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H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 01:09 PM Nov 2022

The War Ain't Over

"In the midst of chaos, there is also opportunity.” -- Sun Tzu


If I consider both sides of my family, I've had relatives fight in every war from the Revolution to Vietnam. Most of those I knew did not talk about their experiences. My maternal grandfather, however, would tell my brothers and II about WW2.

Pappy had been training to be a minister, he said, but found the various sins he learned about more attractive. Eventually, he entered the military, got out, and then re-enlisted for WW2. Being older than most, he was called "Pappy." He became a drill instructor, and then went into combat. He would suffer serious injuries, but continue to serve in occupying the Pacific theater as the war ended.

The Pappy I knew was not child-friendly. I knew he had worked in construction, and was a union organizer and activist. He thought that strong workers' unions were the key to preserving democracy in what was then the modern age. It was only later when my brothers and I helped him tend his massive gardens, while consuming massive quantities of beer, that we really got to know him.

We asked him about being a drill instructor. He said that it was essential to weed out those who were "weak," because they were the ones that got everyone killed in combat. And that those few who died during basic training on that island had died for their country.

Pappy's concern for this country before he died was of what he saw as an internal threat, of the same nature as that of he fought against in Europe in WW2. He loved history and politics, and was certain that the time would come when this threat would rise to the surface in the United States. He said that citizzens participating in democracy was the antidote. That if enough patriotic people were active participants, they would outnumber those posing the threats

It wasn't until the final weeks of his long life that I became aware of how haunted Pappy was from having to kill (or be killed) in WW2. I realized that it isn't just those, for example, that throw themselves on the enemy's grenade that give their lives to protect others. Whatever life Pappy may have had if duty had not called was sacrificed. And that is the higher meaning of "greater love no person has, than to lay down their lives for others."

It's that willingness to go beyond one's first nature, to give up the security we find in our daily lives ..... to not only do more, but to be more. Now, please think about that in the context of today. A week ago, how many people here recognized the threat of fascism in America? Saw a growing number of republicans channeling their inner nazi? Democracy stopped many of them in their tracks, on local, state, and federal levels. But the threat remains, despite being stifled at the voting booth.

The threat remains. Right now, the single most important point where we must apply positive pressure is in Georgia. We do not have the luxury of sitting back, content that we did much better than the "experts" had predicted. Every single one of us can contribute, in some manner, to make sure that Raphael Warnock defeats Herschel Walker in their December run-off. As a community -- as a country -- we need to rise up to that level.

Keep on fighting the Good Fight!
H2O Man

39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The War Ain't Over (Original Post) H2O Man Nov 2022 OP
K&R... Docreed2003 Nov 2022 #1
Thank you! H2O Man Nov 2022 #2
As ever Easterncedar Nov 2022 #3
Thank you very much! H2O Man Nov 2022 #4
I hope the results spur folks Easterncedar Nov 2022 #5
Exactly. H2O Man Nov 2022 #15
The reason for more Rs and Independents -- messages from billionaires' media conglomerates Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2022 #25
Right. H2O Man Nov 2022 #27
Yes! Easterncedar Nov 2022 #29
Bookmarked and wise words. Boomerproud Nov 2022 #7
Thanks! H2O Man Nov 2022 #16
Agreed. It will not be an easy win, but it is very winnable. SYFROYH Nov 2022 #6
One thing I hadn't considered... Septua Nov 2022 #14
That will probably help some. On the other hand UGA is still #1 in football this year SYFROYH Nov 2022 #38
This message was self-deleted by its author SYFROYH Nov 2022 #39
Great! H2O Man Nov 2022 #17
very well stated! big lessons ahead & we really need your steady, clear insights, H20 man! bluboid Nov 2022 #8
Thank you! H2O Man Nov 2022 #19
K & R malaise Nov 2022 #9
Thanks! H2O Man Nov 2022 #20
K & R malaise Nov 2022 #10
Very good post. OldBaldy1701E Nov 2022 #11
Very good! H2O Man Nov 2022 #21
Just donated $25 to Raphael's Founders Group for The Dec GA Runoff. Tommymac Nov 2022 #12
Thank you! H2O Man Nov 2022 #22
You are very welcome! Tommymac Nov 2022 #26
I think that H2O Man Nov 2022 #28
Thanks for the eloquent reminder H2O Man. KPN Nov 2022 #13
Thanks! H2O Man Nov 2022 #23
Great story on its own BaronChocula Nov 2022 #18
Oh, thank you! H2O Man Nov 2022 #24
Fascism and the dark forces agains democracy never completely disappear dlk Nov 2022 #30
Right. H2O Man Nov 2022 #31
He was right dlk Nov 2022 #32
Thank you! H2O Man Nov 2022 #33
Exactly right, H20! peggysue2 Nov 2022 #34
Thank you! H2O Man Nov 2022 #36
+100. MarineCombatEngineer Nov 2022 #35
Thanks! H2O Man Nov 2022 #37

Docreed2003

(16,850 posts)
1. K&R...
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 01:33 PM
Nov 2022

Ty for this! Inspiring, poignant, and extremely relevant! Much love to you and yours H20 Man...hope you are well.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
2. Thank you!
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 01:37 PM
Nov 2022

I am doing well. I'm looking forward to going and visiting my grandson again today! And then, starting in the evening, getting down to business on this Georgia contest.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
4. Thank you very much!
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 02:16 PM
Nov 2022

We have the upper hand right now, but not by enough to sit back and take anything for granted.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
15. Exactly.
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 03:33 PM
Nov 2022

I talked with a number of relatives and friends who had been mighty anxious as the elections approached. I can't honestly say that I was, because I was confident that the voter turnout would be high for a mid-term. The last three cycles have, for example, shown that the youth vote turns out when they have candidates that speak to their wants and needs. And the more they see politicians -- and I'll say especially President Biden -- working to represent them, I was confident they would turn out in a strong way.

My only real disappointment was in the contest in our Congressional district. We had a perfect candidate in Josh Riley. I had worked for him since the primary season, and thought his campaign was very well run. I did not think it transitioned well for the general election, considering that Democrats are outnumbered by both republicans and independents. I still did some phone banking with the campaign, but focused more on reaching independents in the majority of the district, which is rural. But obviously not enough!

I'm satisfied that I did my part, though. And that there will be another contest in two years. So I'll get to that as it comes about. But for now, I'm focused on Georgia.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,254 posts)
25. The reason for more Rs and Independents -- messages from billionaires' media conglomerates
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 05:35 PM
Nov 2022

6 companies own over 90% of the media "consumed" by Americans.

Thanks to Katie Porter's charts, it's clear that half or more of our inflation troubles were the result of corporate greed (record profits).

A copy and paste of something I posted a couple weeks or so before election:

tv: Let's see what real Americans are concerned about...

tv: economy INFLATION gas prices abortion laws INFLATION groceries INFLATION gas prices INFLATION economy INFLATION gas prices INFLATION groceries INFLATION gas prices INFLATION economy INFLATION gas prices INFLATION groceries INFLATION voting rights gas prices INFLATION economy INFLATION gas prices INFLATION groceries INFLATION gas prices INFLATION economy INFLATION gas prices threat to democracy INFLATION groceries INFLATION gas prices INFLATION economy INFLATION gas prices record profits INFLATION groceries INFLATION gas prices INFLATION fascism economy INFLATION gas prices INFLATION groceries INFLATION gas prices INFLATION economy INFLATION gas prices INFLATION groceries INFLATION gas prices INFLATION

tv: What is your primary concern, going into the midterms?

real 'Murkin: INFLATION!

tv: And there you have it, folks! After the barrage of 50 commercials for overpriced pharmaceuticals you don't need and health insurance that will bankrupt you, we'll be back for an update on INFLATION.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
27. Right.
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 08:06 PM
Nov 2022

There are people who believe everything the see on tv. And those who only watch those outlets that reinforce what they already believe.

Easterncedar

(2,262 posts)
29. Yes!
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 10:03 PM
Nov 2022

Heard a very young man at a rally last week remark that folks don’t get riled up because ”their ears are stuffed with money.”

Boomerproud

(7,941 posts)
7. Bookmarked and wise words.
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 02:59 PM
Nov 2022

Yes, I've exhaled a bit but the celebratory mood in too many posts concerns me. We are NOT out of danger!

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
16. Thanks!
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 03:42 PM
Nov 2022

I have found a number of OP/threads concerning since summer, and will wager that includes the ones you made note of. Part of that involved the amount of hostility I saw. Two people who I assumed I was on good terms with for many years attacked me as a person -- rather than my opinion -- though both had not placed what I said in proper context. In response, I noted that in couples' therapy, if one person tells the other what they think, you have identified the problem. Same holds true in internet discussions.

(I also had another person who I don't know message me, in an attempt to tell me what I could and could not say on DU. The person also called me an "asshole." While that is true, I am a bit uncomfortable when someone only points out my strong points. But I resisted the temptation to tell the person the long list of weaknesses.)

The board/ playing field is a bit different than it was a week ago. But the exact same struggle confronts us now.

SYFROYH

(34,162 posts)
6. Agreed. It will not be an easy win, but it is very winnable.
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 02:54 PM
Nov 2022

I live in GA and will do my part, but this state runoff will have the attention and money of national monied groups

Septua

(2,252 posts)
14. One thing I hadn't considered...
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 03:28 PM
Nov 2022

..was the fact governor elect what's-his-name was on the Nov ballot and won't be on the runoff ballot.

SYFROYH

(34,162 posts)
38. That will probably help some. On the other hand UGA is still #1 in football this year
Mon Nov 14, 2022, 02:24 PM
Nov 2022

And people are loving the 1980 Glory Days, especially with the passing of Vince Dooley.

It shouldn't matter, but it does.

Response to Septua (Reply #14)

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
17. Great!
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 03:44 PM
Nov 2022

As long as enough people are investing enough time and money into the runoff, we will win. Like you say, it won't be easy. But we can pull it off.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
19. Thank you!
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 03:53 PM
Nov 2022

I keep thinking about the republicans that have taken note of Election Day being another defeat for Trump. That it comes after 2018 and 2020 Democratic Party wins. Even that semi-human rat Newt Gingrich pulled his lips away from Trump's fat, pale ass long enough to say their party needs to change direction. Yet, we've seen republican "leadership" willing to support Walker, despite knowing he is an insult to everything the US Senate is supposed to be. I'm thinking this can be exploited by Democrats. As others have correctly noted on DU, Trump is willing to destroy the republican party to benefit himself. In chaos, there is opportunity.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
20. Thanks!
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 03:55 PM
Nov 2022

I say we should crush the Trump cult/ republican party by using democratic action. And I am 100% confident that you agree!

OldBaldy1701E

(5,088 posts)
11. Very good post.
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 03:18 PM
Nov 2022

I also have had family in every conflict since Queen Anne's War. And, they do not talk about it. I am not surprised. But, they were willing to put forth the effort and were willing to place themselves in danger to achieve it. It is something I feel is missing in our society now. Integrity... that is the word I am thinking of. And no, this is not over. We need to avoid complacency.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
21. Very good!
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 04:00 PM
Nov 2022

It is absolutely clear that very few republicans in DC -- and in a lot of state governments -- have anything that could be mistaken for integrity. None what so ever.

We have simply entred a new phase in the struggle. It's just that we are in a different position, where we can take full advantage of our ability to confront the enemy that has been confronting us for years.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
22. Thank you!
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 04:03 PM
Nov 2022

That is so important! And so needed!

Being old and the very definition of "low tech," I'll be mailing a donation on Monday.

Again, thank you! You made my day.

Tommymac

(7,263 posts)
26. You are very welcome!
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 05:43 PM
Nov 2022

IMO this is perhaps the most important US election this cycle.

It could be the final nail in TFG's coffin.

Plus Rev Warnock is a hugely qualified, intelligent, sane, compassionate human being.

Walker, not so much. I do believe he lies as much if not more then TFG. Just a despicable person.

Come on Georgia!



H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
28. I think that
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 08:13 PM
Nov 2022

at his best, Walker may have been around the same level of intelligence as a Trump. People often overlook that after football, he had a career in MMA. Neither is good for the human brain. And Walker is at the age where his decline will gather speed. I think that plays a role in the frequency and foolishness of the lies he tells. Thus, a significant portion of the public is willing to vote for a brain-damaged pathological liar for the US Senate. And that makes this such an important contest -- to beat Trump's hand-picked choice.

KPN

(15,635 posts)
13. Thanks for the eloquent reminder H2O Man.
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 03:22 PM
Nov 2022

You are absolutely right. We must not allow giddiness over election results stand in the way by letting our guard down. Thank you for that — as well as for your presence here at DU.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
23. Thanks!
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 04:12 PM
Nov 2022

I think we need to fight for every inch of democracy. And Georgia has now become the central battleground. And if there is a single thing that provides an accurate measure of the threat to democracy, I think it is the fact that one party nominated and supports Herschel Walker for the US Senate. That just disgusts me, even though I am aware that they have run other ass clowns in the past. But Walker is an insult to everything I've learned and respected about the Senate since I was in junior high school.

BaronChocula

(1,520 posts)
18. Great story on its own
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 03:48 PM
Nov 2022

And a super apt parable. Just to add, the war will continue after the Georgia runoff. Uninformed and impressionable swing voters will continue to threaten Democracy by swinging back to Republicans in elections because they think that balance is best, or because "there's really no difference between the two sides." This is where aggressive messaging against the enemies of Democracy (Reich-publicans) is crucial. The soft center of voters will be less inclined to swing right if we continue to cement how vile, and dangerous the right in its current state is to EVERYONE.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
24. Oh, thank you!
Sat Nov 12, 2022, 04:16 PM
Nov 2022

I did encounter a few independents who sputtered the "no difference between the parties" horse shit. I asked them what Democrat who served as president compared to Trump? Or what Senator they thought was of the same pathetic quality of Hershel Walker?

You are absolutely correct about the need for strong messaging. Absolutelt one hundred percent right.

dlk

(11,513 posts)
30. Fascism and the dark forces agains democracy never completely disappear
Sun Nov 13, 2022, 10:32 AM
Nov 2022

No matter the number of victories, we can never be lulled into complacency. It requires perpetual vigilance and continual nurturing to survive.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
31. Right.
Sun Nov 13, 2022, 11:26 AM
Nov 2022

I remember back in 1974, Rubin Carter telling me that democracy requires constant struggle.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
33. Thank you!
Sun Nov 13, 2022, 11:58 AM
Nov 2022

Yes, Rubin was right about that, and a lot of other things. I find myself telling my children some of the things he used to tell me, when we discuss "current events."

I'm encouraged by news from yesterday's evening, regarding the Senate. But the Georgia race remains just as important. It provides an opportunity to further divide the republican party that we must take full advantage of. I'm hoping that I'll have time today to write something up about that.

peggysue2

(10,823 posts)
34. Exactly right, H20!
Sun Nov 13, 2022, 12:09 PM
Nov 2022

We held the line but the war is not over.

We struck a significant body blow to the American First Movement, aka Fascism. At the moment, the proponents of Trumpism are licking their wounds but they haven't given up or crawled back beneath the rocks from which they came because this strain of authoritarianism and anti-democratic fever has been with us for a long time, hoping, waiting to take advantage of the low periods in the country, to push their brand of hate, resentment and dysfunction on the backs of every American.

I would highly recommend Rachel Maddow's podcast Ultra for a glimpse back into our own political history. We've been here before. We've fought the same stealth enemies to our democratic institutions in the past. On our own soil. The similarities are remarkable while the living memory of the events have been erased by the grave, those who saw and heard it first hand. Maddow has raised the dead in this series and the results are chilling but instructive.

And yes, our support for Raphael Warnock must be laser-focused, not only because he's the superior candidate but because the man will provide one more piece in our armor for 2024.

That contest will be the beatdown, a life or death match. Every chaotic moment that has been growing, expanding will culminate during the presidential election, affected by the DOJ's action, the state of the world, all the unknowables, etc.

The good news? This past Tuesday, Americans spit in the eye of the Magats, the naysayers, the narrative-setting press and said:

Not here. Not now.

We need to keep that momentum going. First stop? The run-off in Georgia.



H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
36. Thank you!
Sun Nov 13, 2022, 03:43 PM
Nov 2022

I definitely agree that people should study the political history that has led to the open attacks on democracy, including the three institutions of the federal government. It is essential to have a solid understanding of the nature of our opposition. They are unfortunately entrenched in the local, state, and federal government at a level that -- as outstanding as it was -- last Tuesday could not and did not resolve.

MarineCombatEngineer

(12,250 posts)
35. +100.
Sun Nov 13, 2022, 12:13 PM
Nov 2022


I have never once told my kids about my experience in Vietnam or the Gulf War, it's better left unsaid.

Your Pappy was a very wise man.

H2O Man

(73,506 posts)
37. Thanks!
Sun Nov 13, 2022, 03:55 PM
Nov 2022

Years ago, I would socialize after work with others, including a Vietnam combat veteran. Some of the guys would ask him about his experiences in the war, although it was evident that talking about this was extremely upsetting. I told them to stop, and they really didn't understand why. I think that sums up one of the most significant differences between veterans and non-veterans -- those who weren't there can't really understand.

The only relative I really remember talking about WW2 was an uncle. He was then a neurosurgeon, and also a banty-sized Irishman. That combination led to many, many stories about how he single-handedly won the war. As hard as it was to remain quiet when he told the most outrageous of lies, I figured it was his way of dealing with his actual and intense experiences. Not that they were the only lies he told!

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