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Nevilledog

(55,071 posts)
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 01:43 PM Nov 2022

Colorado River conditions are worsening quicker than expected. Feds prepare to step in.



Tweet text:

Conrad Swanson

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Hey folks, we took the paywall off this story to open it up to the, like, 40 million people it concerns. Take a look!

“It’s going to be ugly. The bottom line is there just isn’t going to be enough water available.”

denverpost.com
Colorado River conditions are worsening quicker than expected. Feds prepare to step in.
Running out of time and options to save water along the drying Colorado River, federal officials said they’re considering whether to release less water from the country’s two largest re…
9:16 AM · Nov 4, 2022


https://www.denverpost.com/2022/11/02/colorado-river-drought-powell-california-arizona/

No paywall cuz I still got one
https://archive.ph/CUChG


Running out of time and options to save water along the drying Colorado River, federal officials said they’re considering whether to release less water from the country’s two largest reservoirs downstream to Arizona, California and Nevada.

Without enough snow this winter, the water level at Lake Powell — the country’s second-largest reservoir — will drop below a critical level by next November, according to a new report from the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation. Below that point, the Glen Canyon Dam will no longer be able to generate electricity and experts worry whether conditions will worsen to the point that the structure will no longer be able to send water downstream at all.

Conditions on the Colorado River are worsening quicker than expected. The seven states in the river basin made little progress saving water over the summer and Colorado is heading into its third La Niña winter in a row, likely indicating below-average snowpack. A worst-case scenario, once considered only as a hypothetical, now presents a very real threat.

“It’s going to be ugly,” Mark Squillace, a water law professor at the University of Colorado, said. “The bottom line is there just isn’t going to be enough water available.”

The path forward for Reclamation, the states and dozens of Native American tribes is narrowing, Brad Udall, a water and climate scientist with Colorado State University, said, calling the implications “beyond serious.”

*snip*


40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Colorado River conditions are worsening quicker than expected. Feds prepare to step in. (Original Post) Nevilledog Nov 2022 OP
Arizona will run out of water. ProudMNDemocrat Nov 2022 #1
the most voracious water consumer in Arizona is agriculture mike_c Nov 2022 #8
Wrong tense-aspect/Aktionsart. Igel Nov 2022 #24
How about repurposing the Keystone Pipeline and bring water down from Canada FakeNoose Nov 2022 #2
That's a drop in the bucket NickB79 Nov 2022 #5
NO!! With the Midwest drying and the Mississippi extremely low...for what? PortTack Nov 2022 #7
That would be the lower Midwest. The upper Midwest still has ample water. Kaleva Nov 2022 #10
The morality tends to be a problem. Igel Nov 2022 #25
It cannot come from the Great Lakes aquifer. roamer65 Nov 2022 #14
Yes I get it... The Keystone Pipeline originates in Alberta & Saskachewan FakeNoose Nov 2022 #17
Until a significant number of voters in the West demand it be rescinded MichMan Nov 2022 #35
...and so will begin the Resistance. roamer65 Nov 2022 #39
If I lived in the lower Colorado River basin, I'd be looking to move. CrispyQ Nov 2022 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author Nevilledog Nov 2022 #26
Kari Lake is pushing that as a solution Nevilledog Nov 2022 #27
We're gonna have to choose one or the other. CrispyQ Nov 2022 #29
Kick & recommend for visibility. bronxiteforever Nov 2022 #4
Climate change is always "faster than expected" NickB79 Nov 2022 #6
+1 dalton99a Nov 2022 #9
I get the impression that a number of people here don't take it seriously. Kaleva Nov 2022 #11
We're fucked. Oneironaut Nov 2022 #12
I look at it as a challenge I'll do my best to overcome. Kaleva Nov 2022 #13
We're currently at 8 billion people globally NickB79 Nov 2022 #16
Inequitable distribution of resources is our biggest problem Kaleva Nov 2022 #22
It has to happen sooner. roamer65 Nov 2022 #23
And property prices in my town will just go MissB Nov 2022 #15
... Lucinda Nov 2022 #18
The price of crops...produce especially... will skyrocket, since fewer can be grown.. albacore Nov 2022 #19
Please add sarcasm indicators to your post. raccoon Nov 2022 #20
I'll do that, but.... what DUer would need a sarcasm tag for that? nt albacore Nov 2022 #30
You would be surprised Hekate Nov 2022 #32
We have plenty of Karma13612 Nov 2022 #38
California could overcome EndlessWire Nov 2022 #21
There's 12 already, & San Diego's has the biggest in the western hemisphere Hekate Nov 2022 #31
So? Maybe we need 24. EndlessWire Nov 2022 #33
Desal water is too expensive for our type of agriculture NickB79 Nov 2022 #34
Radical idea, they could also consider growing more water efficient crops. Lancero Nov 2022 #37
We'll seriously be lucky if our world doesn't resemble Mad Max Fury Road in 10 years. Initech Nov 2022 #28
Carnos have more than earned a spot on that list too. Lancero Nov 2022 #36
Solutions? NowISeetheLight Nov 2022 #40

ProudMNDemocrat

(20,877 posts)
1. Arizona will run out of water.
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 01:48 PM
Nov 2022

I have friends in Arizona.

Then there is Luke Air Force Base in Glendale that is a city within a city that is HUGE!

No Hydro power, no electricity when the extreme heat arrives.

mike_c

(37,046 posts)
8. the most voracious water consumer in Arizona is agriculture
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 04:59 PM
Nov 2022

Water deliveries to farms and ranches need to be reduced. They will be reduced. There isn't any real choice.

Igel

(37,516 posts)
24. Wrong tense-aspect/Aktionsart.
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 06:29 PM
Nov 2022

"They have been reduced. They will continue to be even more reduced."

FakeNoose

(41,519 posts)
2. How about repurposing the Keystone Pipeline and bring water down from Canada
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 01:52 PM
Nov 2022

... instead of the oil? Heck, we could even build the XL extension for that!

NickB79

(20,332 posts)
5. That's a drop in the bucket
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 02:08 PM
Nov 2022

You'd need 100 pipelines to make a difference.

It's hard to grasp just how much water the West consumes, mostly for farming semi-desert that should never have been plowed in the first place.

Besides, hasn't the "build a pipeline" crowd learned their lesson yet, now that we're seeing the Mississippi hit record lows from drought after suggesting we tap it for water to the West?

PortTack

(35,820 posts)
7. NO!! With the Midwest drying and the Mississippi extremely low...for what?
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 04:06 PM
Nov 2022

So they can continue to let the Saudis have water rights in AZ, so they can water their lawns? and b4 anyone says anything I have a daughter and family there. I say the same things to them.

Kaleva

(40,345 posts)
10. That would be the lower Midwest. The upper Midwest still has ample water.
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 05:30 PM
Nov 2022

The farm belt is expected to move north in the northern Midwest and into Canada.

Igel

(37,516 posts)
25. The morality tends to be a problem.
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 06:33 PM
Nov 2022

"It's wrong for them to use *our* water to grow *their* food."

So we stop them from using our water for their food.

Do we let them buy the food, or insist that they starve?

Note we do the same with carbon. We outsource production and buy things from coal-powered factories from China. But we drive EVs and preen. Saudis outsource water; Americans have outsourced carbon for decades. (Okay, I don't drive an EV. My ICE gets 37 mpg, like many hybrids. 20% over EPA rating. I'm not rich enough to afford an EV--and don't like the government subsidy I'd have to accept.)

roamer65

(37,945 posts)
14. It cannot come from the Great Lakes aquifer.
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 05:38 PM
Nov 2022

The Great Lakes Compact passed and signed in 2008 forbids it.

FakeNoose

(41,519 posts)
17. Yes I get it... The Keystone Pipeline originates in Alberta & Saskachewan
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 05:52 PM
Nov 2022

For reference this shows the lines of the Keystone Pipeline that was under discussion in an earlier post. The Pipeline is entirely built and functional now, except for the green diagonal line (XL shortcut) that was never built and Biden has cancelled it. As the pipeline is now, it wouldn't be much help to the western states. There would have to be another line built to hook up with the Colorado River somewhere.



MichMan

(17,117 posts)
35. Until a significant number of voters in the West demand it be rescinded
Sat Nov 5, 2022, 01:40 AM
Nov 2022

and they vote to change it. The 5 Great Lakes States will be told to STFU.

roamer65

(37,945 posts)
39. ...and so will begin the Resistance.
Mon Nov 7, 2022, 12:53 AM
Nov 2022

The transfer infrastructure won’t last a month.

CrispyQ

(40,942 posts)
3. If I lived in the lower Colorado River basin, I'd be looking to move.
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 01:56 PM
Nov 2022

I don't see how they're not going to have to choose between Lakes Mead and Powell at some point. And to think there was talk about building a water pipeline from the Mississippi to the southwest. Rivers around the world are running dry. Maybe 8 billion miracles are enough.

Response to CrispyQ (Reply #3)

Nevilledog

(55,071 posts)
27. Kari Lake is pushing that as a solution
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 06:52 PM
Nov 2022

Thought I posted it wrong space, but it was the right space...lol

CrispyQ

(40,942 posts)
29. We're gonna have to choose one or the other.
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 07:02 PM
Nov 2022

They can't both go dead pool. Although eventually they both will.

Damming Glen Canyon was a crime.

NickB79

(20,332 posts)
6. Climate change is always "faster than expected"
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 02:09 PM
Nov 2022

A famous scientist once said "Humanity's downfall will be it's inability to grasp the exponential function."

Oneironaut

(6,289 posts)
12. We're fucked.
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 05:33 PM
Nov 2022

Even at this point, it’s too late to prevent cataclysm. We can only mitigate how bad it’s going to be.

The Conservative mantra is already turning from “Climate change is a hoax!” to “It’s God / It’s a natural warming period!”

This legitimately makes me want to kill myself, rather than suffer through the “new world” where resources are scarce, and, only the rich are blessed with a good life. I won’t right now, but, at a certain point, life will just become hell.

NickB79

(20,332 posts)
16. We're currently at 8 billion people globally
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 05:52 PM
Nov 2022

By 2100, we'll be at 4 billion and falling, fast. Were's so far past carrying capacity, it's gonna be bad. Like when a herd of deer strip a forest bare to the bark and die en mass bad.

And that's assuming we haven't had a nuclear resource-war apocalypse by then

Kaleva

(40,345 posts)
22. Inequitable distribution of resources is our biggest problem
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 06:12 PM
Nov 2022

I wonder what supermarkets do with all that food that goes past best used by date. The dumpsters must fill up pretty quickly.

MissB

(16,344 posts)
15. And property prices in my town will just go
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 05:45 PM
Nov 2022

Up and up.

We have water. We will likely always have plenty of water. I know this.

albacore

(2,747 posts)
19. The price of crops...produce especially... will skyrocket, since fewer can be grown..
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 06:02 PM
Nov 2022

Last edited Fri Nov 4, 2022, 07:54 PM - Edit history (1)

...with little water available.

And we know who is to blame, don't we?

Biden!!!

After all, he personally caused the price of gas to go up, and he personally caused all this inflation, and he personally caused .... just everything bad.

On edit... for those who need it.

Karma13612

(4,981 posts)
38. We have plenty of
Sat Nov 5, 2022, 03:31 AM
Nov 2022

Curious guests who might not realize your jest.



Thanks for adding the “/s”!!!

EndlessWire

(8,103 posts)
21. California could overcome
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 06:08 PM
Nov 2022

If we faced facts and begin to build desalinization plants, multiple, complete with pipelines to the western states. Other states with coasts could do the same. Might or might not be enough, but at least we could try. We are rich with coast, and we have the technology.

Hekate

(100,133 posts)
31. There's 12 already, & San Diego's has the biggest in the western hemisphere
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 07:56 PM
Nov 2022

But we have 40 million people, too.

There are 12 existing desalination facilities throughout California, according to the state's Water
Resources Control Board, including the Carlsbad desalination project in San Diego County, which is the largest desalination plant in the western hemisphere and produces three million gallons of drinking water each day.Oct 14, 2022

California approves desalination plant as drought hits water ...

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/14/california-approves-desalination-plant-as-drought-hits-water-supplies.html

NickB79

(20,332 posts)
34. Desal water is too expensive for our type of agriculture
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 09:39 PM
Nov 2022

Even with 100 desalination plants, California farmers couldn't afford to buy it at the volumes they use.

That, or produce prices in the grocery store have to skyrocket.

Lancero

(3,276 posts)
37. Radical idea, they could also consider growing more water efficient crops.
Sat Nov 5, 2022, 03:18 AM
Nov 2022

Even more radical idea, maybe we should stop exporting water intensive crops. All but exporting our water when we do that.

Initech

(108,688 posts)
28. We'll seriously be lucky if our world doesn't resemble Mad Max Fury Road in 10 years.
Fri Nov 4, 2022, 06:58 PM
Nov 2022

I blame religious fundamentalists, Fox, and right wing talk radio for getting us here.

Lancero

(3,276 posts)
36. Carnos have more than earned a spot on that list too.
Sat Nov 5, 2022, 03:16 AM
Nov 2022

Meat, in general, is the most water inefficient food around. And thats before considering the rampant amounts of land that need to be cleared out to grow assorted feedstocks.

NowISeetheLight

(4,002 posts)
40. Solutions?
Mon Nov 7, 2022, 09:06 AM
Nov 2022

- Cut agricultural water. Over 80% of non-environmental water used in California is for agriculture. Most of it not delivered in ways to conserve. I drive by fields near my joyse and there are giant sprinklers going at midday when it’s 100 degrees out. Ever heard of evaporation?

- Ban lawns. I have rocks and desert landscape in my yard. I had the same in Arizona for twenty years. Lawns are irresponsible. 10% of water use in California is urban and 50% of that amount is landscaping? What idiot thinks that is OK? Some places are now paying to rip out lawns. It’s a start.

https://www.valleywater.org/news-events/news-releases/state-california-bans-watering-decorative-grass-commercial-industrial-and

- Ban wasteful water oriented development. Here in the Palm Springs area a city council recently voted down a huge surf park project. Hey stupid… Want to surf? There’s a giant ocean three hours west! Now Disney wants to build a giant Cotino housing development with a huge lake. ITS THE DESERT!!! Get a clue!

https://kesq.com/news/2022/09/21/la-quinta-city-council-denies-proposed-surf-park-project/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/17/disney-california-storyliving-community-rancho-mirage

- Desalination plants. We have a giant ocean next door here in California. Yes there are environmental issues with desalination. But if it comes down to it it’s people first. It’ll require more power to run, it’s expensive but possible, Saudi Arabia built a low energy desalination plant. It can be done.

https://calmatters.org/environment/2022/10/desalination-plants-california/

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/commercial/2021/3/worlds-lowest-energy-water-desalination-plant-built-in-saudi-desert-653013



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