Christ - frightening - Lethal dose of Fentanyl vs. Heroin

[packman]

[marble falls]

1. Crazy.

[Disaffected]

2. That's bad but:

Try carfentanil. A lethal dose would barely be visible.

Carfentanil: A Dangerous New Factor in the U.S. Opioid Crisis

Carfentanil is a synthetic opioid approximately 10,000 times more potent than morphine and 100 times
more potent than fentanyl. The presence of carfentanil in illicit U.S. drug markets is cause for concern, as
the relative strength of this drug could lead to an increase in overdoses and overdose-related deaths, even
among opioid-tolerant users. The presence of carfentanil poses a significant threat to first responders and
law enforcement personnel who may come in contact with this substance. In any situation where any
fentanyl-related substance, such as carfentanil, might be present, law enforcement should
carefully follow safety protocols to avoid accidental exposure.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edky/file/898991/download

[Amishman]

3. Carfentanyl is evens scarier and is showing up

[GusBob]

6. and that is only one of dozens of synthetic opioid derivatives

all deadly

[Crunchy Frog]

52. Apparently, carfentanyl was used in the "rescue"

of the hostages in the Moscow theater in 2002, and caused the deaths of 170 people. They pumped it in as an aerosol, and people stopped breathing. Didn't inform medical personnel either, so they couldn't effectively treat.

Very dangerous stuff.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

4. And yet we've had multiple threads here on DU that have downplayed the risks of Fentanyl

and have tried to make the clear threat into a "joke" or an example of right-wing paranoia.

Meanwhile, people are dying and ODing at an alarming rate.

At least one DU member has reported the death of a child.

Fentanyl is something we need to take seriously.

[GusBob]

5. I may be wrong but I think

I may be wrong but I think folks here might downplay this problem because of political reasons

the fact is these poisons are manufactured in Mexico and it is smuggled and distributed by illegal ( i can use that word in this case) immigrants. So maybe TFG was right about that to some degree and folks dont want to face facts. They are also smuggling black tar heroin as well

I personally know many people that have OD'd on this Rez and several that have died. One weekend we had 26 EMS calls from a bad batch of fenty

now they hand out Narcan like candy around here

[Just A Box Of Rain]

7. There are good reasons to hand out Narcan--it saves lives if used in time.

My wife is in a local school and did Narcan training last week.

I think you are correct, that we are seeing a reactionary political response from some because the trafficking route involves Mexico (after originating largely in China).

We need to get past narrow partisan parochialism and find ways to deal with this problem.

Lives are at stake.

[GusBob]

26. reading suggestion

Dreamland by Sam Quinones well written and well researched

And it delves into how bipartisanship led to solutions. Drug courts instead of prison in deep red 'law and order' states for example

The whole problem started with Purdue Pharma creating opioid addicts with Oxy, the addicts are now turning to heroin and fenty

[Rhiannon12866]

53. We have drug treatment courts here in New York

They're offered instead of a jail term and the results are quite good for those who stick with it. I've been in AA for a lot of years so have known many who chose drug court. It requires treatment sessions, community service and attendance at meetings. It's not easy, but those I've known have said it was worth it. And over the years, we've seen a lot more who had drug issues rather than just alcohol. Drug use is definitely on the rise.

[Brother Buzz]

16. Clarification: The pills are made in Mexico, but the actual Fentanyl......

is manufactured primarily in China. (reports say India has entered the market, too, and their production is growing.)

[GusBob]

21. Correct

thank you

[Torchlight]

8. I think the jokes were directed at the false narrative

that Fentanyl is being given away consistently to infants as Halloween candy.

Is there in fact, someone posting that Fentanyl should not be taken seriously? If someone on this website was specifically trivializing the risks of Fentanyl on its own merits, I'd really be interested in seeing a link to that particular assertion.

[Elessar Zappa]

9. That's what I was disputing.

Fentanyl is a major problem but I don’t buy the Halloween basket nonsense.

[Treefrog]

10. "Infants" go trick or treating now?

Wow, Kids sure grow up fast these days.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

11. While minimizing the fact that the latest batches of Fentanyl,

the so-called "Rainbow Fentanyl," are made in candy-colors as a way to attract young people.

While they may not be intended as Halloween "treats" (or is it "tricks" ) the cartel's marketing to young people is undeniable.

And young people are dying.

Many of the responses here on DU have trivialized the problem, and that is an understatement.

[Torchlight]

12. Could you direct us to posts you assert are trivializing the consequences of Fentanyl

Again, I'd be very interested in reading posts which trivialize Fentanyl on its own merits.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

13. No. The forum is searchable.

[Torchlight]

14. And assertions are free.

I've always found it good form to follow assertions with that which supports the assertion.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

15. There are board rules and a capricious jury system here.

So, I'll pass. The threads are easily found.

[Jack the Greater]

18. If they were easy to find you would post a link instead of an excuse.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

19. Quite to the contrary.

The threads on Fentanyl are very easily found (Google is your friend).

I'm just not going to call out individual posts given DU's board rules and enforcement mechanism.

I already said the same.

[Jack the Greater]

20. I'm sticking to my version

[Just A Box Of Rain]

22. What a surprise!

Or, try search term "fentanyl."

[Caliman73]

35. Good Choice

No one appears to be making light of the consequences of Fentanyl use and overdose.

Some people, including myself, have disputed the fearmongering that is primarily a right wing phenomena that Fentanyl will be handed out as Halloween Candy. The DEA seized shipments of Fentanyl that were disguised in boxes labelled Sweet Tarts, Nerds, and other bright candy to evade detection at entry points.

There is certainly serious concern that Fentanyl is rainbow colored like Ecstasy has been to appeal to younger people, just like flavored vaping products. We just attended a meeting with our school district about the dangers of Fentanyl.

People are conflating the two...different issues. As if being skeptical of the fake one means you don't care about the other, very real one.

[BlackSkimmer]

50. I saw those threads too.

They're very easy to find.

[Torchlight]

28. Sounds serious.

Good luck.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

30. Goggling "fentanyl" on this website isn't difficult.

Trust me.

You might become better informed. Or don't.

Good luck to you.

[Torchlight]

31. Linking a thread is even less difficult.

And, as it's a discussion thread en toto rather than individual posts being advertised as such, the fear of being singled out by capricious neighbors become wholly irrelevant.

Or don't. Point is, it's the responsibility of an author, not his readers, to support his words.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

32. You could discover the truth on your own in less time.

Or not.

[Torchlight]

33. I tried. I failed. I'm not too clever.

Now that we have established my incompetence at boolean searches, you may be the only one who can find all these posts you assert exist.

[Disaffected]

51. ......

Ah yes, the ol' "do your own research" routine.

[DiamondShark]

56. Doesn't work.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fentanyl&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

I tried to find the posts you were talking about but only this comes up. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

57. Try pasting this in the url bar:

site:https://www.democraticunderground.com fentanyl

You will need the whole line, not just the hyperlink.

[DiamondShark]

58. Umm, no.

I used the DU search. I can't find what you are referring to.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

59. Instead of using the search bar here, try pasting the entire line I posted above into a search.

Here it is again:

site:https://www.democraticunderground.com fentanyl

[DiamondShark]

61. Why should I not use the DU search bar?

It works for everything else.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

62. Because you said it didn't work for you.

I'm attempting to give you an alternative way to search.

[DiamondShark]

63. I can't find the post.

You mention in #11

It doesn't exist.

[DiamondShark]

64. I found this one about Rainbow Fentanyl

Republicans Are Spreading a Bogus "Rainbow Fentanyl" Panic Ahead of the MidtermsThe GOP is ramping
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217171255

Is that the one you mention in Post #11?

[Just A Box Of Rain]

65. No, that one stayed on the rails.

[DiamondShark]

66. Oh well I tried.

Still can't find the thread mentioned in Post #11.

[Texasgal]

67. You need star membership.

FYI.

[DiamondShark]

68. LMAO is that why?

It expired in August, I was busy with work and didn't renew.

But it doesn't explain why Post #11 eludes to a discussion, but can't link it.

[Texasgal]

69. From what I understand

you have to have a star membership to search DU. I think you can search google though. I may be wrong, but I think this may be issue.

[DiamondShark]

70. Hmm, didn't work.

Star membership shows the same search from before.

I can't find the posts they are speaking about in Post#11.
It would be nice if they linked the offending discussion, but I digress.

[GusBob]

29. Im sorry but the poster is correct

Folks were down-playing the risks of rainbow fenty pills as political scare mongering. witnessed it here myself

Completely not understanding that pill presses are the latest tool in the criminal's war chest to push drugs on the American public, Halloween or not

[Torchlight]

34. I'm not refuting thse posts exist.

But I was in quite a few of the discussion threads, and read them thoroughly. I didn't see any posts trivializing Fentanyl in and of itself. Could you point them out for me?

[Johnny2X2X]

36. It is deniable

They're not being colored to attract young people, they're being colored to disguise them for smuggling. Do people really think cartels give 2 hoots about attracting children to fentanyl? And how young would you have to be to be attracted to a drug because it's colored pretty? 6? 7? Do people think teenagers buy Rainbow Bright gear?

People smuggle drugs made to look like baby formula powder, do people think they're marketing to babies because of that?

[Just A Box Of Rain]

39. I don't think you are reading the situation clearly.

Fentanyl is killing young people including many young people in the public schools.

We need to deal with the reality of the situation.

[Johnny2X2X]

41. And that has zero to do with how Fentanyl is being smuggled into the country

Whether it's being painted to look like candy, colored like sidewalk chalk, or smuggled in baby formula cans. Pretending it's being marketed to young people because of how it's being smuggled is doing the opposite of dealing with the reality of the situation, it's a distraction from the reality.

We need smarter drug policy, and spreading some urban myth that it's being handed out as Halloween candy is not helping. Pretending kids are so shallow that colored fentanyl for smuggling would make them more likely to use is inane and denies looking at the real problem, our failed war on drugs. Drug education for young people helps, pretending drug dealers are going to give away their product to children for free to "get them hooked" is just fear mongering and not helpful. Saying it's being colored to make it more marketable to children is just not accurate.

It's been the same with the drug war from the start, US policy has always seemed to exaggerate and err on the side of all drugs are evil killers. Didn't work with weed, doesn't work with cocaine, and it won't work with heroin and fentanyl. Only the truth works.

[sir pball]

55. They are not being marketed to children.

JFC, do you actually believe that? That the cartels are trying to hook in children? Anyone who's young enough to be appealed to by bright colors is, by definition, not capable of being a valuable customer. What the hell are they gonna do, ask Mommy and Daddy to double their allowance so they can buy more of the candy that makes them feel funny?

Yes, rainbow pills are certainly a thing, but they're meant to differentiate suppliers and dealers - "Steve has those yellow pills, they're way better", not some 80s "Yo kid, you wanna FLY? First taste of the rainbow is free!" John Oliver and Trevor Noah have both done very good pieces smashing this moral panic, I'll let you do your own research.

[Mariana]

37. That's exactly what happened.

No one has said Fentanyl should not be taken seriously. That is a lie.

[yardwork]

23. That doesn't accurately represent what I've seen here.

I haven't seen any posts downplaying the danger of fentanyl and other opioids. In particular, many of us have noted the dangers of illicit drugs being accidentally, negligently contaminated with fentanyl and other synthetic opioids, resulting in sudden, unexpected fatal overdoses. Opioid addiction is no joke and I would expect any such post to be hidden.

I have seen (and made) posts cautioning people not to believe the Republican-created propaganda that "Mexican illegal immigrants are being paid by Biden to come across the border and hand out rainbow fentanyl to kill trick or treating children." That kind of propaganda - being spread by Boebert and others - is designed to scare people into voting for Republicans.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

24. The "hilarity" has gone way beyond debunking Boebert's nonsense.

[yardwork]

25. I must have missed those posts. I hope you alerted on them.

[Mariana]

38. You missed them because they didn't exist.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

40. Wrong.

They exist and are easily found.

[Torchlight]

42. There's gold in them that hills!

[Just A Box Of Rain]

44. Continue to sneer and deny reality.

That's an ongoing issue here with too many.

[Torchlight]

48. You're conflating again.

The only real issue I had today was thinking a conversation begun in good faith become little more than a litany of meritless accusations which, though great in number, are dwarfed by excuses why evidence is consistently denied.

Were I to conflate with the same deftness as you, I might assert you trivialize and minimize evidence and it has no meaning to you. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, and an 'ongoing issue' it appears.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

49. If your inability to enter "fentanyl" as a search term to find the threads in question

is one of good faith, then I'm sorry if my unwillingness to call out individual posts on this forum has caused you any problem.

[yardwork]

43. It's been explained over and over, too.

I can think of reasons why some anonymous posters might be more interested in insisting that Democrats are cruel and callous than in acknowledging the facts as they've been presented over and over. One reason is pretty benign, the other not so much.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

45. There is nothing benign about engaging in hilarity while people--including at least one family

member of a DUer--have been lost to Fentanyl.

Ah, the internet.

[yardwork]

46. There is nothing benign about insisting - over and over - that Democrats are cruel and callous.

And that's what you're doing. Stop it. If you see a bad post, alert on it. It's totally against DU rules to keep making accusatory references to supposedly hateful threads and posts while bemoaning that DU rules won't allow you to point them out. You're violating a specific rule called "interfering with forum moderation." It's concern trolling. Drop it.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

47. I did no such thing.

The posts are here on DU. I suggest you read them.

[Dorian Gray]

54. There is a difference

in the moral panic about Halloween and candy containing fentanyl AND the dangers of purposely purchasing illicit drugs and having the drugs laced with this substance.

I've only seen the mocking of the former. That isn't going to happen.

[ck4829]

17. It's time for legalization. How do you police THAT and not use brutal authoritarian tactics?

You can't.

Safe, controlled, responsible, and LEGAL drug use.

[Calculating]

27. Don't do hard drugs, especially opioids

Just hope these people know they're playing Russian roulette.

[TiredGenXFemme]

60. Equivalent med doses

5mg Morphine = 1mg Dilaudid = 0.25mcg Fentanyl (that's micrograms, not milligrams... mcg is 1/1000 of a mg)

[dembotoz]

71. son broke his collar bone son is 26 years old not a kid...they gave him fentanyl in the hospital

worked like a charm and no he did not become addicted
It was given iv
it was not a pill

Not a story, I was there, I took him to the hospital

[TiredGenXFemme]

72. I no longer do inpatient care, but

when I did, I gave fentanyl many times. It's been about 7 years since I gave an IV medication at all, so long before the current crisis. It was better tolerated for those with opioid allergies for pain. One has to be really mindful of dosing though. Obviously. 😬

[dembotoz]

73. can i still say welcome to du?

I only know what it was because my son has a job where drug tests happen and he needed to know what he was getting so he would not flunk a drug screen. I seemed to be their go to drug