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Wed Nov 23, 2022, 10:39 AM

This is not Freedom.

70 replies, 7805 views

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Arrow 70 replies Author Time Post
Reply This is not Freedom. (Original post)
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 OP
niyad Nov 23 #1
Diamond_Dog Nov 23 #2
ck4829 Nov 23 #3
peppertree Nov 23 #20
Kaleva Nov 23 #4
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #6
GenXer47 Nov 23 #32
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #61
EX500rider Nov 24 #69
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #5
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #13
Beakybird Nov 23 #7
DENVERPOPS Nov 23 #25
GenXer47 Nov 23 #33
DENVERPOPS Nov 23 #47
Wounded Bear Nov 23 #8
Wild blueberry Nov 23 #9
KS Toronado Nov 23 #10
Wild blueberry Nov 23 #11
70sEraVet Nov 23 #12
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #14
Marthe48 Nov 23 #15
wnylib Nov 23 #41
Archae Nov 23 #16
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #17
MicaelS Nov 23 #22
radicalleft Nov 23 #18
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #23
hunter Nov 23 #27
GenXer47 Nov 23 #36
wnylib Nov 23 #42
The Bopper Nov 23 #65
Martin Eden Nov 23 #19
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #21
calimary Nov 23 #24
Martin Eden Nov 23 #34
calimary Nov 23 #40
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #26
dlk Nov 23 #28
calimary Nov 23 #43
dlk Nov 23 #59
republianmushroom Nov 23 #29
Bayard Nov 23 #30
Mr. Ected Nov 23 #31
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #35
jackcrow2001 Nov 23 #37
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #38
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #39
Kaleva Nov 23 #45
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #48
Kaleva Nov 23 #49
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #50
Kaleva Nov 23 #51
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #53
Kaleva Nov 23 #55
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #56
Chakaconcarne Nov 23 #60
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #62
EX500rider Nov 24 #70
jackcrow2001 Nov 23 #57
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #58
soldierant Nov 23 #64
Oldtimeralso Nov 23 #44
panader0 Nov 23 #46
moondust Nov 23 #52
Tom Yossarian Joad Nov 23 #54
onecaliberal Nov 23 #63
Timeflyer Nov 24 #66
randr Nov 24 #67
sellitman Nov 24 #68

Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 10:39 AM

1. KNR

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 10:41 AM

2. A Big Kick

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 10:42 AM

3. Too many Americans have really strange and distorted ideas on what "freedom" is

Freedom is not living under the gun, freedom is not needing a car to go... anywhere, freedom is not going bankrupt from medical bills... but so many seem to think just that.

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 11:46 AM

20. Freedumb

Fries, optional.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 10:44 AM

4. We have DUers who have guns or are thinking of getting one

Saw one post where the member said he has a loaded gun but has never fired it.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=17396065

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 10:50 AM

6. This DUer decided 50 years ago not to carry. Ever.

An old hippy growing up in Alabama and Georgia who survived many beatings and confrontations with guns has somehow managed to stay alive past my expiration date.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 12:58 PM

32. Bravo!

Hats off to you my friend. I got close several times in the past 6 years but my wife talked me out of it, thankfully.

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Response to GenXer47 (Reply #32)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 04:51 PM

61. I can relate.

Not my wife but maybe my Southern heritage mixed with the constant media bombardment of evildoers being stopped with good guys with a gun.

Guns are being ingrained into the American psyche daily if one partakes of today's media

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 24, 2022, 10:24 AM

69. In my opinion that is never a good argument in favor of anything

I can say the same about smoke detectors, fire extinguishers and seat belts "I've never needed one so far!" YMMV

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 10:46 AM

5. I have been screaming about this since Columbine

I got kicked for too many postings about this and gun control. The 2nd A faction were more present back then.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 11:12 AM

13. In retrospect I was essentially spamming the board about it and understand the tombstone.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 10:51 AM

7. For MAGA brutality and freedom are synonyms.

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Response to Beakybird (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 12:17 PM

25. Quite literally

they want to return to the days of the "Wild West"........(of course, along with the Robber Barrons of the early 1900's)

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Response to DENVERPOPS (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 01:00 PM

33. it wasn't even this bad

in the "Wild West". Sheriffs would make people check their firearms while staying in town. Try that now.

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Response to GenXer47 (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 02:33 PM

47. You can be sure

that there were a lot of dead sheriffs, and no one would step forward to take his job......so the towns were totally Lawless.......

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 10:51 AM

8. K & R...nt

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 10:53 AM

9. Highly recommend

Thank you

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Response to Wild blueberry (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 11:01 AM

10. You just hit 5,000 posts

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Response to KS Toronado (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 11:05 AM

11. Thank you!

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 11:08 AM

12. The rest of the world sees us as the only country on earth that values guns more than

we value our own children.
(And congrats on 5,000 posts)

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Response to 70sEraVet (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 11:13 AM

14. +1000

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 11:27 AM

15. this is a free army at the beck and call of the rw

The rw loosened gun restrictions and have created an army they don't have to pay to arm, pay to feed, pay to house or pay if their soldiers get hurt.

Absolutely free rw army strolling around terrorizing the rest of American citizens.

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Response to Marthe48 (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 01:25 PM

41. Yup. A free Army just waiting to be called up for

insurrection and various acts of terrorism.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 11:29 AM

16. Every time there is a mass shooting.

We see "gun control" posts.

Except I have YET to see an actual post saying how would gun control NOW, be enforced?

It's already a jailable offense (most of the time,) for felons to own a gun.

And who would enforce a gun control law, and how?

There are millions of guns out there, most of them pistols.

But do we end up with a federal police force going house to house ransacking homes and businesses looking for the "wrong guns?"

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Response to Archae (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 11:31 AM

17. You wouldn't like the answer.

Starters, just borrow from GB or Australia....

Fuck the second amendment. Muzzle loaders, flintlocks and all that.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 11:54 AM

22. And the Press is one operated by hand.

See how easy that is?

Playing Devil's Advocate, BTW.

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Response to Archae (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 11:33 AM

18. Anf you won't see one because there isn't one

that stands a snowballs chance in hell of working...short of confiscating all weapons...and good luck with that.

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Response to radicalleft (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 12:01 PM

23. The morons at the NRA have successfully indoctrinated a lot of people into believing that.

The limits are being pushed and America will decide that their children's lives matter more than their right to own semi automatic weapons.

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Response to Archae (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 12:27 PM

27. Social pressure. Like smoking or drunk driving.

The laws will follow. What was once accepted no longer is.

Do I openly mock U.S.A. gun culture? Why yes, I do. You'd think I'd know better since I've been threatened with guns and slashed with knives for saying impolite things to armed people (and have the PTSD to show for it), I've seen the police shoot people that didn't need shooting, and I've known people who killed themselves with guns. But honestly all that shit just makes me angrier, not afraid.

Gun fetishes are disgusting.

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Response to hunter (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 01:03 PM

36. I threw my brother out of my house

for suggesting that "everyone needs a pistol". My kid has already suffered two real school lockdowns for careless students bringing loaded pistols in the school. It traumatized her and continues to cause daily anxiety for our whole family. So yeah, fuck guns and fuck gun culture.

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Response to GenXer47 (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 01:37 PM

42. I spent 3 hours in a car in the middle of nowhere

with an estranged husband who had a handgun. I stayed calm, acted like it was normal, and "talked" with him, which was really just him rambling on about how we should get back together. He had stopped by my office at noon and demanded that we have lunch to talk things over. To avoid a scene at work, I agreed, naively thinking that a restaurant would be safe. It might have been, but he drove into the countryside instead.

I knew that he feared paying consequences for any of his actions, so at 3:00 pm, I said that he should take me back to work because my boss and coworkers would call the police if he didn't. He agreed, took me back, and insisted that we had to meet again to finish the "conversation." I was not naive enough to do it again.

A close relative of mine took her own life with a gun when she could no longer cope with the flashbacks of a rape.

I am not fond of guns.

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Response to Archae (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 09:27 PM

65. Good start

As someone who retired from law enforcement, the exact time all this crap started is when the Republicans refused to keep the assault rifle ban. Before those days we never needed to wear bullet resistant vests and felt secure carrying a 6 bullet “wheel gun” with only 2 speedloaders” and a shotgun in the car. After the ban was dropped, we easily became out gunned and you see the results today where local cops now carry fully automatic weapons, ballistic shields and vests and armored vehicles. By the way, because of the worries about the AR and AK weapons being available at your corner Walmart or gun store, on edge cops now shoot quicker than they ever would before. You can literally trace today’s problems to that point and time.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 11:36 AM

19. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness

Those rights are apparently suprceded by unfettered access to military assault rifles which didn't exist when our Constitution was written.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 11:46 AM

21. +1000

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 12:09 PM

24. No kidding.

Those hand-held massacre machines or anything remotely like them, are listed NOWHERE in our Constitution. Hell, they very likely weren’t even dreamed of, back then.

And any claims made to “the right to bear arms” did NOT, in ANY way, include the damn tough-guy toys that plague us now.

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Response to calimary (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 01:01 PM

34. The "right to bear arms" was predicated on the necessity

Of a "well regulated militia."

2A as written is an anachronism.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #34)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 01:22 PM

40. Yep. Well aware of that.

Whenever I hear some gun nut yowling about their “right to bear arms”, which most often goes hand-in-hand with their insistence on amassing a fucking arsenal of their very own and a hatred of government and regulations, I always want to question what they understand about the “well-regulated militia” part that goes with it.

Isn’t that, too, a part of the goddamned 2nd amendment they all worship and constantly strive to shove down the throats of the rest of us?

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 12:21 PM

26. Ten years ago even after Columbine this opinion was not that popular.

But after so many tragedies happening so fucking often it seems that things may be changing.

It's a goddamned fucking shame the price it has taken to change those opinions.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 12:36 PM

28. It is tyranny

Fueled by selfishness.

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Response to dlk (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 01:58 PM

43. BINGO!

Correction. Tyranny and selfishness actually make it DOUBLE BINGO!

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Response to calimary (Reply #43)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 04:47 PM

59. Tyranny disguised as freedom...

Will we ever reach a tipping point?

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 12:42 PM

29. Nailed it

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 12:43 PM

30. K&R

Rethuglicans are more than happy to let the bodies continue to pile up. Blood thirsty MTG is their spokesperson.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 12:46 PM

31. The Second Amendment is the noose that will end up hanging the USA

We're in too deep and too many people - liberal and conservative - have a love affair with guns.

Live by the gun, die by the gun.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 01:03 PM

35. Sad but maybe true.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 01:09 PM

37. I have never advocated taking away guns.....

I so wish that there could be a common sense discussion about gun ownership,
You have to prove a basic competency to drive a car, carry insurance and obey safety rules.
Just like there are people who should not be permitted to drive a car for the safety of others, some people just do not have the right mind set or self control to be armed with lethal weapons in public.

To be a Naval Aircrewman I had to take written and practical tests every single year to maintain my qualifications, I had no problem proving that I was competent at my job annually, its only fair to the other crewmember's and any passengers on board. My state government voted to do away with any requirements at all to conceal carry (yup republicans) I hear constantly about any step taken to try to make any common sense gun regulation is just too onerous that the government can't be trusted to know who has what guns.....the same people don't seem to see the same problem with how much harder it is to get a driver's license these days or increasing hurdles to be able to vote, nope just screaming fits at even the hint of a minor delay or inconvenience in obtaining something designed only for taking life. I own three firearms. I carry a side arm when I'm working (I wish there was no need and I pray I never need it) I carry while working in public and there is no longer any requirement to demonstrate competence or stability. I don't want my rights infringed on, I don't want too much government interference in my life. But if I were to demonstrate that I was mentally or emotionally unstable.....I would wish that someone or something some system to prevent me from being a danger to others. I know many many people that I think should not possess weapons.

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Response to jackcrow2001 (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 01:15 PM

38. Wondering if you ever thought about not needing to carry if others were not able to carry.

Would you carry a knife if that's all others could carry? A bat? A big rock?

Or have you been conditioned to think that there are people out to end you?

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 01:16 PM

39. Oh, and it's always a treat to see the new posters here at DU that have such an opinion.

Welcome to DU

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 02:14 PM

45. Should women not carry to protect themselves from larger males?

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #45)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 03:22 PM

48. And bears, lions and rabid dogs as well!

And for god's sake don't forget the possibility of an uprising by one of the many ethnic groups that have been marginalized by the America of today.

And don't underestimate smaller males as they can be as crafty and vicious as any other male. I guess we should probably fear and arm ourselves against all and everything.

According to statistics it seems that guns are more often used to protect us from ourselves, spouses, family and friends with deadly efficacy.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Reply #48)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 03:28 PM

49. You avoided answering my question

How about me? I'm a 64 year old male, disabled , and you want me to take on a young male unarmed?

Do you or do you not want to prohibit women who feel threatened by males to have the option of carrying a gun?

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #49)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 03:37 PM

50. LOL, I'm a 71 year old male disabled and can't walk across the room without losing my breath

and don't spend my time worrying about some young whippersnapper breaking into my house to steal my new air fryer. If I had a gun he'd probably take it from me and then beat me with it.

What in the world is it with you about gangs of large males running around needing to be put down?

Guns are not the answer to our ills my friend.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Reply #50)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 03:42 PM

51. So , you think women should be prohibited from having guns?

I can only infer that is your position because you refuse to answer the question directly.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #51)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 03:47 PM

53. You seem to have missed a lot in the discussions above attributing things to sexual assignment.

So I'll just wish you a good day and a better tomorrow hoping you can share time and love with others on Thanksgiving Day.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Reply #53)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 03:53 PM

55. You don't want to be called out for misogyny

Last edited Wed Nov 23, 2022, 04:29 PM - Edit history (1)

That you, a male, know what's best for women .

I think it's up to each individual woman to decide.

Edit: it's my opinion that anyone thinking of getting a gun , consider it long and hard and if they get a gun, get the required training and practice.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #55)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 04:06 PM

56. Okay...

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Reply #50)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 04:51 PM

60. So being disabled and unable to walk across the room without losing your breath....

Can one assume you do not have the same public interactions/exposures/fears as those who do and feel the need for some kind of protection? Do you take inner city public transport to work every day? Have you been a victim of violence, rape, trauma?

I'm going to feel entirely different walking around Beverly hills at night than I would, say, St Louis or Detroit and certainly won't rack on anyone if they do and feel the need to carry...if they are trained and do so responsibly.

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Response to Chakaconcarne (Reply #60)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 04:58 PM

62. Guessing a lot has to do with the neighborhoods one enjoys frequenting.

It's a shame there are "bad neighborhoods" but after searching out many of your earlier posts I doubt that any argument I could offer persuade you into any different opinion.

Hoping you have a nice Thanksgiving.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Reply #50)

Thu Nov 24, 2022, 10:28 AM

70. "What in the world is it with you about gangs of large males running around needing to be put down?"

There are over 1.65 Million home invasions per year which accounts for about 66% of all 2.5 Million burglaries that happen every year according to the FBI.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 04:13 PM

57. I would love to never carry a firearm again in my life

My conditioning is that I'm a repair technician on gambling terminals, we don't carry any cash but because we have access to cash boxes when working we are at a small risk of being attacked especially during night calls....I personally would not miss the second amendment in any way shape or form, Every time some idiot ( including one of my sons ) goes on about defending against the tyranny of the government with his AR-15 I can only think about the .5 seconds it would take for bubba and his AR-15 to become a grease spot on the ground during that imaginary battle with the evil gubmit forces.......I have absolutely no hope at all that this country will abolish guns, I just hope and pray for any progress in establishing some responsibility and safeguards

Later Days

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Response to jackcrow2001 (Reply #57)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 04:23 PM

58. Virtual hugs to you.

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Response to jackcrow2001 (Reply #57)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 06:59 PM

64. I can identify

with not being thrilled about a job requirement. While in the Marine Corps, I had to carry in order to transport cash, which was part of my job as a Disbursing Officer. I hated it. I wasn't even really trsined to use it and essentially had to fall back on the terror a man would experience upon seeing a woman with a gun.

I've never touched one since, and don't want to.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 02:01 PM

44. I want to invoke my 2nd amendment rights,

To posses and carry thermonuclear weapons!
Do I need to label this SARCASM!!!

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 02:26 PM

46. Never had a gun---never will.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 03:43 PM

52. At least 607 mass shootings so far this year.

As reported by CNN.com. Likely to be the second-highest year for them.

Wikipedia has the total at 662 through the end of October.

How many politicians own shares in gun manufacturers and/or accept large piles of dark money from the gun lobby? Need their names. IMO the makers of deadly weapons should not be listed on any stock market as doing so provides an incentive for their never-ending proliferation. Also IMO Citizens United should be reversed to eliminate the mountains of dark money in politics. Money is not speech; money is property.

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Response to moondust (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 03:49 PM

54. +1000

It's sad. Terribly sad.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Wed Nov 23, 2022, 06:37 PM

63. Recommend x 100000000

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2022, 09:26 AM

66. Absolutely agree--this ain't freedom, it's insanity.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2022, 10:09 AM

67. I will trade my Second amendment rights any day to protect

My rights to life, liberty, and my pursuit of happiness.

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Response to Tom Yossarian Joad (Original post)

Thu Nov 24, 2022, 10:22 AM

68. Stop Right Wing punditry posing as news

And we will have a chance to stop the gun madness that as taken over our country.

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