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Ocelot II
(130,516 posts)oldtime dfl_er
(7,176 posts)to force the narrowest of paths and whatever other dirty crap he did behind the scenes in the name of "landing the plane".
Cha
(319,063 posts)Smith and Mueller would pause to think about that.
I'd be wrong.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)And you expect Smith to wrap up well before the next administration because .
Ocelot II
(130,516 posts)I'm just taking note of the fact that this guy won't be operating under the shadow of an AG and an administration that will do its best to hinder his work. What happens next is anyone's guess. I'm just going to sit back and watch because that's all I can do.
ShazzieB
(22,582 posts)These are my exact same thoughts. Nice to to know I'm not alone!
ShazzieB
(22,582 posts)This is NOT the same movie. It's a completely different one, snd wr don't know how it's going to turn out yet.
samsingh
(18,426 posts)relax, mueller's got this.
mueller will stop trump.
mueller was a con artist and betrayed his oath.
brush
(61,033 posts)imagined him to have. His team did yeoman work but bully Barr sabotaged it with his highly misleading and untrue summary and the blacking out and failure to release the full, unredacted document.
It still hasn't been released so don't blame Mueller and his team. Blame toady Barr and the orange, megalomaniacal
asshole he fronted for.
Autumn
(48,961 posts)brush
(61,033 posts)blaming Muellers?
Autumn
(48,961 posts)Mueller and his team are no longer in charge. "Blame toady Barr and the orange, megalomaniacal
asshole he fronted for." They aren't in charge either.
brush
(61,033 posts)and his team did a poor job. My post was to disavow that notion, not to quibble over it's release. But you can do that all you want.
Autumn
(48,961 posts)any reply if you don't have one.
brush
(61,033 posts)Autumn
(48,961 posts)asshole he fronted for.
Barr didn't release it. Barr is gone ( except for being all over the talk shows) and Mueller's report still hasn't been released. I blamed them when they were in office for hiding it but there is no reason to blame them now. The report is still buried.
Here it is, still hidden. I find that odd. Justice delayed is justice denied. That investigation is long over. We deserve to know what happened. Half the country still believes that Russia had nothing to do with Trumps election.
brush
(61,033 posts)to disavow that Mueller and his team produced bullshit.
Autumn
(48,961 posts)brush
(61,033 posts)to the post I responded too. Is that that hard to understand?
Autumn
(48,961 posts)asshole he fronted for.
That is what I responded to. Barr and FFF are gone. It still has not been released.
brush
(61,033 posts)Autumn
(48,961 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)day...different story now. I fail to see how folks don't see that. Now, I don't know if Trump will be indicted for the insurrection... I don't if the evidence is sufficient. I have not seen it all. But I do think he will be indicted for the classified documents and possibly in Georgia. Time will tell.
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)Can you link me to the unredacted Mueller report?
Ah, I guess nobody in the Biden administration has gotten around to that yet.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)from Mar A Lago
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)You have a point there.
Lettuce Be
(2,355 posts)Had we not had a corrupt AG, there would have been a different outcome.
czarjak
(13,639 posts)Autumn
(48,961 posts)Russia did or did not do. Odd that he hasn't. Or not.
SoCalDavidS
(10,599 posts)Regardless, AG Garland isn't going to indict TFG.
MerryBlooms
(12,248 posts)We get glimmers of hope, but never anything of substance. We're investigating! Grand juries! For years!
I am almost 60. I can take myself out by sleeping wrong quicker than any criminal case we'll see on tru.p. God forbid I sneeze wrong! Lord help me.
secondwind
(16,903 posts)SoCalDavidS
(10,599 posts)He has NEVER been held accountable for anything he's done during his miserable life.
If AG Garland wanted to indict him, he has more than enough evidence to do so.
I was not surprised at all by the Special Counsel appointment. When I heard it being floated, I KNEW that was going to be his next course of action.
He has NEVER been held accountable his entire life.
America has a history of talking a good game, but in the end, it NEVER pursues criminal charges against those in politics who are powerful or prominent enough. Indicting an ex-President would be HUGE, and I don't see it happening.
I've seen this movie before, Charlie Brown never kicks the football, and I'll believe in accountability when I see it.
He has NEVER suffered any consequences his entire life.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)the 11 circuit court hasn't yet ruled on the DOJ's appeal of the appointment of the Special Master -- which has tied up thousands of the documents needed for the case. Those documents provide the needed context for whatever Trump's assertions will be about the classified documents they've already obtained.
The only thing worse than having to wait for the prosecution would be to rush it and end up with Trump winning a not-guilty plea.
SoCalDavidS
(10,599 posts)Almost 2 full years ago now. Still not enough for them to indict him?
And if all they're waiting for is the appeal of Special Master appointment, then why the need for a Special Counsel?
All this bullshit merely proves my point. All TFG has done his whole fucking life is DELAY, DELAY, DELAY. And guess what? It works.
He'll NEVER be indicted. I will throw a fucking party if it ever happens. Believe me, I'd LOVE to see it. But I do not expect it, and would be willing to wager money that it won't happen. Our "justice" system is a joke, for those who are special enough.
Thinking he'll be held accountable only makes me Fucking Angry when it doesn't happen, so I don't get my hopes up.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)and Garland ALSO has to manage a department with 150,000 employees.
Smith won't have any cases to focus on except Trump's.
SoCalDavidS
(10,599 posts)But I've lived long enough in America to not hold my breath. I'm tired of being Charlie Brown.
rampartc
(5,835 posts)if trump is ever indicted. remember fitzmas?
my theory is that trump inherited roy cohn's polaroids and acquired epstein's video collection. added to pecker's national enquirer files trump has kompromat on anyone who could actually finish him.
Meowmee
(9,212 posts)I also would be happy if it happens but I dont see him ever being held truly accountable. No sign of indictments and that is only the first step. Ffs america you are allowing this fascist, murdering pos to run AGAIN for prez. What the hell is wrong with you? You have failed. And it has cost millions of americans their lives.
Deminpenn
(17,504 posts)He had to pay 25M in restitution to people who got duped by Trump University which was shut down.
Legal action also forced the Trump Foundation to close for self-dealing.
There's currently a civil trial going on in NYS that could result in the demise of the entire Trump Organization.
Manhattan DA has restarted the investigation into Trump's role in the Stormy Daniels hush money payments.
Jamastiene
(38,206 posts)I don't think anyone is ever going to hold him accountable.
ShazzieB
(22,582 posts)That's your opinion, which you're entitled to. Some of us have different opinions, which we also are entitled to. How about you do you, and we do us?
Seriously, having different opinions is fine with me. I'm not interested in arguing over who's right, because (no matter how sure some people are of the outcome), the fact is, we're talking about predicting the future here, which means we don't know yet.
I've never insisted that everything is going to turn out fine. I don't think Smith's wearing a Superman suit, and I didn't think Mueller was, either. All I'm saying is, "It's not over till it's over." That has always been my position, and it still is. I don't care if you or anyone else agrees with me.
I wish we could all just respect each other's opinions and quit trying to change each other's minds. If it does turn out the way you're expecting, you have my permission to post all over DU about how you were right and we were wrong. And if by some miracle, it turns out differently, hopefully we'll all be too busy celebrating to do anything else.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)a GOP president in 24. The only thing we should be doing is preparing to battle for the presidency in 24. If we can knock down Trump then we should. But I am focused on 24.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)I heard all the negativity before the election...people just knew it was a red wave, why look at the polls. It wasn't true and I suspect what you say is untrue also...or at least unknown.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)NewHendoLib
(61,857 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Trump is a different story, I think he may very well be charged. I have to tell you though I don't if we will find a jury that will convict him...all it takes is one Trumper. I am pleased to have Trump out of office and on the run with various cases against him. I believe that Trump is suffering mightily from losing the White House and that makes me smile. I also believe if we charge Trump, it will be like impeachment...I assume now every future president will be impeached.
herding cats
(20,049 posts)It's all the same, nothing will ever change or be better.
Through me you pass into the city of woe:
Through me you pass into eternal pain:
Through me among the people lost for aye.
Justice the founder of my fabric mov'd:
To rear me was the task of power divine,
Supremest wisdom, and primeval love.
Before me things create were none, save things
Eternal, and eternal I endure.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
I'm not yet ready to give in to the gnashing of our teeth, putting on sackcloth and covering ourselves in ashes, phase just yet.
tavernier
(14,443 posts)I think I need an extra large glass of fresh squeezed sunny OJ this morning after reading that
maybe with a dollop of vodka.
Phoenix61
(18,828 posts)SoCalDavidS
(10,599 posts)Don't criticize someone for pointing out that fact.
I say TFG will NEVER be held accountable. I'll be the first one to admit I was wrong IF he ever is. But I ain't holding my breath.
RussBLib
(10,635 posts)Lots of people get held accountable for their actions.
Wah wah wah!
Sometimes justice is slow. Sometimes fast.
SoCalDavidS
(10,599 posts)But TFG and all of those around him, won't be.
I have posted that he won't be so many times, that I'll gladly come back and post multiple times if proven wrong.
I expect the same from those who have insisted, argued, and said just as many times that he Will be.
I saw so many, some quite prominent DU posters, who in April 2021, said Matt Gaetz would be indicted. Now that it's been stated that he won't be, Crickets from those same posters.
Admitting being wrong is not easy, but I will be more than glad to do so if there is even the slightest bit of accountability.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Phoenix61
(18,828 posts)pnwmom
(110,260 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 22, 2022, 02:06 AM - Edit history (1)
besides the fact that Smith won't have to work under a hostile Attorney General and President.
Smith doesn't have to start an investigation from square 1. He has already signed an important filing with the 11th circuit court about tomorrow's hearing, asserting that he's read all the case filings and agrees with them. This means Smith won't be the cause of any delay in the Mar a lago case.
Smith has recent prosecutorial experience, unlike Mueller. He even has experience in successfully prosecuting a stolen-government-documents case.
Smith hasn't come out of retirement to take the position, or just left a cushy private sector job. He's twenty years younger than Mueller and has energy to spare. (He gets up every morning before his family in order to get laps in.)
Both Garland and Smith have already made statements asserting that Smith's coming on board won't slow anything down -- and Laurence Tribe's opinion, which is worth heeding, is that it will speed things up. Smith won't have to divide his focus between managing the Trump-related cases and the rest of a department of 150,000 employees. He'll be laser focused on the Trump cases.
tavernier
(14,443 posts)This one sounds like it too has promise.
Cha
(319,063 posts)you're insulting those who don't think like you do.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Cha
(319,063 posts)Love ya back
💙
ShazzieB
(22,582 posts)You just put into words something that has been bugging me, and that is this: an awful lot of these posts about how there is absolutely no possibility that Trump will ever be held accountable for anything whatsoever (etc.) have an insulting undertone, and that's unnecessary.
I understand why some people are pessimistic. I really do. But like I said in another comment, we're talking about predicting the future here. Even though some may believe certain things are a foregone conclusion, no one actually knows yet, so we're really just talking about our personal opinions. Those who feel there is no hope have a right to their opinion, and those of us who don't share the certainty that ALL hope should be abandoned ALSO have a right to our opinion.
I really wish we could show a little more respect for each other's opinions and *gasp* agree to disagree, instead of trying to convince each other who's "right" and who's "wrong."
Personally, I don't really care about convincing anyone who's "right" or "wrong." All I want is to be able to watch how this thing plays out without being subjected to any lectures about how "obvious" someone else thinks it is that I'm:"wrong." I honestly don't think that's an unreasonable ask.
Cha
(319,063 posts)Yes, anyone is welcome to their pessimism but don't Insult those who don't share their view by accusing them of Idolizing Jack Smith.
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, either.. and I usually Ignore those kinds of posts... but "idle"? Colme On!
FWIW... I don't have any "Idles".. Lots of Heros, though, Fighting on the Front Lines to Save our Democracy...
Who knows.. Jack Smith could be one of them? He sounds like he could be.
CentralMass
(16,971 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 22, 2022, 10:19 AM - Edit history (1)
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)think they are legal experts. I had no idea so many had gone to law school.
msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts)over a span of close to two decades.
We've all seen the same screenplay before...
Soon to be released on Netflix and/or Prime!! Check your listings, maybe even HULU..
oh but wait, it'll be on cable news eventually, like probably just before the 2024 elections...
who needs a law degree when we can watch it all on tv?
LuckyCharms
(22,645 posts)your second sentence.
It reads as an insult.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)The OP was called out on this and deleted that sentence
betsuni
(29,074 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 22, 2022, 07:24 AM - Edit history (1)
Who is this directed at?
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)We can't have that.
Being "Rah rah cheerleaders" was a popular insult for those of us who supported Democrats in 2016.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)The oral arguments for the DOJ appeal of Judge Loose Cannon's special master ruling. TFG's attorneys filed TFG's response on Monday of last week and the DOJ reply brief was due on Thursday. On Wednesday of last week, the 11th Circuit scheduled oral arguments for today, Nov. 22.
Jack Smith has read all of the pleadings and has approved the oral arguments.
Link to tweet
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)now appointed a special prosecutor. It is disappointing to see such OP's...ah well trash, trash, and trash.
Deminpenn
(17,504 posts)against John Edwards. Shows he's willing to prosecute politicians.
His most recent job investigating and prosecuting war crimes is a good indicator to me that Smith has, at the very least, an aggressive mindset.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,953 posts)Kingofalldems
(40,276 posts)Why the oversized pics?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)when an initial uber-enthusiasm (especially that developed within groups) isn't kept pumped up in succeeding days.
Lawrence Tribe played to it in calling Smith "faster than a speeding bullet."
We're told Smith's very good, but not Superman.
msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts)I feel like I spent and wasted every single day following every Russia Gate investigation story carried on MSNBC and posted here,during his entire term in office, impeachment hearings etc, waiting for the "Independent Counsel's" Mueller Report to lay it all outthere followed with prosecutions
Then the moment when the DOJ reporter on MSNBC (forgetting his last name, starts with a D) reported on one of the afternoon/evening shows that an unamed source familiar with the DOJ informed him, that the Justice Dep. isn't going to go with any charges etc. I didn't want to believe it then, I couldn't accept at the time tha could possibly be true.
Except it was true as we all are painfully aware.
I feel like we're re-playing the same tape. Re-experiencing the same movie, with different actors, playing the same characters.
Except for this time, I'm not falling for it.
Response to WarGamer (Original post)
bigtree This message was self-deleted by its author.
Dorian Gray
(13,850 posts)we shouldn't make idols out of any of these investigators. They are supposed to be finding the truth. That's a valiant thing, but they aren't our saviors and we don't need to elevate them to mythological status. That only hurts us and the rule of law.
bigtree
(94,261 posts)...they should delete this.
MarineCombatEngineer
(18,060 posts)Dorian Gray
(13,850 posts)Admittedly I haven't looked in every jack smith thread, but I've seen a lot of cautious optimism AND a lot of negative feedback about the appointment of the special counsel. Not fanaticism.
MarineCombatEngineer
(18,060 posts)Dorian Gray
(13,850 posts)bc I don't see the insult to people here.
I see an overall general comment about idolizing the SC. Nothing specific to DU.
MarineCombatEngineer
(18,060 posts)You don't see this sentence as an insult to members here?
Dorian Gray
(13,850 posts)but honestly, I've seen little "drooling" or "fanboying" here about him that I don't know WHY people feel defensive.
ancianita
(43,307 posts)Your interpretation of DU'ers here is duly noted, however.
BannonsLiver
(20,589 posts)But we have some posters who are in deep on Jack already and Im sure they will have plenty of company here soon if current trends hold. DU loves a hero, or even someone who has the appearance of one.
Ohio Joe
(21,898 posts)Or more commonly, a hit and run. It's when you drop something inflammatory and then stand back to watch the resulting chaos it causes.
Not cool.
Kingofalldems
(40,276 posts)WarGamer
(18,613 posts)I just want to clarify. It's 100% OK to support the guy and HOPE he indicts TFG and Justice is served.
Hell, I HOPE he takes down TFG in epic fashion.
But building him up to be superhuman (like was done with Mueller... will only lead to disappointment.)
Just look at the examples I've posted of Mueller and guess what, I'm already seeing similar stuff about Smith on social media.
How many people thought that Mueller was going to put TFG into an orange jumpsuit because they'd seen 100 memes on Twitter?
Kingofalldems
(40,276 posts)WarGamer
(18,613 posts)And to clarify...
I'm simply referring to the act of building Smith up into something he's not... like was done with Mueller. Do you know how many nationally syndicated cartoonists drew Mueller with a Superman costume?
It's unfair to everyone including Smith.
Let the man do his job and HOPE he is successful.
Ohio Joe
(21,898 posts)And not a one to those unhappy you called out DU'ers. I mean... You do realize names are attached to posts?
It is nice you edited out your insults from the OP though.
lark
(26,080 posts)Mueller was an actual Repug and just did what his fellow Repug boss told him to to the detriment of justice and this country's integrity. Jack Smith isn't a Repug and doesn't have a repug boss and the same bullshit will absolutely not happen.
Now, if Jack Smith is a secret fascist, he's hid it well and no one knows so hoping it's just not true and he will be all over tfg and secure a conviction.
Pathwalker
(6,603 posts)there is not a single man on earth worth idolizing. No one alive is perfect, and this thread is insulting - you clearly have a low opinion of some DUers.
elocs
(24,486 posts)Curb your enthusiasm because those who laugh and gloat last, laugh and gloat best.
Chakaconcarne
(2,787 posts)BTW, did you read the full Mueller report?
emulatorloo
(46,155 posts)Polybius
(21,900 posts)Who did he vote for in the last 4 presidential elections? That's all I care about.
emulatorloo
(46,155 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)Cha
(319,063 posts)of the Endless Speculative comparisons to Mueller.
Which is Obviously not even in the same league.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)This is light speed for the legal world. Heck, I was in one case for six years from filing of petition until settlement of the case
By legal standards, this is light speed
Link to tweet
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)Some people in the media, including social media... are turning Smith into a super hero. Just like they did with Mueller a few years ago.
It looks silly and frankly, childish.
Bottom line. Smith is a hard nosed professional. Let him do his job and may we all HOPE that he extracts JUSTICE out of the situation.
But let's leave the cape and super powers out of it, ok?
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)You seem to not understand the major difference between this special counsel and the Mueller special counsel. There are some major differences that will make the two special counsel proceedings entirely different. TFG could order the AG to fire Mueller any time. TFG used pardons to interfere with the investigation. Barr actively curtailed the Mueller investigation in a number of respects.
Link to tweet
Again, I strongly disagree with the premise of this thread. Special Counsel Jack Smith is already moving very fast on a host of issues including the Mar-a-Lago document case and the Jan. 6 investigation. By the standards of the legal world, this special counsel is going to very different from the Mueller investigation
I am also hoping that this investigation is successful.
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)I'll make it real short.
Don't turn a PERSON into a super hero.
It looks silly and leads to disappointed people.
He's a MAN. Hope he's the MAN to take down TFG.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)This thread attempted to insult posters who were encouraged by the appointment of Special Counsel Jack Smith by making a silly and uninformed comparison to the Mueller investigation. Your attempts at humor failed because the two special counsel investigations/efforts are very different. Ignoring the major differences between the appointment of Special Counsel Jack Smith and the Mueller investigation hurt your attempt at humor.
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)That insult was really sad
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)I deleted them for the sake of our more sensitive members. Never my intention to ruffle feathers.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)Your attempt at humor failed. In the real world, there are so many differences between the Mueller matter and this special counsel that this thread and your attempts at humor are sad. Here is a decent explanation of the differences that is designed for laypersons
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Again your attempt at humor failed
Response to LetMyPeopleVote (Reply #133)
WarGamer This message was self-deleted by its author.
Catherine Vincent
(34,610 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)Last edited Fri Nov 25, 2022, 12:53 AM - Edit history (1)
Getting rid of the Special Master case will be a big help in advancing the case against TFG. Special Counsel Jack Smith is working hard
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)This OP was always and ONLY about superhero/meme status being applied to Mueller and my observations that some on social media were starting to apply the same sorts of memes, cartoons and "hype" re: Smith.
I'm not even talking about Mueller OR Smith...
I'm talking about the "hero worship" being generated online in social media like Twitter.
It's childish and gives people (possibly) false hope.




