about group dynamic struggles, legitimacy, power and access -and yes, oftentimes wealth, and the ability to seize something belonging to the unworthy, and unsanctioned. It's classic 'us and them' stuff.

And, frankly, I doubt very much that Church leaders (who are the only ones that counted in the animus/propaganda department, being as the vast majority of the population was totally illiterate and had no inkling what was in the 'good book' beyond what they were told)- spent a whole lot of time wringing their hands over what the Jews did to 'poor Jesus.' They were far too busy fattening their own purse, and building an empire.

So, to put it in a nutshell - I think the "Jews killed Jesus" palaver stands very much in the place of a modern day meme - being spoon fed to the gullible and ignorant - to serve an always underlying, and mostly dishonest, purpose. Always and ever a tool - and never a legitimate core belief.

And - all of this with a measure of respect for you, and your chosen beliefs. Yes, our social constructs do say much about us. And my faith (and on a lot of days it is a tested one) is that we continue to improve and advance on these.
------- ---- ------------

[TigressDem]

72. Funny thing is I have the best convos with Atheists, Pagans et al about Christianity

As long as I am open minded and not trying to convert anyone, I get to learn about things I didn't know and have even been educated about the Church itself... and been forced to dig and research as well.

My core belief is that the example set by the actions of Christ, even if they are mythical, are ideals to aspire to in the way we treat each other, take care of our own issues and cut others some slack for theirs.

His words make sense to me and inspire me.

The other claptrap that people put up around that doesn't seem genuine to me if it conflicts with the words or deeds of Christ.

AND a lot of other faiths move in the same patterns, treat others well, take care of yourself and your loved ones, don't sweat the small stuff, make changes when you need to be a better person.

Any moral based philosophy gets you into that same zone.

The world is a better place when people behave in a civilized fashion.

For better or worse, the Church and various forms of belief in something more than our travel from dust to dust have given people reason to work together. When humans were barely civilized (and in some places we see signs of devolving - MTG, Orange MOT) the Church held a kinder authority than some. And at times the Church went off the rails.

Power corrupts and when an institution is huge, it can become corrupt.

[demigoddess]

73. but why hate jews when it was God who really planned Jesus's death. That is what I

was taught. Jews just got the blame. stupid human blame.

[TigressDem]

36. AND the Church also teaches that WE as Christians bear the brunt of the blame as well.

Jesus chose to allow himself to be put in this position to teach mankind about forgiveness and someone laying their life down so that others could choose to transform their life and give up the ways of selfishness and arrogance and turn toward humility and harmony.

The Church teaches that since this was done FOR US then WE ARE PART of that crowd symbolically and need to have understanding and compassion for people who were caught up in their time and listening to their leaders who were cruel and manipulative.

AND the Disciples were Jewish. Jesus was Jewish. Many beautiful wonderful Jewish people in this world are simply being painted with blood from an archeological dig and it makes no sense at all.

[Jedi Guy]

54. I've never really understood blaming the Jews at large for the death of Jesus.

First off, Christians believe that the crucifixion was the whole point that Jesus became human. That was the plan all along. The Jews were patsies, if anything, since someone had to kill Jesus in order for the resurrection to happen.

More importantly, according to the Gospel of Luke, Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" while literally hanging on the cross. Seems a bit peculiar for Christians to hate on the Jews when Jesus himself forgave them and asked for forgiveness on their behalf.

Then again, the "Jews killed Jesus" thing was largely used to justify pogroms against Jewish folks throughout history with the aim of taking their stuff, ostracizing them, and/or killing them. It was and is a convenient excuse to justify the hatred and persecution more than anything else since it doesn't make a bit of sense.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

60. Hating on jews

As if they control finance and the world
Creates a scapegoat to distract people and give them a target to hate away from the billionairs funding the anti-semitism while they abuse and rob the populace.

Thats where I think the roots of anti-semitism might lead.

I think there are a lot of oligarchs/ sociopaths funding and causing so much shit in populations its disgusting

[TigressDem]

68. Hatred is NOT a family value worth passing on to your children. (Universal You, not personal)

Blaming OTHERS instead of doing something about your own life and helping others if you can is simply the lazy way to avoid having to feel bad when your life is shit because you don't have any desire to do the work to make it better.

Oligarchs need the rest of US to be distracted while they rob the country blind.

BECAUSE IF THE 99% WORK TOGETHER, they are screwed. WE ARE THE MAJORITY, the filthy rich are the minority. They only have control because the rest of US are so busy trying to make ends meet and/or fighting with each other over stupid stuff OR protesting actual insanity at large that we aren't looking at their little parlor tricks.

These next two elections will decide if Democracy lives or dies. 2022 and 2024.

[TigressDem]

67. Because it was the Pharisees (leaders of the Jewish church) that turned him over to Pilate.

STILL NOT A REASON to hate an entire people.

AND it has been said in more than one part of the Bible, "Judge not lest ye be judged" and/or "Judgement is MINE saith the Lord."

Jesus gave the Pharisees a bit of trouble. He called them out on their hypocrisy many times. The only one who was of a mind to believe in Jesus and follow him was Nicodemis (sp) who donated the tomb Jesus was laid to rest in after the crucifixion.

He threw money changers out of the temple because they were cheating people in their exchange rates "In God's House or In My Father's House."

Any rate, he ruffled feathers but he wasn't the Che Guevara that Judas had hoped for so he turned him over.

People who want to hate will use any excuse.

IN MY MIND that goes COMPLETELY against the teachings of Christ, who as you said, asked God to forgive them even as they brought his death into being.

CHRISTIANS and HATE are like a breathable atmosphere and the vacuum of space. They REALLY don't inhabit the same space so if a person lives for HATE, I simply can't see how they call themselves Christian.

[czarjak]

64. Blacks. Jews. Catholics. Sworn KKK enemies.

[TigressDem]

69. IF they saw that hating on each other only EMPOWERS the KKK it might change some.

Yeah, if we could get the propaganda to stop flowing like a tsunami on a daily basis, more would listen to the truth.

Pope Francis is a definite improvement over the past two.

Benedict was a former Youth for Hitler member.

John Paul was a staunch conservative who tried to undo most of the Vatican II reforms that brought the Church forward from the dark ages.

I don't get it when I see blacks for tRump. It blows my mind.

My BFF is engaged to a Jewish man and he listens to a variety of stations because he wants to suss out the truth, but he believes if most of them are saying the same thing, it must be true. SIGH.

I pick my battles. He is good to her and it's just his opinions that are horrible.

But the way tRump and MAGA treat Jewish people, I do not know how they can EVER even think of voting for him.

[jmowreader]

26. Supposedly the Jews killed Jesus

I’m sure the Romans will be happy to know they’re Jewish.

[TigressDem]

33. I don't blame Jews in general, simply those that tied him up and put him in line to be crucified.

I don't hate all gun owners either, just those that go and shoot people.

I don't hate anyone who isn't doing horrible things to others and thinking they can get away with it.

NO ONE PERSON or GROUP of people makes an entire race bad. It simply isn't statistically possible.

[barbtries]

11. rude?

you were damn nice.

[Phoenix61]

13. You were much more polite than I would have been.

I’m liberal as hell but also quite capable of going from nice to super bitch in 10 seconds flat.

[barbtries]

51. i know you're talking to the OP,

because I'm right on your page. I think it was the 2008 election, a woman came up and asked me to take some of her republican literature. I acted as if she had offered me the hissing end of a cobra, and loudly said, "Republican? No way, " and as I walked into the building added, "I don't see how anyone can vote for a republican at this point."

I was truly naive then...

[Evolve Dammit]

12. You were fine. They only understand blunt language. That's how we got here. Thanks Orange Boy. nt

[lpbk2713]

14. They would probably be offended beyond words ...

if someone was to tell them to fuck off.

People like that are irony challenged.

[Rebl2]

17. Good for you

[relayerbob]

18. Good for you

She needs to understand that this shit is NOT acceptable. Period. Ever.

[Hekate]

19. Kudos to you

[Meowmee]

20. And we know why they feel more comfortable openly saying these kind of things now

But I have been hearing things like this my whole life as has my family, sometimes they are directed at me, if people know my background and sometimes thinking that I will agree with them because they don’t realize it. I also remember a lawyer I dated years ago telling me that he was waiting to go into a meeting where there were political officials, lawyers and a judge- they were talking about various things and about him as well, they called him “the Jew”. I have had these experiences, as has my family, in multiple countries, it’s not just here.

Thank you for speaking up. I am curious to know what her reaction was also.

[Joinfortmill]

21. Lol. Awesome

[iluvtennis]

23. Perfect comeback. n/t

[MLAA]

24. Good, you spoke up! Way to go!

[Talitha]

27. Good for you! Maybe she'll crawl back behind the woodwork.

[Samrob]

29. Blacks have been red-lined forever and by all ethnic groups. Banks/lenders have an unwritten code.

The only way victims can stop the red-lining is to have their own financing or cash.

[spanone]

30. K6R

[TigressDem]

31. ooooo snap. I am stealing that line for the next Karen who goes off like that!! nt

[Kaleva]

34. Rec'd

[JudyM]

35. That was a perfect response.

People need to get called out on this crap or they will continue to become more emboldened.

Thank you.

[wnylib]

47. THIS!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

37. Oh, my.

A couple of thoughts. First is that I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico. The entire state is very Hispanic and Native American, which I love, Anglo that I am. One thing that I love about living here is the respect given to older people, especially to older women. I NEVER get a traffic ticket, even when I really deserve one, because to the cop who stops me I look like Mom or Grandma (even though I'm not remotely Hispanic) and they are not about to ticket Mom or Grandma. I've also learned not to chat up young people in the grocery store check-out line ahead of me, because they will then invariably insist I go ahead of them, which is not what I intended. Although, sometimes, I will invoke elder privilege and ask to go ahead. But not very often, I promise.

The other thought is about my ex husband. He's Jewish, but simply doesn't look, act, or sound "Jewish". All of his life he's found it very interesting to be able to essentially pass, and listen in to what others are saying. He also knows how to let other Jews know he is one of them, and I saw that in action more than once. Oh, and on our honeymoon, we went to Poland, which is where all of his grandparents were from. While we were there, local Jews would suddenly show up, and start talking to him in English. They could always tell he was one of them. Me? I was invisible to them. It was an amazing and wonderful glimpse into another world.

[KentuckyWoman]

40. I have absolutely no clue what Jewish looks, acts, or sounds like.

I am in my 80's and cannot tell you by looking if someone is of a certain religion. I realize it's considered an ethnicity also but unless someone is wearing that orthodox outfit, I could not tell you anything.

I don't mean to be hardheaded or rude ... Maybe I don't pay enough attention.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

41. No, you are not being hardheaded or rude. Not paying enough attention may be correct.

We are all familiar with the saying, "It takes one to know one." I've seen that played out many times.

Honestly, before I met my husband, now my ex, I'd known a reasonable share of Jewish people, but hadn't paid much attention. Once I connected to him, I learned a lot more. More to the point, it was seeing the world of being Jewish through his eyes that was so enlightening.

I do not want to suggest you should also see "Jewish". Your experience is simply different, and that's just fine. We all have different experiences of life. Mine happened to include a Jewish husband who helped me see his world. Your experiences have shown you different things.

[wnylib]

50. As a woman in her 70s, I get

the same great treatment whenever I go to the Seneca territories in NY. The main street in one city on Seneca land is a busy highway that runs through town. There is a business area where I often cross that street/highway. It is not an intersection so there is no traffic light there. But cars stop to let me cross.

I often have some packages with me as I cross from one side to the other to finish shopping. Young people offer to carry them for me.

It is such a different experience than outside of Seneca land, where cars ignore me and teens consider old people to be potential prey.

[LisaM]

38. You weren't rude. That person issued a challenge.

You responded. Bullies don't expect that.

[emmacom]

42. could not agree more

So tired of people spouting judgements and false information

[IbogaProject]

43. Hitler rose upon American Money

He was funded by the firm Prescott Bush worked for and helped facilitate the substantial funding they provided. And Hitler was inspired by how America treated our natives, poor and our former slaves.

[dchill]

44. No F words? You weren't rude enough!

"Don't be too nice!"

[wnylib]

49. Sometimes more effective without the F word.

[NorCalBlue]

45. I think we are all called to speak

If you can safely. I think the old fashioned emotion of SHAME has been suppressed in this country. It may take a deeper dive into one person’s soul than another, but it’s there in all of us and personally, I think a little shame is okay in healthy doses. Someone my age can pull off the oldies like, “Shame on you for….” Or “How dare you…”. Sometimes going right to that place is more effective than anger driven retorts.

Very few of us lack the shame button. Trump lacks it.

[wnylib]

48. Absolutely true. We are all called on to

respond similarly in situations like that.

The racists and bigots need to get pushback. Show them that their attitudes are not acceptable, that they ARE fringe, and that they should feel shame.

[ZonkerHarris]

46. nicer than what id have said

[Wild blueberry]

55. Good for you!

We have to say something. If we're silent, they think we agree. Silence is complicity.
Thank you.

[JPPaverage]

57. Nice comeback

What did the individual you spoke to have to say about that?

[I_UndergroundPanther]

58. All it takes

Is one bigoted narcissist or sociopath to fuck up any conversation, relationship, social gathering or organization.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

59. You were not being rude

We need a lot more rudeness directed at bigots.Show them thier beliefs and behaviors are not welcome in society.

[The Jungle 1]

61. Well In am gonna passionately disagree.

What you did is called being an good American.
The problem is that poor little karen does not understand what freedom of religion means!
It is a big deal in this country and she needs to shut her pie hole. Or she can leave.

[StormKing]

62. Fist bump

You spoke truth.

[elleng]

63. Not rude, truthful.

[TigressDem]

70. + 10,000 nt