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Tacan

(97 posts)
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 05:25 PM Nov 2022

The rule of law in this country is dead.

Several officials that participated in the insurrection have been reelected instead of going to jail.
The former President, after all his crimes is going to run for President again.
The wife of a Supreme Court Justice, actively plotted to overturn the Presidental election.
Subpoenas have been ignored without any consequences.
Fake electors, even with their signature, no consequences.

Where is Merrick Garland? Where is the Department of Justice?

120 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The rule of law in this country is dead. (Original Post) Tacan Nov 2022 OP
i hear ya my friend GenXer47 Nov 2022 #1
It's only dead for the politicians and the ultra rich Beachnutt Nov 2022 #2
Merrick Garland is dotting "i"s and crossing "t"s. Girard442 Nov 2022 #3
I don't. dchill Nov 2022 #24
Do some research on failed seditious conspiracy prosecutions Fiendish Thingy Nov 2022 #32
The best most beautiful i's and t's. Lucky Luciano Nov 2022 #34
You are just finding out now? Caliman73 Nov 2022 #4
Very good round up. Have you ever read any of these articles: LT Barclay Nov 2022 #13
Link not working for me. 403 forbidden. dchill Nov 2022 #28
Maybe this is the same link. I don't know. The site has been dead for a long time and it appears LT Barclay Nov 2022 #69
Thank you for these links.. mountain grammy Nov 2022 #111
A great site and Chris Hedges is a sure cure for any optimism that creeps into my head. LT Barclay Nov 2022 #113
Ha. Probably why I drifted away. mountain grammy Nov 2022 #116
I can't say I disagree with the man, but I'm sure he's not much fun at a party. LT Barclay Nov 2022 #117
Best link I've seen in a long time! PatrickforB Nov 2022 #43
Chomsky is a Putin apologist and a Cambodian genocide denier. Just A Box Of Rain Nov 2022 #92
Are you sure? Because Noam Chomsky is considered a giant in linguistics, PatrickforB Nov 2022 #114
He's a very cunning linguist Just A Box Of Rain Nov 2022 #115
We were literally founded by wealthy white business owners who wanted more profits. NullTuples Nov 2022 #26
Yes and when it came time to impose a tax to pay for the revolution it was on the small farmers, ShazamIam Nov 2022 #53
Exactly inthewind21 Nov 2022 #95
Kicking this up. lees1975 Nov 2022 #5
The most Roberts can do to Thomas, is yell at him. 3Hotdogs Nov 2022 #12
He could get an amplifier and yell so loud Thomas could hear him well.. jaxexpat Nov 2022 #40
:) I'd second a subforum just for headlines like this Hortensis Nov 2022 #6
It's absurd that the crime boss and insurrectionist acts with impunity and is a serious CivicGrief Nov 2022 #7
to quote Yeats edhopper Nov 2022 #8
+10000 Celerity Nov 2022 #47
+1000 My response to those who believe that Trump was chosen by God, is DemocraticPatriot Nov 2022 #67
...Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born AGAIN. dchill Nov 2022 #79
well, for Trumpy, it's Porn Again Celerity Nov 2022 #80
Stunning and sobering. JudyM Nov 2022 #85
Yes. It is hard to believe that Trump has been a POTUS or candidate for 7 and a half years now. Celerity Nov 2022 #109
Too much of all of our lives! JudyM Nov 2022 #118
I started uni in London a month or so before I turned 15 in 2011. Skipped multiple grades in the UK, Celerity Nov 2022 #119
Fantastic head start! JudyM Nov 2022 #120
KICK - GIULIANI orangecrush Nov 2022 #9
Too much crime, not enough time Mr. Ected Nov 2022 #10
I'd buy that if those who did get processed were evenly distributed, but they're not. NullTuples Nov 2022 #30
Sorry.... JoeOtterbein Nov 2022 #11
Yes. This. iemanja Nov 2022 #14
Exactly. cilla4progress Nov 2022 #39
Serious crimes have been committed. SERIOUS CRIMES!!!! Iwasthere Nov 2022 #15
THIS, THIS this... YoshidaYui Nov 2022 #16
Hammer Time better be good. czarjak Nov 2022 #17
WOW. What an uplifting thread. wnylib Nov 2022 #18
Hello wnylib lefthandedskyhook Nov 2022 #25
I've been in western NY for almost 40 years, but wnylib Nov 2022 #31
Erie is an hour away lefthandedskyhook Nov 2022 #58
Hour away from you? You must be wnylib Nov 2022 #70
Near lake Chautauqua lefthandedskyhook Nov 2022 #71
That's pretty close to PA. wnylib Nov 2022 #73
Just not into posting much lefthandedskyhook Nov 2022 #75
Some of us are better at talking than we are at writing lefthandedskyhook Nov 2022 #76
The people still have the power lefthandedskyhook Nov 2022 #19
We have, however, indicted sitting Congress people - previously. dchill Nov 2022 #35
Is it delayed or are you just impatient lefthandedskyhook Nov 2022 #50
Oh yeah? How is that? dchill Nov 2022 #51
Go have a think, friend lefthandedskyhook Nov 2022 #52
You're very close. Friend. dchill Nov 2022 #54
Was justice delayed also justice denied for all the innocent executed? lefthandedskyhook Nov 2022 #56
That was nothing even close to justice. dchill Nov 2022 #57
What planet are uron? lefthandedskyhook Nov 2022 #61
uron. dchill Nov 2022 #62
A little joke you seem to not get lefthandedskyhook Nov 2022 #63
I'm from the planet Uron... lefthandedskyhook Nov 2022 #65
or... lefthandedskyhook Nov 2022 #59
When a rich powerful white dude faces real prison time for Jan 6 , I'll believe JT45242 Nov 2022 #20
I agree Garland is sitting on his thumbs Handler Nov 2022 #21
You are absolutely right on all counts. dchill Nov 2022 #22
Dead and buried with Justice. nt Samrob Nov 2022 #23
Where is Merrick Garland? Where IS the Dept of Justice? Fiendish Thingy Nov 2022 #27
Oh, you're back mcar Nov 2022 #29
Busy, busy, too Hekate Nov 2022 #87
Maybe that's why the show Law & Order was so popular. Mr. Evil Nov 2022 #33
Andrew Weissman is agreeing with you right now... dchill Nov 2022 #36
We are becoming an international joke when it comes to justice. Garland is ineffective and played. Evolve Dammit Nov 2022 #37
I choose to believe that AG Garland does want to prosecute the criminals FakeNoose Nov 2022 #38
DOJ asleep at the wheel . I am so angry Bread and Circuses Nov 2022 #41
He can be crossing his T's and dotting his I's oldtime dfl_er Nov 2022 #42
That does to seem to be the really weird assumption behind the way so many... Silent3 Nov 2022 #72
Rule of Law has only applied to certain people in certain situation. AZLD4Candidate Nov 2022 #44
I agree... FirstLight Nov 2022 #45
The DOJ can't arbitrarily indict anyone Genki Hikari Nov 2022 #46
Simply not true. former9thward Nov 2022 #48
Yep. I'm sick of hearing the excuse that only grand juries can indict. That's not true. Solomon Nov 2022 #64
These grand juries have had plenty of time lees1975 Nov 2022 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author traitorsgalore Nov 2022 #49
You do know that Democratic President BIDEN appointed Garland Hortensis Nov 2022 #55
None of the very justified impatience and doubt is an accusation of outright corruption Silent3 Nov 2022 #74
:) Old saying: "Can't kid a kidder or play a player." Hortensis Nov 2022 #84
So your attitude about posts on DU is that we can't afford discussion of things... Silent3 Nov 2022 #96
Please don't "strawman" my comments. Hortensis Nov 2022 #106
Please then, don't, act as if you should be declaring the intent and effect... Silent3 Nov 2022 #108
+1 betsuni Nov 2022 #77
✔️💯. live love laugh Nov 2022 #82
Yup. Contrary to this forum's views, Garland is a failure. Marius25 Nov 2022 #60
Even though they are not the ruling party, conservatives are drunk with power and out of control. Initech Nov 2022 #66
Did you guys hear that Boeing 777 take off? newdayneeded Nov 2022 #78
biden should give garland 2 weeks to indict moonshinegnomie Nov 2022 #81
Sure is looking that way Blue Owl Nov 2022 #83
rule of law...dead? llashram Nov 2022 #86
Try running a red light Hekate Nov 2022 #88
Are you suggesting Biden isn't up to the task? Kaleva Nov 2022 #89
I only know this. From November 2020. Grasswire2 Nov 2022 #94
It does appear that Biden is taking a hands off approach Kaleva Nov 2022 #98
What, pray tell, is the relationship between doubting the DoJ and Biden "not being up to the task"? Silent3 Nov 2022 #99
LOL Grasswire2 Nov 2022 #101
That's not a very precise tool for how the entire DoJ reponds Silent3 Nov 2022 #102
Biden is responsible for the performance of his Administration Kaleva Nov 2022 #103
There's a huge difference between Trump-like lack of responsibility Silent3 Nov 2022 #104
I'm not blaming either Biden or Garland Kaleva Nov 2022 #105
I know you're not blaming Biden, but you ridiculously act as if... Silent3 Nov 2022 #107
Is the president responsible for the actions of his cabinet or not? Kaleva Nov 2022 #112
But Joe Blow down the street frogmarch Nov 2022 #90
Jimmy Carter said the USA is a plutocracy, Mysterian Nov 2022 #91
Let us first define RULE OF LAW. Grasswire2 Nov 2022 #93
I have been bdamomma Nov 2022 #97
Is this why republicans ran on democrats are weak on crime? Emile Nov 2022 #100
"Look forward, not back"? Grasswire2 Nov 2022 #110
 

GenXer47

(1,204 posts)
1. i hear ya my friend
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 05:28 PM
Nov 2022

I can only hope they are building the strongest case(s) possible so they can't lose. Stakes are high!

Beachnutt

(8,873 posts)
2. It's only dead for the politicians and the ultra rich
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 05:29 PM
Nov 2022

everybody else faces what some call justice unless you can bribe a judge or law official.

Girard442

(6,840 posts)
3. Merrick Garland is dotting "i"s and crossing "t"s.
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 05:32 PM
Nov 2022

So many "I"s and "t"s. So, so many. So many you wouldn't believe it.

Fiendish Thingy

(22,468 posts)
32. Do some research on failed seditious conspiracy prosecutions
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 07:22 PM
Nov 2022

Rachel Maddow’s “Ultra” podcast is a good place to start.

That story involved actual Nazi collaborators in Congress.

DOJ indicted before they were prepared, jury selection was a joke, and the judge had no control in the courtroom.

They were all acquitted- in the middle of WWII.

Caliman73

(11,767 posts)
4. You are just finding out now?
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 05:36 PM
Nov 2022

We have always had separate rules for the powerful and the wealthy in this country. Since the beginning. Since Jefferson Davis got 2 years in prison for the murder of over 350,000 Americans during the Civil War. Since Prescott Bush and his friends continued to do business with the Nazis during World War II. Since Nixon got away with scuttling the Vietnam Peace Talks to be Humphrey, since Watergate. Sure he resigned in disgrace, but what was ever done? Since Reagan and his people got away with going behind Carter's back to keep the hostages in Iran, then sold them weapons illegally, THEN gave weapons (again, illegally) to the Contras. Since Bush Jr. lied to Congress about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq...

Wealthy people, and people with connections have always had a better chance of getting away with murder, than regular people have of getting away with not paying a parking ticket.

LT Barclay

(3,176 posts)
13. Very good round up. Have you ever read any of these articles:
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 06:47 PM
Nov 2022
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/american-history-for-truthdiggers-a-once-always-and-future-empire/
Probably all stuff you already know, but I found the articles quite interesting. He was actually teaching history at West Point. I couldn't believe they didn't tar and feather him, but I did find another article where he talked about his experiences there.

LT Barclay

(3,176 posts)
69. Maybe this is the same link. I don't know. The site has been dead for a long time and it appears
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 10:19 PM
Nov 2022

to be up again. You might try a search for him as an author. He has a couple of books on amazon now.
Maj. Danny Sjursen.

https://www.truthdig.com/author/dsjursen/

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/american-history-for-truthdiggers-a-once-always-and-future-empire/

mountain grammy

(28,819 posts)
111. Thank you for these links..
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 04:52 PM
Nov 2022

and for the reminder. I used to read Truthdig often and got out of the habit. Now it's back on my bookmarks. Great articles.

PatrickforB

(15,383 posts)
43. Best link I've seen in a long time!
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 08:25 PM
Nov 2022

I've bookmarked it. I did know all of this, but it is really great to see it put down like this in a flowing narrative. Kind of keeps the ideas of Zinn and Chomsky alive for new generations.

PatrickforB

(15,383 posts)
114. Are you sure? Because Noam Chomsky is considered a giant in linguistics,
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 06:30 PM
Nov 2022

and has laid out much of the hidden truth about shareholder primacy capitalism.

If you actually look into Chomsky's role, he questioned the veracity of the book, Murder of a Gentle Land, because he felt that the book a) ignored the US role in creating the political situation that allowed the rise of the Khmer Rouge, and b) the tenor of the book was part of "a campaign to reconstruct the history of these years so as to place the role of the United States in a more favorable light."

Here is what Chomsky actually wrote: "When they speak of 'the murder of a gentle land,' they are not referring to B-52 attacks on villages or the systematic bombing and murderous ground sweeps by American troops or forces organized and supplied by the United States, in a land that had been largely removed from the conflict prior to the American attack. We do not pretend to know where the truth lies amidst these sharply conflicting assessments; rather, we again want to emphasize some crucial points. What filters through to the American public is a seriously distorted version of the evidence available, emphasizing alleged Khmer Rouge atrocities and downplaying or ignoring the crucial U.S. role, direct and indirect, in the torment that Cambodia has suffered."

Chomsky wrote this in 1977, three years after our disastrous defeat in Vietnam. You'll recall that it was Tricky Dicky that inserted troops in Cambodia and okayed the bombing. This too was a genocidal atrocity, but hey, we're Americans, you know.

That said, I have seen the pictures of the mountains of skulls 'built' from murdered victims of Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge, so genocide is genocide. I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying Chomsky is making a good point that a certain book seems to have been written as an apologetic for US involvement, and watered down our acts against the Cambodian people.

You know, we live in an age where the 'news' is corporate owned, and very much purveys the doctrine of American exceptionalism. Why? Because we have engaged in imperialism, and this republic itself is built on slavery, conquest and genocide. Chomsky and Zinn, as well as others like Naomi Klein, have tried to counter this 'group think' with some truth.

After looking into this, I think Chomsky was not denying that genocide happened in Cambodia. He just was taking issue with a book he considered an apology for US perfidy during the Vietnam era.It is not surprising that Chomsky got into a 'pissing contest' with these 'American exceptionalist' authors.

Bottom line, the powers that be in this culture often twist history to put the US in a good light. Read up on the CIA's involvement in Central and South American countries on behalf of our 'business interests.' Then consider the doctrine of Liberation Theology, which was a developed by Dominican priest Gustavo Guitierrez, and holds that sin is not only an individual thing, but that economic systems (capitalism) and governments can themselves be 'in sin,' i.e. evil systems. These evil systems victimize people by exploiting workers, and robbing public treasuries to line the pockets of billionaires and corporations.

I bring this up because you can see a similar phenomenon with 'academic' books written in the US on Liberation Theology, which dismiss the whole thing as being communist. Many times we see US academics and senior media people conflating socialism with the totalitarian dictatorships of the Soviet Union, Maoist China and Cambodia. And indeed, these dictatorships committed genocide on their peoples. Millions died in the old USSR and China during the five year plans.

But Chomsky? He disagreed with some guy who wrote a book that left out our role in creating the Khmer Rouge. As to Putin, I'm not sure what he said or did not say. But to dismiss a distinguished 93-year-old guy who has written dozens of books over a decades long career because he said something you disagree with results in me taking issue with your assertion.

 

Just A Box Of Rain

(5,104 posts)
115. He's a very cunning linguist
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 06:34 PM
Nov 2022

but his embrace of a genocidal depots makes him persona non grata in my book.

I suggest you dig a little deeper into Chomsky's history in that regard.



NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
26. We were literally founded by wealthy white business owners who wanted more profits.
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 07:18 PM
Nov 2022

And convinced farmers & laborers to fight for them.

ShazamIam

(3,057 posts)
53. Yes and when it came time to impose a tax to pay for the revolution it was on the small farmers,
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 09:08 PM
Nov 2022

by taxing corn whiskey, not the big slave holding landowner founder crowd, nor the merchants and traders in the NE, it was the family farmers who turned their corn to whiskey. Thus the Whiskey Rebellion.

lees1975

(6,958 posts)
5. Kicking this up.
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 05:54 PM
Nov 2022

How is it that Justice Thomas can even rule on a case involving his wife without a peep from the chief justice?

Two years? That's not long enough to build a case out of the overwhelming evidence set before the DOJ by Congress?

Apparently you can commit crimes and buy time and get away with it. I'm not apologizing for being impatient while Trump makes a mockery of justice.

 

jaxexpat

(7,794 posts)
40. He could get an amplifier and yell so loud Thomas could hear him well..
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 08:11 PM
Nov 2022

That way in about 50 years or so (if they put it on the fast track). Roberts would be investigated and convicted, maybe, for attempting to remedy the Thomas problem.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
6. :) I'd second a subforum just for headlines like this
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 06:06 PM
Nov 2022

if anyone wanted to start one?

Those visiting could vote for their favorite headline each week or month, the competition stimulating creativity. Some like Tacan might choose to specialize in themes, like our corrupt legal system and Garland. Perhaps we could have competitions for special categories where authors could enter multiple offerings.

And discussion of particularly entertaining headlines would be just plain fun.

CivicGrief

(254 posts)
7. It's absurd that the crime boss and insurrectionist acts with impunity and is a serious
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 06:12 PM
Nov 2022

contender for a presidential nomination for one of the major political parties.

Celerity

(54,006 posts)
47. +10000
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 08:36 PM
Nov 2022

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?




June 16, 2015



Celerity

(54,006 posts)
109. Yes. It is hard to believe that Trump has been a POTUS or candidate for 7 and a half years now.
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 04:25 PM
Nov 2022

Nightmarish.

Almost 30% of my time on this mortal coil, ffs.

I was 18 and living in Marina del Rey (Los Angeles, whilst I read for my MBA) when he took the Trump Tower escalator ride that fateful day in June 2015.

Seems a lifetime ago.

JudyM

(29,672 posts)
118. Too much of all of our lives!
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 08:45 PM
Nov 2022

You were working on a grad degree straight out of high school? Or you flew through college early?

Celerity

(54,006 posts)
119. I started uni in London a month or so before I turned 15 in 2011. Skipped multiple grades in the UK,
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 09:04 PM
Nov 2022

plus I had private tutors and mentors since I was 3 and 4, and especially from 6 and 7 years years old forward (on and off, both in Hong Kong for a couple years, and then, more intensively and for a much longer duration, in London). I was incredibly lucky to have parents who both could afford to and had the willingness to indulge and cultivate my intellectual pursuits from a very early age. I am forever in their debt.

That said, I am a slacker compared to Ronan Farrow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Farrow

As a child, Farrow skipped grades in school and took courses with the Center for Talented Youth at Johns Hopkins University. At age 11, he began his studies at Bard College at Simon's Rock, later transferring to Bard College for a Bachelor of Arts in philosophy. He graduated at age 15, the youngest to do so at that institution.

He entered Yale Law School, from which he received a Juris Doctor in 2009. He later passed the New York State Bar examination. Selected as a Rhodes Scholar, Farrow earned a Doctor of Philosophy in political science from the University of Oxford, where he was a student of Magdalen College.

JudyM

(29,672 posts)
120. Fantastic head start!
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 09:44 PM
Nov 2022

Notwithstanding Ronan’s. You’re lucky, certainly, but also did the work and earned it. Love it when good things happen to good people…

Mr. Ected

(9,713 posts)
10. Too much crime, not enough time
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 06:44 PM
Nov 2022

Due process is the slowest process in the world.

There are so many of them, the lawbreakers, and so few of the guys in white hats.

The wheels of justice turn slowly, just slowly enough to all but guarantee that justice may never be served.

JoeOtterbein

(7,866 posts)
11. Sorry....
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 06:46 PM
Nov 2022

...but our entire justice and law enforcement system is made to protect the wealthy and their servants, not prosecute them.

Iwasthere

(3,508 posts)
15. Serious crimes have been committed. SERIOUS CRIMES!!!!
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 06:51 PM
Nov 2022

I am so sick of waiting and waiting. This country needs to heal. The orange thing should NOT be able run

wnylib

(25,355 posts)
18. WOW. What an uplifting thread.
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 06:59 PM
Nov 2022

I want to thank everyone for waiting until after the elections to push this. Prior to elections it might have diminished Dem voter turnout.

wnylib

(25,355 posts)
31. I've been in western NY for almost 40 years, but
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 07:21 PM
Nov 2022

I am a native of Erie, PA. My ex was from western NY. Met him when he was a grad student in Erie.

lefthandedskyhook

(1,177 posts)
19. The people still have the power
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 07:11 PM
Nov 2022

Trouble happens when the people are methodically confused as voters have been for decades. Sometimes they "wake up" and form a majority even the so called supreme court can't ignore. Yes we have illegally appointed unqualified criminals presiding over our courts. Especially our highest court. What else is new?

Those who understand RICO cases also understand that Garland is doing it by the book. It is very important to be precise in this case as we have never indicted a former president. Agent Orange is going down hard. We can enjoy the show now. Other seated members of congress and the Senate were also reportedly involved in planning the insurrection. Please read 14th Amendment Section 3 regarding their eligibility to remain in office.

Proof will come I hope against all of the obvious traitors to our country. That's what will be needed in courts of law, not feelings and speculation


dchill

(42,660 posts)
57. That was nothing even close to justice.
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 09:13 PM
Nov 2022

I don't have to tell you anything to prove my point. Do you have a TV? Turn it on.

JT45242

(3,930 posts)
20. When a rich powerful white dude faces real prison time for Jan 6 , I'll believe
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 07:13 PM
Nov 2022

I'll believe in the rule of law when the first rich, powerful, white dude is sentenced to a ling prison term and barred from federal office.

I'll believe there is rule of law when beer bong is indicted for either tax fraud or bribery for the hundreds of thousands of dollars if debt that disappeared.

Until that happy, garland is a powerless tool of the federalist society and other powerful interests.

Fiendish Thingy

(22,468 posts)
27. Where is Merrick Garland? Where IS the Dept of Justice?
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 07:18 PM
Nov 2022

Just down the street from the White House…

950 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20530, United States

Mr. Evil

(3,449 posts)
33. Maybe that's why the show Law & Order was so popular.
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 07:22 PM
Nov 2022

It's the only place where anyone could see the rich and powerful get prosecuted and convicted.

Too damn bad it's fictional.

FakeNoose

(40,769 posts)
38. I choose to believe that AG Garland does want to prosecute the criminals
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 07:59 PM
Nov 2022

He's taking his time because he agreed with Pres. Biden (when he received his appointment) that it cannot be done for political gain, or to appear as tit-for-tat. Now that the midterms are over, he will proceed with all due haste.

I truly believe this.

Whether the politics of the DoJ is working against him, I couldn't say. After reading Geoffrey Berman's book recently, I believe there are Republican-appointed attorneys in the DoJ who still support the Constitution. (Needless to say, they also oppose Chump's efforts to return to the White House.) Maybe not all of them, but enough of them do. The ones that don't need to be fired.

It's time for the Dept. of Justice to go to work.

Bread and Circuses

(1,760 posts)
41. DOJ asleep at the wheel . I am so angry
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 08:15 PM
Nov 2022

You're correct!

Merrick Garland is sitting on his hands. Why do these insurrectionists, liars, corrupt people get a free pass? Is the DOJ afraid of bringing the hammer down? It sure looks like it.
The clock has been on midnight for three months....now it is 12:01 AM.

IMO, it's too late.

Rudy is not going to be indicted either.

The entire Trump Crime Syndicate is living high and laughing at how stupid DOJ is.

Yep, Dems did a good job holding the line at the mid-term.

There is no Justice. It's dead. I'd like to scream out loud many bad words.

oldtime dfl_er

(7,168 posts)
42. He can be crossing his T's and dotting his I's
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 08:22 PM
Nov 2022

on 200 other crimes and still indicting on number 201. There are SO MANY that surely he can find one that's pretty simple and straightforward to start with. A starter crime so to speak. Does he have to wait until he has ALL of them nailed down???

 

Silent3

(15,909 posts)
72. That does to seem to be the really weird assumption behind the way so many...
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 10:36 PM
Nov 2022

...people talk about this. So, yeah, I guess a real criminal mastermind should plan to break lots and lots of laws all at the same time, since, gosh, they all have to be investigated in one big batch, even if that takes a decade or so. Gives you lots of time to run free and for prosecutors and the public to lose interest in going after you.

AZLD4Candidate

(6,744 posts)
44. Rule of Law has only applied to certain people in certain situation.
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 08:26 PM
Nov 2022

You know. . .the poor, the middle class, minorities, and those conservatives despise.

Rich, powerful, Christian, influential, mass entertaining, and the equivalents it's the rule of money.

This is how it always has been. Remember there was no rule of law for Aaron Burr.

FirstLight

(15,771 posts)
45. I agree...
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 08:28 PM
Nov 2022

I am SICK with this bullshit. How can the MFer even run again after being impeached?

There's obviously nobody at the wheel when it comes to justice. I cant even believe that the damn motion to block his testifying for the J6 Committee is still not going anywhere. WTAF?

This whole timeline is just mind boggling... everything is going to shit and we're stuck on the train as it flies off the cliff. Don't worry about paying off your student loans, everything will be ashes in a few years. (climate, war, overpopulation, more pandemics, inflation, etcetcetc ad nauseum)

 

Genki Hikari

(1,766 posts)
46. The DOJ can't arbitrarily indict anyone
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 08:29 PM
Nov 2022

Only grand juries can indict.

Federal grand juries usually meet once a week, for about 4-5 hours, and can be impaneled for up to 3 years. If you have a big case, it takes longer to get an indictment under those circumstances.

former9thward

(33,424 posts)
48. Simply not true.
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 08:42 PM
Nov 2022

Maybe you should talk to people like me that have dealt with prosecutors and Grand Juries for years. Prosecutors control the GJs -- not the other way around. If a prosecutor wants an indictment a GJ will give it to them.

lees1975

(6,958 posts)
68. These grand juries have had plenty of time
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 10:06 PM
Nov 2022

and they have plenty of evidence. They're not going to indict because people like Trump never get indicted. They buy their way out or intimidate their way out.

Democrats will lose a lot of support and votes in 2024 if he isn't indicted and convicted. Bad news but that's the way it is. He tried to overthrow the government and the news media is covering it like its a legitimate event.

Response to Tacan (Original post)

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
55. You do know that Democratic President BIDEN appointed Garland
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 09:10 PM
Nov 2022

that Democratic President Biden heads the executive branch the DoJ is part of, right? That though our principles don't allow Biden to actively interfere in DoJ cases Biden could certainly remove Garland if he believed he wasn't performing as they agreed when he was interviewed. But hasn't. Right?

Since you've been very concerned with this subject for a long time now, I assume you know that this "corrupt Biden's DoJ and Biden's AG" meme is widely spread by anti-democracy elements AND anti-Democratic elements, enemies both domestic and foreign, including foreign states like Russia, China, Iran, NKorea, etc.

Does everyone else, though? Here on DU we don't mention that President Biden's the man in charge, but maybe that should not fool anyone into missing the rest of the toxic influence narrative. Or the kind of political interests spreading the meme wide elsewhere that "the rule of law is dead" under the Democratic Party.

 

Silent3

(15,909 posts)
74. None of the very justified impatience and doubt is an accusation of outright corruption
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 10:40 PM
Nov 2022

It's an indictment of long-standing dysfunction in our legal system that's far bigger, and has a much longer and deeper history, than the Biden administration.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
84. :) Old saying: "Can't kid a kidder or play a player."
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 11:40 AM
Nov 2022

This is a POLITICAL SOCIAL MEDIA forum, Silent3. Of course, most of our posts are earnest, liberal oriented discussion by the loyal, high-minded Democrats this forum was created for. But a lot more is brought here than that anyway.

After all, we can see Russia from here -- and vice versa.

Hi, RNC et al.

And of course special greetings to all those from the anti-democratic, anti-Democratic, authoritarian/populist left who interest themselves so deeply in our party's wellbeing. I often wonder where we'd be and what we'd be doing without them.

 

Silent3

(15,909 posts)
96. So your attitude about posts on DU is that we can't afford discussion of things...
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 03:22 PM
Nov 2022

...that might, just might, show even a shadow of criticism of things like the DoJ, which isn't even a Democratic political organization, if a Democratic might conceivably be blamed for what goes on inside that organization, because DU is "social media", and therefore should be used purely for only uplifting promotional purposes?

While I don't doubt there are a few real professional (or even amateur) trolls that get onto DU, it's the height of ridiculous paranoia to view every post you think is too negative as part of an organized infiltration.

I mean, have you ever met people? They're known for having a lot to grouse about, without needing an agenda or mission of sabotage to act upon.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
106. Please don't "strawman" my comments.
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 04:17 PM
Nov 2022

I said what I said, and I don't argue one side of nonexistent black-or-white non-realities. This is the real world.

My intent is not to accuse posters of malfeasance but to remind people to question whether weaponized narrative deceits may be targeted at and infiltrating our forum from outside.

And, of course, they always are -- on EVERY issue, not just this one.

Have a nice evening.

 

Silent3

(15,909 posts)
108. Please then, don't, act as if you should be declaring the intent and effect...
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 04:20 PM
Nov 2022

...of honestly intended complaints about the DoJ when you know no such thing. Otherwise, you become as ridiculous as what you consider a straw man characterization.

 

Marius25

(3,213 posts)
60. Yup. Contrary to this forum's views, Garland is a failure.
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 09:18 PM
Nov 2022

He has no interest in holding these people accountable. I do not believe Trump will be indicted, and even if he is he won't be convicted.

Clarence Thomas will never be prosecuted. Nor will any of the other insurrectionists. Andy Biggs helped plan the insurrection, and he put his hat in the ring for Speaker of the House.

Initech

(108,018 posts)
66. Even though they are not the ruling party, conservatives are drunk with power and out of control.
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 09:24 PM
Nov 2022

Too much influence from AM radio, megachurches, and Fox News brought us here.

 

newdayneeded

(2,493 posts)
78. Did you guys hear that Boeing 777 take off?
Tue Nov 15, 2022, 11:05 PM
Nov 2022

Right after trumps speech Garland flew to the Bahamas for 3 weeks. On the plane he let out a huge sigh, saying "whew, now we don't have to pretend we're investigating Mr. Donald Trump anymore!!"

Blue Owl

(58,625 posts)
83. Sure is looking that way
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 10:52 AM
Nov 2022

I would LOVE IT if Garland snapped into action, but at this point, maybe it's better to let Diarrhea Donny destroy the GOP first...

llashram

(6,269 posts)
86. rule of law...dead?
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 12:38 PM
Nov 2022

not yet for some and others? Problematic. Because of the $$$ rule. And this realization is only when one stops suspending reality. Suspend reality and yeah everything is rosy. For all. Which in my book, since I started paying attention in the late '60s, is bullshit. Yet in this country now, since the fascists have been given our message, we can still keep letting the PTB know that citizens out here know the truth about race, wealth or lack of. Progress has been made since I saw my first "strange fruit" in Georgia in the late '50s.

Low-life POS Florida man can delay, delay, delay. His money-grifting ways have not stopped in the 7 years he's been on the national stage. And after last night, many many $$$ will again flow into his coffers. Still many deluded people out there. And deSantis will be just as bad as a fascist candidate of the American Nazi Party

I still counsel myself to be patient though. All of the t's must be crossed and I's dotted. We will see what consequences TPOSFG must face for his and his family's crimes. We will see, guaranteed.

 

Silent3

(15,909 posts)
99. What, pray tell, is the relationship between doubting the DoJ and Biden "not being up to the task"?
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 03:36 PM
Nov 2022

You ask that question as if it's a given the two are inextricably linked. They're not. Biden respects the separation that needs to exist between the the DoJ and the executive.

That has an unfortunate outcome in this case, but the impetus to prosecute Trump and his cronies has to come from within the DoJ itself. It most certainly cannot be the result of Biden personally urging them to do so.

 

Silent3

(15,909 posts)
102. That's not a very precise tool for how the entire DoJ reponds
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 03:50 PM
Nov 2022

Nor would it make Biden a bad president if he couldn't predict the future in every detail of how Garland would perform.

Now that Garland has been picked, it would be a far more overtly political and intrusive act for Biden to fire him just because we aren't getting desired indictments out of him.

Criticism of the DoJ and how it performs is at most very faint and indirect criticism of Biden. Only a consistent pattern of bad personnel picks can form a reasonable basis for criticism of Biden's leadership.

Kaleva

(40,285 posts)
103. Biden is responsible for the performance of his Administration
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 03:54 PM
Nov 2022

Or are we going to be like Trump and never accept responsibility? It's always someone else's fault.

Cabinet members, including the AG, serve at the pleasure of the President. If the President is content with their performance, they stay. If not, they should be dismissed

 

Silent3

(15,909 posts)
104. There's a huge difference between Trump-like lack of responsibility
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 03:59 PM
Nov 2022

And treating Biden as if he's directly to blame for the specific actions of his every appointment, especially in an area like the DoJ where he must be very hands-off (again, if he's not as awful as Trump).

Now, if you want to hold Biden responsible to ridiculous "gotcha" criteria about responsibility, go nuts, but don't fucking parse every criticism of the DoJ by other people as if they process the world and the concept of responsibility in such an absurd way.

Kaleva

(40,285 posts)
105. I'm not blaming either Biden or Garland
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 04:08 PM
Nov 2022

I trust them to do the best they can.

However, one cannot just be critical of one cabinet member and totally ignore the person ultimately responsible for the actions and performance of the Administration.

If Biden believes it's critical , for the greater good if this country, that Trump be brought to justice, then maybe Garland should be replaced. If not, then Biden can take a hands off approach and let Garland decide what is the best course of action.

 

Silent3

(15,909 posts)
107. I know you're not blaming Biden, but you ridiculously act as if...
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 04:17 PM
Nov 2022

...any criticism of the DoJ by other people is those people blaming Biden.

I'm impatiently trying to explain that you shouldn't impose that unfounded linkage on what other people intend and think.

Grasswire2

(13,849 posts)
93. Let us first define RULE OF LAW.
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 03:12 PM
Nov 2022

Rule of law is a principle under which all persons, institutions, and entities are accountable to laws that are:

Publicly promulgated
Equally enforced
Independently adjudicated
And consistent with international human rights principles.

https://www.uscourts.gov/educational-resources/educational-activities/overview-rule-law

The problem here and now in the U.S. is that second item. The law, in re Donald J. Trump, is not equally enforced. Never has been. He is above the law. And the same is true of some who have acted on his behalf.

Why is that?
Who is not enforcing laws applicable to his actions?

We (or anyone) cannot say that America is a nation of laws and that no man is above the law as long as Donald J. Trump is not held accountable for his crimes.

This means either 1. America is a Banana Republic, or 2. a criminal element (a crime syndicate?) is in power that refuses to uphold the laws of the land. Further degradation of the laws will occur until the party in power summons up the strength to rectify the situation at hand.

What's it going to be? Are we governed by the rule of law? Or are laws only for some to obey?

bdamomma

(69,354 posts)
97. I have been
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 03:23 PM
Nov 2022

so upset today, about this POS throwing his name in again. Where is the Justice?????? Where is Merrick Garland on all of this???

Just when I started to have faith this happens, are we going to have non stop Maga crap from the media now????.
And boy, are the e-mails coming to me, for donations I'm tapped out.



I can't wait to listen to my Randi Rhodes podcast for today.

Grasswire2

(13,849 posts)
110. "Look forward, not back"?
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 04:31 PM
Nov 2022

It's been a Dem trend for decades.

RW and other Republicans will not stop until they are made to experience significant pain. Period.

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