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Wed Nov 16, 2022, 11:01 PM

The Longest and Most Contentious Speaker Election in House History... 1856, or NOW ??

Could history repeat itself here ?


"At the conclusion of the longest and most contentious Speaker election in House history, the House elected Representative Nathaniel Banks of Massachusetts as its presiding officer for the 34th Congress (1855–1857). Sectional conflict over slavery and a rising anti-immigrant mood in the nation contributed to a poisoned and deteriorating political climate. As a sign of the factionalism then existing in the House, more than 21 individuals initially vied for the Speaker’s post when the Members first gathered in December, 1855. After two months and 133 ballots, the House finally chose Representative Banks by a vote of 103 to 100 over Representative William Aiken of South Carolina. Banks, a member of both the nativist American (or “Know-Nothing”) Party and the Free Soil Party, served a term as Speaker before Democrats won control of the chamber in the 35th Congress (1857–1859). Banks retired from the House to serve as governor of Massachusetts."

https://history.house.gov/Historical-Highlights/1851-1900/The-longest-and-most-contentious-Speaker-election-in-its-history/
also https://www.politico.com/story/2009/02/house-ends-longest-ever-speaker-fight-feb-2-1856-018286

That speaker election was complicated by the conflict over slavery. The Republican party was brand new, and had no majority. The Whig party was dying off, with most of the Northern Whigs folded into the Republican party. The Democratic party at the time was split into northern and southern pro-slavery wings. No faction had a majority.

Because of my personal interest and study of the civil war and the period leading up to it, the situation today, with its very slim GOP margin in the House, made me recall this situation from history, where the House failed to elect a speaker and organize for several months.


“There are, by my count, at least eight to ten Republicans who are adamant that they will not support Kevin McCarthy for Speaker," @JonKarl says of possible GOP House majority. "This is going to be a long, brutal process when they...make that vote." https://t.co/8eqtjqhWmT pic.twitter.com/nc1i7a3QuB— This Week (@ThisWeekABC) November 13, 2022

If that is accurate, and those 8 to 10 Republicans exist who will refuse to support McCarthy for speaker, and they hold the line-- McCarthy cannot be elected speaker without buying them off somehow.... he will not have 218 votes.

OR, Democrats could hold the balance of power in the election of the next speaker. (Votes for speaker do not happen in a party vaccuum-- the Democrats also get to vote.)

If McCarthy really wants to be speaker, he may have to make some kind of deal with enough Democrats to get him to 218!
(I am not advocating either for or against that... just laying out the possibilities here.... but I don't have much faith that McCarthy would keep his promises. I hope that the GOP Freedom Caucus is successful in changing the rules, so that any "motion to vacate the speakership" will again be legal. That would certainly complicate matters.)

Also, it has been noted elsewhere... that it might be possible to elect Liz Cheney as Speaker of the House, if Democrats could find a handful of Republicans to vote for her, along with them. (The speaker does not have to be an elected member of the House-- and just think of how that would make the heads of the Trumptards EXPLODE-- not to mention that of TBL *The Big Loser* himself!)

If the contest drags on without a result for a while, I would suggest that those Republican votes for Liz Cheney might be found within the New York GOP delegation, especially those who won in majority-Biden districts...


The consequences of failing to elect a speaker of the House, include inability to organize it, inability to assign members to committees-- basically everything becomes a complete standstill, so far as I know...



To me, the possibilities of this situation are DELICIOUS!

20 replies, 1365 views

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Reply The Longest and Most Contentious Speaker Election in House History... 1856, or NOW ?? (Original post)
DemocraticPatriot Nov 16 OP
DemocraticPatriot Nov 16 #1
Sneederbunk Nov 16 #2
DemocraticPatriot Nov 17 #16
Sneederbunk Nov 17 #18
ColinC Nov 16 #3
DemocraticPatriot Nov 16 #4
ColinC Nov 17 #5
ColinC Nov 17 #6
DemocraticPatriot Nov 17 #10
iemanja Nov 17 #7
ColinC Nov 17 #8
iemanja Nov 17 #11
ColinC Nov 17 #12
DemocraticPatriot Nov 17 #15
DemocraticPatriot Nov 17 #17
iemanja Nov 17 #19
DemocraticPatriot Nov 17 #9
DemocraticPatriot Nov 17 #13
grantcart Nov 17 #14
onenote Nov 17 #20

Response to DemocraticPatriot (Original post)

Wed Nov 16, 2022, 11:15 PM

1. There is no DU sub-forum for HISTORY ??

DISAPPOINTING !!!!


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Response to DemocraticPatriot (Original post)

Wed Nov 16, 2022, 11:19 PM

2. Bobbin Boy.

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Response to Sneederbunk (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 09:04 AM

16. Huh?

sorry, I don't get that...


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Response to DemocraticPatriot (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 10:17 AM

18. Banks was Bobbin Boy

Banks was forced to take a job as a bobbin boy at a local textile mill. He received the name “Bobbin Boy Banks” and the name stayed with him for his entire life ...

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Response to DemocraticPatriot (Original post)

Wed Nov 16, 2022, 11:23 PM

3. Can you be speaker with a plurality?

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Response to ColinC (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 16, 2022, 11:37 PM

4. NO. That was the problem in 1856.

There will be NO speaker of the house, until someone can get 218 votes...
and Democrats also get to vote.



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Response to DemocraticPatriot (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 12:02 AM

5. Lol we're not gonna have a speaker

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Response to DemocraticPatriot (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 12:03 AM

6. Watch them make Barack Obama speaker

😂 😂 😂

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Response to ColinC (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 12:14 AM

10. HA !!!!!!

I would LOVE to see his name voted for among Democrats in the early votes-- just to troll the hell out of all those racist Republicans!!!


Of course, getting even ONE vote out of the new Republican house would seen to be an impossibility, but what the fuck!!!


I do believe that this upcoming vote for the Speaker of the House, will be the first that requires more than one vote (for lack of a majority vote) in many, many years...


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Response to DemocraticPatriot (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 12:03 AM

7. McCarthy will be the speaker. nt

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Response to iemanja (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 12:07 AM

8. You think he can get the whole caucus to vote for him?

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Response to ColinC (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 12:44 AM

11. He'll get the majority

They aren't going to wait for the formal vote before the whole House to vote. The Republicans will decide within their own caucus first. He's already headed off one challenge. I don't see why he wouldn't sustain another. The loony right makes a lot of noise, but the GOP doesn't want them in charge. He will of course have to make compromises, which probably means committee chairs.

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Response to iemanja (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 12:47 AM

12. Sounds reasonable

But judging from past speaker elections with far more robust majorities, we have seen these decisions take days. With such a slim majority, I’m not too confident they will be able to make a swift decision.

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Response to iemanja (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 01:37 AM

15. Personally, I am sending emails to all the 'House Freedom Caucus' members...

urging them to not become "Republicans In Name Only"---

whatever that really means, lol


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Response to iemanja (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 09:08 AM

17. The GOP House caucus can only vote for a speaker nominee, on their own...

Then it has to go before the full house, where they need 218 votes to elect the speaker.

If 8-10 'freedom caucus members' refuse to support him, they won't have the votes they need...


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Response to DemocraticPatriot (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 12:14 PM

19. They aren't going to do that

They don't want Democrats controlling the House.

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Response to iemanja (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 12:08 AM

9. Maybe. Maybe not...

To win without any Democratic votes, has has to completely lay down in front of the far-right 'House Freedom Caucus"...

Yes, I suspect that will be his first effort to secure the votes...


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Response to DemocraticPatriot (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 01:25 AM

13. Kicking myself

because of the "ageists" in another thread.

Damn, I am not even 'that old'---
but I would have objected to lazy OPs even when I was younger.

"Ovaltine" ?? Your mother...


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Response to DemocraticPatriot (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 01:31 AM

14. A Republican rep from Nebraska said he could work with Ds

if McCarthy is not elected and the alternative is a RW guy.

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Response to DemocraticPatriot (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2022, 01:16 PM

20. It might be "possible" to elect Jimmy Kimmel speaker.

We'll, if it's "possible" Liz Cheney could be speaker, then its possible Jimmy could be. The possibilities for both are equal. There is not a single Republican member of the House -- not one -- that would vote for Cheney. And I doubt very much there is any reason for Democrats to vote for her either. Keep in mind, that if McCarthy doesn't end up as speaker (and I wouldn't bet against him) he will, in all likelihood, end up as Majority Leader, given the wide majority support he had in the caucus to be speaker, the only way he would drop out of the race for speaker is if he was guaranteed the Majority Leader spot. And that will give him significant say in committee assignments. He still has the most leverage.

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