Watch As NATO Moves The Goalposts

[SoCalDavidS]

Didn't they say that there would be Serious consequences if any NATO country was attacked.

Well, now what?

[TheBeam19]

1. Russia will receive a sternly worded letter.

[Irish_Dem]

8. Probably not even that.

[Renew Deal]

2. Two missiles landing in a field over the border doesn't constitute an attack.

[Irish_Dem]

5. Right, murdering Polish citizens is just an accident, an honest mistake anyone could make.

[Renew Deal]

22. I had not heard about the deaths.

Still, military action is usually proportional. So is it proportional to throw 19 countries into battle over this? Probably not. The best action this time is to seek apologies and maybe boost support. Next time it might be more serious.

[joshcryer]

25. Ukraine has been asking for SAMs for awhile now.

They will likely get them. And they may even be manned by Polish military on Ukrainian soil.

Assuming the facts bore out and it was a Russian cruise missile.

[DenaliDemocrat]

44. Nah, I'd take out the Crimean bridge

No casualties. A stern warning to Russia to watch their shitty fucking missiles and it helps Ukraine.

There needs to be some response. Something strategic but not deadly. It would also make Puts n look weak.

[sprinkleeninow]

6. And so how is it considered they were 'stray'?

[stopdiggin]

28. because there is virtually no rationale

in which Russia would benefit by attacking Poland?

[ck4829]

35. There was virtually no rationale for poisoning Alexander Litvinenko with polonium either

But that didn't stop Russia from doing that.

[Renew Deal]

45. This entire war is pointless...

Except from a deranged perspective which seems to permeate Russian leadership and media.

[stopdiggin]

71. that's not quite true. predatory, yes. criminal, yes.

But there were very definite 'gains' and advantages seen in regaining large sweeps (if not the entirety) of a resource rich neighbor. It was anything but 'pointless.'

(think I'll skip around the 'deranged' part for this current debate. but in terms of the advisability of attacking Poland right now ...)

[stopdiggin]

68. deflection. and hardly analogous.

Those actions were never considered an act of war against a neighboring state. Please explain, in detail, how/why Putin is looking to pick a fight with Poland (and NATO) at this juncture. Gains vs disadvantages.

[Crunchy Frog]

70. Possibly he's testing to see what the response is.

Seeing just how much he can get away with.

[stopdiggin]

72. as a prelude to 'what?'

An advance against the entire western block?

[brooklynite]

39. Because the point hit is near the Ukraine border...

...and Russia would have no reason to hit Poland, much less a country town.,=

[Crunchy Frog]

73. There may be more to it than that.

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=eAUTfqT1_HaMRm7M5VVrOQ

[stopdiggin]

74. that Russian has been targeting

the Ukraine power grid (for weeks) is not exactly 'new stuff', or hidden agenda. The energy plant is inside Ukraine (and probably the likely target). Taking out 'lines' that run away from the intended neutralized 'source' - doesn't sound particularly strategic, nor a particularly sound use of resources (weaponry).

[Martin68]

51. Umm, I'm afraid it does. That is a clear violation of national sovereignty.

[Renew Deal]

54. No doubt it's a violation.

So are all of the misplaced boundary stones on national borders. And the Spanish invasion of Gibraltar a few years ago, and the US invasion of Bulgaria.

This is obviously serious but I doubt it’s enough to activate a full NATO response. Now if the Russians say they did it on purpose, that changes things.

[HAB911]

3. Let's hope they have been holding something special

in abeyance for just this

[Sky Jewels]

4. It depends on whether it was intentional or a misfire.

If Poland determines it was intentional ... all bets are off.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

9. Are we hoping for WWIII?

[stopdiggin]

29. one has to wonder (at times)

We do tend to get pretty het up here on occasion. But, you're right - the question probably needs to be asked.

[TheProle]

34. Some of us apparently are

Jesus.

[sarisataka]

40. Some folks think of war as something they see on TV

They cannot imagining it exploding over their home town.

[BlackSkimmer]

52. This.

Never thought I’d see so many here all gung-ho for war.

[Mariana]

43. Some people are.

Almost all of them are people who won't be going to fight, if it does happen.

[TheBeam19]

65. Defense contractors are.

And that’s all that matters. Just keep the taxpayer money flowing to them. Our opinions don’t matter.

[msongs]

10. let's don't wait for facts of the matter ok nt

[republianmushroom]

11. Yep

[tritsofme]

12. Some folks are really rooting for a World War?

Do you think millions of people should die because of an unintentional miss? If that’s what it turns out to be?

I for one, hope cooler heads prevail. Luckily Biden is president.

[48656c6c6f20]

19. What's Biden got to do with it?

NATO will meet and decide what to do.
Until that happens it's not his decision. The USA is NOT NATO, we're a member.

[tritsofme]

24. Right, we're just a member... Jesus Christ.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

57. +1

[48656c6c6f20]

60. Yeah Jess Christ the American arrogance.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. You want us to go to war over an errant missile?

We didn't go to war with Korea over the axe murder incident in 1976.

[electric_blue68]

46. THIS! ☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️ (post #12 )

[TheBeam19]

64. It doesn't matter what any of us

want to happen. All that matters is the continuous flood of taxpayer money to defense contractors.

[secondwind]

13. WHY DON'T WE WAIT TO HEAR THE WHOLE STORY?

Sheesh!

[WarGamer]

14. When I was like 9 years old... and the Steelers beat the Cowboys...

I Jumped on my bed crying, shaking my fist asking God to make Pittsburgh disappear.

[AggressiveCanary]

61. I still do that

[48656c6c6f20]

15. They'll send a strongly worded Susan Collins meme

[Kennah]

16. NY Times reporting via Polish media of a grain plant explosion

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/world/europe/poland-explosion-ukraine-missile-strike.html

Without a specific reference to missiles.

[Johnny2X2X]

17. Stray missiles aren't considered an attack

And certainly not on farms.

[ck4829]

26. It was, however, a reckless and careless barrage, akin to picking up a gun and firing blindly

Last edited Tue Nov 15, 2022, 03:55 PM - Edit history (1)

This attack also knocked out power to neighboring Moldova, that's how bad it was.

If someone consciously picks up a loaded gun and just starts shooting without aiming or caring what they hit, we don't say that the victims of that blind assault were hit by stray bullets.

[sarisataka]

42. If you read headlines

We say people were hit by stray bullets very often

[Torchlight]

18. I'd be interested in reading the full statement

and taking that statement on its own accord, and see how much, if any, applies directly to today's incident.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. Man, people are thirsty for war.

[Magoo48]

30. I was just thinking the same thing.

Beat the fucking war drums. Who on this thread is ready to go to war. If we’re too fucking old, who’s ready to send their kids and grandkids? Raise your hand, anybody? While we’re lining up to give blood, let’s give the MIC and the War Department anothe half trillion.

WAR IS A Racket.

[sarisataka]

53. It was less than 15 minutes

After the news broke and I was seeing what-are-we-waiting-for posts. Apparently some people think WW3 will be a miniseries on TV.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

67. Tbf, we've been having those "what are we waiting for" posts for months.

[tishaLA]

21. It's better to be circumspect right now IMO

Because NATO acting against Russia is a big fucking deal. Let's wait to learn what we can and act from there (and I may be wrong, but the response won't necessarily be military--cyber war, for example--and we won't necessarily see it).

[moondust]

23. Now what? Investigation ongoing.

Adm. Stavridis says it will take hours, not days.

Gen. McCaffrey believes it was likely an errant missile, possibly a piece of a missile that was shot down by Ukraine.

Russia denies it was their missile.

[Qutzupalotl]

27. Whose side are you on?

[BannonsLiver]

32. Definitely not NATO's

I think we can deduce that much from the tone of the OP.

[awesomerwb1]

31. FFS can some just wait until SOME facts come out

JFC

[Delphinus]

33. That's

my fear.

[Wounded Bear]

37. Just stop...

[sarisataka]

38. It's been over an hour! Why is Moscow still standing???

I am so glad we have leaders who think before acting

[electric_blue68]

41. Intensely, Thoroughly Investigate! Just Wait! I'm not sure when facing ..

the country with the second (or 3rd if China's now second) largest nuclear arsenal... I go with NATO's blanket to a deadly but "small" (NOT to the people effected!!!) stated in the Organization's long time stated response.

Anyone cogent enough during The Cuban Missle Crisis knows what that FELT Like!

I was 9 yrs old sitting in ? #2 or #3 target - NYC.
Do nothing right now!

For Life's sake I don't know IF there's a way to be proportional W/O Sliding into WWIII.

And I'm speaking as a half 2nd Gen Ukrainian-American who's been following this from the god damn build up back in Feb!

[BlueLucy]

47. Accident or not Russia must pay a price.

Implement a no fly zone.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

49. A so-called "no-fly zone" means NATO aircraft must be prepared to shoot down Russian planes.

[BlueLucy]

55. Exactly

It's time to put an end to this Russian invasion.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

56. Considering that the Russian air force has hardly been a factor in this conflict

that strikes me as a colossally bad idea.

[BlueLucy]

59. Maybe so.

Last edited Tue Nov 15, 2022, 05:59 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm just tired of Russian rapist and murderers. I'm so glad I am not making these decisions. This is going to be a difficult situation for Biden and our NATO allies.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

63. Trust me, I'm for arming UKR forces to the teeth.

We just need to weight providing the support that UKR forces need to prevail, while not accidentally setting off a nuclear conflagration or WWIII.

Anti-aircraft/missile systems are an ongoing need. We can/should provide these w/o it being "provocative." KWIM?

[Gore1FL]

48. Attacked vs Accidentally hit are different things that deserve different responses.

Let's please slow the roll when it comes to starting WW III.

[Martin68]

50. I suspect two things will happen. 1) NATO will use back channels to send a strong warning to Russia,

and 2) NATO may lower the restrictions on the range of weapons sent to Ukraine.

[Emrys]

66. I'm going to watch as a few things happen (in rough order).

Forensic investigations are carried out on the impact site and the debris, and satellite tracking is consulted.

The Russian government is warned via back channels not to try pushing its luck too far.

The Polish government waits for these investigations' results while convenng intra- and inter-govermental talks and consultations.

Poland considers whether to formally invoke NATO's Article 4 and have members confer on the possible ways forward.

Framing this as some sort of dickwaving contest isn't something I expect to see happen beyond the fringes and dregs of the media.

[Crunchy Frog]

69. Sternly worded condemnations.